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  1. #101
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    RE: An ARF Nation

    How much more time do I have to spend on this turkey( Electrified Bird of Time), structure, fitting, fiberglassing, filling, sanding, more fiberglass, more filler, more sanding, primer and painting to put it back in flying shape before it is no longer an ARF. Ref earlier post #32
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  2. #102
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    RE: An ARF Nation

    I understand bolth sides of the spectrum, some like to build and some just like to fly. I enjoy bolth, but since I grew up with parents that taught me to try and fix and do things yourself that's where the love of building came from. I believe that most that love to build grew up with the same background, why pay someone when you can do it yourself and learn how to fix it. It also tends to be the people that are always thinking of how things work and are put together that perfer to build, now-a-day's most people don't bother working on thier own cars, fixing thier own washing machines or even setting up thier own entertainment systems. It's kinda installed in your brain these days to buy it and use it until it breaks and then use the repair tech to fix it ASAP. Which brings up the other point this is all driven by, follow me on this it doesn't sound logical until it comes to facts. Inflation, yup, inflation,....I had a conversation a few days ago in my fathers garage with my dad of all people, I was changing tires over for a friend (yes he owns a tire machine, and it's in his home garage), anywho we were talking about boats and he went on about his Hemi powered hydro boat he had back in the 60's and how he called in favors from keith black for a crank and pistons and a few other well known people, infact he ended up getting the actual pipes off the hawaiian dragster and put them on the boat, I made the comment to my friend that there's a erea that's gone, personally getting stuff from big name guys because you do favors for each other. Now it's all about money, back then that hemi costed him 1500 buck to build, his 64 vett new was 3800 bucks, then I asked him how much he bought his house for and he said 25,000 but over time he spent another 25,000 for the pool and the 3 car garage and addition on the house. His mothers house bought back in the 40's costed 15,000, now the fair market value of the lake house is 215,000 and his house is around 700,000. Back then peoples incomes were good in relation to cost of living, houses were 2 or 3 times your pay, cars could be bought outright if you saved for it in a years time. But that same hemi that was in his boat would now set you back 15,000 to build, so here's the problem, cost of living and inflation is taking it's toll on everybody, houses cost 10X's + your yearly income cars cost more than a years pay, good furnature cost thousands of dollars and we all feel the squeaze of the dollar. So we all have to work harder and longer to beable to afford the things we need and want. For many people they just don't have much free time to build because they are swamped with trying to just stay afloat with the family and work to be bothered. They might want to but realize it would never get finished, I build not because I'm well off and have tons of money and free time but because I find the time when possible, I do own a few arfs, but they were for getting in the air, not for the like of thier quality. I build for the fact that I enjoy it, it's nice to just be a modeler and perform a craft and be know as being a craftsman. I try to encourage people to build for the skill's they learn while doing it, to make them slow down and enjoy the process rather than sprint to get in the air. The last time this country had a market for kits was in the early 90's, after that, the kit's faded away to arfs being the benchmark of our hobby, or should I say industry. Between all of it homes, cars, clothing, furnature, education, food and toys,....it's all alot more money in proportion to our incomes. As far as the education part,...........I'm impressed and disgusted all in one, I'm impressed when I see my much younger cousins or nephews in 6th grade speaking two languages already, but on the same token, I'm very disappointed in the current status of our public education system. One day I came home and my nieghbor was getting his son and daughter out of the car and his son was wearing his baseball uniform, I asked him who won, and his dads response was they all win, what the F! now they don't even let the kids know if they are doing well or not, it's all in fear that it might hurt some feelings and actually make the kids try harder to do better next time. That's the way it was for me growing up, if you lost, you tried harder next time, simple as that, I have another friend that his daughter is reading a level higher than her classmates, but the teacher told my friend that she's going to make her read the lower level books so his daughter doesn't make the other kids feel slow, now that's a complete crock of poop. It's even extended all the way to collage, football, if the team is so good they must stop before 50 point lead or else they could be penalized and not play for a game or two. The whole society and general thinking is askew in it's policies, we want every person to dream big and try hard to achieve it, but don't make anyone feel that they are a lesser of your knowledge or skills, so they just tone down the tests and the standards to make everone feel good by passing, heck I heard now they have a pass / fail scoring in lower grades, you don't know how well your doing, just the fact that you passed or not? Pathetic I say. But in a round about way it all links together, encourage to do better, but everyone is equal, work hard get into collage and get a better job to make more but the student loans are going to take 15 years to pay off, you work too much to pay for the over priced education, house, car and food to live and if you have anything left over, you can treat yourself to a plane, but the tools to build cost money and the arf is predone, well, life is hectic so just buy the arf and go fly. I draw the line there, it's a hobby, hobbies are something you do for enjoyment, not a cost effictive decision, it may cost more money to build or break even sometimes, but hobbies are done for fun not the cost. Sorry for the ranting but this is they way I've been collecting all the information over the years and processed it to be, I guess I think too much and link too many things together to come up with a string of events that relate to how we got to here from there years ago, but it makes sense to me, thanks for reading.
    Ray R.

  3. #103
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    RE: An ARF Nation

    Planebuilder,
    You are quite obviously a K Street Backed Mobster.
    Boy, I say Boy... Thats Not 3D Son!!!!!!
    Come Drink.. From My Pistons!

  4. #104
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    RE: An ARF Nation

    Maybe, but if I could only find my great,great grandfathers money that disappeared in long island long ago, I'd be rich, if only al capone didn't shoot him while playing a card game things would have been different, his name was Arnold Rothstein. But I digress, try your hardest and do better than last time, it's up to you on how well you do, I also don't work for a union company, I like the fact that I can get paid according to how well I do, not a scale of years in the company or when the next guy up retires and I can move up the ladder. In the last 3 raises, I've seen 4 to 5 digit increases because I work very hard, find the problems and fix them, I don't settle for O.K. in anything, work, home or hobbies. Some call me a perfectionist, but I call it devoted and refined. Someone actually said I have a disorder and was serious because I admitted that I recovered a plane 3 times because the finish wasn't right 2 of the 3 times, I was just being a craftsman. Maybe he was right?!

    ADDED,...
    I don't have any connenctions to the K street lobbists, but if I had to chose, I would have rather seen a war veteran in the oval office rather than the current left wing nut we have, but that's all I'm going to say to avoid making this fourm a political statement.

  5. #105
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    RE: An ARF Nation

    ORIGINAL: triadairbiscuit

    Minus the fluff, the real point (which I'm not missing by the way) that many, but certainly not all, scratch builders try to make against ARF builders is that they are somehow better because they build. How would you feel if you were Christian and I said I felt sorry for you because, in your ignorence, you did not embrace Buddhism(just an example to illustrate a point), and thus miss out on all sorts of enlightenment? You would likely tell me to take a hike. Perhaps I enjoy this hobby just as much as scratch builders, but in different ways. Perhaps I wouldn't enjoy building even if I had the time. The point that becomes clear to me is that many scratch builders seem unable to see, or accept any point of view but their own in terms of this hobby. You seem to be able to see both sides of the coin, which is great. The OP takes great pains to not directly insult ARF builders, but does so discreetly. To paraphrase the way I read it; ARF's are a sign of the end times for our nation, and their lazy and unskilled propenents are to blame. You may not intentionally do so, but there is an underlying tone of superiority to your post as well. Thats just how I interpret it, and I'm certainly not trying to pick a fight. Actually your second post confirms to me that you're really just hoping others can find the same fulfillment you do in building, which is a noble intention. Just be careful how you classify those who don't feel the need for that kind of fulfillment. Perhaps I'm a bit sensitive because this is not the first thread I've seen that takes a swipe at ARF builders. Why are ARF's such a threat? In fact, I'm just trying to point out that we all participate in this hobby on different monetary, time, and interest levels. ARF builders are people to.
    Yep..and just to highlight a single point...arguably (sp?) you do NOT "assemble" an ARF. That seems to be the overwhelming written opinions of "ARF's" displayed by Kit builders. They still need to be carefully "constructed". The same gross exaggeration can be stated about kits...you have a manual that tells you EXACTLY how to assemble the kit. You even have wing jigs to get the correct dihedral, and fuselage jigs...etc...So why is Kit building such an art and ARF's are frowned upon?!

    Again, this argument is not valid. If you build from plans or from scratch, then you have some true bragging rights, only in my opinion. If you kit build, congratulations. You have more time on your hands than ARF builders BUT you certainly DO NOT have more skill, so stop bragging already.

    I see the point in this post. Maybe it is unintentional but I, too, am tired of the kit builder swagger displayed in this thread...and maybe that is what is helping to fuel the "energy".

    The good I see is everyone wants to enjoy this hobby/past time. It beats the heck out of doing drugs and shooting each other on the streets. That is what I dealt with for 15-years as a Reserve Sheriff for San Bernardino County.

    Fun to all....
    Have Great Day!
    Smacka

  6. #106

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    RE: An ARF Nation

    Hey Red, That no longer was an ARF the Min. to put the first coat of glass on that bird!!! Ha. Good to hear from ya. Roy
    Scratch it till it bleeds Convert it till it chokes

  7. #107
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    RE: An ARF Nation

    I've got to confess. I grew up with more toys than most . . . . . I had a No 11 ½ erector set and my own screwdriver. I also lived in a small upstate NY town on a lake with a town dump which supplied all the raw materials a kid could ever use to build go carts, shacks in the woods, with enough left over to damn up the stream that ran through the town and then build a bridge over the small pond that resulted. The lake left us with plenty of boats people didn't get out in time when the lake froze over. A little tar left from road building and some scraps of wood from orange crates that the local store tossed out and we had our own yatchs. ARFs to us was Always Ready to Fabricate something. We had it so good!

  8. #108

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    RE: An ARF Nation

    Too many people WANT to believe that my original post was intended as a personal attack on ARF flyers.

    That was NOT the intent.


    As a nation we are losing our technical abilities, despite the technical excellence displayed by a small number of R/C flyers, and Kit or ARF builders. The ARF, the TV dinner, the IKEA bookcase are all SYMPTOMS of the loss of our technical abilities.

    We cannot economically produce things of tangible value any more so we produce credit default swaps, sub-prime mortgages, and collateralized debt obligations instead. Each of these financial instruments are ways of saying "we have nothing of tangible value to trade, so instead, we will give you a promise that our children will produce something of value in the future". Coincidentally, by making it uneconomical for our children to participate in the finer technical points of building model airplanes, cooking real food, reading instead of watching television, playing videos instead of programming computers, wailing on Guitar Hero instead of learning a real musical instrument, we are depriving them of the very abilities that they will need to pay off the debts we have promised they will pay.

    Our inability to create tangible things of lasting value is our national tragedy and it is why we are the worlds larget net debtor nation, a debt which we owe largely to the worlds two most rapidly expanding creditors, India and China, each of which, cooincidentally are very good at building the things that we used to build.

    In the end, debtors sink into drugs, crime, and dispair, and sit around waiting for someone to bail them out. Creditors just shake their heads and say, "sorry dude, but you still owe me. Since you can't produce anything of value, I'll just take your house."

    We find it anathema that a union firefighter, sanitation worker, electrician, plumber or cop is unsatisfied with his salary of under $50,000. Yet we are happy to pay Keith Olbermann $7.5 million, Bill O'Reilly $10 million and Rush Limbaugh $33 million. We call Rush's work valuable and worthy. We say the carpenter is overpaid and we outsource his work to India.
    When I get a little money I buy model airplanes and if there is any left over, I buy food.

  9. #109
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    RE: An ARF Nation

    I don't attack ARF builders, I just state why I like to build and if it were a simple task of glue this to that, it would be easy and it is, but the last kit I built required quite a bit of extra work to make it fit and finish well, much more than just gluing parts together, infact I recut a bunch of parts due to poor quality of parts. So I guess to each thier own, if you have time for building then great, if not, that's fine, as long as the hobby still exists and people enjoy it. I don't believe that CEO's deserve the money they get, nor do I agree with rush's pay either, but some fool was talked into paying that much for his over the top pay. They say that health care profit is 1%, and it doesn't sound like much but on a large scale, that is billions,......yup 1 % is billions in profit, some say that it should be lowered to less than .5%. There should be a cap on CEO pay I believe, but keep it reasonable. Funny how the Big Three went to get a bail out and they got chastized for flying in on private jets?! and now the current administration just O.K.ed the purchase of three- $65 million dollar lear jets, funny huh? You make the decision of what seems fair and right, obviously if you don't someone else will for you. Outsourcing jobs is a $ decision, companys can make more money by building overseas, and we tolerate it to an extent, because we are a comsumer nation. The only area we excell in at technology and development is the medical field, we find and do more for the medical field than the entire world combined, the last 10 years of major research awards has been handed to the good old USA.

  10. #110
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    RE: An ARF Nation

    ORIGINAL: ctdahle

    Too many people WANT to believe that my original post was intended as a personal attack on ARF flyers.
    Not necessarily you. Have you read all of the posts in this thread? Others have certainly made that argument on your behalf.

    As a nation we are losing our technical abilities, despite the technical excellence displayed by a small number of R/C flyers, and Kit or ARF builders. The ARF, the TV dinner, the IKEA bookcase are all SYMPTOMS of the loss of our technical abilities.
    I understand what you are saying here but I do not think it is entirely on track. It is not that we are losing our technical abilities. It is that "others" no longer accept our abilities as payment for services rendered. For example, I have the ability to weld proficiently. I used to trade trades with people...using the barter system, if you will. I had a friend who could build furniture, and I could weld. He wanted a trailer for his four wheelers and wanted kid furniture. We traded trades and a bargain was struck...win...win. I have tried to use welding to trade trades a year ago and you would have thought I was trying to steal from a blind man with the response I was given. You are not completely off base here but slightly skewed.

    We cannot economically produce things of tangible value any more so we produce credit default swaps, sub-prime mortgages, and collateralized debt obligations instead. Each of these financial instruments are ways of saying ''we have nothing of tangible value to trade, so instead, we will give you a promise that our children will produce something of value in the future''. Coincidentally, by making it uneconomical for our children to participate in the finer technical points of building model airplanes, cooking real food, reading instead of watching television, playing videos instead of programming computers, wailing on Guitar Hero instead of learning a real musical instrument, we are depriving them of the very abilities that they will need to pay off the debts we have promised they will pay.
    again, I do not think we lack technical expertise. It is just not a margetable commodity anymore. Others have to want our expertise before it can serve as payment, or to swap trades.

    Our inability to create tangible things of lasting value is our national tragedy and it is why we are the worlds larget net debtor nation, a debt which we owe largely to the worlds two most rapidly expanding creditors, India and China, each of which, cooincidentally are very good at building the things that we used to build.
    It is not that simple. American Foreign Polices have more influence on topic than what you mention here. Most, if not all, is out of our control. Thank our Government for this.

    [qoute]In the end, debtors sink into drugs, crime, and dispair, and sit around waiting for someone to bail them out. Creditors just shake their heads and say, ''sorry dude, but you still owe me. Since you can't produce anything of value, I'll just take your house.''[/quote]

    Sometimes this happens BUT it has nothing to do with the debtors technical ability. He has no MONEY to pay his bills, so he loses his house, car ,etc...because creditors do not accept chickens as a debt paid.

    We find it anathema that a union firefighter, sanitation worker, electrician, plumber or cop is unsatisfied with his salary of under $50,000. Yet we are happy to pay Keith Olbermann $7.5 million, Bill O'Reilly $10 million and Rush Limbaugh $33 million. We call Rush's work valuable and worthy. We say the carpenter is overpaid and we outsource his work to India.
    Huh?!?! I do not pay any of those people a solitary dime. What are you talking about? I do not even know who Rush Limbaugh is, let alone thinking he is valuable, etc...Heck, I do not even attend sporting events because I believe altheletes are way over paid. You completely lost me on this thought
    Have Great Day!
    Smacka

  11. #111
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    RE: An ARF Nation


    ORIGINAL: planebuilder66

    I don't attack ARF builders, I just state why I like to build and if it were a simple task of glue this to that, it would be easy and it is, but the last kit I built required quite a bit of extra work to make it fit and finish well, much more than just gluing parts together, infact I recut a bunch of parts due to poor quality of parts. So I guess to each thier own, if you have time for building then great, if not, that's fine, as long as the hobby still exists and people enjoy it. I don't believe that CEO's deserve the money they get, nor do I agree with rush's pay either, but some fool was talked into paying that much for his over the top pay. They say that health care profit is 1%, and it doesn't sound like much but on a large scale, that is billions,......yup 1 % is billions in profit, some say that it should be lowered to less than .5%. There should be a cap on CEO pay I believe, but keep it reasonable. Funny how the Big Three went to get a bail out and they got chastized for flying in on private jets?! and now the current administration just O.K.ed the purchase of three- $65 million dollar lear jets, funny huh? You make the decision of what seems fair and right, obviously if you don't someone else will for you. Outsourcing jobs is a $ decision, companys can make more money by building overseas, and we tolerate it to an extent, because we are a comsumer nation. The only area we excell in at technology and development is the medical field, we find and do more for the medical field than the entire world combined, the last 10 years of major research awards has been handed to the good old USA.

    Good points but do not sell us short. We are very techincal in many Engineering fields and hold our own up against the best of them. For example, Germany does very well at Powder Metallurgy. USA can, and does, hold our own against Germany in this arena, just to mention one. We are a very technical nation.
    Have Great Day!
    Smacka

  12. #112
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    RE: An ARF Nation

    Smacka,

    T
    I see the point in this post. Maybe it is unintentional but I, too, am tired of the kit builder swagger displayed in this thread...and maybe that is what is helping to fuel the "energy".


    I dont think I can allow the use of the term Swagger,, unless you are referring to the current PREZ!

    By the way Rush is our new president in the event you have not heard!
    Boy, I say Boy... Thats Not 3D Son!!!!!!
    Come Drink.. From My Pistons!

  13. #113
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    RE: An ARF Nation

    Yes very true, infact my brother is the senior engineer at APS technoligies, they make the snake drill head for oil companies, that steer under ground to find the pockets of oil froma single point on the surface. Not too shabby, there is alot of inginuity in this country, finding a way to make it profitable and reliable is the challange, I remember him at WPI trying to make lab projects work, his design would work, but then his professor would say good, now make it with 3 sensors instead of 8, so back to the drawing board, alot of brainstorming between the two of us many a nights. So not all is lost, it will come around where the countries we do business with will start charging more as thier econimy becomes more like ours, where they need more to raise the bar of welth. But that is going to take a long time, many of us may never see that come about. Currently, I'm doing what I can to rid my debt and save money but not participate in a recession, I still fill the tank in my boat and go out, buy planes and spend money that I have in a actual bank account on parts for my jeep cj-7 project. I refuse to let this economy keep me from doing what I need and want to do because some idiot told me over the radio that I should save my money and invest in gold. My gold is golden balsa wood, my investments are tangable, and functional as well, they drive, fly and float,...that's all I need.

  14. #114

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    RE: An ARF Nation

    It's not a matter of WANTING to believe you attacked ARF hobbyists. In fact, I WANT to believe you DIDN'T mean to make a generalization about my lifestyle when you wrote;

    "The fact that we are too bloody lazy to build our own model planes or cook our own scampi is a national disaster."

    How, as a statement of "fact", do you know I'm lazy? Don't lump ARF builders together like that and just expect us to agree with you. Maybe I work harder than you, and maybe not, but you sure don't know. Generalizations sometimes sound good, but they're rarely accurate. Do we have some problems in this country? Sure. Do we need to shun modern technology and conveniences in order to force ourselves into learning skills? No. If so, some people on this forum, maybe even the op, should consider throwing their computers in the garbage and building one from scratch from home fashioned parts rather than one's imported from overseas. That would be the patriotic thing after all. But wait, it's probably not your job to build computers. Heck, a computer isn't really a necessity. It's more of a convenience for most people really. It's like a toaster. Did anyone here build their toaster? Is buying a toaster somehow less lazy than buying an ARF? I don't want to spend all my free time building things like toasters, or airplanes for that matter, when I can spend that time with my boy. I consider that a wiser investment in this countries future. The bottom line is that folks should probably learn a trade or skill they can have a productive career in (usually better for the country than building rc planes from scratch), become the best they can at it, and have FUN with their free time (you know, like flying planes for pete's sake). I'm off to cook some tasty scampi!

  15. #115
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    RE: An ARF Nation

    Swagger is something I do while leaving my porch after drinking 1/2 a 30 rack.

    Hmm, I don't blame you for getting flustered about the generalzation of arf builders, spend time with your boy, time flies and so do planes, teach him something to remember you by, quality time spent with my dad is something I will always remember. Ejnoy the scampi, don't forget the lime juice, gives it a little zing! I of course work for a company that thier equipment is in 1 out of every 2 buildings in the USA, HVAC is very important in this country, so the next time you go to the hospital for medical treatment, think about the operating room where tempatures and air cleanliness is extremely critical, that's my job, not only to keep that room correct, but the entire place at the correct tempature to avoid health issues, along with universities, collages, corperate buildings, and even manufacturing facilities. Process cooling for manufacture, heating for schools, the list goes on and on, the only difference is the size of the equipment, a chiller for cooling the hospital is about 1000X's bigger than your typical home a/c system, same for the boilers too. So my field isn't glorious but serves an important role in socety, I'm content and it pays the bills.

  16. #116

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    RE: An ARF Nation

    Planebuilder66,
    My wife just got out of an extended hospital stay with multiple surgeries. Maybe your hvac systems kept her from getting some sort of infection, etc. You're an example of an everyday hero, and I'm glad you are good at what you do for your primary job. Thank you.

  17. #117
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    RE: An ARF Nation

    It's not glorious, the last hospital I worked at I had to cut open the chiller with a plasma cutter, remove the componet, fix it and weld it back up in a days time, the room is about 105 degrees and the machine runs at about 300 degrees on the the part I had to fix, so it's covered in heavy fiberglass insulation, now you can picture the sense of lunicy on my part, would you knowingly subject yourself to a hot room, work on a extremely hot piece of equipment that's going to make you very itchy for the next week or so? I must be crazy, but all that sits in your mind from the time you hit the stop button on the machine till the time you hit start again is "hurry up, so they don't have to evacuate the hospital", in the end it all works out, but you do the job and things are better because of it. I still have a nice burn on my forearm from where I hit the 1/2" steam pipe last friday while tightening the bolts down on a unit. But the facility had cooling within 1 hour after opening. I try and that's what counts.
    Thanks for the kind words, most of the time they are angry because it died and when all is better, they want you gone because it costs them money.

  18. #118

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    RE: An ARF Nation

    A Great modeler and a good friend of mine use to say "It's just a Toy plane" and I'm sure to a lot of you, this may not true, but isn't this suppose to be a fun thing? ARF or not. Just asking?
    IT\'\'\'\'S ONLY A TOY!

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    RE: An ARF Nation

    Yes, it is, it's a toy in the end, who's going to say different, even when the dollar amount exceeds 20,000 dollars, it's still just a toy.

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    RE: An ARF Nation

    your view on unions is a little distorted...contracts expire every 5 years or so, then the company and the union have to reach an agreement, strikes happen because neither party wants to compromise. during a strike everybody loses, company loses production and workers lose wages. the company and the union forget that they need each other to be profitable, but being in a union is more about legal representaion than higher wages, once a workforce reaches a large number its easy for an employee, or maybe multiple employees to be treated unfairly. When I was younger I worked for disneyland, their workforce is one of union representaion and most of us only made min. wage.

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    RE: An ARF Nation

    Good thread! I do have many arfs because I did lack time to build! But about 8 years ago I cut the TV ties off and started spending more time doing what I wanted to do and living my life, rather then watching others act out thiers! I now build kits and find that I love doing it! The kits are so much more relaxing to build and can cover in your colors! Do they fly better no! do they feel better to fly yes! to me very much yes! I know that we all love the diffrent parts of this hobby the flying the building! but to me it is equel love of the hobby! I do understand most of what the first guy wrote on this thread. My kids do not cook they heat up prepared foods. They text one another constant! I had a cell phone for a short time and just kepted it in the car never used it and never answered it when I was out enjoying life like flying or fishing etc. Well I have to go in and prepare Sunday dinner for my kids comming over tonight! Homemade spaghetti sauce and meatballs! No I to do not like prepared foods! I was a singled dad that raised four kids alone and they ate homemade foods! They still come over for a homecooked meal, Still happy to do it! Bob

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    RE: An ARF Nation

    I remember talking to a competitor about how it was in his company, he had been there for 20 years in a union company, his view was that everything was perfect, I asked alot of questions about medical, pay and benifits, all seemed alright, I didn't tell him how much I made, but he gave me a rough number of what I could earn if I joined thier company, I just told him no thanks, I already made almost as much as him and I did more than he did. The number he gave me was half my pay according to the union scale at the time, so this is what I'm getting at I guess, seniority plays a huge part in unions, I'm not for or against unions, I just chose to be non-union because of my beliefs. There are 2 accounts I go to that the places hire us and them, bolth of them say that when they think of our company, they view us as get it done company, the competitor is viewed as a beuracratic company that has too many policies and takes a long time to finish a task. I'm in and out with a job complete where they have guys for each procedure. Unions can protect an employee but also cause a enormous loss of jobs, just look at pratt and whitney engines, they hire, and layoff more than most change underware, and the sad thing is the poeple who earned money there got use to the high pay and took out huge home loans, bought new cars, boats, waverunners and every toy imaginable, then had to give it all up due to a government cut in spending that laid them off. I can't say much more about unions besides from talking to union workers, some good but some bad, I'll personally take my chances on the outside and make my own way without the backer of a union saying I have a job and then be laid off the next week due to contract downfalls. I now make more than the guy I talked to about 2 years ago, and he is now worried about being laid off due to ecinomic reasons, my company is currently and still is hiring people because we get the job done and work efficently, which cost less overall. Plus we offer a factory support that no other company working on our equipment can supply.

  23. #123
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    RE: An ARF Nation

    Now bob is someone I admire, a single dad who had no choice but to do it all himself, if more people were like him and his morals, this country would be a little better. I hate my cell phone, but it's a necessity at work, so is the computer at work, but things were much nicer when the internet didn't exist and cell phones were for rich people. Once it became mainsteam, it enabled people to become isolated and unattached. Somehow it seems great that my parents use to kick us out of the house to go play in the yard and not watch tv, I have 2 large TV's now, but all day, they've been off, I'd rather clean the basement than watch it.

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    RE: An ARF Nation


    ORIGINAL: planebuilder66
    Once it became mainsteam, it enabled people to become isolated and unattached. Somehow it seems great that my parents use to kick us out of the house to go play in the yard and not watch tv, I have 2 large TV's now, but all day, they've been off, I'd rather clean the basement than watch it.
    This thread has been MOST interesting! Isn't it all up to our choices we make? Every one of us can make a choice and act on it. I remember a lady once telling me that someone kept stalking her on the Internet. Guess what I told her? I said turn it off! Imagine that, the PC has a shut off switch We can choose to watch TV and erode away on the couch or we can CHOOSE to go do something else and be circumstance changers. We should learn moderation in all things.

    I haven't been back into RC long, but one of the reasons I was able to get back into RC was an RTF! Me and my dad built a plane when I was young (about 45 years ago). We never flew it. My dad passed a few years ago and I somehow kept that small dream to fly an RC plane. I wanted to see if it was feasible enough within the time frame that I have available to me. If it had not of been for the RTF trainer, I would not have made the choice to get back into RC. This is worth pondering. ARFs and RTFs get a lot of people into this hobby. I think this is fantastic!

    And on a side note, I do not believe we have lost our technical skills. As a matter of fact I believe people are smarter now than they have ever been. Just look at what we have accomplished in the last 50 years! It is truly amazing. I for one, really prefer my bathrooms over the old "outhouse" of the old days.

    Thanks for the great post.

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    RE: An ARF Nation

    See, it can be a good thing, as long as we all collectivly enjoy aspects of the hobby this is fine, I actually envision the old days when I think of this hobby, good old dad at the field with a pipe in his mouth holding that creation he called his own that took him months to design and build, but it sure did fly great. I may not have such a classy past as him, but I still remember going to the field and hanging out with the old wise men and listening to thier stories and enjoying the company of all. hat is what the hobby means to me, kinda like the coleman comercials, the originators of the first sociual network, this hobby was mine outside of parental guidence and within. I enjoy almost all aspects of it and above all,....the people, technoligy has advanced, and RCU is great to an extent, I can have a debate or conversation on it, but it's one notch below a phone call, there are alot of things written in text that are taken the wrong way when read in an fourm. They are just words, and unless we start writing alot better to convey emotion, I find it hard to diferentiate between a sympathetic reply and a agressive reply, it all depends on your mood when you read it. If your miffed in the first place, the reply will come across as negative, but when your in good spirits, it may be read in a positive manner. So I ask myself to read each reply in a good meaning mannor, unless they are flaming me beyond reason, then I stomp back, nahhhh, your entitled your oppinion as well and I respect that, isn't this country great?


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