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If a treasurer of an AMA club were to steal a large amount of money, what action should take place?

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Old 10-20-2010, 07:21 PM
  #126
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Default RE: If a treasurer of an AMA club were to steal a large amount of money, what action should take place?

but what are you getting for your money...
eventually thats all you'll get from any member. IPAYMYDUES>>TOHECKWITHWHATHAPPENS ...

when you breed that attitude of i'll just pay my dues and fly, THECLUBLOSES.

why voulenteer....
why try to reqruit new members....
why promote the club....
why promote the hobby....
why socialize.....
IJUSTPAYMYDUESANDFLY.


and don't worry , those people will find a new club and those will pass on and the club will pass on too.

SO, don't be accountable, don't inspire a new group with new ideas, and DRIVEoff anyone that may have helped....

YOUTOOWILLBECOMEASOBSOLETEASTHEBUGGYWHIP.

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Old 10-20-2010, 07:32 PM
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Default RE: If a treasurer of an AMA club were to steal a large amount of money, what action should take place?

Quote:
ORIGINAL: Tampaflyer

but what are you getting for your money...
eventually thats all you'll get from any member. I PAY MY DUES >> TO HECK WITH WHAT HAPPENS ...

when you breed that attitude of i'll just pay my dues and fly, THE CLUB LOSES.

why voulenteer....
why try to reqruit new members....
why promote the club....
why promote the hobby....
why socialize.....
I JUST PAY MY DUES AND FLY.


and don't worry , those people will find a new club and those will pass on and the club will pass on too.

SO , don't be accountable, don't inspire a new group with new ideas, and DRIVE off anyone that may have helped....

YOU TOO WILL BECOME AS OBSOLETE AS THE BUG GY WHIP.

I disagree. I do volunteer..I was out there rebuilding the shelters after a wind storm tore the roof off. I gave a teenage student pilot who couldn't afford it a complete ready to fly airplane, radio and fieldbox, stocked with tools and a starter that I paid for out of my own pocket. I'm also an instructor (intro pilot as well) and regularly bring co-workers, their kids, friends, relatives...yadda..yadda...out there to spark an interest.

The difference is, I'm not going to get my panties all in a wad over this thing. I'd rather direct the thought process towards moving past it.....

I could also make the argument that the only people driving new guys off are the folks that corner the new members at the field and try to push their agenda on them because they disagree with the current leadership...that's cancer man...nobody wants to hear that crap. I know I don't...you bring me a solution ?? I'll listen...all you are doing is complaining but can't offer anything ?? go pound sand buddy..I'm here to get my flying fix and I'm out.....
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Old 10-20-2010, 07:44 PM
  #128
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Default RE: If a treasurer of an AMA club were to steal a large amount of money, what action should take place?

WOW, feeling threatned, strike a nerve...

ISEETHATFREINDLYBCFatmosphere shining through.

BUt as it shows on your website... first line ..you pride yourselfs on that welcoming , club....

any clud that has to state that 1st line is touchy about it.


Obut wait you can't even get in unless someone lets you in.

Good luck to your club...AND don't do anything to lose the property.. as you have no money to move.... but i just pay my dues .




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Old 10-20-2010, 07:54 PM
  #129
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Default RE: If a treasurer of an AMA club were to steal a large amount of money, what action should take place?


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Tampaflyer

WOW, feeling threatned, strike a nerve...

I SEE THAT FREINDLY BCF atmosphere shining through.

BUt as it shows on your website... first line ..you pride yourselfs on that welcoming , club....

any clud that has to state that 1st line is touchy about it.


O but wait you can't even get in unless someone lets you in.

Good luck to your club...AND don't do anything to lose the property.. as you have no money to move.... but i just pay my dues .




LOL...no, not "not threatened" at all....just trying to be fair about it..I like a good debate..

The access issue is not by choice. You should know that already...if you did...that's the same FUD campaign that gets your faction nowhere with me and as I believe, most of the standing membership....

Like I said...there are many other options in the area.....nobody is MAKING you stay if you are so unhappy with the product being offered.
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Old 10-20-2010, 08:01 PM
  #130
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Default RE: If a treasurer of an AMA club were to steal a large amount of money, what action should take place?

glad to here that.. and i had and have....

but there are always many factors in joining any club.. or leaving one.

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Old 10-20-2010, 08:07 PM
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Default RE: If a treasurer of an AMA club were to steal a large amount of money, what action should take place?


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Tampaflyer

glad to here that.. and i had and have....

but there are always many factors in joining any club.. or leaving one.

Good. I'm glad we got that resolved. I'll be able to sleep tonight.
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Old 10-20-2010, 08:21 PM
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Default RE: If a treasurer of an AMA club were to steal a large amount of money, what action should take place?



just keep posting..

i'm sure someone can get this thing going again....

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Old 10-20-2010, 08:27 PM
  #133
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Default RE: If a treasurer of an AMA club were to steal a large amount of money, what action should take place?

Often the spoken or written words say things about the writer that he never intended to be part of his message.

This thread has been great to help promote responsible management of clubs in a hobby we enjoy. We all have opinions, lets make them constructive and factual please. Its OK to disagree, lets do it in a mature way please.
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Old 01-13-2011, 12:59 PM
  #134
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Default RE: If a treasurer of an AMA club were to steal a large amount of money, what action should take place?

Well, it seems the alleged thief has been arrested a couple days ago. A story is supposed to be on the news tonight. His name is Dale Spindle, I was told on Bay News Nine between 5 and 6 oclock here in the Tampa Bay area.
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Old 01-13-2011, 01:30 PM
  #135
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Default RE: If a treasurer of an AMA club were to steal a large amount of money, what action should take place?

If you google his name you will find :
http://www.tampabay.com/news/publics...cle1145262.ece
The mug shot below...
INNIS DALE SPINDLE
http://mugshots.tampabay.com/browse/age-range/61-65/
He gave club money to his kids as gifts!!!!, He can't even claim he had fallen on hard times he was just on a spending spree!!!

WOW!!!, I wonder if the state/city and county officials will start to look into All the clubs in the area that are on their lands?
Personally I think the individual stealing the money isn't the only one who should go down, where the heck was the president and vice president?, claiming Ignorance for whatever reason Is B.S. because they are number one in the line for accountability, Hell the president found out when he tried to make a purchase so he also had access to the account and really shouldn't be able to claim ignorance. Who Here really believes in 12 years the president never once checked the balance and realised something was wrong???, If he didn't have access, maybe.
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Old 01-14-2011, 11:58 PM
  #136
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Default RE: If a treasurer of an AMA club were to steal a large amount of money, what action should take place?

Hope you can recover the club funds. It's not always easy. Sometimes you get lucky. I've heard of some clubs having thier officers bonded. Theft is theft, and some clubs have enough money in the bank to have that situation qualify as felony grand theft. Bonding could be relatively cheap insurance against the finacial loss in case of theft. Probably depends on state law.

Last Sunday was a great day for me! Turned in about 26 years of records of paper records and a USB stick with almost a gig of files.

Also turned in my final Quarterly and Year End financial reports to the Audit Commitee. Balance agreed to the penny with the last bank statement I recieved. Bugs me that I had to make a $.02 reconcilliation charge to the check book and financial statement. Turned in my final quartely financial statement to the Audit Commitee. Let me tell you, going computer for the books 10 years ago made both my job and the Audit Commitee's jobs a WHOLE lot easier. Especially since my crummy handwritting has been getting worse since I turned 60.

Tomorrow, Whoops, just looked at the time. It's now Saturday morning, so I should say later this morning, I meet my replacement at the Credit Union to sign the accounts over to him. Good Riddance. At least we are keeping a former president as VP. He also has his signature on record.

Every club should have an audit commitee, answerable to the membership. Helps keep the Treasurer and other officers honest and attentive. I realize some clubs might actually be too small to carry too many positions. We finished 2010 with 118 members, down from previous years.

The club finances should always be open to the membership, and the Treasurer, like all other officers or board members, should always be answerable to the membership. I think our Audit commitee was formed after the second time we had problems with a treasurer.

Felt kind of strange, sitting on the floor watching the officers and hearing someone else read the monthly financial report. I made it out, but when the meeting was called to order, it was his job, not mine. Maybe I'll join the Audit Com.
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Old 01-15-2011, 12:05 PM
  #137
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Default RE: If a treasurer of an AMA club were to steal a large amount of money, what action should take place?

Anyone that holds a "community service" position in a private club, and takes personal advantage as in this case should be held accountable, and prosecuted. These types of positions are the veins of our groups, and should be held in an honest respectable place in our society.

Not everyone is equipped for such positions, as is proven.. and if someone is having trouble in everyday life with such issues as money, this should also be disclosed in some fashion.. background check maybe.. but thats entirely up to the governing body(s). In such as our flying clubs its all to often "the good old boy" syndrome comes out.. "well..I've known him for xx amount of years..." ya know. Nevermind he's got financial woes up the ying... but maybe these things should be taken into consideration.. or maybe this is too harsh.. but its a thought really is all...

The DA's office has many tactics to get to the bottom of these matters, like getting warrants and subpeonas(spelling?) to audit individuals, and organizations.. the thier accountants are bloodhounds..as it should be. Myself, I can't even imagine carrying out anything like that. Those guys in that club were probably his friends..that goes further then law to me... that is personal...right next to blood.......

I hope they get him for everything they find he's taken.. and his kids should give back what they recieved as well... if anything I would hope him to encourage, or make his kids give it back...that would be a start to a loooong road to recovery for this guy... go get 'em.
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Old 01-15-2011, 03:15 PM
  #138
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Default RE: If a treasurer of an AMA club were to steal a large amount of money, what action should take place?

I bet this type of criminal activity is going on in our AMA clubs more often than we realize.
Treasury money being used in ways not approved of by the membership covered up by
"the good ol boys" because they "think" in thier minds..... its "their money".
Gov't, is still gov't, regardless of what size it is.

Just because we are little gov't , does not make us behave any differently than big gov't.
Money misappropriated and used by officers of a club without membership knowledge
or approval is still STEALING. Espeically when its....... covered up and hidden from the membership.

Also don't think the membership always has a clue as to whats going on....
The thieves often control the clubs newsletters as well, keeping the membership in the dark often till its to late.

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Old 01-15-2011, 05:15 PM
  #139
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Default RE: If a treasurer of an AMA club were to steal a large amount of money, what action should take place?

The newspaper article says, "A report says $5,586 in checks went to Spindle's two daughters as gifts."

What made them think they were entitled to cash checks from an airplane club? They didn't have a problem with that?
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Old 01-17-2011, 08:27 AM
  #140
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Default RE: If a treasurer of an AMA club were to steal a large amount of money, what action should take place?


Quote:
ORIGINAL: airkiller

I bet this type of criminal activity is going on in our AMA clubs more often than we realize.
Treasury money being used in ways not approved of by the membership covered up by
''the good ol boys'' because they ''think'' in thier minds..... its ''their money''.
Gov't, is still gov't, regardless of what size it is.

Just because we are little gov't , does not make us behave any differently than big gov't.
Money misappropriated and used by officers of a club without membership knowledge
or approval is still STEALING. Espeically when its....... covered up and hidden from the membership.

Also don't think the membership always has a clue as to whats going on....
The thieves often control the clubs newsletters as well, keeping the membership in the dark often till its to late.


This Is exactly why clubs or ama should limit folks being in office to no more than 2 yrs at a time, always good to shake things up a bit and trust because they're nice and good people but verify because they're human...
This guy wasn't even on hard times, he was just basically on a financial joy ride with the club's funds...
Kevin
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Old 01-17-2011, 10:25 AM
  #141
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Default RE: If a treasurer of an AMA club were to steal a large amount of money, what action should take place?

Term limits do not work in some cases. My club has as much progress squeezing water out of a rock as it does producing members who want to run for office. Generally, we have only one board seat contested per election. Very few want to contribute the time or energy to run the club.

It's the checks and balances set forth by rules and regulations and a good set of bylaws that keeps everything in order.

Bob
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Old 01-17-2011, 11:36 AM
  #142
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Default RE: If a treasurer of an AMA club were to steal a large amount of money, what action should take place?

After observing the meeting I attended, I dont think that anything voted on would pass that the president didnt endorse, including term limits. I had only attended one meeting at this club the month after I joined, it happened to be the one the missing money was announced and discussed. After the first half of the meeting which was spent discussing the money missing, the current board and president were reelected during the second half of the meeting, all in the same meeting. Amazing, Disheartening and very disappointing. There was no time to reevaluate based on this event. The president talked long and hard against postponing the election and spoke to the many reasons that the current president should stay in place and be reelected at this same meeting. If I had been the president, I would have offered my resignation.
After listening to the discussion of the missing money and the reaction to postponing the election, it was obvious that the popularity contest, (election) was under the great influence of the majority of the club which supported the president. The majority should rule. I felt like I was in one of those "Outer Limits" episodes where you walk into a town that looks perfectly normal but the inhabitants are zombies blindly following the spell that was cast on them. It was just so weird to me, now I understand the comments I had heard about the club before I joined. It really is true. I give the current president credit for doing many great things for the club, but this was not one of them. Managing a groups finances and resources is a major consideration in choosing a board member or leader, sorry, an F in that column. Not all, but most other columns I would give him very high marks. I have known him a long time and like the guy. I think he has the best of intentions and is an honest guy. So to summarize, I believe there are people who would like to run for office in the club, but they saw the same thing I did. As ,long as things are the way they are there, I will pay my dues and fly there, I will resist my natural urge to get involved with club functions and just fly and enjoy the good people.
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Old 01-17-2011, 12:42 PM
  #143
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Default RE: If a treasurer of an AMA club were to steal a large amount of money, what action should take place?

years ago i was a SMALL computer club. someone checked and found out that if the total income peryear was less than $2000, we didnt need to register as a club. so the dues was $10.00 a year. every meeting the treasure would have the books on a table open for everyone to see. then we got some money making it look like it was goeing to be over $2000. we lowered the dues to $1. dollar for a while.
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Old 01-17-2011, 01:35 PM
  #144
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Default RE: If a treasurer of an AMA club were to steal a large amount of money, what action should take place?

Moe, I like the way you guys think. With times to tough and many people laid off, I dont know of one club that has been there for their members. This is important, if you dont think so, look at the number of RC airplane related businesses that are having a tough time and the many that are no longer in business. The last swap meet we had that I put on, I decided there would be no charge for spaces as there usually is, if you sold something, then you could make a donation to the club. If you didnt sell anything, you didnt have to spend your hard earned money for nothing. Why arent clubs with money in the bank cutting their members some slack? It seems the clubs just want more and more, time to rething does and such before the hobby gets too much smaller because people cant afford to belong. Times are a changin, clubs need to change too of they will slowly go away.
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Old 01-17-2011, 01:40 PM
  #145
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Default RE: If a treasurer of an AMA club were to steal a large amount of money, what action should take place?

Kevin,
If we had term limits, our club would probably have no officers. Most of us who are officers are in at least our third term. I am in my 6th as secretary because no one wants to be an officer.

We (the full membership, not just the officers) do get a treasury report at each meeting. It includes beginning balance, dues collected, expenditures, and ending balance. In the 9 or 10 years that I have been in the club we've had 3 treasurers and they all have accounted for every penny.
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Old 01-17-2011, 05:58 PM
  #146
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Default RE: If a treasurer of an AMA club were to steal a large amount of money, what action should take place?


Quote:
ORIGINAL: tenacious101010

After observing the meeting I attended, I dont think that anything voted on would pass that the president didnt endorse, including term limits. I had only attended one meeting at this club the month after I joined, it happened to be the one the missing money was announced and discussed. After the first half of the meeting which was spent discussing the money missing, the current board and president were reelected during the second half of the meeting, all in the same meeting. Amazing, Disheartening and very disappointing. There was no time to reevaluate based on this event. The president talked long and hard against postponing the election and spoke to the many reasons that the current president should stay in place and be reelected at this same meeting. If I had been the president, I would have offered my resignation.
After listening to the discussion of the missing money and the reaction to postponing the election, it was obvious that the popularity contest, (election) was under the great influence of the majority of the club which supported the president. The majority should rule. I felt like I was in one of those ''Outer Limits'' episodes where you walk into a town that looks perfectly normal but the inhabitants are zombies blindly following the spell that was cast on them. It was just so weird to me, now I understand the comments I had heard about the club before I joined. It really is true. I give the current president credit for doing many great things for the club, but this was not one of them. Managing a groups finances and resources is a major consideration in choosing a board member or leader, sorry, an F in that column. Not all, but most other columns I would give him very high marks. I have known him a long time and like the guy. I think he has the best of intentions and is an honest guy. So to summarize, I believe there are people who would like to run for office in the club, but they saw the same thing I did. As ,long as things are the way they are there, I will pay my dues and fly there, I will resist my natural urge to get involved with club functions and just fly and enjoy the good people.
That is an extremely aligned club, and does it make you wonder if anyone else had any prior knowledge of this crime? I know I would be disappointed in the system as a whole, and if it would have been me in that prez's shoes, I don't think I could go another day in that position, let alone push for an immediate re-election(even if it is scheduled on the agenda). I mean.. $50,000 or more probably according to the report.... that's white-collar crime plain and simple. Who even knows how long its went on..

The report also quoted the suspect as saying "that's just a piece of the puzzle, they're not looking at the whole puzzle though" what an arrogant thing to say... I mean... there should be no "puzzle" for anyone to figure out... the clubs' funds are just that, and strictly that...no question, no puzzle, nadda. He's a thief plain and simple...an absolute down-right thief.. and then giving money to his kids, now he's even involved his children(however old doesn't matter), but anyone that would take an organization(private or community), and steal funds in any manner is just sick, or evil, or something else is just way way off.... and shame on that governing board... the whole matter in my mind would call for restructuring the body of that club... that of course would take due action from the members that have the interest in it, or maybe alot of their hard earned money, or both... and just might result in splitting up, but I surely wouldn't want to be a member of any organization that endorses that behavior in any way..

My x-wife's mother was convicted of emezzlement about 8yrs ago...she skimmed about 50k(that's what they said, but I'd bet it was more and they didn't know it).. anyways.. she got jail time, probation, and cannot work in any environment where money is handled..she was an office mgr/book-keeper.. and I didn't feel sorry for her like my wife(now x-wife) did.... it created a rift between us, because after all that, and jail, her mom was flat broke..my x-wife wanted to giver her money..after all that.. I didn't .. and still stand by that..my family ended up breaking up over it, and I didn't budge..this isn't something that happens to someone... its something that someone makes happen.. its just terrible..

This guy should get no less.. and I hope they throw the freakin book at him... I really do... its such a great hobby, and the friends I've made are some of the nicest I've ever known.. I would be so offended and pissed off if someone in our club did this.. business is business, and that's what you do in those positions..no excuses, none.. grown adult men and women know the difference.. and you don't do something like this and get away with it.
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Old 01-19-2011, 03:22 PM
  #147
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Default RE: If a treasurer of an AMA club were to steal a large amount of money, what action should take place?

tenacious101010.........I like your description of the members being mindless zombies. I have watched many members turn into just that. They blindly follow their freinds or group and engage in doing things that are completely against normal civilized or lawfull behaviour.They behave in a manner that I also can only describe as "under some spell" like those who followed Manson's group or Hitler himself.

The other concept widely misunderstood when it come to the "running of the club" is that the president is some sort of leader, the board some sort of 'powerful entity" that is to be obeyed ....by the members....... When in fact its the membership that is to be 'obeyed" and the president and the board or club officers are there to do the will of the members. When the members say jump... the president and board should ask how high and when? It seems that being popular in the club environment is more important that being right or doing right. Hence the zombie like... "whatever they say".... attitude that seems to guide some organizations.

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Old 03-31-2015, 05:56 AM
  #148
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We have around 200 members and had that problem. Every Christmas the President would show up with a new huge plane. Our balances ran around 2,3,4k every month. We always had new members, so where did it all go? Well, we got rid of them and put new people in. After almost three years now, our balance is a very good five figure, and that is after buying a new club building three times the size of the old one. We have hd tvs, flight school, refrigerator, microwave, and more. Security system with cams.

1. First, you should have a cpa go over the books from the treasurer every three months. At each monthly meeting the treasurer should be reading balances, expenditures and what they were. The cpa review will verify that. The accounting is supposed to be made available to each member.

2. Each officer is supposed to be bonded and insured against a loss.
3. If there is a suspicion that there is something going on, then the records are gathered and taken to the cpa for an accounting. If he finds irregularities, the next step is to the District Attorney. They will go over the info and determine if there is enough for a charge.
4. Should the DA say there is not enough to charge, THEN DO IT AND DON'T GET SOFT, IT WILL COME BACK TO HAUNT YOU!!!!! NO MATTER HOW MUCH HE SAYS HE WILL PAY IT BACK AND HOW FAST, IT HARDLY WORKS. YOU DEMAND the money within 30 days, put it in writing, draw up formal papers expelling him from the position and club. Let him know that you are filing a suit at the same time for this theft and the return of the money, and that it is either that or the DA and police will be looking for him. You also put the other officers on notice just in case one or more had something to do with it also.
5. Then, if there is no money, then insist the DA do something, you should have enough proof from the accountant for that and the suit. You want to hit all the guilty parties at once. There are several things that you can go after the officers for and you boot them.
6. Restitution is very important and the DA can make sure that the person knows all about it. PAY OR PLAY IN JAIL AND STILL HAVE TO PAY, SELL CARS AND HOMES.
7. ELECT NEW PEOPLE, GET THEM BONDED AND INSURED AND SIGN PAPERS STATING THEY KNOW THE RULES.
8. YOU MUST NOT DELAY!! DO IT IMMEDIATELY OR EVERYONE CAN SIT BY AND SAY THAT IT MUST NOT BE VERY IMPORTANT SINCE YOU'RE JUST MESSING AROUND.

SO, GET THE IDEA? JUST SAY'N.

Last edited by teebox11; 03-31-2015 at 06:02 AM.
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Old 04-06-2015, 08:20 AM
  #149
abelard
 
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Herkybird--

I'll agree with "Contact the police" but not with "the question of the BOD or the officers having any civil liability is probably not fair".

Most of us are brought up with an impression that the law's job is to impose fairness, but it generally only comes out that way for ONE party. The law's job is to enforce THE LAW, and you can't wish BOD liability away just because you think it isn't fair. If you ignore it, you're betting the further assets of everyone concerned that NOBODY will pursue liability.

Short answer: Contact the police and a lawyer. Preferably not Saul Goodman...;-)
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Old 04-09-2015, 07:17 AM
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I spoke with my daughter about this, she was FBI for six years as a forensic auditor. She does not think a prosecutor would look at this unless the money was used to commit a felony and then it would have to be a larger sum. Unfortunately the courts and prosecutors are backlogged with fraud cases. Seems these days that you cant watch the news without seeing this in the headlines. She suggests best course would be a civil action. Unfortunately the prisons and jails are overflowing with major criminal cases guy would probably get a slap on the hand and some probation. Good luck
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