wingspan99

My Feedback: (2)

Do you really think Customs will let you fly a plane across the border? Don't you think they'll want to inspect your plane before you cross the border? The first thing they'll think is that you might have 10kilos of drugs buried in the fuselage.

stevezero

My Feedback: (11)

Weldo, et all;

I have been lurking around the thread, and decided to throw in my two cents worth about the topic. I can understand the dream you have Weldo, but do have to question the feasibility of the goal. Times have changed alot since 1975, when the first flight of this nature was done. The pilot did this with the authorization of both the AMA and, more importantly the FAA. The density of people has increased dramaticaly since that time, including lawyers (exponentially I think). Finding even a circiticious route where you bypass major cities would still lead to a lot of headaches. The logistics involved would be astronomical. How many planes/radios/servos/batteries/fuel pumps, starters, etc would you need as spares? How much model fuel would you be willing to safely carry in a car? What do you do to prevent sunburn, windburn, eyestrain, and muscle fatigue?

You would have to pre-run the entire route, not going by maps or word of mouth alone. That alone would take at least a month. Then you would have to try to find out what city, state, and local laws would apply to the areas you have mapped out, as well as FAA restricted airspace. Would you need some sort of permits to fly through a specific area? In larger areas, the FAA restricts down to 0 AGL. You would have to either bypass those areas, or try to get clearance within some sort of time corridor to fly thru. That would be quite a feat to pull off, given the tight security restrictions that have been imposed since September 11, 2001.


The big item would be insurance. I doubt the AMA would cover someone ripping down the interstate, city, or rural roads controlling an airplane flying ahead or behind them. The risks to other drivers on the road are too immense. There are justifyable arguements about the accidents that could be caused by drivers seeing a large scale aircraft at low altitude going overhead. How many people with cell phones would call 911 to say they are sure they saw a small plane getting ready to crash, and emergency crews would be sent on wild goose chases? That response could delay help to someone who needs it. Would the AMA or your homeowners insurance cover a radio hit or battery failure that would send the plane crashing into oncoming traffic? Would you, the driver of the car, or both be charged with criminal offenses in the case of an accident (negligent homicide, reckless endangerment, willfull destruction of property, etc)? Would the driver's car insurance be hit with a claim? Even if it was on a rural road, the risk would be too large. The noble idea would seem awful trivial should someones parent get killed because they got distracted or hit by a low flying plane. I highly doubt that the AMA would cover it, because there is no way to mandate a road as a flightline, and the boundries that cover a flying field. We as pilots are aware of the risks when we step foot onto the flying field, and we accept them by going through the gate. There is no possible way the general public could be informed or accept those risks. The AMA takes a long hard look at every insurance claim that is made against them, and if you do not have every i dotted, and every t crossed, they revoke the claim, and you are left holding the bag. Is the financial safety and wellbeing of your family worth that risk? Take a serious look at your surroundings on your drive home, and try to envision the worst possible deadstick or failure. All those power lines stretching across the road, telephone and light poles, signs, people, houses, oncoming traffic, etc would make even the easiest emergency landings difficult. Now try to envision that on a moving, sometimes strange landscape, that is constantly changing. Mental and physical fatigue would play a large role in your sucess or failure. I have only been west of the Missisippi River a few times, but I know that here in the Mid-Atlantic states even the rural roads have trees that have overgrown the roadways and would not offer clear visibility. It is by no means wide open.

Although I think wingspan was a lil harsh on you, quite a few of his points make sense. He and I have talked several times in the past about cross country flying, complete with on board video (think fall foliage video from NC, which would be quite entertaining), but once we started analyzing it, it was not worth it. We will however, get some awesome inflight video from the field this year. He has over 20 years in the hobby and is also prepping for his private pilots liscence, so I do not doubt his "qualifications".

I do have a problem with soliciting funds for this without a detailed, realistic plan. I also do agree with the post about too many people using the events of September 11 for capital gain. I am by no means accusing you of doing that, but in all honesty, it looked like a cross between the 700 club membership drives and/or timeshare selling. What happens if you do not go ahead with the flight? Do you refund the money? What happens to the money that could be left over after expenses. Before beginning to even think about asking others for money, you need to really think this through.

Given all the recent posts in other threads about noise, safety, insurance, etc, do we really want to have RC Flying portrayed in this manner? The negative publicity from any sort of accident would surely outlive any positive publicity should the flight go unscathed.

I am by no means trying to be condescending, just trying to offer a small reality check, and play devil's advocate.

Steve

Frankenthumb

My Feedback: (2)

As to the safety dilema regarding interference:

You can rent or borrow a spectrum analyzer, and use it to detect emissions in the frequency band that you are flying on. It would probably be best to have it in a scout vehicle some miles in front of you. The benefit would be that you would know in advance if you are flying in to an area that has a club, park flyer activity, etc. as well as detection of emissions coming from sources other than RC activity. This will prevent you from crashing someone elses plane, and protect yours from interference as well. I would also suggest that you drive the route in advance, and scan the frequency spectrum along the way on that trip too. This will alert you to any unavoidable interference not coming from RC activity that may force you to re-route in mid attempt.

P.S. Just for kicks, wouldn't it be fun to take I70 through the rockies and fly that puppy through the Lincoln Tunnel??!!!! OK, not realistic, but it WOULD be fun!

majesticmonkey

Re: wingspan99 -- I was just kidding!

Cdallas2

I've mentioned this before - more in regards to "model" jets with pop bottle fuel tanks. But the point of the matter is that until someone gets killed it's okay in most peoples books. When you crash your plane through the windshield of an oncoming car you WILL destroy our beloved hobby.

20/20 and all those other shows will be on you in no time saying that some schmuck in the name of 9/11 killed some innoccent motorist our hobby will be shut down in no time at all.

For the sake of our hobby and some of us our lifestyle and livelyhood STAY HOME and whatever you do stay out of Canada.

SDCrashmaster

I agree with the naysayers, but not with the cocky attitude and demeaning nature of one particular naysayer. He can't seem to express his opinion with out spewing insults and putting someone down. Trust me, he shouldn't be insulting..I've seen his website.
Weldo has a dream. Sure, It's a little bit wacky, but so what? He doesn't need your criticism, just your input.
You go, Weldo! But, go do something even more challenging. Like inflight refueling and a longest time aloft record. :-)

Taildragger

My Feedback: (204)

Well said SDCrashmaster! Oh, and how long do you have to stir that balsa and dirt to get it to mix well?

SDCrashmaster

In my experience, one good impact between the two should do it.

Weldo J Melvin

LOL

bigjohnsonrc

My Feedback: (1)

Looks like you have a lot of fans already, Weldo. Who knows, if you get really good at this you might want to do a Will Rogers/Wiley Post flight. I also like the inflight refueling idea for your cross country. Think about it.....cross country non stop!!

Good Luck and God Speed

stevezero

My Feedback: (11)

OK guys, Cross country nonstop wouldn't fly, literally. For that to happen, the plane would have to be rigged for lights, have some sort of monster lithium ion battery to power the radio gear, and how would you sync up two planes for midair refueling. Even averaging 50mph, figure 3400 miles direct route across the country, would still take you nearly 3 days of nonstop flight.Thats not including turns in the roads, stop lights, detours etc. Even if you land to swap batteries, technically it wouldnt be nonstop. I am all for Weldo dreaming, and yes, its great to play "what if", but this would be quite a major undertaking and it is getting larger with every post.
Mid-air refueling would most likely turn into midair fireball/crash. How much fuel would you be dumping into the plane? 1 gallon, 5 gallons? If you take on a large enough amount of fuel, your plane will be over the 55lb AMA limit, which will require a waiver to even fly, much less go across the country off of AMA fields. Look at how hard it is to use an easy-fueler on the ground, to get it to connect and disconnect, much less in the air. Also, how would you pressurize the fuel tank enough to keep the motor running, and deliver fuel to the plane? What happens to the overflow fuel, or the fuel spray. Docking and refueling a full scale plane would be easier than a model, because you would be in the cockpit and able to line the plane up easier. Think of how hard that is going to be from looking at it 150 feet up.

All of this is making this project severly complex. Sit down, and write out a list of pros, cons, projects, sub projects, video options, cost of vehicles (rental vs purchase, trailer), expenses (food, hotel, gas, fuel, batteries, spares, radio gear, receivers, landing gear, wheels, fuel tanks, every little bit of hardware, clevises, wing panels, engines, props). You are going to have to have enough spare parts to totally rebuild the plane several times over. Throw in the idea of a spectrum analyzer to monitor radio waves around your area, two way radios, cell phones, cb radios for communications between crews, crews time off from work, long distance phone calls home from everyone, etc. Throw in making sure that every crew person's home insurance would cover them in the case of a medical emergency while away from thier home area (some companies dont).

Look at the way full scale companies develop new projects. They have to plan for, and anticipate every conceivable notion before they even begin preparations. They have contingency plans for everything. Weldo, it appears you have spent more time conjuring up the visions of justification and requests for support (not just emotional, but financial), and not enough on the technical side. By being totally unsure of the size/type of the airframe, it looks like you are just on a fishing expedition. I would think you would want to find the airframe that would be most efficient at 50 mph, because thats about the fastest youre going to be driving. Before you ask for money and your memberships, you should be requred to produce legal documentation covering insurance (flight and crew hospitalization), flight route, flight plan, local, state, federal permits, hazmat permits (if applicable). AMA and FAA clearance and approval, contingency plans, expenses (fully broken down into categories; airframe, radio gear, fuel, car expenses, hotel, food, etc). Also,you would need to detail what happens to any excess funding after your trip. Does it go into your pocket as a salary? Does it get donated to the AMA, or some charitable organization? You say you will require purchasing a trailer for this, does that stay with you, or does it get donated to the AMA? It needs to be stated in writing what you will be required to do with the funding should you not go ahead with the flight. Will it be refunded, or kept, or donated to the AMA or charitable organization. This list could, and should go on for much longer. It should be prepared by, or reviewed by an attorney and notorized, to be legally binding. Laws vary from state to state, and only an attorney would be able to make sure you are covered end to end. This way there is accountability.

That documentation would be for your benefit as well as your financial backers, so they know in advance what they are sending you membership checks for.

Not trying to be a naysayer, just a voice of reason. When you think of a creative idea, think of everything that could go wrong with it, and try to resolve those items. If you cant resolve them, try a different idea.

Your plan can not be taken haphazardly, winging it as you go along. It can not be a Thema and Louise thing, where you just hop in the car and go. Thier end result should be the answer why.....

I am not trying to be a naysayer, just a voice of reason.

Steve


PS: I'm not a lawyer, I just play one on RCU

Russ Verbael

Weldo

This is the second time I have offered the long (5 page) and very extensive RCM description of the 1975 Bob/Doris Rich flight across america. Reading this will give a full insight (vintage 1975) into the scope of detail that needs to be understood and dealt with.

To move from dreamer to researcher, please send address and I'll gladly send you the article.

Russ V.

PS I personally love to fly x-country, but shudder to think of the adverse publicity and legal implications if some unprepared fool went out and created a tragedy.

bigjohnsonrc

My Feedback: (1)

I just can't resist saying this: From the length of the messages, it looks as if Stevezero is in a Flatspn.

stevta

My Feedback: (1)

Here's a link to the 100th anniversary of flight. It might be a thought to co-ordinate your efforts with the anniversary.
Steve


http://www.firstflightcentennial.org/

stevezero

My Feedback: (11)

LOL Bigjohnson. I know I ramble on, but I do make alot of points he obviously hasnt considered. Lets hear your opinons about the topic, not about my rambling. I personally would hate to lose my field or the hobby due to a single persons major accident, especially if it can be prevented altogether. You are only as good as your last mistake, and do we really need the hobby to be displayed to the media that way? It's the same concept as guys catching a 40% plane from a hover. Yes, it can be done, but is it really practical or safe?
I am sure we would all value any valid input from you bigjohnson, not flames.

LYLE "D".

Stevezero....your line item veto of every phase of this "silly" idea of Weldo's....IS EXACTLY ON TRACK!! As you may or may not know, I was one of the first to mention just some of the problems with this idea, although my big concern was the reason for doing it...........But I could not HAVE SAID IT ANY BETTER THAN YOU DID....(Lyle D applauds Stevezero)........Now my last point........for the last 2 pages of ideas...there has only been one thing missing.... WELDO'S REBUTTALS?? The person that started this thing, isnt even prepared enough to answer some very thought provoking questions, about an idea that he conjured up!!! SORRY WELDO......Your silence has shown me that you are not someone I care to give thumbs-up to........

wingspan99

My Feedback: (2)

Weldo have you flown one mile x-country yet? How about this weekend? How's the weather looking for a one mile ride?

stevezero

My Feedback: (11)

Thanks Lyle. It just appears that I have put more thought into this idea than he has, and I'm not the one who wants to attempt it. I tried to be very respectful in my replies, because there are alot of dreams/ideas that I have that are sillier than his. If he does it, he should make every effort to do it well, and not half a*ssed. I will not support him financially, but will play devil's advocate for any idea he proposes. I would just hate to see him drug into court and his family sued out of thier house all in the name of RC Flying. Given how victim oriented and lawsuit happy our society is, one small "accident" would put him in a world of hurt.

Cdallas2

Dreams are all fine and dandy but not when they could affect the lives of so many people. Responsibilty and accountability are all things that are taken for granted nowadays.

Having him and his family dragged to court isn't such a bad idea - it's when the FAA shuts down AMA and drags MAAC down with that will really get me and probably everyone else just a tad ticked off.

If your going to live out a dream just think a little first okay.

Sawyer692-RCU

My Feedback: (6)

This guy did it. He happened to stop by our muni airport fire station and handout these flyers. Not RC but not much bigger.

rcav8or

My Feedback: (5)

Have to chime in here - what a bunch of "GREAT friends and modeler's some of you all are!!

All most of you have tried to do, is belittle Weldo, belittle his ideas, and belittle his dream...

Mostly you have just belittled yourselves!

How's about getting your heads together, and figuring out a way to make this work??

Imagine if all the clubs along the way, got together, and structured a way for it to be accomplished?? Get the AMA, FAA, newspapers, magazines, and public involved???

Set up the time, and route, and provide support along the way, as well as greasing the way with the the local authorities...build up support and publicity, along the way...inform the locals, and give Weldo a place to stay...make it a National thing!!

Hand out the AMA planes (can't remember what they are called) on the way to the public - get them interested!! It's only through the youth of today, that our hobby will grow and continue!

ESPECIALLY in this litagatious society, what we need is public awareness, let them know we "stick together", and that we have a creative, useful hobby, not just "video games" and TV...let people see that we are sunshine, and outdoors, not couch and potatoes!!

If it were done this way, I bet people would flock to see the plane go by...

There really isn't a need to fly non-stop, or even as fast as possible, since they have been done - make it a "goodwill tour", "awareness tour", or what have you...spread the news of the joys of RC flying to a new generation...

To the ones that just have out and out blasted, saying THEY are the ones thinking, sorry that you think that way, and it's a pleasure NOT to know you!!

They are right, you have to have a plan, Weldo...but even though you came here looking for ideas, I am sorry the short-sightedness of so many has caused some of the things I have seen in this thread...

Without the ideas, and some plans, I feel the $$ talk was premature...but I would have hoped for more constructive ideas, instead of destructive comments...

I am sure they laughed at the Wright Brothers, and Lindberg, and Rutan and Yaeger...

"Build it, and they will come!!"

Flame suit on!!

LYLE "D".

I am sure they laughed at the Wright Brothers, and Lindberg, and Rutan and Yaeger...


YES THEY DID.......but THOSE HEROES pulled the money for their various endeavors....from their own pockets! Of course there was massive financial gain at the end of the rainbow IF they succeded.......BECAUSE WHAT THEY ATTEMPTED HAD NEVER BEEN DONE BEFORE.....unlike our armchair RC dreamer WELDO.......

rcav8or, your plan is fantastic ! The only problem is it will take months if planning, hundreds of phone calls and e-mails, not to mention thousands of dollars to pull off. But most of all....an individual with the foresight, and the intestinal fortitude (guts) to pull it off!!! Unfortunately, WELDO hasnt bothered to show us any of of those traits.....and I for one will not sit idly by, and let one possibly very dangerous dreamer, destroy a sport that I have been involved with for 35 years...... because of his recklessness!!!!!!!!!!!!

Cdallas2

Roger - I'm sorry but Utopia's just don't work. The world isn't all full of shiny happy people. Lawyers are real and litigation isn't going away anytime soon. The AMA isn't going to get involved where their insurance is going to be suspect. Whether you like it or not - in this day and age you have to watch what you say and whatch what you do. If you happen to do something to pi*s someone off look out because your wallet is going too sting. We aren't trying to belittle anyone here we're just trying to make people realize that this just isn't too bright of an idea.

As far as flying a Quickee across America - it's just another scheme for some schmuk to make some money off of Sept. 11

rcav8or

My Feedback: (5)

Well, I guess we have it on "your" authority that the AMA won't get involved...I'm sure they are glad you are their spokesperson. And I'm really glad that you have determined that it's not a bright idea, and therefore we should all heed your warning...

However, if you read the posts previous, you will see that there is, indeed, people trying to belittle. Until you try, you have no idea what can and can't be done...

I know darn well that if runners can cross the US, with traffic stopped where necessary, then a flyer could cross the same way...major thorofares, cities, etc can be avoided, and most of the traveling be done in wide open spaces...and I am sure there are towns and cities, where such an action would be welcome.

Sure, it would take some serious logistics, and a lot of work, and it's possible it might not be able to be done, but if someone wants to try, that's their business...I am sure Weldo is sorry he brought it up here, and I don't blame him for not responding. His fortitude, intelligence, and everything else, has been questioned here. I find it hard to restrain myself, and I am not involved other than a fellow modeler. I think the name-calling, cheap shots, and everything else are deplorable. It's really easy behind the mask of the internet, to say whatever we feel like. There are no rules of authenticity as to qualifications, intelligence, or anything else - we can just say what we want.

I say, "Go, Weldo!"...if you should decide to cross Indiana, I will do what I can to help...and if you should get AMA Sanction, it wouldn't hurt to stop in Muncie, IN, home of the AMA, anyway!!

LYLE "D".

AMEN Cdallas2.....I was going address that Scammer also, but I got so upset, I HAD TO FIND ANOTHER MORPHINE PATCH!!!!