Blixsim

Hi

I would like to get other modellers views on "made in China" products. Almost every review one reads claims that Chinese Products especially engines are almost as good as any of the major brands. I have had a Chinese brand engine and it performed like magic. I thought it was amazing until it ran a few months then things started going wrong, unreliable starting, o-ring failures, bearing failures. In general the whole unit appeared to be made of such poor quality materials to the point where the main bearing was slipping inside the case due to wear (?).

I have subsequently invested in designer brands and extra money spent was well worth it. They never miss a beat and quality is superb.

I have now taken the view that I will never ever ever again invest in chinese brands. Of course they do perform out of the box but it doesnt last. Am I been a bit silly here in generalising. Would appreciate other modellers' views and experiences

Regards
Hedley

Goinstraightup

My Feedback: (26)

Blixsim,

You've found out what a lot of us have. You get what you pay for.

I have to admit, you are one of the smart ones. I've seen so many people in this hobby who are penny wise and dollar foolish. What I mean is they've had bad experiences and still buy that stuff over and over. Then those of us who are experienced have to mess with this junk at the field. Sorry for the rant, but this has happened to me many times.

You have come to realize what I have. Spending an extra $5 to $20 bucks at the hobby shop can save you hours and hours of flight time. I agree with you, our flight time is too valuable to spend it messing with inferior equipment (no matter what country it may have originated from).

flicka5

My Feedback: (2)

Does this mean that the Super Tigre line of engines that now are being made in China are history??

P-51B

My Feedback: (5)

Don't know, but I do know they will have to prove they are as good as the Italian built before I will consider buying one.

Lynx

Cheaper labor, cheeper products, but lower quality control, that's what made in China means. From what I hear China's starting to take steps into the consumer electronics market but I wouldn't touch the stuff till it's proved itself in a market.

ilikeplanes

The quality of the product is not defined by the shop that makes it, it's defined by the specifications that the customer puts on the drawing. Super Tigre, for example, defines materials, tolerances, and statistical process capability. It doesn't matter if the parts are made in China, USA, or timbuktoo.

If Chinese made Super Tigres are poor quality, blame Super Tigre for not properly specifying the components.

Lynx

Umm... I hate to tell you this, but the statement above is so blatantly out of line with what actually occurs in the real world it's laughable.. I've worked in semi-precision metal finishing for over 5 years and I can sadly tell you that the plant definitively does matter. Specs are not writ in stone believe it or not because they can be interpreted with enough variation depending on the actual implementation of those specs to make them only rough starting point for how the part is actually made. You might not think this but I've seen many examples that prove it from wide and varied sources, not to mention what the public actually ends up seeing of it in recalls and flaky products that have a 'feature' list that grows as the product ages.

P-51B

My Feedback: (5)

This is a joke right???

IronCross

And what planet are we from... The original SuperTigre doesn't even own the name anymore.....

ChuckN

I'm an aerospace machinist by trade. Not only does the person who's running the machine influence the quality of the part produced, so does the machine actually making the parts. It appears that most things (if not all things) made in China are manufactured with Chinese made machines. This a fundamental problem. My company tried to save money several years ago and bought some Chinese made mills and lathes for light duty jobs. My area got a nifty Chinese CNC mill made by "Comet". It was dirt cheap and worked pretty well - for awhile! After about 8 months the guys who were assembling and testing the turbine engine starter motors we machined were not happy. Even though the machine's computer showed us we were locating our gear shaft bores on location a subsequent check by an American made coordinate measuring machine showed that the shaft bore locations were drifting several thousandths. There was no consistancy with that 8 month old Comet. The mill was replaced within the month with a Japanese one.

rajul

My Feedback: (58)

I have friends managing factories in China, and the no. 1 problem they have is the attitude ! Instructions from high level never gets down to lower levels, high staff turnover rate, training problems...........We see much hype about China now but how long can they sustain their low cost competitiveness remains to be seen with workers demanding higher pay. The salaries of engineers have doubled in China over a short course of a few years. BTW, guess where the killer flu virus, and the one in the 1917 epidemic came from ? No prizes here.........

eefkt

HI, first of all, I am a Chinese, so my opinion could be biased.

I totally agree with the quality issue of product made in
China. But they are CHEAP, much cheaper then
you may think if you are in the US. For example,
I could easily get
an ASP/Magnum engine for half the price you
get in the US, not a steal, with dealers and LHS
making profit.

Sometimes I wonder why Magnum are so expansive
in the US, with only a fraction of cut when compared
to brand name like OS, maybe they have to consider
the cost of warranty.

Well, in my case, when I pay half the price,
I would only expect half as good, so more then often,
I am a very happy man.

eefkt

Speaking of warranty, Hedley, maybe you
should check if you could ask for a fix or replacement,
since it's just a few month old.

And what is the engine you are referring to,
I should put it on my caution list.

Ting

William Robison

My Feedback: (3)

Well, folks, I can only tell you what my experience has been.

OS? Never worn one out, my oldest is (Truly) over 40 years old, a Max I .35, The others range through a pair of Max III .15 r/c going on another twin, to my newest .46 on a Magic. I've had a pot full of OS engines.

But I have also never worn out a Magnum. My oldest is nowhere nearly as old as that OS 35, but the Magnums haven't been around that long.

The oldest is a cheap .25, not even a BB crank, in a Goldberg Eaglet, the plane and engine are a little over 10 years old.

And a pair of .46 XL engines in another twin, 5 years old and no problems. Still run like new.

The only Magnum I've had any trouble at all with was a four month old .40 XLS, and that was because I flew it into the ground at 80 mph or thereabouts. Not the engine's fault at all.

My son is flying some Thunder Tigers with excellent results, I've not had any. Granted, they're Free Chinese (Taiwan) and not Red Chinese, but they're Chinese nonetheless. And they are well thought of.

To sum up, I've never had any reason to be sorry my Chinese engines did not say OS on the side, and I have absolutely no reservation about recommending the Magnum engines.

Maybe I'm just lucky, but I've also had very good service from MDS engines.

However, since my "Good Luck" has been so consistent, I think it more likely is not mistreating them.

Given good treatment and proper care,
. Chinese engines keep you in the air.

Bill.

dadzilla-5

I have an ASP .12 that runs very well after three seasons and was a pleasure to operate right out of the box. I also have a GMS 40 that was a real bear to start the first time but runs very well now. The only problem with the GMS is that it will not shut off. It will idle right down to where it is barely turning over, but you need to pull the fuel line to kill it. Clarence Lee says this is common with the GMS. I have only owned it one season, but aside from the tough break in, it has been great, and only cost half of an O.S FX while making very similar power. So I would say, though I am not an expert, that Chinese engines are good value for the money.

Lynx

It's not like RC engines are precision components anyways. Semi precison at best, and then they're allowed to wear themselves down into their optimium running conditions. If you don't screw with it too much there's no reason for it to break. The carbs are more important than anything else.

flicka5

My Feedback: (2)

As the thread originator stated in post #1, outer main bearing slipping in the crankcase housing is not a normal wear occurrence as interference fit-ups are standard bearing assembly methods.
If this happens it is most likely due to poor interference design or if correct, lack of quality control of proper machined dimensions in the crankcase. I have a Chinese .61 ABC engine that I bought new 7 to 8 yrs. ago which I threw in the drawer, unable to run it up beyond a very low RPM and not enough top RPM to sustain flight on a 6# model. A change in carbs did no good! Also, have a .40 ASP that runs like a champ. Mixed reviews!

AndyW

My Feedback: (1)

Yes, mixed reviews regarding Chinese products. I have a CS (China Sang) .049 competition engine. Wouldn't run better than a BABE BEE .049. Crank was poorly done. Bearing fit was too tight. Backplate was seized up due to poor threads However, the fit and finish of the piston, cylinder and rod were first class. A complete rebuild was required to get it to perform as well as a Norvel but still, this one couldn't be called a competition engine.

The pipe fitted to this engine is amazingly ingenious and well made.

Another note. Have just received the Wattage Extra 330L. This ARF electric is all built up of balsa and ply and covered and trimmed in film. The construction is excellent. Covering job is better than I could do, trim on straight and symmetrical. Wood quality is top notch.

So, like early Japanese products, Chinese products seem simply to be going through an early phase of quality control problems. When they get their act together, watch out.

Makes you wonder where our jobs will be going to in the future. I'll be real concerned when Chinese car dealerships start popping up all over the place.

ilikeplanes

LYNX, my statement was based on industry experience with a $500 million/year company. We source components world wide. The quality of the components is defined by the quality of the specifications, the business relation with the suppliers, and the expectation that the specifications are met no mater what. If they're not, we don't pay for them. We always send good product out the door. Our customers do not allow anything else.

Of course, all of this depends on a modern production and assembly culture. Robust design, failure mode analysis, boundary diagrams, design verification, process flow charts, capable measuring systems, statistical process control, continuous improvement, lessons learned, etc. It also includes strict design revision control and design change prove-out. You simply can't compete without doing these things.

We also produce about half the components we use in our own shop. We use a variety of tools from ancient Wickman screw machines to brand new Mazak milling machines to custom made assembly machines. The machinery is selected to do the job at hand and all the processes are continuously monitored statistically for process capability.

BTW, we babysit many of our domestic suppliers much much more than out international ones. Quality operating systems is just a simple fact of life for international suppliers. Many domestic suppliers also use quality operating systems. Other domestic suppliers have no idea what it means. Of course, we do our best to select quality suppliers both domestic and international. We also monitor their performance for on-time deliveries, defect rates, and cost.

I also worked in aviation for five years. I have several supplemental type certificates to my name. To a great extent, aviation components are not truly mass produced. Each and every part is very carefully measured for accuracy, fit, and finish. It's definitely craftsmanship oriented work. We never did a gauge repeatability and reproducibility test though. That's a basic requirement for mass production.

Now, as far as model engines are concerned, I doubt if many of the manufacturers use modern production and assembly culture or embrace quality operating systems. If model engines are still in the realm of craftsman built products, which I believe they are, then the end product will, obviously, reflect the craftsman who built it.

That's my experience.

Blixsim

Hi

I did not want to mention brand names in case of offending manufacturer concerned. The engine involved is a SC46 (Super custom) which I beleive is a rebrand of Magnum. I also have new in the box a SC180 which I am concidering selling or trading in on a Moki. I also have an Irvine53 which seems to be quite good

I have since only purchased OS and Rossi and think I will keep to these brands. The performance and quality is outstanding and well worth the extra investment.

I do understand that the chinese brands cater for budget spectrum of the market but how much more can it cost to use better quality materials. Technology can be purchased off the shelf so its not like there is a huge investment in R&D.

For me its Once bitten twice shy.

Oh I have also invested in one or two chinese household appliances and guess what, me buy no more chinese

Keep em flying
Hedley

lloyd allen

well all ive seen is a large shifting tide to chiness engines,the shear numbers speak for themselves,why bash a country when they simply want to be like us.or mabee a littel better,i think we should take it as an hounour that they would produce engines well.

Grampaw

`When I joined my club about 10 years ago I bought a plane, radio and engine. The plane has long since gone, the radio has been retired (AM) but that engine is still running and very well thank you. I used it in a Funster after the first plane for several years, then put it in an LT-40 2 years ago, and am still flying it with that engine teaching my two Grandsons to fly. I am the third one in the club to own this engine, but I knew what I was getting when I bought it as I have used this brand for years and have gotten the best service from them, and the folks that made them. I'm speaking of Fox engines, American made, good very, reliable and easy to start every time. Of course, this is just one "old geezer's" opinion. Oh, by the way, before installing it in the LT-40 I sent it to Fox for a look see and any repairs necessary.
They returned it in a week, charged me $7.50.

William Robison

My Feedback: (3)

Grampaw:

For reasons I wont go into here, (I've done enough venting about it elsewhere) I wont buy Fox engines, or Apple computers. But I dearly love my K&B's. And Free Chinese radios and engines, and Red Chinese too. I've had excellent service from every one I've gotten.

Bill.

Shaun Evans

Hi,

I see your points, but it doesn't carry into all products. Take Yellow's kits and ARFs, for example. I think they're worth way more than what you pay, when compared to like products produced in the US and Europe. The quality is good, not just 'good for the money'. Just my biased two cents...

Grampaw

William Robison...
I didn't see your other comments about Fox engines, but it is no matter, you and I don't agree on that point anyway. But that's what makes the world go round isn't it? We agree on one thing though, K&B engines. I have not had any other K&Bs than the Sportster 28s. I understand they are no more. Shame. It was one of the finest engines I ever owned and flew. The more I flew it the better it got. I hope the new owners decide to bring it back into production. William, we may not agree on engines but I'm sure we agree on one thing, this hobby huh? Good flying.