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  1. #1

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    An ARF Nation

    I read the "boring airplane" thread and became very depressed.

    Lots of people lamenting that very few people build, or even have the skill to build anything anymore, and lots of others explaining, accurately, why building is impractical, uneconomical and unnecessary. The tragedy is that both sides are right and it is a phenomenon that permeates American culture. Writer Michael Pollan addressed the same topic in the New York Times today, explaining how the preparation of good food has mutated from something every family did for itself, to something done by corporations and their minimum wage workers, or by superstar chefs on television shows, but not by normal people.

    We have number crunched everything that takes effort, patience, practice, knowlege, and skill, turned it into drudgework and delegated it to others.

    Now things like building model airplanes, cooking good meals, making heirloom quality furniture, and crocheting baby quilts, along with all of the character building skills, qualities, and values that go with those things have become relics.

    I am firmly on the side of the scratch builder, the hand quilter, the home gardener and chef. The fact that we are too bloody lazy to build our own model planes or cook our own scampi is a national disaster. The rise of ARF culture is symptomatic of America's moral decline, and to pass it off with the platitude "to each his own" is a cop out, an apathetic acceptance of an American nation in decline, forfeiting its role as a beacon of freedom, a crucible of innovation, and the undisputed leader in technical skill and industrial quality.

    An ARF nation is a nation on the ropes, unable to educate it's children, feed itself, manage it's ports, appropriately regulate it's economy, fabricate it's own semi-conductors, provide its own customer service centers or maintain it's own industries. An ARF nation is a dying nation.
    When I get a little money I buy model airplanes and if there is any left over, I buy food.

  2. #2

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    RE: An ARF Nation

    somewhere i read that the drive and ingenuity that sent a man to the moon has been replaced by a nation of Iphone addicts. too busy texting and playing on their phones to ever achieve anything. probably a bit over the top but made me think a little. as for me scratchbuilding, glassing and painting my planes are the only way to go. with an arf or 2 for sunday flyers[X(].
    David

  3. #3
    Kmot's Avatar
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    RE: An ARF Nation

    I guess this is why Obama was elected...
    ~Tom~

  4. #4
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    RE: An ARF Nation

    ORIGINAL: Kmot

    I guess this is why Obama was elected...
    IS THAT WHAT HAPPENED LOL Change

    Maybe we can get some CASH for Crash.
    Larry K
    Sig Brotherhood # 1 Sig Kadet Brotherhood # 4 WACO Brotherhood #34 Cub Brotherhood 14

  5. #5

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    RE: An ARF Nation

    I'm not sure that we are a dying nation simply because we buy ARF's. For example, I really like my ARW clothes instead of weaving the material and hand sewing them. I also like my ARC foods instead of having to grow everything my family eats.

    It's all good. I enjoy ARF's and I enjoy kits. I also have been hand building furniture for my grandchildren. Putting together ARF's gives me the time to do the furniture which is more important than my hobby.
    Kevin

  6. #6
    Live Wire's Avatar
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    RE: An ARF Nation

    Living in the fast lane We do nothing here any more, I seems like we do not have the time, Cell phone , fast food, fast cars and where do we get it. Some day we will be eating pills rather than food, and every flying field will have developement on it. I better stop We can not leave out the credit card and unpaid bills[:@]
    Larry K
    Sig Brotherhood # 1 Sig Kadet Brotherhood # 4 WACO Brotherhood #34 Cub Brotherhood 14

  7. #7
    Hossfly's Avatar
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    RE: An ARF Nation

    ORIGINAL: ctdahle

    I read the ''boring airplane'' thread and became very depressed.

    Lots of people lamenting that very few people build, or even have the skill to build anything anymore, and lots of others explaining, accurately, why building is impractical, uneconomical and unnecessary. The tragedy is that both sides are right and it is a phenomenon that permeates American culture. Writer Michael Pollan addressed the same topic in the New York Times today, explaining how the preparation of good food has mutated from something every family did for itself, to something done by corporations and their minimum wage workers, or by superstar chefs on television shows, but not by normal people.

    We have number crunched everything that takes effort, patience, practice, knowlege, and skill, turned it into drudgework and delegated it to others.

    Now things like building model airplanes, cooking good meals, making heirloom quality furniture, and crocheting baby quilts, along with all of the character building skills, qualities, and values that go with those things have become relics.

    I am firmly on the side of the scratch builder, the hand quilter, the home gardener and chef. The fact that we are too bloody lazy to build our own model planes or cook our own scampi is a national disaster. The rise of ARF culture is symptomatic of America's moral decline, and to pass it off with the platitude ''to each his own'' is a cop out, an apathetic acceptance of an American nation in decline, forfeiting its role as a beacon of freedom, a crucible of innovation, and the undisputed leader in technical skill and industrial quality.

    An ARF nation is a nation on the ropes, unable to educate it's children, feed itself, manage it's ports, appropriately regulate it's economy, fabricate it's own semi-conductors, provide its own customer service centers or maintain it's own industries. An ARF nation is a dying nation.
    Scary thoughts but OH so true. One thing you forgot is that the tests given kids in school for determining the worth of a school are all that the school system focuses on. I know several good teacher. They despise what these politicians are doing to our children. Unfortunately most of the teachers also despise the programs.
    As you so state, the do-it-yourself culture is gone, but I wonder if it really is. Having 10 grand-kids from 3 to 25, I find a lot of good ol' pioneer spirit in several of them. They work hard to stay abreast of things but they also value their freedoms and I keep pushing so.
    ctdahle, I graduated from High School in 1954. I was the only kid in that class that had a desire to be a pilot and did fly model airplanes (CL at the time) I had 3 friends in a much larger school, some 20 miles away, that I flew with when we could get together. Even then I did not let modeling interfere much with my hunting, fishing, and sometimes going to school. In summers I usually worked 6- to 84 hours per week to be able to have living money. Even back then I could build a 19-60 size CL model in 3 days. Now, maybe 3 months. [sm=confused_smile.gif]

    IMO, today aeromodeling is an action sport, however if one reads the magazines, especially Flying Models and visits with the FF/CL fliers, I think one will find that aeromodeling is very much alive along with the scratch build crowd. Back in the 1970 '76 period when I owned a Hobby Shop in the Chicago area, building was still the almost only way to go. As the ARFs came on line, certainly they became the way to go. People could go fly, if they crashed, they could go fly again very quickly. That is same for today.

    Here in the south, few people can afford homes with basements and/or air conditioned areas to build. Houses for most middle class do not have good workshop areas. I have the area but not air-conditioned. Cold in winter and hot in summer. Unless one grew up crazy about airplanes, that doesn't work well when an ARF can get one in the air quickly. My "first life" lasted at least 3 years longer that it should have because I hated to give up that comfy basement workshop up close to Chi-town.

    While our society leaves much to be desired, there are changes that we all do. My first car had 4 wheels, one engine two doors, a radio and a heater. About all. My truck now has a lot more creature comforts. My wife's mini-van seats 7, has TV and DVD stations, sirrus radio, navigation mapping and all sorts of stuff I have not yet figured out. Yep, the times they are a'changing, but it is because we demand so.

    Horrace Cain AMA L-93

    β€œPeace is the brief glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.\" T. Jefferson

  8. #8

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    RE: An ARF Nation

    The do-it yourself spirit lives on in freeflight,if only because it is such a small market that the ARF companies ignore us. True at least in the USA. Freeflight is BIG in Europe and there are many Eastern European cottage companies turning out incredible high tech gas and rubber powered models that command big prices.
    Β* I cannot afford to let someone build for me-I was a Chef on Amtrak but had to take a medical disqualification at age 50 so my income is limited. That's allright with me-I still enjoy building and designing at least as much as flying.
    Β* My wife is a very talented hand seamstressΒ* -so there are still some of us left
    G.C.Arlt \"..who else but those who are willing to pay that price will know in their hearts the glory of the skies..?\"F. Zaic

  9. #9
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    RE: An ARF Nation

    I love ARFs, and i like kits, but dont have enough time to build, and on the weekends id rather be flying. I live in deep south texas so the winters here are very mild, and there is no building season like up north........... Im sure my attitude will change if i live long enough to retire
    \"Propellers are notorious for inflicting serious bodily harm while vigorously defending their space\" George Aldrich

  10. #10
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    RE: An ARF Nation

    I'm just getting into kit building myself. I started with electric RTF's and glow engine ARF's because my first love is flying, not building. Besides working a 40 to 60 hour work week, I have three school age children who are very active in school and Church and thus my wife and I are both pretty involved with their school and church activities. We just moved into a new house that we built with our own hands over the last three years, and it is still not entirely finished. I also have a ministry using RC planes to teach kids to fly and maybe get them in church. One day when the kids are grown and other things don't take priority, I will probably enjoy building more planes. Right now, there just is not enough time for everything so I have to priortize. I love my family and flying more than building so the choice is simple right now. ARF's and RTF's get me in the air quickly and I get to spend time flying and teaching rather than building. Not that I wouldn't enjoy teaching people build also, but that's not where the interest is. Most kids today want to fly, the building usually comes after they decide if they even like flying or not. Everyone's situation and motivation is different, and mine will probably change as other things in my life change. So the expression has merit: "To each his own". Personally, I am thankfull for ARF's,RTF's,Kits, and scratch building. There's room for everyone.
    Jerry
    AMA -922698 Nomal people scare me, but not as much as I scare them...

  11. #11
    Smacka's Avatar
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    RE: An ARF Nation

    ORIGINAL: Hossfly

    ORIGINAL: ctdahle

    I read the ''boring airplane'' thread and became very depressed.

    Lots of people lamenting that very few people build, or even have the skill to build anything anymore, and lots of others explaining, accurately, why building is impractical, uneconomical and unnecessary. The tragedy is that both sides are right and it is a phenomenon that permeates American culture. Writer Michael Pollan addressed the same topic in the New York Times today, explaining how the preparation of good food has mutated from something every family did for itself, to something done by corporations and their minimum wage workers, or by superstar chefs on television shows, but not by normal people.

    We have number crunched everything that takes effort, patience, practice, knowlege, and skill, turned it into drudgework and delegated it to others.

    Now things like building model airplanes, cooking good meals, making heirloom quality furniture, and crocheting baby quilts, along with all of the character building skills, qualities, and values that go with those things have become relics.

    I am firmly on the side of the scratch builder, the hand quilter, the home gardener and chef. The fact that we are too bloody lazy to build our own model planes or cook our own scampi is a national disaster. The rise of ARF culture is symptomatic of America's moral decline, and to pass it off with the platitude ''to each his own'' is a cop out, an apathetic acceptance of an American nation in decline, forfeiting its role as a beacon of freedom, a crucible of innovation, and the undisputed leader in technical skill and industrial quality.

    An ARF nation is a nation on the ropes, unable to educate it's children, feed itself, manage it's ports, appropriately regulate it's economy, fabricate it's own semi-conductors, provide its own customer service centers or maintain it's own industries. An ARF nation is a dying nation.
    Scary thoughts but OH so true. One thing you forgot is that the tests given kids in school for determining the worth of a school are all that the school system focuses on. I know several good teacher. They despise what these politicians are doing to our children. Unfortunately most of the teachers also despise the programs.
    As you so state, the do-it-yourself culture is gone, but I wonder if it really is. Having 10 grand-kids from 3 to 25, I find a lot of good ol' pioneer spirit in several of them. They work hard to stay abreast of things but they also value their freedoms and I keep pushing so.
    ctdahle, I graduated from High School in 1954. I was the only kid in that class that had a desire to be a pilot and did fly model airplanes (CL at the time) I had 3 friends in a much larger school, some 20 miles away, that I flew with when we could get together. Even then I did not let modeling interfere much with my hunting, fishing, and sometimes going to school. In summers I usually worked 6- to 84 hours per week to be able to have living money. Even back then I could build a 19-60 size CL model in 3 days. Now, maybe 3 months. [sm=confused_smile.gif]

    IMO, today aeromodeling is an action sport, however if one reads the magazines, especially Flying Models and visits with the FF/CL fliers, I think one will find that aeromodeling is very much alive along with the scratch build crowd. Back in the 1970 '76 period when I owned a Hobby Shop in the Chicago area, building was still the almost only way to go. As the ARFs came on line, certainly they became the way to go. People could go fly, if they crashed, they could go fly again very quickly. That is same for today.

    Here in the south, few people can afford homes with basements and/or air conditioned areas to build. Houses for most middle class do not have good workshop areas. I have the area but not air-conditioned. Cold in winter and hot in summer. Unless one grew up crazy about airplanes, that doesn't work well when an ARF can get one in the air quickly. My ''first life'' lasted at least 3 years longer that it should have because I hated to give up that comfy basement workshop up close to Chi-town.

    While our society leaves much to be desired, there are changes that we all do. My first car had 4 wheels, one engine two doors, a radio and a heater. About all. My truck now has a lot more creature comforts. My wife's mini-van seats 7, has TV and DVD stations, sirrus radio, navigation mapping and all sorts of stuff I have not yet figured out. Yep, the times they are a'changing, but it is because we demand so.

    The two of you scare me

    I fly ARF's because...and you do not want to miss this folks...here it comes...drum roll please...listen carefully....

    I WANT TO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    All that other stuff is what evolves from people trying to think too much, and read too much into nothing...

    Moral decline???? Muhahahahahahahahaha...it's a damn plane for God sakes! Get over it and go fly...or drive...your preference...

    Above all, have fun...
    Have Great Day!
    Smacka

  12. #12

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    RE: An ARF Nation

    There are a fair number of Control Line ARF's available. And you cannot build the same airplane from a plan or kit for the cost of the ARF. Even so, the large majority of airplanes seen on control line fields today are not ARF's. Whether this will still be true in five or ten years, one cannot say.

  13. #13

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    RE: An ARF Nation

    One thing I didn't see mentioned is the population of modelers has been greatly expanded with the introduction of ARFs I for one would not be in the hobby were it not for arfs. In the four years of my particpation I have spent over $10,000.00 on airplane stuff. I venture to say there are a lot of manufactures making "Stuff" for the hobby that would not exist if we AFRers were not here.

    Wemart

  14. #14

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    RE: An ARF Nation

    ARF Nation- ARF Attitude. Buy it, use it up, throw it away. Who cares if it crashes, I'll just buy another one cheep! And get out of my way I deserve to fly anywhere I want as fast as I can!
    It does NOT have to be GIANT to be scale!

  15. #15
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    RE: An ARF Nation

    So I've been thinking about this for 24+ hours now (you knew I'd jump in here, right Chris )

    ============

    Being an "ARF Nation" is, indeed, a symptom of a broader issue.

    We don't produce.

    We don't make cars. We assemble them from bits and pieces made elsewhere. (ARDs?) We don't make DVD players either. We'll sure as heck find a way to install them in the cars we didn't make though. Why? Simple...we've spared parents the onerous task of raising children who behave for the 10 minutes it takes to get to the store. No longer need you instill discipline, respect, or courtesy in your child...simply shut them up with a dose of SpongeBob while you, feeling smug in your minivan, flip off the gass-guzzling SUV that just cut you off.

    We don't even grow our own beef any more...instead importing it, along with a healthy dose of Mad Cow, from Canada, processing it beyond recognition, and offering it up to you as a $2.99 value meal you don't even have to quit yakking on your cellphone to consume, on your way to your next important meeting.

    We are no longer a nation of producers. We're consumers and servants. We make life easier, faster, better, more efficient, more comfortable, flashier, quicker, and less troublesome in any way possible for anyone willing to pay our fees, desperate only to pass the fees along to the next internet site that'll offer us whatever "must have consumable" we absolutely NEED to own right NOW. If we don't have the money, no worries..an entire industry devoted to making slaves of us all has opened up, eager to see us further in debt at every turn.

    Did ARFs "cause" any of this? Of course not. Is their popularity and success just one more thing we won't produce for ourselves, instead preferring to run up another debt, or write another check, for someone else to do it for us? Absolutely.

    Is an ARF nation, then, a dying one?

    It is, indeed.

    Consider what we're saying here...

    We've become so unwilling to COMPETE, on an HONEST level, with the rest of the world, that we no longer even try...not even for our HOBBIES. It's not a question of exchanging the value created our lives for the highest possible value in return...WE HAVE NO VALUE TO EXCHANGE. We've created NOTHING.

    We're so averse to the idea of producing that we won't even bother to do so to fulfill our spare time, or engage in trivial pursuits. We can't, in short, be bothered to create value EVEN FOR FUN.

    Go look in the gas engine forum. There's an entire thread about a new 30cc engine. Its great claim? IT'S MADE IN THE UNITED STATES! The manufacturer BEGINS the thread telling us he can not and will not compete on price...yet offers no evidence he is competing on any other level! His assertion is that of the looter:

    You should be GUILTED AND BULLIED into buying his product, because if you don't, you're UNAMERICAN!

    Ask yourself 2 questions:

    1) Why is "MADE IN THE USA" such a "big deal"?

    Simple...because it's SO RARE.

    2) What would you think of a man who told you not to buy a product made by blacks, jews, women, or tall people?

    Differently than you think of a man who's telling you not to buy a product made by oriental people?

    That manufacturer is absolutely right...he will not compete on price. He hopes, however, you will IGNORE the fundamental FOUNDATION of this country:

    The
    Best
    Man
    Wins

    He WILL NOT offer you the BEST VALUE in exchange for some fixed chunk of your life. That being the case, he's right..he CAN'T COMPETE. His only hope then...the only method he has of convincing you to buy his product is the same method the looter uses to separate you from your money:

    Coercion

    If he can convince you that buying another product is unpatriotic, immoral, or wrong....you'll buy his! REGARDLESS of the fact that you're LOSING the value for value exchange. His ONLY hope of success is to take MORE of your life than he RIGHTLY DESERVES.

    What's this have to do with ARFs? Simple...

    We're no longer interested in making things. As a result, those very few who try find a market dominated by others...others who have become much better at making things...things WE consume.

    ==========

    We're a nation of consumers. The few producers left amongst survive only by looting. And we dismiss this mindset by calling people foolish and telling them they "think too much" (even that form of creation has become something to criticize), and should just leave us alone, because we're doing what we want.

    Truly, a dying nation indeed.
    ‘ǝʌısuǝdxǝ sΔ± dn puɐ dn sΔ± uʍop \'\'\'\'pΗΚ‡ΙΉΗΚŒuΔ± puɐ ʍo1 uǝΙ₯ʍ

  16. #16
    Stickbuilder's Avatar
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    RE: An ARF Nation


    ORIGINAL: gboulton

    So I've been thinking about this for 24+ hours now (you knew I'd jump in here, right Chris )

    ============

    Being an ''ARF Nation'' is, indeed, a symptom of a broader issue.

    We don't produce.

    We don't make cars. We assemble them from bits and pieces made elsewhere. (ARDs?) We don't make DVD players either. We'll sure as heck find a way to install them in the cars we didn't make though. Why? Simple...we've spared parents the onerous task of raising children who behave for the 10 minutes it takes to get to the store. No longer need you instill discipline, respect, or courtesy in your child...simply shut them up with a dose of SpongeBob while you, feeling smug in your minivan, flip off the gass-guzzling SUV that just cut you off.

    We don't even grow our own beef any more...instead importing it, along with a healthy dose of Mad Cow, from Canada, processing it beyond recognition, and offering it up to you as a $2.99 value meal you don't even have to quit yakking on your cellphone to consume, on your way to your next important meeting.

    We are no longer a nation of producers. We're consumers and servants. We make life easier, faster, better, more efficient, more comfortable, flashier, quicker, and less troublesome in any way possible for anyone willing to pay our fees, desperate only to pass the fees along to the next internet site that'll offer us whatever ''must have consumable'' we absolutely NEED to own right NOW. If we don't have the money, no worries..an entire industry devoted to making slaves of us all has opened up, eager to see us further in debt at every turn.

    Did ARFs ''cause'' any of this? Of course not. Is their popularity and success just one more thing we won't produce for ourselves, instead preferring to run up another debt, or write another check, for someone else to do it for us? Absolutely.

    Is an ARF nation, then, a dying one?

    It is, indeed.

    Consider what we're saying here...

    We've become so unwilling to COMPETE, on an HONEST level, with the rest of the world, that we no longer even try...not even for our HOBBIES. It's not a question of exchanging the value created our lives for the highest possible value in return...WE HAVE NO VALUE TO EXCHANGE. We've created NOTHING.

    We're so averse to the idea of producing that we won't even bother to do so to fulfill our spare time, or engage in trivial pursuits. We can't, in short, be bothered to create value EVEN FOR FUN.

    Go look in the gas engine forum. There's an entire thread about a new 30cc engine. Its great claim? IT'S MADE IN THE UNITED STATES! The manufacturer BEGINS the thread telling us he can not and will not compete on price...yet offers no evidence he is competing on any other level! His assertion is that of the looter:

    You should be GUILTED AND BULLIED into buying his product, because if you don't, you're UNAMERICAN!

    Ask yourself 2 questions:

    1) Why is ''MADE IN THE USA'' such a ''big deal''?

    Simple...because it's SO RARE.

    2) What would you think of a man who told you not to buy a product made by blacks, jews, women, or tall people?

    Differently than you think of a man who's telling you not to buy a product made by oriental people?

    That manufacturer is absolutely right...he will not compete on price. He hopes, however, you will IGNORE the fundamental FOUNDATION of this country:

    The
    Best
    Man
    Wins

    He WILL NOT offer you the BEST VALUE in exchange for some fixed chunk of your life. That being the case, he's right..he CAN'T COMPETE. His only hope then...the only method he has of convincing you to buy his product is the same method the looter uses to separate you from your money:

    Coercion

    If he can convince you that buying another product is unpatriotic, immoral, or wrong....you'll buy his! REGARDLESS of the fact that you're LOSING the value for value exchange. His ONLY hope of success is to take MORE of your life than he RIGHTLY DESERVES.

    What's this have to do with ARFs? Simple...

    We're no longer interested in making things. As a result, those very few who try find a market dominated by others...others who have become much better at making things...things WE consume.

    ==========

    We're a nation of consumers. The few producers left amongst survive only by looting. And we dismiss this mindset by calling people foolish and telling them they ''think too much'' (even that form of creation has become something to criticize), and should just leave us alone, because we're doing what we want.

    Truly, a dying nation indeed.

    Yep!

    Bill, Waco Brother #1
    Its easy, just glue all the pieces together, and sand off everything that doesnt look like an airplane.

  17. #17

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    RE: An ARF Nation

    Have you seen the movie Wall-E?
    http://www.bspringall.com/rc

  18. #18

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    RE: An ARF Nation

    I work in IT and as the manager of my dept I have to hire individuals that have the aptitude to get the job done. This involves a lot of technical ability, but also I look for people who have the aptitude to create. Those that can be hands on, and aren't scared to pick up a screwdriver or tear into something to see how it works. It's becoming increasingly difficult to find these people. There is some hope however. Take a look at makezine.com and instructables.com
    http://www.bspringall.com/rc

  19. #19
    Smacka's Avatar
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    RE: An ARF Nation

    ORIGINAL: gboulton

    So I've been thinking about this for 24+ hours now (you knew I'd jump in here, right Chris )

    ============

    Being an ''ARF Nation'' is, indeed, a symptom of a broader issue.

    We don't produce.

    We don't make cars. We assemble them from bits and pieces made elsewhere. (ARDs?) We don't make DVD players either. We'll sure as heck find a way to install them in the cars we didn't make though. Why? Simple...we've spared parents the onerous task of raising children who behave for the 10 minutes it takes to get to the store. No longer need you instill discipline, respect, or courtesy in your child...simply shut them up with a dose of SpongeBob while you, feeling smug in your minivan, flip off the gass-guzzling SUV that just cut you off.

    We don't even grow our own beef any more...instead importing it, along with a healthy dose of Mad Cow, from Canada, processing it beyond recognition, and offering it up to you as a $2.99 value meal you don't even have to quit yakking on your cellphone to consume, on your way to your next important meeting.

    We are no longer a nation of producers. We're consumers and servants. We make life easier, faster, better, more efficient, more comfortable, flashier, quicker, and less troublesome in any way possible for anyone willing to pay our fees, desperate only to pass the fees along to the next internet site that'll offer us whatever ''must have consumable'' we absolutely NEED to own right NOW. If we don't have the money, no worries..an entire industry devoted to making slaves of us all has opened up, eager to see us further in debt at every turn.

    Did ARFs ''cause'' any of this? Of course not. Is their popularity and success just one more thing we won't produce for ourselves, instead preferring to run up another debt, or write another check, for someone else to do it for us? Absolutely.

    Is an ARF nation, then, a dying one?

    It is, indeed.

    Consider what we're saying here...

    We've become so unwilling to COMPETE, on an HONEST level, with the rest of the world, that we no longer even try...not even for our HOBBIES. It's not a question of exchanging the value created our lives for the highest possible value in return...WE HAVE NO VALUE TO EXCHANGE. We've created NOTHING.

    We're so averse to the idea of producing that we won't even bother to do so to fulfill our spare time, or engage in trivial pursuits. We can't, in short, be bothered to create value EVEN FOR FUN.

    Go look in the gas engine forum. There's an entire thread about a new 30cc engine. Its great claim? IT'S MADE IN THE UNITED STATES! The manufacturer BEGINS the thread telling us he can not and will not compete on price...yet offers no evidence he is competing on any other level! His assertion is that of the looter:

    You should be GUILTED AND BULLIED into buying his product, because if you don't, you're UNAMERICAN!

    Ask yourself 2 questions:

    1) Why is ''MADE IN THE USA'' such a ''big deal''?

    Simple...because it's SO RARE.

    2) What would you think of a man who told you not to buy a product made by blacks, jews, women, or tall people?

    Differently than you think of a man who's telling you not to buy a product made by oriental people?

    That manufacturer is absolutely right...he will not compete on price. He hopes, however, you will IGNORE the fundamental FOUNDATION of this country:

    The
    Best
    Man
    Wins

    He WILL NOT offer you the BEST VALUE in exchange for some fixed chunk of your life. That being the case, he's right..he CAN'T COMPETE. His only hope then...the only method he has of convincing you to buy his product is the same method the looter uses to separate you from your money:

    Coercion

    If he can convince you that buying another product is unpatriotic, immoral, or wrong....you'll buy his! REGARDLESS of the fact that you're LOSING the value for value exchange. His ONLY hope of success is to take MORE of your life than he RIGHTLY DESERVES.

    What's this have to do with ARFs? Simple...

    We're no longer interested in making things. As a result, those very few who try find a market dominated by others...others who have become much better at making things...things WE consume.

    ==========

    We're a nation of consumers. The few producers left amongst survive only by looting. And we dismiss this mindset by calling people foolish and telling them they ''think too much'' (even that form of creation has become something to criticize), and should just leave us alone, because we're doing what we want.

    Truly, a dying nation indeed.
    I was wondering how long it was going to take for the "producers" of the really good "pot" to show up. I think I see a lil' "crack" there. [8D] Pass the doob bud...uh, bud...I said pass the doob! Listen Bogart, pass the damn doob, already...

    What a hoot...
    Have Great Day!
    Smacka

  20. #20

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    RE: An ARF Nation



    All this about ARFs and who or what our society has become is on the one hand very depresing, but then again as one said, "Times are a-changing," and time will tell it it's all been worth it. It was at least 10 years after I got into this great hobby
    before I bought my first Kit Plane. Thanks to the hobby magizines like RCM, Flying Models and Model Airplane News, I learned to
    build my own planes. I was already a fair Draftsman, so designing one using what I had learned about models in the magazines I wound up with some very nice looking planes, that all flew very well, and survived many hard landings. They used to design them to
    bounce back. I still have the first Kit Plane I bought, and after 20 years I still like to get her out to the strip and fire her up and go play. I don't see many ARFs lasting too long, but as we are now a "Throwaway Society" what can you expect. I will continue to build a few of my own designs and some from old plans I have stashed away. Good exercise for the brain cells. And guys, fly what you like and enjoy it for as long as you can. The next ones will be the little tennie weinie ones that we can fly in the Living Room while TV commercials are on! Man the wives are gonna love them! Have fun fellows, thats what its all about. Grampaw

  21. #21
    Stickbuilder's Avatar
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    RE: An ARF Nation

    ORIGINAL: MetallicaJunkie

    I love ARFs, and i like kits, but dont have enough time to build, and on the weekends id rather be flying. I live in deep south texas so the winters here are very mild, and there is no building season like up north........... Im sure my attitude will change if i live long enough to retire

    My Lord, call your Senator or Congressperson quickly!
    The rest of us get 24 hours per day. How much are you getting, and where did it go? You've been robbed!

    I live in Florida, and I'll promise you that I have more flying days per year than you do in Texas. I still make time to build. Don't give me the Kids in sports or the job or the honeydo list crap. You don't hold the patent on any of those things. Most of the rest of us raised kids who had extra-curricular activities too. Pretty much all of us had demanding jobs, and don't even get me started on the Honey-do things.

    You find the necessary time to do whatever it is that you want to accomplish. If building a model airplane is not on that list, fine. Just don't find excuses. Just step up and say that you don't want to do it.

    Bill, Waco Brother #1
    Its easy, just glue all the pieces together, and sand off everything that doesnt look like an airplane.

  22. #22

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    RE: An ARF Nation



    FWIW, I agree with both Bill and the Junkie. I live up north, yet have little time spent in the shop due to other things that happen in life. However, while I don't agree with how Bill phrases most things, he's absolutely right. You make time to do what you want to do, regardless of how busy you are, or how long the project takes. A "rattle the box" kit might take me a month to build, while it takes another member in our club our week. Last major build I did took me a year and half to finish. I've had a Smith Mini on the bench since February. Got three more kits and one ARF on the shelf. Who cares how long it takes!!?

    Don't get me wrong. I fly ARF's and enjoy what they give me. But I also love my builds, as they give a different level of satisfaction.

    A hobby, by definition...

    "An activity or interest pursued for pleasure or relaxation and not as a main occupation"

    Looks like whether your hobby involves building, assembling, or just stirring the crap on the internet, as long as it pleases you, its a hobby.

    I doubt the country will fall from it.

    ***edited to reflect previous removed post

  23. #23
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    RE: An ARF Nation

    Many of us seem to have lost the capacity for critical thought...heck, some of us seem to have lost the capacity to contribute to a discussion without snide remarks about drug usage...

    Read Chris's OP again...carefully this time. At no point did he (or anyone who's posted in support of his comments) suggest that flying ARFs will kill a nation, or that the "country will fall from it."

    Indeed, one of us specifically pointed out...we're discussing a symptom, not the disease. We HAPPEN to be discussing ARF airplanes because this is an RC forum.

    Nor has anyone said that if you're buying ARFs, you're killing the nation, or that you are somehow unpatriotic (Indeed, we have ATTACKED the faulty logic behind labeling such purchases unpatriotic.) Heck, I own 3 myself...one of them's my favorite airplane I've ever flown, hands down.

    We could just as easily say "A nation dominated by foreign cars is a dying nation." A regrettably true statement.

    =========

    The assertion here is a simple one:

    A nation that, as a culture, becomes unwilling or unable to produce items of quality, and thus unwilling or unable to compete against those who do, is a dying nation.

    ARFs are but one example of that mindset.

    Money is, at its core, a store of value. (Any discussion of how well our fiat currency of the age performs that task is best left for more politically themed forums, I believe) In and of itself, it is nothing but small pieces of paper or metal. Only the agreement between men of character gives it its role of 'money'. One agrees to accept it from another as a store of value.

    You create an apple. You desire milk. The man who has raised cows to produce milk does not desire an apple. He is perfectly willing to give you milk, but expects something of value in return. Your apple has no value to him. You are at an impasse.

    Enter money. If you both agree that this rock, this bit of metal, this piece of paper, will represent some finite store of 'value', an exchange is possible. You sell your apple to someone who DOES desire it, in exchange for money, and then give that money to the farmer for his milk. He may then exchange that value...stored as money...for the items he needs or desires.

    That's all well and good...but remember here...money is STORING something. It's storing VALUE. Value MUST be CREATED. It does not simply exist...it does not appear out of thin air...it does not come into being simply because you wish it.

    It must be created. Things of value must be produced.

    Don't believe it?

    How big is a federal deficit? How much larger will it grow in the coming years? To whom is the money (stored value) owed?

    WHY do we find ourselves owing SO MUCH value to OTHERS??

    Simple. We don't create any. They do.

    ===============

    By all means, one would HOPE that you desire to obtain the highest quality and most valuable airplane...the airplane that brings you the most fun and entertainment possible...that you can in exchange for your money.

    Forgive the rest of us, however, if we lament the fact that the best way for a majority of this country to achieve that is to ask someone else to produce it.

    Forgive us again if we further lament the fact that most of you don't seem to be bothered by this.
    ‘ǝʌısuǝdxǝ sΔ± dn puɐ dn sΔ± uʍop \'\'\'\'pΗΚ‡ΙΉΗΚŒuΔ± puɐ ʍo1 uǝΙ₯ʍ

  24. #24

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    RE: An ARF Nation

    On the positive side,the increasing number of available control line ARF's suggests that control line exists as a viable market, rather than a dying novelty.

  25. #25
    Smacka's Avatar
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    RE: An ARF Nation

    I do have to give CTDAHLE kudos for at least one thing. He did not hijack the "Boring Plane" thread to state his opinion. Even though I disagree with CTDAHLE and gboulton (?), it does not mean we have zero common ground. I do appreciate that they created a separate thread to express their views on topic.

    Have fun Ladies & Gents
    Have Great Day!
    Smacka


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