Child molesters in the AMA ?
04-03-2008, 06:49 AM
#51
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RE: Child molesters in the AMA ?
With the caneing there, do you have very many repeat offenders? Here we put them in jail with free food, free haircuts, free medical care, airconditioned cells with color TV. If their vicyim doesn't have health ins., the state won't even pay for their exame or treatment. My self, I like the caneing thing!!!
04-03-2008, 07:24 AM
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RE: Child molesters in the AMA ?
Caning is corporal punishment, I got mixed feelings about it, its meant to be a deterrent and based on the notion of retribution, its very harsh and some men rather trade 1 extra year in jail for each stroke. The skin breaks and most offenders only take 2-3 strokes per session only. A doctor is around to monitor the punishment being meted out.
Most are deterred but not first timers etc (they don't think of the consequences at times) and some repeat offenders, who only God knows why they will not change. Its truly hard to say hanging will totally deter or caning will ensure no repeats. In my country drug trafficking is a hanging offence and yes its a real deterrent, we have less drug trafficking cases nowadays for sure. I guess we have to teach our kids to be smarter and do our best to protect them. Again, not at the cost of another's liberty that is granted by the law. There is no hard and fast rule.
Many years ago a US kid in Singapore went on a car spraying spree, he sprayed a lot of luxury cars for fun. He was caught and sentenced to 8 strokes. The funny thing was a lot of the people in the US said let him be canned and that it was good! However I guess the strokes were mere taps as he got all 8 in one session.
Most are deterred but not first timers etc (they don't think of the consequences at times) and some repeat offenders, who only God knows why they will not change. Its truly hard to say hanging will totally deter or caning will ensure no repeats. In my country drug trafficking is a hanging offence and yes its a real deterrent, we have less drug trafficking cases nowadays for sure. I guess we have to teach our kids to be smarter and do our best to protect them. Again, not at the cost of another's liberty that is granted by the law. There is no hard and fast rule.
Many years ago a US kid in Singapore went on a car spraying spree, he sprayed a lot of luxury cars for fun. He was caught and sentenced to 8 strokes. The funny thing was a lot of the people in the US said let him be canned and that it was good! However I guess the strokes were mere taps as he got all 8 in one session.
04-03-2008, 07:25 AM
#53
RE: Child molesters in the AMA ?
This on may be a difficult topic to keep within the rules RCU has established for this RC site. I am willing to leave it open for now, but remember that RCU does not allow political discussions. Please stay away from political topics.
04-03-2008, 10:43 AM
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RE: Child molesters in the AMA ?
ORIGINAL: chashint
Well what about the molestor that has not been identified .... could be anyone at any place or time if given the opportunity (even someone in your own family) .... its in all of the churches, the schools, the little league, the boy scouts, ymca ... any place there is kids is where it is at ... if someone has been identified at least you can keep an eye on them ...
There may very well be members in any club that are child molestors, swingers, homosexual, those commiting adultry, or whatever ...
Are you going to start doing background checks on all perspective new members ?
What about the existing membership ?
Maybe put a question on the membership application about it ?
Keep a level head, keep an eye on the guy, but most importantly keep an eye on your kids at all times.
I wouldn't associate with the guy but I would not ban him from the club either.
Well what about the molestor that has not been identified .... could be anyone at any place or time if given the opportunity (even someone in your own family) .... its in all of the churches, the schools, the little league, the boy scouts, ymca ... any place there is kids is where it is at ... if someone has been identified at least you can keep an eye on them ...
There may very well be members in any club that are child molestors, swingers, homosexual, those commiting adultry, or whatever ...
Are you going to start doing background checks on all perspective new members ?
What about the existing membership ?
Maybe put a question on the membership application about it ?
Keep a level head, keep an eye on the guy, but most importantly keep an eye on your kids at all times.
I wouldn't associate with the guy but I would not ban him from the club either.
Surely you didn't just equate homosexuals to child molesters. I had hoped people had become more enlightened. Also notice that in your list of offences, only child molestation (more specifically sexual assault on a minor) is the only act that is illegal.
04-03-2008, 11:55 AM
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RE: Child molesters in the AMA ?
ORIGINAL: Dorsal
Let's pose another question. Another member is an alcoholic and while driving drunk one evening hit a pedestrian and killed her. He was tried and sentenced to 5 years for involuntary manslaughter, and has served his time. Now he wants into our club. Shall we let this drunken killer join?
Let's pose another question. Another member is an alcoholic and while driving drunk one evening hit a pedestrian and killed her. He was tried and sentenced to 5 years for involuntary manslaughter, and has served his time. Now he wants into our club. Shall we let this drunken killer join?
The 1st problem with your argument is that a terms of a "drunken killer's" probation usually don't involve restricting them from activities around the general public. Convicted child molesters almost always on a permanat sex offender regestry that anyone can look up and have severe restrictins on where they can live and what kind of puplic places they are not allowed in....
The other part i see is that a being "drunken killer" is not a completly voulntary act. Yes the person chose to drink and they may choose to drive but the results the drinking and driving are still an "accident". Rarely is a drunk convicted of outright murder, it's usually the involuntary manslaughter which you mentioned. That term in it's self procludes that it was a planned act. Molesters on the other had are completly in coltrol of their actions all the way from the picking of the target to the commiting of the indecent act...
So to me a drunken murderer should not be resricted from joining a club but yes a molester should be....
04-03-2008, 12:59 PM
#58
RE: Child molesters in the AMA ?
Denying AMA membership? He!!, if someone applies for AMA membership and sends in money, they don't verify anything. A convicted sex offender, or someone convicted of ANY crime can apply for AMA membership from their jail cell! I could send in an application for AMA for my dog. How will AMA know. Someone could send in an application for each of their split personalities, how would the AMA know.
Who knows how many convicted sex offenders are in your clubs? How many clubs even bother to perform any type of identification verification? With most, if not vertually all clubs, the only thing that is required is a filled out application, and dues paid. I'm sure that there are a lot of clubs where it can be a challange to get someone to take on the responsibility of keeping track of membership, let alone start doing background checks.
On the other hand, I've never heard of a case of child molestation involving RC in any way. Most clubs requre an adult to be present with a minor flying anyway. And if they don't, they should. Clubs have a hard enough time keeping Joe Shmoe from flying over the pits, or hovering over the runway, or not flying the pattern, or (insert your local club problem here), let alone trying to police people because of their backgrounds. If you try and rely on the AMA or your local club to protect your kids, you're going to be disappointed.
Doing background checks and preventing people with criminal history from working in places where parents surrender guardianship, like at a school, hospital, day care, or public transportation, makes absolute sense. That's different than a private club and club events. A child should not be allowed to attend club functions or facilities without adult supervision. Ultimately, the protection of a minor is up to the minor's guardian. not a private club.
Scott
Who knows how many convicted sex offenders are in your clubs? How many clubs even bother to perform any type of identification verification? With most, if not vertually all clubs, the only thing that is required is a filled out application, and dues paid. I'm sure that there are a lot of clubs where it can be a challange to get someone to take on the responsibility of keeping track of membership, let alone start doing background checks.
On the other hand, I've never heard of a case of child molestation involving RC in any way. Most clubs requre an adult to be present with a minor flying anyway. And if they don't, they should. Clubs have a hard enough time keeping Joe Shmoe from flying over the pits, or hovering over the runway, or not flying the pattern, or (insert your local club problem here), let alone trying to police people because of their backgrounds. If you try and rely on the AMA or your local club to protect your kids, you're going to be disappointed.
Doing background checks and preventing people with criminal history from working in places where parents surrender guardianship, like at a school, hospital, day care, or public transportation, makes absolute sense. That's different than a private club and club events. A child should not be allowed to attend club functions or facilities without adult supervision. Ultimately, the protection of a minor is up to the minor's guardian. not a private club.
Scott
04-03-2008, 01:43 PM
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RE: Child molesters in the AMA ?
ORIGINAL: saramos
Denying AMA membership? He!!, if someone applies for AMA membership and sends in money, they don't verify anything. A convicted sex offender, or someone convicted of ANY crime can apply for AMA membership from their jail cell! I could send in an application for AMA for my dog. How will AMA know. Someone could send in an application for each of their split personalities, how would the AMA know.
Who knows how many convicted sex offenders are in your clubs? How many clubs even bother to perform any type of identification verification? With most, if not vertually all clubs, the only thing that is required is a filled out application, and dues paid. I'm sure that there are a lot of clubs where it can be a challange to get someone to take on the responsibility of keeping track of membership, let alone start doing background checks.
On the other hand, I've never heard of a case of child molestation involving RC in any way. Most clubs requre an adult to be present with a minor flying anyway. And if they don't, they should. Clubs have a hard enough time keeping Joe Shmoe from flying over the pits, or hovering over the runway, or not flying the pattern, or (insert your local club problem here), let alone trying to police people because of their backgrounds. If you try and rely on the AMA or your local club to protect your kids, you're going to be disappointed.
Doing background checks and preventing people with criminal history from working in places where parents surrender guardianship, like at a school, hospital, day care, or public transportation, makes absolute sense. That's different than a private club and club events. A child should not be allowed to attend club functions or facilities without adult supervision. Ultimately, the protection of a minor is up to the minor's guardian. not a private club.
Scott
Denying AMA membership? He!!, if someone applies for AMA membership and sends in money, they don't verify anything. A convicted sex offender, or someone convicted of ANY crime can apply for AMA membership from their jail cell! I could send in an application for AMA for my dog. How will AMA know. Someone could send in an application for each of their split personalities, how would the AMA know.
Who knows how many convicted sex offenders are in your clubs? How many clubs even bother to perform any type of identification verification? With most, if not vertually all clubs, the only thing that is required is a filled out application, and dues paid. I'm sure that there are a lot of clubs where it can be a challange to get someone to take on the responsibility of keeping track of membership, let alone start doing background checks.
On the other hand, I've never heard of a case of child molestation involving RC in any way. Most clubs requre an adult to be present with a minor flying anyway. And if they don't, they should. Clubs have a hard enough time keeping Joe Shmoe from flying over the pits, or hovering over the runway, or not flying the pattern, or (insert your local club problem here), let alone trying to police people because of their backgrounds. If you try and rely on the AMA or your local club to protect your kids, you're going to be disappointed.
Doing background checks and preventing people with criminal history from working in places where parents surrender guardianship, like at a school, hospital, day care, or public transportation, makes absolute sense. That's different than a private club and club events. A child should not be allowed to attend club functions or facilities without adult supervision. Ultimately, the protection of a minor is up to the minor's guardian. not a private club.
Scott
One caveat, Clubs should not list information about minors on club rosters... and definitely DO NOT PUT THEM ON THE INTERNET!
04-03-2008, 09:54 PM
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RE: Child molesters in the AMA ?
ORIGINAL: js3
chashint,
Surely you didn't just equate homosexuals to child molesters. I had hoped people had become more enlightened. Also notice that in your list of offences, only child molestation (more specifically sexual assault on a minor) is the only act that is illegal.
ORIGINAL: chashint
Well what about the molestor that has not been identified .... could be anyone at any place or time if given the opportunity (even someone in your own family) .... its in all of the churches, the schools, the little league, the boy scouts, ymca ... any place there is kids is where it is at ... if someone has been identified at least you can keep an eye on them ...
There may very well be members in any club that are child molestors, swingers, homosexual, those commiting adultry, or whatever ...
Are you going to start doing background checks on all perspective new members ?
What about the existing membership ?
Maybe put a question on the membership application about it ?
Keep a level head, keep an eye on the guy, but most importantly keep an eye on your kids at all times.
I wouldn't associate with the guy but I would not ban him from the club either.
Well what about the molestor that has not been identified .... could be anyone at any place or time if given the opportunity (even someone in your own family) .... its in all of the churches, the schools, the little league, the boy scouts, ymca ... any place there is kids is where it is at ... if someone has been identified at least you can keep an eye on them ...
There may very well be members in any club that are child molestors, swingers, homosexual, those commiting adultry, or whatever ...
Are you going to start doing background checks on all perspective new members ?
What about the existing membership ?
Maybe put a question on the membership application about it ?
Keep a level head, keep an eye on the guy, but most importantly keep an eye on your kids at all times.
I wouldn't associate with the guy but I would not ban him from the club either.
Surely you didn't just equate homosexuals to child molesters. I had hoped people had become more enlightened. Also notice that in your list of offences, only child molestation (more specifically sexual assault on a minor) is the only act that is illegal.
If you come back and argue that being a homosexual is normal then I have nothng else I can say to you about that.
04-03-2008, 10:15 PM
#61
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RE: Child molesters in the AMA ?
ORIGINAL: saramos
Denying AMA membership? He!!, if someone applies for AMA membership and sends in money, they don't verify anything. A convicted sex offender, or someone convicted of ANY crime can apply for AMA membership from their jail cell! I could send in an application for AMA for my dog. How will AMA know. Someone could send in an application for each of their split personalities, how would the AMA know.
Who knows how many convicted sex offenders are in your clubs? How many clubs even bother to perform any type of identification verification? With most, if not vertually all clubs, the only thing that is required is a filled out application, and dues paid. I'm sure that there are a lot of clubs where it can be a challange to get someone to take on the responsibility of keeping track of membership, let alone start doing background checks.
On the other hand, I've never heard of a case of child molestation involving RC in any way. Most clubs requre an adult to be present with a minor flying anyway. And if they don't, they should. Clubs have a hard enough time keeping Joe Shmoe from flying over the pits, or hovering over the runway, or not flying the pattern, or (insert your local club problem here), let alone trying to police people because of their backgrounds. If you try and rely on the AMA or your local club to protect your kids, you're going to be disappointed.
Doing background checks and preventing people with criminal history from working in places where parents surrender guardianship, like at a school, hospital, day care, or public transportation, makes absolute sense. That's different than a private club and club events. A child should not be allowed to attend club functions or facilities without adult supervision. Ultimately, the protection of a minor is up to the minor's guardian. not a private club.
Scott
Denying AMA membership? He!!, if someone applies for AMA membership and sends in money, they don't verify anything. A convicted sex offender, or someone convicted of ANY crime can apply for AMA membership from their jail cell! I could send in an application for AMA for my dog. How will AMA know. Someone could send in an application for each of their split personalities, how would the AMA know.
Who knows how many convicted sex offenders are in your clubs? How many clubs even bother to perform any type of identification verification? With most, if not vertually all clubs, the only thing that is required is a filled out application, and dues paid. I'm sure that there are a lot of clubs where it can be a challange to get someone to take on the responsibility of keeping track of membership, let alone start doing background checks.
On the other hand, I've never heard of a case of child molestation involving RC in any way. Most clubs requre an adult to be present with a minor flying anyway. And if they don't, they should. Clubs have a hard enough time keeping Joe Shmoe from flying over the pits, or hovering over the runway, or not flying the pattern, or (insert your local club problem here), let alone trying to police people because of their backgrounds. If you try and rely on the AMA or your local club to protect your kids, you're going to be disappointed.
Doing background checks and preventing people with criminal history from working in places where parents surrender guardianship, like at a school, hospital, day care, or public transportation, makes absolute sense. That's different than a private club and club events. A child should not be allowed to attend club functions or facilities without adult supervision. Ultimately, the protection of a minor is up to the minor's guardian. not a private club.
Scott
04-03-2008, 10:27 PM
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RE: Child molesters in the AMA ?
Tommygun , my father had nearly the same thing happen to him, from a woman whose brat my mother was babysitting (and never got paid for the 7 months prior to the date of the accusation). Two years and $110,000 in legal fees later, my dad went to jail for another 6 years! We could never find another lawyer to press for the appeal, although one of them reviewed the transcripts and clearly identified over 100 broken points of law (procedural and evidentially) and he said nearly half of them were grounds to declare a mistrial. Basically they were all afraid of the public's opinion of their reputation, despite the legal issues.
My father served the time but died of cancer a couple years later, before anything could be changed with the ruling.
btw, we learned this woman had filed the same charges against TWO other men in the years prior to filing charges against my father. It seems she thinks everyone is molesting her child (whose own doctor testified there was NO physical evidence the child had EVER been molested)(a declaration that was ignored in the courtroom proceedings).
Justice comes at the end of a checkbook, and if you reach the end of your checkbook too soon . . . .
My father served the time but died of cancer a couple years later, before anything could be changed with the ruling.
btw, we learned this woman had filed the same charges against TWO other men in the years prior to filing charges against my father. It seems she thinks everyone is molesting her child (whose own doctor testified there was NO physical evidence the child had EVER been molested)(a declaration that was ignored in the courtroom proceedings).
Justice comes at the end of a checkbook, and if you reach the end of your checkbook too soon . . . .
04-03-2008, 10:54 PM
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RE: Child molesters in the AMA ?
Dorsal - as someone from the legal profession I must say that that was really sad, oh man, it like something from a movie. I am sorry to hear all that ... so sorry ...
04-03-2008, 11:08 PM
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RE: Child molesters in the AMA ?
How many convicted felons of all types are AMA members and local club members? Probably more than a few. As stated before, if the check clears youget your AMA card regardless of your background.
In the specific example in the original post, at least they know the situation and can keep an eye on it.
What about the drug addict in the next pit stall who robs houses (potentially yours with all of your cool toys) to support the habit?
Anyone present at the club, who is under 18, should be accompanied by a parent or guardian. If there is an issue related to a child, a responsible party needs to be there to take care of it.
In the specific example in the original post, at least they know the situation and can keep an eye on it.
What about the drug addict in the next pit stall who robs houses (potentially yours with all of your cool toys) to support the habit?
Anyone present at the club, who is under 18, should be accompanied by a parent or guardian. If there is an issue related to a child, a responsible party needs to be there to take care of it.
04-04-2008, 11:17 AM
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RE: Child molesters in the AMA ?
I think this issue is more in the venue of the club, make all members aware and make sure that nothing takes place at your field. This includes any "trolling" this person may be involved with. If the person is doing right no problem...........
All too often these types are looking for the right situation to work into. I have seen this happen many times in the past, deny them any opportunity whenever you can. Your local Law Enforcement may be helpful.
It's about saving a kid and yes the system is abused at times, no doubt. Done properly you can keep it below the radar and yet accomplish the goal.
All too often these types are looking for the right situation to work into. I have seen this happen many times in the past, deny them any opportunity whenever you can. Your local Law Enforcement may be helpful.
It's about saving a kid and yes the system is abused at times, no doubt. Done properly you can keep it below the radar and yet accomplish the goal.
04-04-2008, 04:57 PM
#66
RE: Child molesters in the AMA ?
The club is a club, there is no reason to allow someone as a member if the majority of the members don't want him. If a club does vote a convicted child moelester in as a member then I wouldn't want to be a member of that club, not only because of the molester but also because there are all the jerks that voted him in, people I wouldn't want to be around. And to be honest with you If any members did vote for a molester in my club i would have to think about bringing up a vote to kick them out as well, come on people there is no place in this world for child molesters, absolutely zero tolerance. They are the scum of the scum. As far as law enforcement and the legal system I think they are doing an outstanding job rounding up these perverts. There are also organazations out there that keep us informed as to their wherabouts and in many areas they have to register with the police. All of this is much better than just a few years ago.
04-04-2008, 08:59 PM
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RE: Child molesters in the AMA ?
After 56 post ,the starter of the post never chimed in.Most likely he has been watching the comments.So Richard058 why not post the name of the person you are talking about?????????????????????Dorsal,I'm truly sadden for you and your family,lawyers are scum,this is why we need to buy more guns,powder.primers,bullets.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!pub
04-05-2008, 07:27 AM
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RE: Child molesters in the AMA ?
All we need to straighten out this world,( besides getting rid of at least half the lawyers), is a handfull of bullets & a bucket full of common sense or is it a bucketfull of bullets and a handfull of common sense!!! edit # 1: make that 3/4 of the lawyers edit #2: what the heck,-- let's get rid of all of the lieyers, uh, I mean lawyers!!!
04-05-2008, 10:19 AM
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RE: Child molesters in the AMA ?
I believe the two most despicable crimes in our society committed by the most despicable people in our society are pushing drugs to kids and sexually molesting kids.
I believe the people who commit those crimes need to be taken out of our society.
I'm not really crazy about the thought of our tax dollars keeping these scum bags in cages, up to $30,000.00 annually each (maybe more now.)
Not sure what options that leaves us.
Therein lies the dilemma I wrestle with.
I believe the people who commit those crimes need to be taken out of our society.
I'm not really crazy about the thought of our tax dollars keeping these scum bags in cages, up to $30,000.00 annually each (maybe more now.)
Not sure what options that leaves us.
Therein lies the dilemma I wrestle with.
04-05-2008, 10:55 AM
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RE: Child molesters in the AMA ?
Wow, this is a tricky one. I am a big believer in forgiveness due to my christian beliefs. However, forgiveness can not put another child in danger of this happening to them. I guess my opinion would be that the flying field might be a really good place for this guy. If the members know his history, they can keep an eye on him. I would rather him there putting his efforts into this great hobby and hanging out with "good" guys than out oggling children.
Does this make sense? I think what he did is despicable, and odds are he is not fully rehabilitated. However, ousting him from the club may do more to hurt the problem than help it. If the goal here is to make sure he never does this to another child again then shunning him will not get you any closer to this goal.
Does this make sense? I think what he did is despicable, and odds are he is not fully rehabilitated. However, ousting him from the club may do more to hurt the problem than help it. If the goal here is to make sure he never does this to another child again then shunning him will not get you any closer to this goal.
