QQ Aircraft junk
08-03-2009, 08:01 AM
#1
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (11)
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Mountain Home,
AR
Posts: 87
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
QQ Aircraft junk
Well I just had a 102" yak come apart on the taxi run of it's maiden flight. That about says it . the plywood of the engine bulkhead seperated and the engine fell off. Nice, I had renforced the entire engine box as I normally do but. who woud figure that the plywood would seperate? I understand the business is closed , no wonder,
Wemart
Wemart
08-03-2009, 11:03 AM
#5
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Kuala Lumpur, MALAYSIA
Posts: 10,489
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
RE: QQ Aircraft junk
Looks like you got a bad one. My friend has the same plane and he flew the thing like he stole it. Hard snaps and all. Nothing ever came loose. Someone needs to replace a whole plane for you! I hope they will not say you forgot to balance the prop!!!
08-03-2009, 11:11 AM
#6
My Feedback: (58)
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: here
Posts: 5,413
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: QQ Aircraft junk
ORIGINAL: Bill Martovich
Well I just had a 102'' yak come apart on the taxi run of it's maiden flight. That about says it . the plywood of the engine bulkhead seperated and the engine fell off. Nice, I had renforced the entire engine box as I normally do but. who woud figure that the plywood would seperate? I understand the business is closed , no wonder,
Wemart
Well I just had a 102'' yak come apart on the taxi run of it's maiden flight. That about says it . the plywood of the engine bulkhead seperated and the engine fell off. Nice, I had renforced the entire engine box as I normally do but. who woud figure that the plywood would seperate? I understand the business is closed , no wonder,
Wemart
Really what engine?
08-03-2009, 12:13 PM
#7
RE: QQ Aircraft junk
ORIGINAL: Bill Martovich
Well I just had a 102'' yak come apart on the taxi run of it's maiden flight. That about says it . the plywood of the engine bulkhead seperated and the engine fell off. Nice, I had renforced the entire engine box as I normally do but. who woud figure that the plywood would seperate? I understand the business is closed , no wonder,
Wemart
Well I just had a 102'' yak come apart on the taxi run of it's maiden flight. That about says it . the plywood of the engine bulkhead seperated and the engine fell off. Nice, I had renforced the entire engine box as I normally do but. who woud figure that the plywood would seperate? I understand the business is closed , no wonder,
Wemart
Bill, Waco Brother #1
08-04-2009, 05:50 PM
#10
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Weedville,
PA
Posts: 235
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: QQ Aircraft junk
Bill M:
First things first, I am sorry for what happened, however I am glad that no one was physically hurt!! This is really unfortunate for a few reasons. Please do not take what I am about to write as an insult. I am trying to learn from your situation.
1) QQ Aircraft is no more. There is no one to hold accountable for this very unfortunate situation. I know QuiQue S. would feel horrible about this.
2) I noticed from your picture that there was angle stock around the inside of the engine box. Was there any additional support around the outside perimeter of the engine box? Can you think of anything more you could have done during the build to shore up the engine box? I have a 33% that used angle aluminum and bolts around the entire engine box perimeter.
3) Is there a chance that you installed too much engine and pulled the engine box apart? Please do not get upset. I am trying to forensic the situation and look for ways to improve my builds.
Anything that you may think of will help my future builds. Again, I hate to see your aircraft in this manner, especially on the maiden flight.
Thank you for your help,
Smacka
First things first, I am sorry for what happened, however I am glad that no one was physically hurt!! This is really unfortunate for a few reasons. Please do not take what I am about to write as an insult. I am trying to learn from your situation.
1) QQ Aircraft is no more. There is no one to hold accountable for this very unfortunate situation. I know QuiQue S. would feel horrible about this.
2) I noticed from your picture that there was angle stock around the inside of the engine box. Was there any additional support around the outside perimeter of the engine box? Can you think of anything more you could have done during the build to shore up the engine box? I have a 33% that used angle aluminum and bolts around the entire engine box perimeter.
3) Is there a chance that you installed too much engine and pulled the engine box apart? Please do not get upset. I am trying to forensic the situation and look for ways to improve my builds.
Anything that you may think of will help my future builds. Again, I hate to see your aircraft in this manner, especially on the maiden flight.
Thank you for your help,
Smacka
08-04-2009, 06:29 PM
#11
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Sterling , CO
Posts: 6,059
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: QQ Aircraft junk
Just like Dirt Bike Motorcycles. They are not built to be road the way they are
You take your chances with any thing some one else builds. Build it your self and you will have it the way you want, and no one else to blame
What I don't like is paying for some thing you have to DO OVER in order to fly.
You take your chances with any thing some one else builds. Build it your self and you will have it the way you want, and no one else to blameWhat I don't like is paying for some thing you have to DO OVER in order to fly.
08-05-2009, 09:02 AM
#12
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (11)
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Mountain Home,
AR
Posts: 87
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: QQ Aircraft junk
OK to answer a post above.
The engine is a 3w 106 Ideal for this aircraft and certainlly no too much for it. I never used much more that 1/4 throttle as this was a taxi test before flight.
Yes I gusseted the front of the engine box as well these gussets came off with the firewall and remained on it.
There were no pins or screws into the edge of the firewall except for 1 that was intended to hols a wire clamp.
I have spoken to the folks at QQ aircraft back when I bought this plane , about the wing bracing that it required, I found them to be helpfull and I'm pretty sure they would have offered some assistance???. On the other hand this problem comes from the manufacture on the plywood, and the type of construction used. The fire wall thickness was not a single piece of 3/8 or 10mm plywood but built up from 3 thicknesses of 1/8 lite ply. I was able to seperete these with a knife blade. The first thickness is what failed though.
I have built many large ARFs and have re enforced the engine box on all of them. I just recieved a Lainer 80cc edge from a friend to build and the engine box looks so weak I would be afraid to put an electric motor on it. I'm not sure what motors the chinese use over there but they always build the engine box too light. This one (the qq yak) seemed better . who knew the plywood would come apart.
On Nitro planes I have to re sheet the whole box as the glue they use is awfull .
Your angle alum stock Idea seems severe but probably necessary. The only real solution is to remove the engine firewall and rebuild a good one using real plywood. I don't think Epoxy ever got to China either.
Bill
The engine is a 3w 106 Ideal for this aircraft and certainlly no too much for it. I never used much more that 1/4 throttle as this was a taxi test before flight.
Yes I gusseted the front of the engine box as well these gussets came off with the firewall and remained on it.
There were no pins or screws into the edge of the firewall except for 1 that was intended to hols a wire clamp.
I have spoken to the folks at QQ aircraft back when I bought this plane , about the wing bracing that it required, I found them to be helpfull and I'm pretty sure they would have offered some assistance???. On the other hand this problem comes from the manufacture on the plywood, and the type of construction used. The fire wall thickness was not a single piece of 3/8 or 10mm plywood but built up from 3 thicknesses of 1/8 lite ply. I was able to seperete these with a knife blade. The first thickness is what failed though.
I have built many large ARFs and have re enforced the engine box on all of them. I just recieved a Lainer 80cc edge from a friend to build and the engine box looks so weak I would be afraid to put an electric motor on it. I'm not sure what motors the chinese use over there but they always build the engine box too light. This one (the qq yak) seemed better . who knew the plywood would come apart.
On Nitro planes I have to re sheet the whole box as the glue they use is awfull .
Your angle alum stock Idea seems severe but probably necessary. The only real solution is to remove the engine firewall and rebuild a good one using real plywood. I don't think Epoxy ever got to China either.
Bill
08-05-2009, 09:24 AM
#13
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Sterling , CO
Posts: 6,059
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: QQ Aircraft junk
To sell as low as they do , They ,this means any one will produce a product at lowest cost to able to make the most profit Lite ply for a Fire wall is one thing, Hot glue, and Cheep LABOR.
08-05-2009, 10:22 AM
#14
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Kuala Lumpur, MALAYSIA
Posts: 10,489
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
RE: QQ Aircraft junk
What do you all mean no one is accountable? You purchased it from the LHS, they have to replace it if not money back. I am sure its not of merchantable quality.
08-05-2009, 12:20 PM
#15
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Sterling , CO
Posts: 6,059
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: QQ Aircraft junk
tIANci
Legally the hobby shop is not liable. On most Items it has on it do not return to retailer, returns must be returned to manufacturer service. When a LHS replaces, or returns investment it is PR. They still have to return the merchandise to get credit or replacement. It gets interesting how laws work for both sides
Larry K
I had a LHS at one time
Legally the hobby shop is not liable. On most Items it has on it do not return to retailer, returns must be returned to manufacturer service. When a LHS replaces, or returns investment it is PR. They still have to return the merchandise to get credit or replacement. It gets interesting how laws work for both sides
Larry K
I had a LHS at one time
08-05-2009, 05:15 PM
#16
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Weedville,
PA
Posts: 235
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: QQ Aircraft junk
ORIGINAL: Bill Martovich
OK to answer a post above.
The engine is a 3w 106 Ideal for this aircraft and certainlly no too much for it. I never used much more that 1/4 throttle as this was a taxi test before flight.
Yes I gusseted the front of the engine box as well these gussets came off with the firewall and remained on it.
There were no pins or screws into the edge of the firewall except for 1 that was intended to hols a wire clamp.
I have spoken to the folks at QQ aircraft back when I bought this plane , about the wing bracing that it required, I found them to be helpfull and I'm pretty sure they would have offered some assistance???. On the other hand this problem comes from the manufacture on the plywood, and the type of construction used. The fire wall thickness was not a single piece of 3/8 or 10mm plywood but built up from 3 thicknesses of 1/8 lite ply. I was able to seperete these with a knife blade. The first thickness is what failed though.
I have built many large ARFs and have re enforced the engine box on all of them. I just recieved a Lainer 80cc edge from a friend to build and the engine box looks so weak I would be afraid to put an electric motor on it. I'm not sure what motors the chinese use over there but they always build the engine box too light. This one (the qq yak) seemed better . who knew the plywood would come apart.
On Nitro planes I have to re sheet the whole box as the glue they use is awfull .
Your angle alum stock Idea seems severe but probably necessary. The only real solution is to remove the engine firewall and rebuild a good one using real plywood. I don't think Epoxy ever got to China either.
Bill
OK to answer a post above.
The engine is a 3w 106 Ideal for this aircraft and certainlly no too much for it. I never used much more that 1/4 throttle as this was a taxi test before flight.
Yes I gusseted the front of the engine box as well these gussets came off with the firewall and remained on it.
There were no pins or screws into the edge of the firewall except for 1 that was intended to hols a wire clamp.
I have spoken to the folks at QQ aircraft back when I bought this plane , about the wing bracing that it required, I found them to be helpfull and I'm pretty sure they would have offered some assistance???. On the other hand this problem comes from the manufacture on the plywood, and the type of construction used. The fire wall thickness was not a single piece of 3/8 or 10mm plywood but built up from 3 thicknesses of 1/8 lite ply. I was able to seperete these with a knife blade. The first thickness is what failed though.
I have built many large ARFs and have re enforced the engine box on all of them. I just recieved a Lainer 80cc edge from a friend to build and the engine box looks so weak I would be afraid to put an electric motor on it. I'm not sure what motors the chinese use over there but they always build the engine box too light. This one (the qq yak) seemed better . who knew the plywood would come apart.
On Nitro planes I have to re sheet the whole box as the glue they use is awfull .
Your angle alum stock Idea seems severe but probably necessary. The only real solution is to remove the engine firewall and rebuild a good one using real plywood. I don't think Epoxy ever got to China either.
Bill
I hope you are able to get some form of resolution...
08-06-2009, 02:10 AM
#17
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Kuala Lumpur, MALAYSIA
Posts: 10,489
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
RE: QQ Aircraft junk
ORIGINAL: Live Wire
tIANci
Legally the hobby shop is not liable. On most Items it has on it do not return to retailer, returns must be returned to manufacturer service. When a LHS replaces, or returns investment it is PR. They still have to return the merchandise to get credit or replacement. It gets interesting how laws work for both sides
Larry K
I had a LHS at one time
tIANci
Legally the hobby shop is not liable. On most Items it has on it do not return to retailer, returns must be returned to manufacturer service. When a LHS replaces, or returns investment it is PR. They still have to return the merchandise to get credit or replacement. It gets interesting how laws work for both sides
Larry K
I had a LHS at one time
08-06-2009, 09:07 AM
#18
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Orange County,
CA
Posts: 5,312
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: QQ Aircraft junk
There is no "contractural" arrangement when you buy a product from a LHS here in the US. In fact most manufacturers tell you that for any kind of warranty issue to return directly to them and NOT to the LHS. Since QQ folded up his company to go to work at Horizon there is little that can be done in this case.
As far as quality issues go, it is hit or miss. I saw one of the early Hangar 9 42% Ultimate biplane ARFs lose its engine on final. Just fell totally off the front of the plane. Firewall had split and then pulled off. ARFs are getting better, but like I said, some are better than others.
As far as quality issues go, it is hit or miss. I saw one of the early Hangar 9 42% Ultimate biplane ARFs lose its engine on final. Just fell totally off the front of the plane. Firewall had split and then pulled off. ARFs are getting better, but like I said, some are better than others.
08-06-2009, 09:21 AM
#20
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Sterling , CO
Posts: 6,059
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: QQ Aircraft junk
tiANci
Yes it is hard to believe that business is what it is but here in the states people are different and what I call play by different rulesThey love to sue people just because they can and make money at it. The small LHS has to take care of their customers in order to stay in business. They are not the ones that produce the item but are the end of the line for proffit. What is call a big box store can write off refunds and replacement items, and just throw the item in the trash. The LHS has to get the item replace by the poducer or loose his investment and then you would see another LHS close their doors.
Well I better back off, seem like I still miss my friends from the shop.
Larry K
Yes it is hard to believe that business is what it is but here in the states people are different and what I call play by different rules
They love to sue people just because they can and make money at it. The small LHS has to take care of their customers in order to stay in business. They are not the ones that produce the item but are the end of the line for proffit. What is call a big box store can write off refunds and replacement items, and just throw the item in the trash. The LHS has to get the item replace by the poducer or loose his investment and then you would see another LHS close their doors.Well I better back off, seem like I still miss my friends from the shop.
Larry K
08-06-2009, 02:44 PM
#22
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Weedville,
PA
Posts: 235
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: QQ Aircraft junk
I believe the "out" for any LHS and/or Manufacturer of ARF's is a simple disclaimer in every build manual I have read, whether it is on paper or DVD/CD, which states that the manufacturer has no control over the build habits of the end item user, therefore no warranty is expressed, implied or given. The product has a warranty against "manufacture defects" that are discovered prior to the build.
That is why all manufacturers instruct the purchaser to carefully inspect each piece in the box(es) upon arrival and BEFORE you start assembly.
That said, I have had some manufacturers back their products 100% in the past (not all of them). I have NEVER had an LHS step up to the plate and back a defect issue.
Without a "willing" manufacturer (QQ Closing its doors), what recourse is left?
Have fun
That is why all manufacturers instruct the purchaser to carefully inspect each piece in the box(es) upon arrival and BEFORE you start assembly.
That said, I have had some manufacturers back their products 100% in the past (not all of them). I have NEVER had an LHS step up to the plate and back a defect issue.
Without a "willing" manufacturer (QQ Closing its doors), what recourse is left?
Have fun
08-07-2009, 12:55 AM
#23
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Kuala Lumpur, MALAYSIA
Posts: 10,489
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
RE: QQ Aircraft junk
ORIGINAL: Smacka
Without a ''willing'' manufacturer (QQ Closing its doors), what recourse is left?
Have fun
Without a ''willing'' manufacturer (QQ Closing its doors), what recourse is left?
Have fun
08-10-2009, 12:58 AM
#24
Senior Member
RE: QQ Aircraft junk
For a long time after getting into this hobby I designed and built my own planes, copying the designs that were being published in those days by names like Bridi, Dewey, Kraft and others. Their models were designed for strength, and one thing they all had in common was a very strong Firewall. Made mostly of Plywood, but they were always HARD Ply. I had my share of first time crashes, but in most cases the Firewalls were reusable, after a cleanup of course.
Then many years later I got my first ARF and I managed to allow it to hit terra firma in what appeared to be a minor "bounce," and got the surprise of my life! The fuselage side was
split from behind the Firewall all the way back to the horizontal stab, and the remaining structure was unrepairable. It was all made of Lite Ply! Models of the past would have just bounced, probably broke a prop blade and got grass stain on the fuselage, but they didn't come apart from that. I have gotten some kits with Firewalls that looked a tad too thin, and threw them out and replaced them with at least 1/4 inch hard ply, just for my own peace of mind.
When I read where the Firewall on the aforementioned model was made up of three layers of
1/8 Lite Ply I almost fell out of this chair! No wonder it came apart! I'm surprised it even made it out to the Active Runway. Lite Ply is my main beef with ARFS.
This is my opinion, but I've always been a firm believer in a solid Firewall.
Then many years later I got my first ARF and I managed to allow it to hit terra firma in what appeared to be a minor "bounce," and got the surprise of my life! The fuselage side was
split from behind the Firewall all the way back to the horizontal stab, and the remaining structure was unrepairable. It was all made of Lite Ply! Models of the past would have just bounced, probably broke a prop blade and got grass stain on the fuselage, but they didn't come apart from that. I have gotten some kits with Firewalls that looked a tad too thin, and threw them out and replaced them with at least 1/4 inch hard ply, just for my own peace of mind.
When I read where the Firewall on the aforementioned model was made up of three layers of
1/8 Lite Ply I almost fell out of this chair! No wonder it came apart! I'm surprised it even made it out to the Active Runway. Lite Ply is my main beef with ARFS.
This is my opinion, but I've always been a firm believer in a solid Firewall.
08-11-2009, 12:54 PM
#25
RE: QQ Aircraft junk
Bill !
I am so very glad that it didn't do that while you were starting the engine !
It would have be a major disaster and maybe worse..
So much for - - - 's
My friend has a house full of Arf's and Rtf's that have not more than two or three flights and have been retired for one reason or another some more not even or ever completed ... He is a good rc pilot and is an insturctor, plus I have known him for 35 years... but he has a head as hard as a rock. He does great on the DIY aircraft though.
I've have two ARF's, I have re-engineered but that's enough for me ! Think I will pull them out at the next club meeting and have the safety officers give them full safety inspections and certify them safe. if they are!
Why not have a buddy check them out, you maybe surprised and darn glad to know what may show up.
I just won't buy ARF's anymore period, of course I don't use APC Props either.
Doug
I am so very glad that it didn't do that while you were starting the engine !
It would have be a major disaster and maybe worse..
So much for - - - 's
My friend has a house full of Arf's and Rtf's that have not more than two or three flights and have been retired for one reason or another some more not even or ever completed ... He is a good rc pilot and is an insturctor, plus I have known him for 35 years... but he has a head as hard as a rock. He does great on the DIY aircraft though.
I've have two ARF's, I have re-engineered but that's enough for me ! Think I will pull them out at the next club meeting and have the safety officers give them full safety inspections and certify them safe. if they are!
Why not have a buddy check them out, you maybe surprised and darn glad to know what may show up.
I just won't buy ARF's anymore period, of course I don't use APC Props either.
Doug