Richard058

My Feedback: (11)

Here is a problem that I have not seen addressed, a long time club member is arrested and convicted of molesting two girls under the age of 12 years. Due to plea bargaining between the prosecutors office and girls family (grand children of molester) the judge could only sentence him to one year in the county Jail, judge said he should have gotten life!

The problem is that when he got out of jail and on parole (5Years) he shows back up at the club flying field and figures that he will just continue on in the club. After some debate in the club about if we should allow him in. (he had supporters). The night of the vote, he decided to with draw his request for membership.

This man is still a member of the AMA and can and I believe does attend events and fun flies and maybe has even joined another club(s) who does not know of his past because he is still an AMA member. Most of our clubs are family oriented and work with other civic groups such as Boy Scouts, Schools, and Civic events where there and a lot of kids involved.

My question is, when and if the AMA is advised that a current or applying member is a convicted CHILD MOLESTER, should they be allowed to be a member of the AMA?

MustangRay

My Feedback: (7)

A Queer is a Queer! Tell him to move on and AMA should do background checks to keep us safe!

Dorsal

My Feedback: (17)

Let's pose another question. Another member is an alcoholic and while driving drunk one evening hit a pedestrian and killed her. He was tried and sentenced to 5 years for involuntary manslaughter, and has served his time. Now he wants into our club. Shall we let this drunken killer join?

Ron Olson

My Feedback: (1)

That's the problem when you get around any group of people, you don't know what their history is. I don't know if there are some kind of weird pervert next to me in the pits or on the drivers stand at a race. Even fellow workers you don't know what kind of secret lives they have. I've worked with one older man at work, a really nice person but didn't know that he too was molesting 2 girls under the age of 13. I was shocked to see it in the news. I've also worked with 2 people who ended up by being murderers, both had screws loose but didn't think that they'd go to that extreme. One killed his estranged wife's boyfriend and the other killed his wife and mother-in-law.

Is it something that this site should be involved in? That's a tough one but I'd lean towards not having it here. This is something that the club should have to deal with.

gi8u2racing

My Feedback: (11)

First off, if the guy admits to all this nonsense of his past, he is probably trying to start a new life. I know a friend who has a not-so-great past that is now one of the most helpful and nicest people I know, and is heavily in the hobby. He got into the hobby right after all of this, too. I don't think we can hog our hobby to only people with perfect pasts.

Cryhavoc

My Feedback: (46)

Let's get back on subject. We're talking about a Child Molester. Period. I doubt that the drunken driver woman killer can do that at a flying field or event. I think all fields have a no alcohol policy or should. If you've been convicted of a crime you should be able to redeem yourself and you should redeem yourself to your fellow man. However, at present there is not a professional out there that treats people for Child Molestation that has EVER been able to stand up and say "This person's cured". Just from those facts most governments brand you for life because you cannot be pronounced cured. Just because of the FACTS and not a "I think" or "you think" platform/opinion, uncureable child molesters should NOT be allowed in our midst. I want to focus my attention upon airplane safety and performance when I'm with my 4 children at the flying field. I don't wish to have to guard against an attack or intrusion by one of these type of people.

Foxy

Even given that the nature of the offense is perceived to be an affliction to those who do it, and that they will never change and can't 'get better', the fact still stands that he was convicted in court, no doubt admitted it, was sentenced, served his sentence, was released (on parole) and according to the US justice system, is a rehabilitated citizen.

Lets be careful we are not returning to medieval times and forming a witch hunt. I once stole a candy bar from a shop, was caught, my parents were called, I was severely punished, and never did it again. Maybe he also has learned his lesson? Unlikely, but eminently possible.

1 year in prison may not be a lot, but you try it and see how you like it (no, I've never been, to know what it's like, but I bet it's no picnic, especially for a sex offender).

Everyone deserves a second chance if they are prepared to admit their mistake, but not a third. My 2c.

ghost-RCU

My Feedback: (10)

As the President of a club I vote absolutely not. we have several young members from 9 to 17 years old. Everyone in the club is provided a membership roster with names, addresses, phone numbers, & email addresses. If a convicted sex offender would happen to get in our club that info would need to go away, & I feel it would be my obligation to tell everyone in the club about this person. I would not want to take a chance with someone like this with the young people in our club. NO THANKS!

khodges

My Feedback: (1)

Unless you have something written in your club's by-laws that convicted felons are not eligible for club membership, then I don't think you could have any grounds for keeping him out of the club, unless maybe a popular vote against admission when he wants to rejoin after a lapsed membership. A lot of people have skeletons in their closets, and we haven't a clue what those skeletons are or who has them; they may be your best flying pal. If you try to exclude someone based on a personal opinion of their transgression, they have the right to scream "FOUL" and say you're violating their civil rights. Try to defend that and you can waste a lot of time.

I think that particular problem would take care of itself in short order; too many people will be very conscious of what he's been doing and tend to shun him, whether intentionally or not, and he'll probably quit coming. Personally, I'd rather not associate with someone who is a known molester, but as long as he didn't mess with me while I'm trying to fly, I'd have no reason to club him unconscious.

Dr1Driver

Being a child molestor does not preclude the ability or desire to fly R/C. However, it usually DOES preclude ANY involvement with youngsters under a certain age. Most child molestors are on more-or-less permanent probation and have court orders to stay away from children.

Be that as it may, I wouldn't want him in my club, but if he exhibits no current behavior what would prohibit his membership following current club by-laws, you'll be hard-pressed (legally) to exclude him.

Dr.1

PS Unfortunately, despite probation and rehabilitation, most child molestors do not change their spots.

Cryhavoc

My Feedback: (46)

First, upon release from the U.S. Justice System, you're not rehabilitated. You've merely served your sentence and obligation to society. By their own admission, the Justice Systems makes no promises of rehabilitation. In this country this is considered be one of the more serious offenses you are required to register as a sex offender where ever you go and National, State & Local databases are maintained for this purpose.

Punishment and rehabilitation are two of the four acknowledged objectives of the criminal justice system, with deterrence and incapacitation being the others. It is accepted in that field of study that deterrence, incapacitation and punishment are primary due to the overwhelming failure of the Justice System to rehabilitate all but a VERY few inmates. There are zero (0) records indicating a rehabilitated sexual predator. Practically all therapists agree that long term treatment can have only some effect. The main deterrent is removal of opportunity which accomplishes the obvious, the lack of desire.

As for medieval times and witch hunts, it would be my hope that society, as diverse as it is, is beyond being able to even initiate one of those except for on a very localized basis. That said, anything is possible, so when the push comes to shove, I won't be standing on the side that's protecting pedophiles.

Also, thanks for making me think about this. I will be running background checks, that are available in almost every state, on all new applicants.

Nice debate, (an do I love a good debate) but bottom line on my behalf and at my field. He's not welcome, nor will he ever be.

chashint

Well what about the molestor that has not been identified .... could be anyone at any place or time if given the opportunity (even someone in your own family) .... its in all of the churches, the schools, the little league, the boy scouts, ymca ... any place there is kids is where it is at ... if someone has been identified at least you can keep an eye on them ...
There may very well be members in any club that are child molestors, swingers, homosexual, those commiting adultry, or whatever ...
Are you going to start doing background checks on all perspective new members ?
What about the existing membership ?
Maybe put a question on the membership application about it ?
Keep a level head, keep an eye on the guy, but most importantly keep an eye on your kids at all times.
I wouldn't associate with the guy but I would not ban him from the club either.

Red Scholefield

My Feedback: (9)

Considering the recidivism rate it would be prudent for the AMA to pull this guys card. Not the kind we would like to take a chance with getting involved in our youth programs.

Cryhavoc

My Feedback: (46)

What are we talking about here? Think about it. CNN Headline: Convicted Child Predator Kidnaps Child at AMA Sanctioned Flying Field, Search Continues." Do we really want to defend the rights of a handful of these pieces of Sh*t and get a bloody nose for it? It wouldn't take but one infraction for it to make the news. There are many possible situations. Frankly, they can keep their dues, I'll cut dat grass fer free!

Red Scholefield

My Feedback: (9)

OK, let him have a second chance . . . . . with your kids/grand kids/great grandkids . . . . . . NOT MINE! [:@] It is just simply not worth the risk. If a club knowing lets this guy back are they liable if he "falls in love again"? Would the AMA insurance cover them in case the parents of the child are not too thrilled?

Foxy

If he did it to my kids, I would not be responsible for my actions, but that's not what we're talking about here. We are discussing passing sentence on someone who has already paid for his crime, although lightly, even though we ourselves have not been wronged. We are taking it upon ourselves to judge him a second time. Who are you all that have the right to do that? Be careful how you approach these kinds of social issues, or you'll be out on the streets with your shotguns and calling each other Jeb.

I simply disagree with the fact that a person can't change, even a sex-offender. I made it clear in my post above that I know they 'usually' reoffend, but not always. You have to give people that chance, no matter what they've done. Otherwise, what's the point? They haven't learned anything. It would be like executing people for the crime on the first time. Don't forget how you would feel if you couldn't do what you love the most because of an (admittedly evil) transgression that you committed and paid for in the past, and have no intention of committing again. How hard done by would you feel? How about the AMA ban drunk drivers? That ruins just as many lives, if not a whole hell of a lot more. What has more impact int he long term? A child of 12 being molested? Or a child of 12 losing both parents OR BOTH LEGS to a drunk driver. Think about it.

outdoorhunting

What has the most effect 12 yr old being molested or the actions of a drunk driver?? Ask a 15 yr old kid that was molested at 12!!!!!! I have a real good friend who's wife was molested when she was 13. She says that she STILL SEES HIS FACE. She's an awfully strong gal but sometimes you can see the pain on her face & she is 45 now!!!!!!! For me to answer the question; what would you do if you found out a "convicted, served his time sex offender "was in our club? I wouldn't say a word to anyone. I would catch him by himself & I would "explain" to him why he doesn't want to be in our club.If he said he STILL wanted to be in our club; I WOULD DEMONSTRATE WHAT WOULD HAPPEN TO HIM. If he complained about it (law) I would pay my bail. I would think that that would be a whole lot easier than trying to explain to a fellow member that got his daughter or son molested by him !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! For the (do-gooders) out there that say; What about his rights? Which is more important, his rights or the 12 yr old's? If something like that happened in the earier days the neighbors would take care of him. He wouldn't do it again. I think that would've been a pretty good time to live in. That's my 2c

daveopam

My Feedback: (9)

I can't remember who said what but here goes. First comparing a molester or sex offender to any other criminal is wrong. There is something wrong with you if a child arouses you. This is a mental problem that no jail time can cure. I also do not want him/her around my club. This is a family based hobby for a lot of people. Any place that has kids around should not have a convicted offender around.

I am done because my hands are shaking with anger and my mind can't make a clear point. The stats are like 3 in 10 men and 6 in 10 woman were victomised as kids. Chances are someone reading this falls in those states. Tell one of them you want this person around. They deserve another chance.

David

Drakyl

I'm all for running him out of the country, not just the club.

ghost-RCU

My Feedback: (10)

I could care less about a sex offenders rights. Maybe the offender should have thought about the consequences before he committed the crime. The safety & welfare of the Club members comes before any sex offenders rights & if I'm violating the Law then screw the law. I'm going to do whats best for the members that elected me.

Hibrass

My Feedback: (1)

If I was to learn of a convicted child molester at my club I would do everything in my power to have him legaly removed... I take my two sons 7 and 9 and my flying buddy takes his grandson who is 8. Failing to have him removed, I would find another place to fly...

On a slightly different tacked, one of our club members is the father of a recently convicted molester, the father is so depressed and embarassed that he doesn't even fly anymore, even though I don't believe he is in anyway responsible for the behavior of his son... (The whole affair has just about destroyed their family and extended family, not to mention what it has done to the families of the molested children.)

Ed "Hibrass" Harley

Foxy

I think some of these knee-jerk reactions are downright ridiculous and belay a character not becoming of a modern civilised individual. Shame, I have such high hopes for the human race. Someone is sick, so run them out of the country. Nice.

I'm out... when the few voices of reason are drowned out by the shouts of "Barabbus!", it's better to let the madding throng just get on with it and sacrifice the lamb. Burn the witch, you go guys. Who needs a justice system anyway, only gets in the way of justice, right? Where's the mercy, where's the forgiveness? So much for bible belt. I don't remember an amendment where if you get convicted of a crime, you lose all your rights in society. Don't worry, you'll hear no more from me on this matter.

Red Scholefield

My Feedback: (9)

If we HAD a justice system we would not be having this conversation! [>:]

Dorsal

My Feedback: (17)

Unfortunately, most of you seem to believe those convicted of a crime are actually guilty. Convicting "child molesters" has become such a proven hot track to political success, that all semblance of constitutional rights, jurisprudence and justice have been thrown out of the courtrooms by the lawyers. Convict 5 molesters, next step: Judge!
Whether you believe me doesn't matter, I have seen it happen. And that is why, when 2 girls collided their bicycles in front of my driveway one day, leaving them both crying and bleeding, I walked into the house to find my wife and told her about the accident. I will NOT help a child, because if that little brat's mommy gets it into her head that she can extort money from me, she might convince the child to "remember" things that never happened.

Red Scholefield

My Feedback: (9)

If convicting "child molesters" has become such a proven hot track to political success, tell us why there are so many repeat offenders.

I keep thinking of Jessica Lunsford.