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  1. #726
    Nitro-Tom's Avatar
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    RE: Don Muddiman Flying Machine


    ORIGINAL: Quikturn

    How about licensing the plans to smaller kit manufacturers like AK-Models in Iowa City, IA. I've met Alex personally, he gave me the tour when I picked up a kit from him in the past, he has a computerized lazer cutter and even cuts his own balsa stock. I'm sure he would be happy to have the business.

    To be honest, there is probably a small market for this kit and to get a large manufacturer involved with it is a tough sell. Maybe a smaller manufacturer or kit cutter can make a small volume venture work.

    Just a thought.

    I like it, I too have talked to AK and they are first class shop IMHO!

    I have many kits from them on the radar and even some cutom work, such as cutting the .60 Flying Machine I am building with the plans I got from Don!

    I knew this ARF is a major project, as EAST has tried, etc....things take time, thus the term "Slow Boat From China" [X(] (Can't believe I went there)

    Anyway, I look forward to the ARF EAST, DON, AND CONDOOR have worked so hard to bring to us, if it ever comes up I will nail 2 of them right off......however I need to get Cutting on my .60 size and have Joel build me another .40 for my Rossi so I can rip it up with Rich at Markham!

    -Standing by, peace out!
    Nitro - Tom
    General R/C Addict

  2. #727
    ovationdave's Avatar
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    RE: Don Muddiman Flying Machine


    ORIGINAL: Tweek

    Guys...many thousands of dollars have been dumped into this project over the last few years by two players in this group. While it's nice to try and keep folks updated, it's really none of your business unless you've poured your blood and $$ into it. It' not some sort of ''right'' to be informed of the progress by this private business who is working on this item to sell. This stuff isn't cheap nor easy, so step back, take a deep breath, and let them work on this. Heckling, jabbing, making supposition, etc doesn't help nor speed things up or change the end result.

    Geeze. Whatever. This is exactlty why East R/C will NEVER get any of my business. 'Nuff said.

    The people following this thread have been ULTRA PATIENT with the empty promises and visions of grandure that were promised by the same folks who broke those promises. We didn't demand anything? We were hopeful. Bottom line, don't promise what you can't deliver, then get upset when people hold you to your word. Funny, but that doesn't work with my boss either.

    Just glad I bought a short kit. Which I hope is made available for those who actually like building.

    Thanks for a Great Design Don......however this pans out, its still a favorite.

    Dave
    I have not failed. I\'\'\'\'ve just found 10,000 ways that don\'\'\'\'t work - Thomas A. Edison

    Sig Kadet Brotherhood member #18

  3. #728

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    RE: Don Muddiman Flying Machine


    ORIGINAL: ovationdave


    ORIGINAL: Tweek

    Guys...many thousands of dollars have been dumped into this project over the last few years by two players in this group. While it's nice to try and keep folks updated, it's really none of your business unless you've poured your blood and $$ into it. It' not some sort of ''right'' to be informed of the progress by this private business who is working on this item to sell. This stuff isn't cheap nor easy, so step back, take a deep breath, and let them work on this. Heckling, jabbing, making supposition, etc doesn't help nor speed things up or change the end result.

    Geeze. Whatever. This is exactlty why East R/C will NEVER get any of my business. 'Nuff said.

    The people following this thread have been ULTRA PATIENT with the empty promises and visions of grandure that were promised by the same folks who broke those promises. We didn't demand anything? We were hopeful. Bottom line, don't promise what you can't deliver, then get upset when people hold you to your word. Funny, but that doesn't work with my boss either.

    Just glad I bought a short kit. Which I hope is made available for those who actually like building.

    Thanks for a Great Design Don......however this pans out, its still a favorite.

    Dave

    +1

    Well stated from another Dave who will also never buy anything from East RC, but is still holding out for a slim chance that Condor will eventually come through with the Flying Machine ARF.

    My first and only Flying Machine was scratch built from plans I bought from Don many years ago. I still have a kit laying around, but can't build it due to CA and balsa allergies I've developed after too many years of building. That's why bringing the ARF to market is so important to me.
    McDDD
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  4. #729
    Tweek's Avatar
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    RE: Don Muddiman Flying Machine

    You guys are too funny, letting model airplane that you haven't bought yet, get you worked up like this. I am one of the guys who put several thousand $ in this project and handed it over for gratis to the next person (Condor) to invest in and continue work on the project when we could continue no longer invest in it. It does take a lot of work and even more money, and I appreciate that.

    To the two Dave's: I'm not asking for either of you to buy anything from East RC, don't know where that came from, but I don't care, either... that's what a few thousand $$ gets me :-) . This wasn't an East RC advertisement. Besides that, that company is managed my my son and is running fine without your support or feedback.

    To respond to someone else (don't remember who) about the customer is always right... I've been in business a long time, and the customer is not always right. They're very often not right. Bending over backwards and pretending they are might make some happy, but it typically lengthens the line of those folks standing in line with their hands out for freebies, discounts, and warranty coverage on things for damage is are caused by themselves. The customer is also not a customer until they have bought something, which I don't think anyone here has. My opinion (which is just that, _my opinion_ and not one formed by the hive) is what I said, unless you have a dog in this fight you have no room to talk smack and demand anything from those on the development side of the fence. While a business owner tries to bite their lip and deal with that aspect of dealing with the public, there comes a time when you can take it no longer. I don't have to "rethink my position post haste" as another said, it's my opinion and I'm welcome to it.

    Flamesuit on, this is my last post on the topic. Throw all the mud you can my way, I don't care. I'm not going to respond, I have nothing to prove. You're all welcome to your own opinions, as am I.

  5. #730

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    RE: Don Muddiman Flying Machine

    ill rip with you ANYTIME Tom!

    -rich

  6. #731
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    RE: Don Muddiman Flying Machine

    Maybe we'll get lucky. The more I work at something, the luckier I get!

  7. #732
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    RE: Don Muddiman Flying Machine


    ORIGINAL: Dave McDonald


    ORIGINAL: ovationdave


    ORIGINAL: Tweek

    Guys...many thousands of dollars have been dumped into this project over the last few years by two players in this group. While it's nice to try and keep folks updated, it's really none of your business unless you've poured your blood and $$ into it. It' not some sort of ''right'' to be informed of the progress by this private business who is working on this item to sell. This stuff isn't cheap nor easy, so step back, take a deep breath, and let them work on this. Heckling, jabbing, making supposition, etc doesn't help nor speed things up or change the end result.

    Geeze. Whatever. This is exactlty why East R/C will NEVER get any of my business. 'Nuff said.

    The people following this thread have been ULTRA PATIENT with the empty promises and visions of grandure that were promised by the same folks who broke those promises. We didn't demand anything? We were hopeful. Bottom line, don't promise what you can't deliver, then get upset when people hold you to your word. Funny, but that doesn't work with my boss either.

    Just glad I bought a short kit. Which I hope is made available for those who actually like building.

    Thanks for a Great Design Don......however this pans out, its still a favorite.

    Dave

    +1

    Well stated from another Dave who will also never buy anything from East RC, but is still holding out for a slim chance that Condor will eventually come through with the Flying Machine ARF.

    My first and only Flying Machine was scratch built from plans I bought from Don many years ago. I still have a kit laying around, but can't build it due to CA and balsa allergies I've developed after too many years of building. That's why bringing the ARF to market is so important to me.
    How much $$$ you askin for that kit dave?
    Biplane bro!

  8. #733
    ovationdave's Avatar
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    RE: Don Muddiman Flying Machine

    Sorry Constrictor, I have it mostly built. I am in Mexico now for work, but when I get back I need to finish it up. I will post pics when done..... :-)
    I have not failed. I\'\'\'\'ve just found 10,000 ways that don\'\'\'\'t work - Thomas A. Edison

    Sig Kadet Brotherhood member #18

  9. #734
    Constrictor's Avatar
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    RE: Don Muddiman Flying Machine


    ORIGINAL: ovationdave

    Sorry Constrictor, I have it mostly built. I am in Mexico now for work, but when I get back I need to finish it up. I will post pics when done..... :-)
    i was speaking to the man that said he had a kit. my old buddy dave mcddd!
    Biplane bro!

  10. #735

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    RE: Don Muddiman Flying Machine

    Sorry Steve, the FM kit isn't for sale right now.
    McDDD
    ProBro 415

  11. #736
    Constrictor's Avatar
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    RE: Don Muddiman Flying Machine


    ORIGINAL: Dave McDonald

    Sorry Steve, the FM kit isn't for sale right now.
    Lemme talk to your wife about it next time i see her
    Biplane bro!

  12. #737

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    RE: Don Muddiman Flying Machine

    For those who bought the plans, how long did it take to get them and how would it be for a first time scratch build?

    I have been flying for 20+ years, but have never built from plans before. Was hoping a short kit would become available...

    Thanks,
    Bill S.
    Carl Goldberg Ultimate Brotherhood #56
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  13. #738
    ovationdave's Avatar
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    RE: Don Muddiman Flying Machine

    The short kit was available for a limited time again last year (though http://lazer-works.com/list.html ) because it was taking so long to get the ARF to market. After sending e-mails to don and lazerworks, etc.., they finally agreed to a limited run of short kits. Maybe if you ask real nice, don will let them make more......who knows. Its still listed on the Lazer works website, but it says "no longer available" because supposedly the ARF is right around the corner. Still seems to me that a short kit (for those that like to build) could be made available, regardless of the status of the ARF.

    Dave
    I have not failed. I\'\'\'\'ve just found 10,000 ways that don\'\'\'\'t work - Thomas A. Edison

    Sig Kadet Brotherhood member #18

  14. #739

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    RE: Don Muddiman Flying Machine


    ORIGINAL: Twin_Flyer

    For those who bought the plans, how long did it take to get them and how would it be for a first time scratch build?

    I have been flying for 20+ years, but have never built from plans before. Was hoping a short kit would become available...

    Thanks,
    Bill S.

    Took about 3 days to get my plans. I just bought them a few weeks ago. I've looked them over, but haven't started them yet. Doesn't look too tough to me, but I've scratch build several planes in my years of flying. When I get to that point, maybe I'll do a build thread. I have 3 planes ahead of it right now, so it will be a while.

  15. #740

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    RE: Don Muddiman Flying Machine

    I built my Flying Machine from plans many years ago. If you've ever built any kit before, you won't have any problems building it from the plans. If you've never built a kit before, you might want to give that a try first before tackling building from plans.
    McDDD
    ProBro 415

  16. #741
    Muddiman's Avatar
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    RE: Don Muddiman Flying Machine

    Hey Guys,>>

    >>

    After many months of working with the overseas manufacturer, we finally completed the project with a Flying Machine ARF ready for production. Unfortunately, Condor decided not to continue with the investment. Condor did assist me pursuing other investors, but at this time I have no firm commitments. I have now acquired all rights to the Flying Machine as the contract between Condor and myself has been terminated. >>


    I’m just as disappointed as you are especially with all the time I have invested in getting a proto-type into production only to have no end product. The timing was unfortunate. If I had known this a month or so before, I could have funded the project. It’s not a large sum of money for a business to invest in, but for a working guy it’s a large chunk of change. I sit on the side lines reading all the comments and I am kind of disappointed in some of the ones I have read. I agree with Dave Hockaday. Unless you have a vested interest in this project what happens as far as the private business end is no one else’s business. I know some of you may not like what I just said, but put yourself in that same situation with your money on the line. As a business man or in your personal life there will be events that happen that are beyond your control. *****ing about it or negative comments does no one any good other than leaving a life time impression of what was said. As far as a promise of a Flying Machine ARF, there have been many proto-types that I have personally flown. My thanks go to Dave Hockaday of East R/C, Fred Culbertson of Condor and Cliff Turnbull, for without these guys investing time and money into the project it would still be just a dream. The Flying Machine ARF promise has not been broken, what has changed is the release date. It’s in the works.>>

    >>

    Don
    Don Muddiman
    www.eagle-i.us/fm

  17. #742

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    RE: Don Muddiman Flying Machine

    from the bad comes the good. time is on our side. good luck to you.
    i have ten bucks you can have if it will help.

  18. #743
    JNorton's Avatar
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    RE: Don Muddiman Flying Machine

    My best wishes to you Don. Sorry things did not work out.
    John
    Have desk ... Will Fly.... Saito Member #467
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  19. #744

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    RE: Don Muddiman Flying Machine

    Don,
    Thank you very much for letting us know about the current status of the Flying Machine ARF. While I'm disappointed that it still isn't available for sale yet, I'm very pleased that you took the time to explain what has happened over the past few months, and that the project has hopefully been postponed instead of cancelled.
    McDDD
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  20. #745
    Muddiman's Avatar
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    RE: Don Muddiman Flying Machine

    Guys,

    It's still in the works, I will not give up getting this to happen.

    Don Muddiman
    www.eagle-i.us/fm

  21. #746
    ovationdave's Avatar
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    RE: Don Muddiman Flying Machine

    Sorry to hear that Don, its too bad it didn't execute for you and all involved.

    While I know you may not care what I or anyone else thinks, the statement of "...what happens as far as the private business end is no one elseโ€™s business", then may I suggest you don't make it public next time until it is ready to hit the shelves. I just don't think you can blame the customers for feeling let down after so many promises were made over the last 4 years in this forum. Sorry, just my $0.02

    I think everyone here understands that things sometimes do not work out, I honestly hope it can come together in the future.

    In closing, I am sure many are wondering, but I have to ask if there is any possibility of entertaining a short-kit option for those folks that have been patiently waiting? There are a lot of interested people on this forum that have been very patient with arf endevor, it seems that it would be nice to offer them some relief in the form of a short-kit (that can be ready to go if you give lazer works the OK to produce them again).

    I will still be the first in line for an ARF/ARC version if they become available.

    All the best,

    Dave
    I have not failed. I\'\'\'\'ve just found 10,000 ways that don\'\'\'\'t work - Thomas A. Edison

    Sig Kadet Brotherhood member #18

  22. #747

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    RE: Don Muddiman Flying Machine

    +1 for a kit (short or full) version as well!!

    Bill S.
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  23. #748

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    RE: Don Muddiman Flying Machine




    ORIGINAL: Muddiman

    Hey Guys,>>

    >>

    After many months of working with the overseas manufacturer, we finally completed the project with a Flying Machine ARF ready for production. Unfortunately, Condor decided not to continue with the investment. Condor did assist me pursuing other investors, but at this time I have no firm commitments. I have now acquired all rights to the Flying Machine as the contract between Condor and myself has been terminated. >>


    I’m just as disappointed as you are especially with all the time I have invested in getting a proto-type into production only to have no end product. The timing was unfortunate. If I had known this a month or so before, I could have funded the project. It’s not a large sum of money for a business to invest in, but for a working guy it’s a large chunk of change. I sit on the side lines reading all the comments and I am kind of disappointed in some of the ones I have read. I agree with Dave Hockaday. Unless you have a vested interest in this project what happens as far as the private business end is no one else’s business. I know some of you may not like what I just said, but put yourself in that same situation with your money on the line. As a business man or in your personal life there will be events that happen that are beyond your control. *****ing about it or negative comments does no one any good other than leaving a life time impression of what was said. As far as a promise of a Flying Machine ARF, there have been many proto-types that I have personally flown. My thanks go to Dave Hockaday of East R/C, Fred Culbertson of Condor and Cliff Turnbull, for without these guys investing time and money into the project it would still be just a dream. The Flying Machine ARF promise has not been broken, what has changed is the release date. It’s in the works.>>

    >>

    Don

    Don, I wanted to thank you for getting me my set of plans so quickly.

    I had the pleasure of seeing you "wring out" your Flying Machine in person at the last two Byron Originals fly-ins on Byron's Estate in Ida Grove. Those memories have always stuck with me, and were the reason I bought the plans. The entire Cloud Dancers show team was a class act.

    I hope you are able to get your ARF project off the ground soon, and have sucess with it.

  24. #749

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    RE: Don Muddiman Flying Machine

    The BEST damn plane in the world and no one will build it....SAD

    Wish I had the $

  25. #750
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    RE: Don Muddiman Flying Machine


    ORIGINAL: Muddiman

    Guys,

    It's still in the works, ย*I will not give up getting this to happen.

    Don

    I have a contact and will ping him on this.

    He already has a succesful company making models and I will see if he is interested in this project.

    if he is , I will make the introductions in hopes of getting an ARF out of the deal

    we will see what happens.....I will call him Monday/Tuesday and let you know.
    Nitro - Tom
    General R/C Addict


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