SaviCatses

I've been reading this website for something like 3 months, but 1 minute ago is when I became a member.

A couple of times I came close to registering to post a reply to a thread, an oppinion I'd like to share, but each time I just kept reading instead.

So what does this website really mean for me? Reading other's oppinions, reading replies to other people's beginner question, and once in a while reading one of those articles (MinnFlyer's how to cover and how to hinge)

I don't buy, I don't sell, I don't post pictures.

Therefore, for me, paying 12$ to read all those IMHOs people write, is silly. But increase dramtically the number of those 'professional' articles on the main page to increse reviews (please, not just of ARFs and park flyers!), how to articles, etc etc, and that 12-24$ a year starts sounding better.

Oh, and don't forget, that 12-24$ becomes nearly 20-40$ to Canadians! That's more than all the hardware for my Aero-Star kit I bought!

mvigod

raymcm - this is why I post this all here..I need to hear opinions, options and ideas about this....I got a lot of smart guys here and am always willing to listen.

hookedonrc

Marc,
The issue here was posted as a poll and a place to be able to view others opinions. As I stated it is a dilemma for you and us, and we all understand the problems that you face. The poll continues to show the advertising option at a 2 to 1 rate. It may not be the result that you wanted, but it is what people are feeling. I think that's what you wanted wasn't it? We are very sympathetic, at least it appears that way. If it is coming to a point that your time and expenses exceed the ability to support this site, we can all understand it. However, if you need advertising, then go for it. There isn't anywhere that unbiased opinions exist. Just read the threads, we all bring our own biased opinions to this forum. I do think that it is needed to stress to the advertisers that this is a "free speech" site, good or bad, and they must tolerate it. And lastly, better enterprises than this have failed because someone believed that no one could do it better than they could.

mvigod

hookedonrc - we still need more opinons to weigh in to get a real picture on this...it is still early in the game to know what everyone is thinking.

I have some hybrid ideas where the forum could be free to post and view and it would have ads. However to view a full size picture, have an avatar, have member gallery space for your own photos or post classifieds you would have to pay a $9.95 to $15 annual fee. This way anybody could exchange info but those who want the little "extras" plus the ability to post classifieds would pay just a bit more. If a user wanted to post a classified on a "one off" basis they could do it for $2 per listing or something like that on a per item basis. Ads would run for 30 days.

This way is a sort of hybrid model between advertising and giving a few extra value added features to those who want or need them.

hookedonrc

A hybrid may be your best answer, and yes it is early in the polling. As far as the site, it is the information I am looking for, being new, I am trying to soak up as much informatioin that I can on building tips, beginner questions, and general R/C Airplane information. I read the AMA magazine, MAN, and am in a club where I can benefit from others experiences. That is what I really need right now.

mvigod

Remember fellas...RCU is a little over a year old and like most internet ventures some creativity is needed so an ever increasing value proposition is afforded to everyone involved. That means each of the member or guests here, me, our hosting provider, our advertisers, moderators, sales reps, marketing guys and so on. The whole circle can be completed in a way that it works well for everyone and this thread is a sounding board to help everyone get what they want and/or need.

The other proposal was $1,000.00 per year for each member which would include full access to RCU, full free access to a new auction site here which would be developed using part of the $1,000 per member fee, free AMA insurance for a year, an RCU sticker and t-shirt and a personal thank you letter from me. Of course I'm just kidding but figured up until you got to this point in this paragraph you were starting to think I finally snapped

Goinstraightup

My Feedback: (26)

Marc,

The fact that RCU is the greatest site ever is further confirmed by the fact that you asked us what we thought . You could have ran this site like big biz and just made the tough financial decisions with only your best interests in mind. But you didn't choose that route, you have OUR best interests in mind. This family type atmosphere is the best thing about RCU. Even when someone here tells me my favorite brand of engines stink, I can usually shrug it off because we all feel like family. Thanks again for asking us for our opinion.

I personally like the advertising on RCU. I would not mind more of it, if it was presented in the same way it is now.

Hey SaviCatses,

Welcome to RCU! Also, you made a great purchase with the Aerostar. It is one of my favorite instruction planes. Our club was using 4 of these for instruction planes at one point. Send me a PM if you have any questions.

NitroWoman

Is $10 or $20 a year for an excellent site too much? No. Will I spend $10 or $20 a year for it? No. Why? Everybody on this Earth is trying to get their paws into my purse. Some force their paws in, and some ask "Pretty Please" to get in. My state legislature just added $3/month tax to my Sat. Dish bill. Good-bye Dish. My state governor is the leader of the movement to collect state sales tax on the internet. My shopping on the net will cease. I can't work and earn an honest dollar without someone taking almost half of it before I even see it. That I can't control no matter who I vote for. It just goes on and on and on. Some thing's I can control and will. I read RCU everyday and really enjoy it. I'd miss it. I think you should charge for the sales section ie, Ebay style. Keep the ads, I look at those also. If I can save $2/month on say..100 things (and I do try), I've saved $200. That is almost my entire monthly hobby allowance. You see, it's not you, it's all things combined. Good Luck. I don't want to lose one of the highlights of my day.

js3

My Feedback: (3)

Marc,

I think you need to include a third option in your poll--the hybrid option where the forums would be free and the mag and classifieds would be available for a fee. If the hybrid option were available on the poll, this would be the one that I would choose. For now, I'm abstaining.

If I am forced to choose between the two options above, I would choose to have the entire site supported by the advertisers and free to its users.

I like the ads as they are now and wouldn't mind having a few more now and then. I too get new info by looking at the ads. But please, whatever you do, STAY AWAY FROM POP UP/POP UNDER WINDOWS!

BTW, I assume the fee structure would be waived for your moderators. If that is the case, I would consider becoming a moderator once more

Barland

I belong to one site which offers a "banner free" option if you choose to subscribe to it... I believe the cost is less than $10.00 for the year. On that site I choose this option only because it loads faster and I may look at it multiple times a day. It's a weather site, Weather Underground, and I use it to check wind and weather conditions before decieding to head to the field.
Just a Thought

mvigod

I also use weather underground and to get away from their popups it's worth it...we might make the paid member version have an option to view or not view ads.

mr_matt

My Feedback: (10)

Hi Marc,


You are obviously going through some uncharted waters here. Clearly all of the "free" portals are starting to set up fee based services. THey have to, and certainly you will have to as well.

I would think the best model is hybrid. For instance, the membership option allows viewing and posting of pictures, or something to that effect. You have to have something that stimulates the high number of subscribers, at the same time offering the value proposition for an upgrade on a no pressure basis.

I have seen this before. The overall value is not the issue to many, it is the perception that it should be free. People do not like to pay for things that they think should be free. I used to work for a company that generated weather information. We tried to work on a model to sell it. People thought it should be free, like the weather reports on the radio. Even though our data was about 3 orders of magnitude better, we could not get beyond that attitude..


Also my gut feel is the take rate on subscriptions will be very low. I would say one in 3 maybe on the best side.

In the end you must do what is right for you, spin it the best way you can and go forward. IMHO you have demonstrated some pretty good decision making on this site, I think if anyone can suceed it will be you, so just do what you need to do.


Good luck

branded

My Feedback: (9)

RCADMIN:

How many active members do you have, as I'm sure that your numbers reflect the fact that members can sign up, and have been doing so for a couple years, but cannot "unregister", or probably don't wish to even though they're inactive?...

Wouldn't your argument be better served by expressing your traffic in terms of hits/day rather than total membership, which reflects those that are active, as well as those that are not?

How many active members are there? Do you know?

If you don't, perhaps a partial solution to your dilemma may be to remove those members that do not post for a couple of months or so. This would free up some space and bring your membership numbers into the realm of reality.

JMO.....

shill

My Feedback: (22)

I would pay 12.00 a year or even a little more and I would pay in full using paypal. what is 12 or even 20 dollars a year I have cancelled most of my magazines. They cost more than 12 or even 20 dollars a year and you can not say anything you want in them or respond to something they have in the magazine in a timely manner that has not been a couple of months in a back issue and most people have forgotten. Here you can add to a discussion right then or as some people do troll and cause problems, but if you had to pay I think some of them would leave making this an even better site. Quite whinning that is cheap for what Marc is talking about offering and hey look what a gallon of fuel cost even if you are using gas. the price he suggest versus how much time people spend here and using a gallon of glow or a couple of gallons of gas and oil. makes the price seem cheap. for all that RCU has to offer. I have sent 15 to 20 dollar for items sold. So I do not mind the ideas you have Marc. PS come on people grow up its a cheap price as some of you say you will not pay abc and such for news items and things well I do not either but then I find RCU much more interesting.

Steve

gachezem

My Feedback: (20)

Marc;

I think you should be supported, and from what I've seen here if you can put a penny or two in your pocket you deserve it, I would like to see you get $15.00 a yr. for membership, plus keep the ad's, anybody that think's they can't save $15.00 a yr from tip's and idea's need to go someplace else, the mag's cant compete with RCU when it comes to info. look at the # of forums here, there is more info on RCU than you could ever hope to find in the mag's, plus it is much easier to search for, beat's going thru a pile of mag's for some info. some member's may drop out, but the majority will be back.

Keep up the good work.

JNorton

My Feedback: (2)

Steve,
I'm with NitroWomen. It's not totally the cost --- it is that every mother's son is in my pockets. I've never bought or sold anything on RCU. My budget for this hobby is limited. I'm the only bread winner in my family, and I'm wondering whether or not I'll have a job in three months.

I like the banner free option. I do not subscribe to any of the hobby mags either. I might be in the minority but not everyone in this hobby is rich. My total yearly expenditures are around $1000.00, and I'll be ***** if I'll spend money to view something on the Internet.

John

mvigod

gary - thanks
shill - thanks also

branded - non active members don't need to be pruned as that serves almost no purpose. While some use RCU very often others use it less often. I even get guys who signed up in the beginning (which btw was only December of 2001 - you wrote above "a couple years" but we aren't around that long - this makes our base mostly fresh and active) and might not have come by in months but then come back and love it here. How do I know? After 9 months they forget their password and ask me to get another one for them

What I will do is constantly raise the value of services offered here and at some point those who feel it might not be worth it will change their mind. After all anyone can change their mind based on new information, right?

phuffstatler

My Feedback: (20)

Hi Marc... I'll pay the reasonable fee, since I am a heavy(?) user... However, I think that you should include a limited form of free access to those who aren't sure if they want to pay a fee, or who just want to browse, not post...


My two cents...


I should would like to get paid for what I do, too. I think your administration and development of this site has been top notch! Keep up the fine work.

phil in austin

visioneer_one

My Feedback: (506)

Hybrid model. Best of both worlds - those that get a lot out of the site *should* pay for it; casual/infrequent users will have the option to pay for full access if they feel that its worth it.

The former RCO tried the strict advertiser-based model. Look how long that lasted before it circled the bowl. Hell - RCU was born out of the morass that RCO turned into!

dunk-RCU

Marc and all...
As an old man, and old R/C'r I would support your basic fee structure... please keep the ads but Don't for any reason go to pop-ups...

I am real new here due to returning to our hobby again... started in 57/58 and been back and forth over the years... while in the AF. You have a beautiful broad site covering all subjects. What the ones that say they wouldn't pay don't realize that bandwidth cost buck$ to operate...

DelphiForums started out as a total free example, they still have the free features however their boards are not as near refined by subject as here. We operate in a hobby that is NOT cheap, if we wanted cheap we would be control line flyer's..

Keep up the good work..... also one thing that has caused problems for other pay sites, have a mailing address for money orders for those younger and older that don't have or use credit cards...

Dunk
AMA 39683
CFI A&I AMEL

Cactus.

My Feedback: (1)

Hybrid is close, tho i think Avatars are very handy for finding the right person in a thread. Don't some sites use "hosted avatars?" to keep their space clear
i sometimes look at the mag and never at the trade.
I've filled my gallery, tho i've had one comment since the start, so i'll do my part and wipe it, my site covers it now anyway. my PM box is also a bit full, i'll preen it.
Is there a way to put more emphasis to looking for a question before you ask? theres too many CofG and what engine??? questions, that must use allot of space. at the simplest moderators can jump on these as quick as pos, at the most hi-tec when you type in the question and hit enter is suggests you look at "these posts" before it puts yours up and wastes space.
I'm sure my GF will be happy if i don't spend hours on here.

ChuckAuger

My Feedback: (12)

But when you started RCU, you stated you wanted to be the biggest and best RC website in the universe.

You also stated you had experience with web hosting.

Did it only just dawn on you that it was gonna take some $$ to be be the biggest RC website in the universe??

I doubt that.

And now it's (pardon the harsh analogy) kinda like a dope dealer getting kids hooked for free, the hitting them up for money once they are addicted. He knew full well going in that was what would happen.


Does RCU have value?? Sure, I think it does. I like coming here..learned a lot, tried a bunch of things I might not have tried, made some great deals, made some friends.

I don't deny that.

Then the alternatives..don't like it, buy a mag. Don't like it, go to Ebay...don't like it, go to the "trash can" site. Puullleeease...just say how much you want to charge and be done with it. People will either pay or not. That's what magazines do, that's what Ebay does...that's the way it works.

And the $12~$24/year sounds reasonable enough...this year. Seems like AMA insurance used to only cost $24/year. See analogy above for the rest of the story.

I'm not so naive to say I didn't see this day coming from the very first post of "biggest & best"...you wanted world domination and you spared no expense getting there. I also think you had to know all along that sooner or later you would have to charge.

Now having said all that, I'd pay $15/year for the use of this site as it is....I'm not a destitute tight wad just yet...but if others flee like rats from a sinking ship would I still be getting what I paid for?? No. Would I pay for next year..probably not.

That's the flip side to the coin (dang..was that a pun??)

Modelman

My Feedback: (7)

Marc,

Gotta tell you... I love RCU! I wouldn't bat an elelash over subscribing! Even at $30+/yr.

Why? RCU has become my "Personal Magazine".

1. I am free to participate in the forums that interest me the most with the options to "Drop-in" on forums that may pique my interest from time-to-time. Try doing that with a published magazine. In that, I mean, When you receive your monthly publication in the mailbox, you are limited to the articles that are published. If they don't interest you, they still take up pages. Maybe there will be an interesting article on your aspect of the hobby... maybe not. It's a crap-shoot until you get the publication.

2. Latency. On RCU, the reader is almost instantaenously able to retrieve feedback and opinion on any given product. This is not the case with a paper publication. By the time manufacturers send samples to reviewers, they review the samples, the article gets published and the publication reaches you... 8 months have passed since the products release. On RCU I can read and apply information gained in the forums immediately. I don't have to wait for the Big Guns to publish the reviews.

3. Ability to fully participate. If I have a question or comment. I am certainly guaranteed a reply, position or comment within 2 hours. Granted, it's up to me to filter and compile the return information. Where and how else can a modeler get information so quick from people who have already "Been-there, Done-that?"

4. I feel, and this is completely my opinion, that those whom feel this service should be free - because they already pay for their service provider - should reevaluate their position. This is a service and as such, it should be supported by it's users. Your internet provider is a vehicle. Not wanting to pay for RCU is like purchasing a cordless phone (the internet provider) - and then not wanting to pay for the calls because, "Hey... I already paid for the phone."

I view RCU as a Magazine, an invaluable source of information and a gathering place for friends worldwide. Even at twice your proposed subscription fee, RCU is less expensive than all my subscriptions together and provides 100x the information and fellowship any published media could attempt to provide.

To me, the information I receive from RCU is invaluable. It's the knowlege base and fellowship on RCU that keeps me active and participating. I, for one, would gladly pay for that!

Craig

Flyboy Dave

My Feedback: (21)

....pay to play....

Alot of folks would say that the internet should be free.
The internet is for entertainment....right ? But how
much does entertainment really cost ?

A night at the movies cost's about $8.50, for 90 mins.
A round of golf cost's $20 to $60....four hours.
A magazine, at subscription rates....is about $1.50....
maybe 2 hours entertainment.
My local newspaper wanted $35.00 for a five day ad to
try and sell my car.
I pay $50./month for DSL service, tacked on to my phone
bill.....
A soda at the AM-PM cost's over a buck....

I spend a couple hours a day here at RCU, just reading
and having some "entertainment". (yes I am addicted)
I come here to learn stuff....and share stuff, and have
some fun....so let's say I was to spend 50 hrs/month
here....just for the sake of argument....

Now you are saying you might charge me as much as
$2.00 per month ?

That's $.04 per hour !!!! One dollar a month would
be $.02 per hour.....what a high price for some silly
entertainment....

And for that amount of money....all I get to do is....
....get some fun out of my computer....
....get good deals on parts and stuff....
....find parts and things, that are really hard to come by.
....learn new techniques....
....share my experiences....
....make a few friends....
....and have a ball doing it !

This hobby is really getting expensive !
Tongue in cheek, folks....

I'm sure that after all the opinions have been weighed...
the right answer will surface.

Thank you, Sir....for this wonderful site....

Dave.

Slocum

Think option 4. Pure ad based but for sales are ads. Small fees in the for sail section will go a long way.