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An ARF Nation

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Old 08-10-2009, 01:12 AM
  #151
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I agree Tim, It does seem like there are less hours in a day, My job right now takes less of my time and still I struggle to find time to get on a build. I do love to build and love to fly! In the long winters we have here in Wyoming I build and fly in the summer. Yes I do have ARF's left over that I fly and did buy the Escape and enjoy it allot but I cut out other things like TV to enjoy the building part also! Now just need to cut out the computer and free up more time, We'll scrap the last sentence for now! Learn to much from it! Bob
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Old 08-10-2009, 04:08 AM
  #152
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: cubmaster126
I have to build my own from kits!! I fly Swany planes and a kit is the only way you can get them anymore! I'm 34, and am teaching my 10 year old solo pilot I taught to build kits. It's not that building is dying, it's not being passed along from generation to genreation, the pride of the build. Go to the fields and you'll see 2 generations usually. the 60 and up group and the 30 something and younger group. I wholly agree that RTF's,ARF's, and 3D is what has kept this hobby going, cause there is such a large gap between the generations that wasn't bridged at some point, somehow. And the worst thing is, the two groups usually at some point bump heads cause they have two different views of the hobby, when we should be sharing all the experience between all. both groups have alot to learn from each!! But what usually happens is the old cj with the fokker sits there and criticizes the younger flyer for how he flies(usually 3D is involved)and the young pilot instead of wanting to learn the years of knowledge from the veteran retaliates by going against everything the vetern says. Sad, but I have seen it first hand!!!
The veterans could learn new ways,moves in flying from the young and the young could learn the physics and setup of a good plane from the veteran. Ask a newer pilot what mechanical differential is, and half have no idea, but the old guys know.We should be sharing, not hating between the generations
When I was a child, I would look up anytime I heard an airplane engine. I would jump on my bike when I heard a model engine running at the schoolyard. I drew airplanes, and I built models. I was noticing a bunch of kids the other day, and an airplane way flying overhead (an N-2S) and not one child bothered to look up.

I just don't see the interest in things aircraft from the younger set any longer.

As a child, World War II was just over, and Korea had not yet started. Lots of Dads were home from Europe and the Pacific. Quite a few of them had been pilots or aircrew. We were interested in things that flew (manned flight was about 50 years old), and wanted to participate.

On my 16th birthday, I got to solo in a J-3. I got my drivers license the next day. This shows what my priorities were. This has been a lifelong hobby for me, and sadly none of my Grandchildren are showing any interest in the hobby. I don't know what the answers are, but I'm reasonably certain that we have not found them with what we are doing either. Flight is old hat, and the kids have a short attention span, and are into instant gratification. Can't have it right now? What's next then?

Bill, Waco Brother #1
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Old 08-10-2009, 07:04 AM
  #153
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Hey, we have READY-TO-DRIVE-CARS ... we just buy them off the dealers lot and drive them away. So why not and ARF. Granted they are not built well. But, spend about 20 extra hours on them to make it right, and you have a pretty good plane. Yes, my kit built plane is much better, but I sure wouldn't want to build a car !! That's what the auto manufacturers are for.
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Old 08-10-2009, 07:06 AM
  #154
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Hey, we have READY-TO-DRIVE-CARS ... we just buy them off the dealers lot and drive them away. So why not an ARF. Granted they are not built well. But, spend about 20 extra hours on them to make it right, and you have a pretty good plane. Yes, my kit built plane is much better, but I sure wouldn't want to build a car !! That's what the auto manufacturers are for.
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Old 08-10-2009, 07:21 AM
  #155
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Yes, I have a nephew that is like that, it started with ebay and his instant gratification of selling pokemon cards at the ripe old age of 10, now it's the next level in a ps3 or x-box game or worse, which girl to pick up next, he's 18 now and life is not right unless he has everything right now. I tried to teach a friends son to build, he wanted the corsair, he started the kit, I guided him through 50% of it and his desire to build fizzled out because it was taking too long, so his dad is finishing it for him. His son is 19 and works part time at a golf course, so time wasn't an issue, it was just lack of interest, I actually recommended not building that plane as a first, but he insisted he would see it through. I geuss that has alot to say about current work ethics, if it seems too overwelming and tough, just give up and move on. I see people take shortcuts all the time at work and almost none pay off. Some shortcuts cost 100,000 + dollars in repairs. But I'm not saying this is the general attitude amogst most americans, but it does contribute in some ways.
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Old 08-10-2009, 07:22 AM
  #156
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As I've sat and watched this post grow over the weekend, I've noticed it goes back and forth. Starts with airplanes, then goes to politics, then to economy, then back to airplanes...etc, etc, ad inifinitum.

I think we all love our hobby dearly...Dem or GOP, black or white, ditch digger or doctor. That much is clear, and we defend our reasons for what we create/build/assemble/buy/fly with great gusto. I admire Stick for his ability and his passion. I admire rkimmerle for deciding ARF's allow him to spend more quality time with the family. I admire anyone who can manage business with family and pleasure, creating a balance that works for them, and them alone.

My thought all along (well, since I was enlightened earlier anyway ) has been that ARF's were used as a sort of "barometer". I don't think our national woes and spiraling debt can be attributed to a Hanger 9 PNP Cub. I think that possibly that standard of hobby/airplane is simply indicative of a mindset, and that mindset can be rationalized until the cows come home, on the backs of flying pigs.

Stop thinking of the advent and rise of the ARF mindset as the cancer. Perhaps it is simply the strange, new mole that signals the possibility of the existence of a deeper cancer. As a nation, a self exam is in order. We may just find out that it is only a mole after all...but we still need to check.

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Old 08-10-2009, 07:25 AM
  #157
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I am sick of theis post and all the others like it. I build kits because I have the time. Without ARFs our hobby would be almost nothing. I know at my club their would only be 2 of us. I don't think I am better than ARF flyers. Kits will never go away they are all over ebay and plans are everywhere. Get over it stop complaining about ARFs and the people who fly them and go build your airplane.
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Old 08-10-2009, 08:45 AM
  #158
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I support the post above me. With my personal commitments like family, girlfriend, and work, I only have time for ARF's. I can't camp out in my basement and spend months building a kit. When and if I retire this could change. But right now it's ARF's or nothing.

Plus the world is changing, you gotta try and keep an upbeat attitude. Otherwise you might as well just take a cyanide pill.
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Old 08-10-2009, 08:54 AM
  #159
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I completely agree with the original poster. While I don't care whether or not someone builds kits, I do understand how modelers followed the same riff as the rest of the nation.

It is true. Instant gratification has gotten the worst of this society's peoples. A good throwback will eventually correct all of this. I'm not a trogdolyte, I don't live in the past, nor do I think backwards. But I do know what makes life enjoyable and worth living. And it's not always necessarily the fastest and most painless route.

I love building a kit. It takes me to exactly where I need to be...it's why I'm a hobbyist.
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Old 08-10-2009, 09:12 AM
  #160
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Who's taking care of the kids and doing the house chores when you're living in the basement for 6 months? Kind of selfish isn't it?
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Old 08-10-2009, 09:50 AM
  #161
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: JoeAirPort

Who's taking care of the kids and doing the house chores when you're living in the basement for 6 months? Kind of selfish isn't it?
Not really. Hobbies of course take a back seat to "jobs." But if I have time to watch TV, I have time to work on a plane. If I have time to read a book, I have time to build.

"If you have time to lean, you have time to clean" was what my boss told me at one of my first highschool jobs. It still applies.
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Old 08-10-2009, 02:02 PM
  #162
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If people used the same hours they spend on the computer trolling these websites watching tv and texting uselesly following twitter - and build a plane. I believe they would "find" the time they needed to do so.

I have - you have we all have the same number of hours in a day that our parents had and they worked raised children and still had time for hobbies.

It is all in what you chose to do with your time. But if someone tells you that they just don't have as much time as they used to have in times past - simply have no grasp of reality.

just my humble opinion
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Old 08-10-2009, 02:06 PM
  #163
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Joe,
Come on you know the answer to that. TV, Video Games, etc. They are the best sitters for the MONEY!!!
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Old 08-10-2009, 05:50 PM
  #164
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I was going to stay out of this one but........ A young man in his mid to late 20's showed up at the field Sunday with a Alpha ARF and his 3 kids in tow. One in the stroller and the other 2 could get around. We checked him out and got him up 3 times. He was trilled and the older boy really showed a interest so next time we will put him up on the Buddy Box. My point here without that ARF this guy would have never found the time to build and get out to the field due to all his other responsibilities. All you ARF nation haters get a grip. They have a place in our sport just as building does.
Mike
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Old 08-10-2009, 06:27 PM
  #165
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hmmm, maybe i should make my own plastic molds and buy a CNC machine, so i could build helicopters from scratch too. now there's an idea! i must be dumbing down America because i build kits from parts that have already been CNC'ed, pressed into molds and cut into individual carbon fiber and fiber glass pieces. i keed, i keed!

actually, i had scratch built CL planes when i was 12-13 and boats when i was 10-12. right now i just don't have the space to do it in my apartment without creating lots of mess with saw dust. i was thinking of doing it on my patio though, so maybe at some point that's what i'll do. for now, i'm just going with a flat foam plane in the spring, to break into the airplanes side again. building would be fun to me, but i also would like to have the time to run all my existing RC's, go to a shooting range, kayak, ride a bike, try to work out to tone down a slowly forming beer belly, spend time with the few of my friends that don't have kids yet, etc. So it'll most likely take me a while to put a kit together, nevertheless, i'm still interested in doing so. That of course doesn't rule out buying something made of foam.
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Old 08-10-2009, 06:42 PM
  #166
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I don't make time to build. I admire the people that do. I do have a slow poke that is about 25% done, but don't get to work on it all that much. We have about 12 planes and fly them all. I wouldn't have gotten into this hobby if there weren't ARFs. I think alot of people are in the same boat as me and my son. I plan on building planes when I have more time. It's calming when I have the time to do it. ARFs are good for the hobby because they allow alot of other people to get into it. Some people don't have the building skills either, but learn to love to fly.
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Old 08-10-2009, 07:40 PM
  #167
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i also would like to stress out building ability. to some it comes naturally and others have started as young kids, but i have some friends that are just NOT that great with tools. i can work on real cars, work with wood, etc, but not everyone would be able to build a kit that flies straight. there's nothing wrong with that, but it would prevent someone from enjoying the flying part. some folks also like to start simple, just to see how they like the hobby. then later they might get the bug and start building something custom.
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Old 08-10-2009, 08:07 PM
  #168
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No one is born knowing how to read or do mathmatics either - you learn to do it by starting out with easy words and progressing, same with building a kit.
If you have the desire to do it you can, if not you arf. In my opinion anyone can make an excuse for anything but it won't get one thing done.
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Old 08-10-2009, 08:38 PM
  #169
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Anyone registered to post here, knows how to find a thread on building a kit here, you can come up to a competent level in no time.

Most kits come with instructions! C'mon, who can't lay way paper on the plans and CA the thing together? The "hard" to build kits are probably long gone by now because they didn't sell. What I'm saying is you need to not make excuses like those heavy women who started 50 diets and failed. Or the guy that joins a gym and never goes. This is just another discipline to work out. BUY the kit. OPEN the kit. LAYOUT the kit. START building the kit. FINISH the kit. FLY the kit. So what if you budget 1 hour a night, you'll be done in time.

The only way you can get a Four Star 40 these days, is by building the kit. It's a favorite among many, and now the ARF is discontinued. So there are some advantages to kit building. Same is true for the Ultra Sport 40/60/GS. I prefer the Super Sportster in kit form. Kaos certainly didn't make the same ARF version as the kit. The list goes on. Somethings are better flying as a kit.

I have built kits since I was 10 years old, I like how they come out better now that I'm 47, but they ALL flew. I taught my 11 year old daughter how to build a kit. It's a family thing we do. Now I teach her to drive.

I build about 10 ARFs to 1 kit these days.
I'm self employed and have a business that takes some time every day to manage,
plus I raise 2 kids, alone, home school them by myself, have done so for years.
From time to time we kit build in our spare time.
I made a personal choice to not connect cable TV in this house years ago.
I missed out on the ad campaign for "bing" friends told me about, like I was away on a trip to another world in their eyes. We have no text features on our Verizon phones. We have no time for texting, watching TV, or spending too much time on the internet.
In the 5 years I've been on RCU, I posted a minimum on the forum. Amazing what can be done budgeting a day/night.

These afford us the time to do things together. Building is just as much a hobby as flying.
I cherish the kit building time I had when I was child with my father, and enjoy the time I spend with my kid doing the same.
It's too hot in Florida to do much outside this time of year. TV isn't on the list of daily activities, so A LOT gets done in a day around here.

Don't say building a kit is too anything, until you tried it.
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Old 08-10-2009, 09:40 PM
  #170
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: JoeAirPort

Who's taking care of the kids and doing the house chores when you're living in the basement for 6 months? Kind of selfish isn't it?

I think what you are looking for Joe, is sometimes referred to as "time management". Also involved are concepts such as priorities, values and personal interests.

I began modeling at an early age. Had ARFs been around at the time I would have never become interested in the hobby. In addition to model building and flying (control line, freeflight &RC) I have, and still, participated in competitive shooting, motorcycling, antique car restoration, photography hunting, fishing and gardening among other activities. I typically read around two books a week. I watch little TV and don't spend a great deal of time on a computer. Along the way I managed to serve in the Marine Corps, fight a war, and have a full career in industry.

During the most recent forty years my first priority was and is my wife and my two children. At times I was not able to spend as much time with them as I would have liked due to the demands and required travel of my job. Never have they suffered a lack of quality time with me due to my leisure activities.

Please do not misunderstand. While I find ARF models boring I am not always bored by those who fly them.

jess
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Old 08-10-2009, 10:03 PM
  #171
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guillows (it loses a little bit of impact when you spell it wrong)
Quote:
ORIGINAL: ZebraOne

[font=''Verdana''][/font][font=''Verdana''][/font]
Horace

I used to build every thing....In the 'old' days, BOM, was the rule! Now it's the exception. I doubt if any of the 'hot shots' could even begin to assemble a Gullows kit
My problem is when retiring, thing got downsized and so did my home. At 80, I don't feel i have time to start on that Waco YMF i have been hoarding[]
ARF's are the way to go for me, now!
But I still abmire the guys have the room and time to do it.
I really thirsted for the kit that that guy who was selling that old Platt kit of the Bucker Jungmeister!
And I still miss RCM and Don Dewey and his rants. LOL
Jeeze, time flys too
Zee
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Old 08-10-2009, 10:14 PM
  #172
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Thats kinda wierd that you would say that Ive been trying to get this guy with a laser cutter to cut out a kit for me for a couple of weeks now and he keeps ducking me(dont know why) this is a bit agravating as translating plans from the old royal kits to a format for the cutter takes forever and i only know the one guy with a cutter.
Quote:
ORIGINAL: joizeex

hmmm, maybe i should make my own plastic molds and buy a CNC machine, so i could build helicopters from scratch too. now there's an idea! i must be dumbing down America because i build kits from parts that have already been CNC'ed, pressed into molds and cut into individual carbon fiber and fiber glass pieces. i keed, i keed!

actually, i had scratch built CL planes when i was 12-13 and boats when i was 10-12. right now i just don't have the space to do it in my apartment without creating lots of mess with saw dust. i was thinking of doing it on my patio though, so maybe at some point that's what i'll do. for now, i'm just going with a flat foam plane in the spring, to break into the airplanes side again. building would be fun to me, but i also would like to have the time to run all my existing RC's, go to a shooting range, kayak, ride a bike, try to work out to tone down a slowly forming beer belly, spend time with the few of my friends that don't have kids yet, etc. So it'll most likely take me a while to put a kit together, nevertheless, i'm still interested in doing so. That of course doesn't rule out buying something made of foam.
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Old 08-10-2009, 10:31 PM
  #173
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Old 08-10-2009, 11:23 PM
  #174
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Yes me too have given up TV cable about 8 yrs ago and very happy with that decision! I do listen to baseball and football on the radio while I build! It has freed up so much more time and I do not feel i am missing out on anything, be honest TV has bored me for years! I do watch RC stuff on the little TV I have but thats a little in the winter on DVD! I have not had the exspence of the cable or other and that also free's up money for another kit! No cell phone, but some times I do overdue on the computer but getting better! I do think there is a place for ARF's but building is just as much a love as flying for me! There are some nice ARF's on the market and i did buy the Escapade and really enjoy the plane! Would even go as far as saying buy it you will love it! But still happy to build and build I will! With the long winters here if I built just ARF's I would have way to many planes! 51 planes right now! Bob
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Old 08-11-2009, 01:47 AM
  #175
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: psb667

Thats kinda wierd that you would say that Ive been trying to get this guy with a laser cutter to cut out a kit for me for a couple of weeks now and he keeps ducking me(dont know why) this is a bit agravating as translating plans from the old royal kits to a format for the cutter takes forever and i only know the one guy with a cutter.
interesting... have you offered him some cash? some people will offer to help, but they don't really mean to, so they'll keep avoiding you forever. if you did in fact offer some kind of compensation, maybe he's just being lazy, but i don't get why someone wouldn't want to make a quick buck??

just curious about laser cut parts, since i've only built kits where i cut out all the parts using a coping saw (i was like 10 or something), do they need much sanding and trimming to make them all identical? i also would like to build a tall ship/sail boat and those are done with similar laser cutting.
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