Wild Foamy

ok, so get this.

i went flying a few days ago, trying to shake off the winter withdrawal.

i was a bit rusty at the stick so i chose to fly the Mick reeves Gangster, its a big heavy bird but relatively stable, its overpowered (running a .75 in a .60 airframe)

i fueled up, rolled out onto the runway and it lifted off without a problem, i was happily throwing it around the sky, doing touch and gos and all manner of things, after a few minutes a family wanders into the field with their dog, the kid has a little Aero ace thingy and he comes over to watch me fly, the parents go off around the field to walk the pooch, about 5 minutes later they return and also come and watch me fly, i bring the gangster onto final, really beautiful landing, but just as the wheels touch down and i drop the throttle the stupid pooch runs out onto the strip, i gun the throttle and pull it over hard to the left, narrowly missing the dog,
the plane manages to crawl in the air but i was a bit overenthusiastic with the elevator and put it into a high angle of attack, the Super Tigre 75 coughs, farts, splutters and quits.

the gangster drops (rather slowly for such a heavy plane) onto the hard rocky terrain below, one wingtip was damaged, a landing gear wire got bent and the prop broke the Mother of the family runs out and grabs the dog and proceeds with the same old routine of appologies and the like but i was in no mood to listen,

i walk out and retrieve the plane (it belly-flopped just off the landing strip) and it turns out the fuel level was rather low, not all gone but quite low, and when i pulled it up to avoid the dog it starved the tigre of fuel, causing it to quit (and me, not having enough airspeed to level out and glide it back to soft ground)

it was partly my fault but also the fault of the Dogs owners, i did tell them rather politely (considering what was going through my head) that they shouldnt even be there in the first place when there are aircraft in the air and that the aeroplane probably would have seriously injured the dog, if not killed it.

were not talking rocket science, just common sense, the dog didnt even have a leash on... makes you wander what these people must be thinking [:@]

RCKen

My Feedback: (9)

As a pilot in the air with spectators you should have let them know your intentions, especially if they were standing close to you. Unless your field is marked as an area that spectators shouldn't go into then it's your responsibility to make sure that you aren't going to hit anything. You should have at least told the people that you planned on landing and that they should be out of the way. But at best, you should have had a spotter with you that would have told you to go around since there was a dog on the field. Regardless, if you had hit the dog you would have been the one in the wrong and would face all the liabilities that came from it. What if that had been a person instead of a dog? If you want to see some serious liability hit a person and see what happens. But the bottom line is that you have to ensure that you are flying in a safe area and in a safe manner.

Ken

vegas mossie

i don't completely agree about the liability. first off, the people brought the little boy to the field to fly indicating they knew it was a flying field. secondly, dogs are supposed to be leashed in public, not allowed to roam free. as to hitting a person, if they knowingly step onto a dedicated flying field, then they accept some of the responsibility for being there. would you take your pet to the local fullsized airport and let it run free on the runway? the airplane was already in the air when the family showed up. the laws of physics trump the laws of man in this instance i think. just my opinion, loren

RCKen

My Feedback: (9)

vegas mossie,
That is partly what I was trying to say. IF the field was marked as a flying field and was labeled for people to stay out of the flying area (as the AMA requires here in the US) then you are right, the people were wrong. BUT, if the area he was flying in isn't marked as a flying field then it is the pilot's responsibility to fly safely. It all depends on the area he was flying in and how it was labeled.

Ken

Live Wire

Ken
I think in the U.K. they watch closer where they fly than here in the U.S., Where people fly where they please and when they please Just my thoughts

CAPs & ..

YNOT

Few weeks back, a pilots dog was running around, guy flying a foamy, dog runs up and goes to bite/grab/kill the little foamy. Well.......dog got a nose full of prop.

Hurt the dog. Foamy pilot was shaken up a bit. Dog owner went to find a Vet.

Not a big fan of dogs running loose at the field. I have seen more than one field with a dog on leash sign.

vegas mossie

if the field is not dedicated to flying, then i would think the liability would be on both parties. i agree the pilot needs to be very careful when spectators are around, but the spectators assume some of the risk as well by putting themselves at risk in the first place. and bringing a dog to the field should be an absolute no-no. by nature, they will chase anything that will run away from them. (dogs, not spectators)

Dr1Driver

Whether the flying field is marked and labeled as to where everyone should be and what the rules are, it's STILL the pilot's ultimate responsibility to avoid an accident with people, animals, or property.

Now, that being said - as a responsible pet owner, I have to say this: the adults in that little tribe should have known well enough to keep their animal under control, especially in a strange environment. As an R/C pilot, in that case, I would have been sorry if I hit the pooch, but I wouldn't have lost too much sleep over it, since the animal was actually on the runway and interferring with the plane.

I often fly alone and sometimes take my two dogs with me. When I'm alone, they have the run of the grounds while I'm assemblnig the plane, but are confined to my van while I'm in the air. If someone else is out there with me, they are always on leash or confined.

Despite several (cute) pictures in R/C publications of dogs chasing planes, the two don't mix. I specifically remember one picture in R/C Report of a German shepherd leaping with the fuselage of a Duraplane in flight (engine running) actually in his mouth. I'm glad he didn't bite the prop. I wonder how much damage was done to the plane or the dog after the picture was taken.

Dr.1

ira d

The field I fly at has a couple of stray dogs that have been adopted of sorts by the
club members, I have noticed lately the dogs wander on to the runway more and
more while there are planes in the air.

I was just thinking to myself yesterday this may become a problem especaily
when you are flying alone but i cant think of a practical solution for it.

Bass1

Ya know , Just reading this gets the hair on the back of my neck to stand on end. First of all free running dogs in the vicinity of operational aircraft of any kind just don't mix. Some people ( the dog owners in this case) are 2 beers short of a six pack. Is common sense becoming extinct? I recently went to an RC club to visit and spectate and one of the members had his "Yorkie" tied to his portable chair and for an hour or so while he flew and visited other fliers, his dog barked, yapped and yellped relentlessly at the taxiing and flying airplanes. It was so un-nerving and irritating that I left in disgust. I guess there is a time and place for everything but an active airstrip be it models or full scale is not the place to run and exercise your pets!. Sorry for the rant but common sense/courtesy/safety seems to be harder to come by these days.

chashint

When it comes to liability in any instance of an RC airplane striking person, property, or animal rest assured that the sole liability lies with the person at the controls of the RC airplane. It will matter not what the circumstances are, if the operator causes damage the operator is responsible. Besides you do not want for any damage or injury to occur regardless of the liability issue.
One of the places I occasionally fly is a city owned flying site and it is designated as such however is also a public park. If kids are fishing at the creek, or people are riding horses, or playing with their dogs in the fly zone that does not mean the people wanting to fly airplanes are not liable if someone or something is injured or damaged. In fact if you know that these "liabilities" are in the area and operate your RC aircraft you might actually be considered maliciously liable in case of an accident because you are the one that knows how dangerous the model can be.
If you think you could go to trial and win a liability case in the United States you are very mistaken, you would stand no chance with a jury or a judge.

Bass1

I guess I'm spoiled. I belong to a great RC Club with a beautiful and spacious private airfield (members and guests only) and don't have to deal with kite fliers, dog runners, minnow dunkers and frisbee chuckers. Although I do enjoy all of those activities!

Deadeye

I couldn't agree more.

Jim Thomerson

Agree, I don't like to see dogs at the flying field. However, a true story. I was at a control line contest at DeKalb, IL. Someone had a German shepard not on a leash. Did not like to see it, but dog was perfectly well mannered. However, during one of the heats of Goodyear racing, one of the airplanes lost a wheel on landing and ended up upside down about halfway into the circle. When the heat was finished the German shepard ran out to the the upside-down racer and lifted his leg, then ran back out of the circle. Everyone , including the airplane owner, thought it was hugely funny.

Dr1Driver

Bass1, you make a lot of good points. I'm sure that poor Yorkie was beside himself from being tied up all day. I'm sure the noise from his incessant yaping was annoying. Dogs usually bark because they're frightened, protective of food or range, or just want attention. I'm sure it was all three in this case.

Public park flying is a special problem, since EVERYONE there has the same right to pursue their funtime activity. Most clubs will allow pets as long as they're under control at all times. Bass1, you hit it when you said "Is common sense becoming extinct?" Not only is common sense fading out, acceptance of responsibility is gone, too, it seems.

I think the bottom line is, if you're at a private club field, you have every right to tell the pet owner to take care of their animal and keep it uder control. If you're at a public park, you're on your own. Unfortunately, Charlie is right. The court decision will 99.99% go against the R/C pilot.

Foamy, youre to be commended for risking a trashed plane for a runaway pooch! Of course, if you'd simply left it on the runway, the scene that Jim described may have occurred.

Dr.1

BasinBum

My Feedback: (2)

I never realized so many lawyers flew RC and posted on RCU. I am even more amazed that the American lawyers here have such a vast knowledge of liabilty law in the U.K.

You guys have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to RC and legal liability, if I am wrong please tell me what cases you have been involved with and in what capacity. The only case I have direct knowledge of came out completely differant than what most assume is "common sense" or AMA rules. People make a lot of assumptions about the law when in actuality it has nothing to do with common sense (whatever that means) and more to do with precedent and what ever insurance policies cover.

What irratates me is the ignorant family endangering the dog. This type of thing happens all to often at the field I frequent and usually involves small children or families with strollers. A yapping dog in the pits is all too familar as well. People in general are stupid when it comes to the dangers inherant in RC that we consider "common sense".

vegas mossie

if i am wrong then please educate me on the final truths of the matter. my point, simplified, is that if you knowingly put yourself (or your pet) in harms way, then you must accept at least some of the responcibility if you get hurt. saying "i didn't know the model was dangerous" is no different then saying it about a lawn mower. if it has an engine or motor, and any more moving parts, it is a machine. as such it has the potential to be dangerous. people with children and pets are old enough to understand the dangers, even if they don't understand how the machine works. if you don't know how to use it, then stay away from it. words to keep your fingers by. again just my opinion. loren

Dr1Driver

The only case I have direct knowledge of

Then you don't know any more than we do, do you? As a point of fact, a search for liability cases involving R/C planes bears out what has been said in this thread.

Dr.1

BasinBum

My Feedback: (2)

You are correct, I don't know any more than anyone who has posted. As for your "point of fact", I'd like to see what you came up with in your search. And "bears out what was said in this thread"? What has been said in this thread are several differing opinions so your statement makes no sense. This thread is just another example of people stating what they assume is the law concerning RC accidents and I maintain 99.9% of RCU members don't know what they are talking about, myself included. That's why I don't try and spout legal opinions here.

CGRetired

My Feedback: (1)

Now..now, guys... keep it civil.

The dog belongs on a leash. Period. But, you can rest assured that if the plane hit the dog, there is going to be an awful lot of expense involved paying lawyers to defend either side. No one wins. Even the innocent has to pay the legal fees... which can be costly.

Either keep the dogs away, but if that's not possible, then keep them on a leash.. and tell the owners so!!!

I had one chase my Tiger 60 a few years ago. The dog just showed up, followed, about 3 or so minutes later, by the owner with a leash in his hand and the big bull-dog chasing my aircraft around. I didn't notice the dog until I was making a downwind pass to land and saw the dog running under the plane jumping up to try to catch it, even though it was 20 or so feet up. I climbed and orbited while calling the owner over and told him to please put the leash on the dog, which he did, then watched me land. The dog was yanking on the leash trying to get at the plane until I shut down the engine then it calmed down.

The owner thanked me and left... I was very happy with that, didn't want a confrontation on state owned land that we BOTH had a right to be on.

CGr.

jettstarblue

My dog, Cronie, jumped up and ate my last park flyer as I was making a low pass/touch and go off the trampoline.

He loved it, I did not.

Lesson learned.

Dr1Driver

The dog belongs on a leash. Period. But, you can rest assured that if the plane hit the dog, there is going to be an awful lot of expense involved paying lawyers to defend either side. No one wins. Even the innocent has to pay the legal fees... which can be costly.

Legal "experts" and opinions aside, THAT'S the bottom line.

My dog, Cronie, jumped up and ate my last park flyer as I was making a low pass/touch and go off the trampoline.

Best thing that could happen to a park flyer. Good doggie. <giggle> [sm=lol.gif]

Dr.1

Bass1

jettstarblue

Yeah, the old dog helped me to see the error of my ways....I'm back to the tedium and labor (of love) of building from kits and from scratch.

The Park flyers are good for a quick fix, but they just aren't the same as the expense, expertise, and elitism involved in building from kits or scratch.

Plus electric is just not the same as glow.

Live Wire

The Bum ,Jett and the Outlaw, Looks like a full house