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Old 03-08-2003, 02:57 AM
  #1  
Israeli Guy
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Default Vtol

Hey

for a long time I've been searching for plans for a vtol machine
like a flying saucer in shape.
something like an helicopter only it's rotors are protected.

I'd also rather to use an electrical motors(s) as it's meant for indoor use.

take a look at the attached sketch

so anwyay, if anyone can help me, point me somewhere or send me some blueprints or designs I'll be greatful
and might be able to make a childhood dream come true
thanks !
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Old 03-08-2003, 03:32 AM
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how about a dragan fly? not enclosed, but fairly flying saucer looking

http://www.helihobby.com/html/dragan...elicopter.html
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Old 03-08-2003, 01:24 PM
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Default thanks but...

thanks rkmaker but I'm still not ready to settle for less than a flying saucer

I've seen the dragonfly before, it is a nice machine but you can't put any payload on it and I rather have the rotors enclosed, maybe something like ducted fans.
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Old 03-08-2003, 03:20 PM
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As far as I know there are only 2 types of VTOL, the cheap small electric toy to play in the living room and hig perdformances jet powered prototypes, nothing in the middle range.
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Old 03-08-2003, 03:23 PM
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or alternativly go ahead and build one similar to me VTOL, mine can transition but its not electric motors and they arnt enclosed
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Old 03-08-2003, 04:31 PM
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if that's how it goes then I don't really mind if it's electric or fuel powered... just show me something !

the enclosed rotors I'm not going to give up that easily...
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Old 03-08-2003, 06:11 PM
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if you want lift check out Draganfly X pro
http://www.rctoys.com/draganflyerxpr...db7fa36aa01f25
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Old 03-08-2003, 06:47 PM
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or a more serious one here


http://www.corpcomp.com/weeks1/Rig/Rig.html
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Old 03-08-2003, 06:53 PM
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Israeli Guy
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Default this is what I've been looking for

this is what I've been looking for
there are some models which caught my eyesight
if you go in http://www.laesieworks.com/ifo/lib/index01.html

check out the SPAWAR and the AROD
now I'm looking for plans for these kind of aircrafts
anyone have any idea where I can find one ???
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Old 03-08-2003, 07:06 PM
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the RC technology is good enough to provide enough thrust and enough electronic stabilisation for those kind of flying machines, but not since a very long time.
be patient........
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Old 03-08-2003, 07:24 PM
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if it is already good enough why should I "be patient" ??
besides, take a look and the AROD and the SPAWAR, these two are from the eighties... so I guess if tech has been good enough ten-fifteen years ago, it should be excellent by now.

am I wrong ?
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Old 03-08-2003, 07:50 PM
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I edited because I didn't look the full site

yes they are flying disks, but those thinks are very limited in horizontal performances
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Old 03-08-2003, 07:59 PM
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the biggest problem to make a VTOL AIRCRAFT is the transition from vertical to horizontal flight, and also the stabilisation in zero speed flight.
A flying disk is totaly diferent, much more simple

I remember 20 years ago there was a kit of a large foam disk powered by a .60 size engine, this think was able to take of verticaly and with a good pilot in comand make stationary flight.

but those thinks are not airplanes
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Old 03-08-2003, 08:05 PM
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dude, I don't want no airplane
this is exactly what I want
a disk shaped vtol
when I said aircraft I meant something that can fly, english is not my native tongue...

so if you have designs or whatever for this kind of flying saucers that will be brilliant !

thanks
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Old 03-08-2003, 08:10 PM
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I don't have any idea were you can find plans for large flying disks, but you don't really need them, build a circular large light structure put a engine in the middle, be sure that your engine produce more thrust than the weight of your machine, put some mobile surfaces under the blast of the engine in order to deflect the thrust to control the think and good luck !
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Old 03-08-2003, 08:21 PM
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you are right my friend
but I need some info about engines and stuff
so I know how to design the rest
and another question
is it better to use flaps (to deflect the thrust) in the intake or the outtake ?
maybe I should use gyros or something ?

can I use an electric engine for the saucer or fuel is much better ?

do you have icq or something ? (SALMONBUG)
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Old 03-08-2003, 08:27 PM
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your biggest problem will be to avoid that your think turn around the engine......

the best position for the deflectors are behind the engine

I have msn messenger
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Old 03-08-2003, 08:47 PM
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dude, add me to you messanger (email: yossimotro@hotmail.com)
we need to talk about it (SALMONBUG)
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Old 03-08-2003, 09:15 PM
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A while ago I downloaded plans from the internet, it's not exactly a flying saucer even better, it is the uss entreprise from star trek.
Unfortunately I've lost those plans and the URL, they are out there somewhere and they are for free.
So I can find them by accident, everyone searching for them could find them easily
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Old 03-09-2003, 10:47 AM
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as salmonbug said its a good idea to use control surfaces to deflect the propwash from the engines. Alternatively you could buy a helicopter rotor setup but its a pointless waste of energy if the rotors are to be enclosed. I think your best bet is possible 1 very powerful engine or 2 smaller engines, powering 2 contra rotating props. Try and get 3 bladed props if possible, they'll pruduce more thrust in a smaller area and generally i find are more stable. My vtol has control surfaces 2 inch wide and as long as the prop, yours will probaly not need not this much movement as mine is a big bulky machine which requires a lot of movement force.
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Old 03-09-2003, 09:31 PM
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I'm in the processs of building a saucer like on your right hand drawing, I'm using four OS.25 FPs in a 3" thick 42" diameter foam disk. I'm looking at 7-7.5lbs with fuel. I have the programing in my radio for both a "X" and "+" motor configuration and will probably try it in "+" first. The "+" configuration was much easier to program. I have seperate throttle on each enginr for fore/aft and left/right control as well as lift and sink(collective). I have vanes in each engine area for twist or for a helo what would be rudder control. I won't have it done for at least a month so it'll be a while before I can say if it'll fly or not....
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Old 03-09-2003, 09:40 PM
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Hey Mr. Evan !

I think we've got what to talk about...
do you have any photos or sketches ?
what do you think about using electro-powered motors ?
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Old 03-09-2003, 11:47 PM
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hey evan, jus wonderin about the 4 .25's you've got, for a 7.5lb by sounds of it your gonna have a hell of a lot of reserve thrust.
Your probaly aware of this and everything.

I have a thrust calculator if you havent already got calculations for thrust ect then i can do them for you if you want

I will need to know what size props your goin to be running, and the recommended prop size for the engine OR the RPM your props should be running at.

Obviously i dont know much about your yet but my VTOL is powered by 2 .38's and provides a combined thrust of almost 12lb and the model is 6lb AUW. Mine is quite well overpowered, i probaly could have been ok if i had 2 size .30's
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Old 03-09-2003, 11:50 PM
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does glow engines have a throttle response fast enough to keep those things level?
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Old 03-10-2003, 12:04 AM
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not really sure about that part, i have pitch and yaw controlled by control vanes and bank is controlled by varying 2 engine speeds. This will be linked to a gyro to stabalise on it. Personally i would have thought varying 4 engine speeds would make it very unstable but i guess if you hook up all 3 axis to gyros it should be ok.

I think best thing would to have a control vane array but instead of using propwash and varying pressure ect. The control surfaces could be used to cover the propwsh outlets. i.e- blocking off front 2 outlets would cause decreased airflow therefore causing forward pitch. One of the hardest parts will be finding contra-rotating props and gearboxes for the engines. On mine i use the control vanes to cancel out torque reaction, my engines rotate same direction. Im counting on neutralising reaction torque by doing this.
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