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RE: Why don't many people build RC airplane kits anymore?
Have to say yes, and it's not an all bad thing though. Pride, satisfaction I guess, remember Heath Kit? that was a DIY thing.
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RE: Why don't many people build RC airplane kits anymore?
Wow folks...why can't it just be about the fun of flying. The camaraderie of being at the field with friends. The joy of a successful flight and the sadness of a crashed plane.
Some of you guys got this all wrong. Go fly your planes and remember what its all about! Rob. |
RE: Why don't many people build RC airplane kits anymore?
Thats what I do.
But the question was why don't we build kits anymore. A question with many answers. No harm done. |
RE: Why don't many people build RC airplane kits anymore?
The answers obviously got out of control.
For the record I have been an ARF flyer. To be honest I dread to think of the first plane I tried to build on my own and even more so the ensuing flight.. Not so sure there is enough overhead protection for that event. Recently I have begun to build a Q500 kit with an experienced builders help. Its an interesting process that I cant say I want to repeat. Does the make me lazy?? Some would say yes. I would say there are a couple of sect's in this hobby. Those who build, those who build and fly, those who fly, these skills are not all encompassing to the aforementioned. I would say this is why "many" people do not build kits anymore. |
RE: Why don't many people build RC airplane kits anymore?
ORIGINAL: robking11 The answers obviously got out of control. For the record I have been an ARF flyer. To be honest I dread to think of the first plane I tried to build on my own and even more so the ensuing flight.. Not so sure there is enough overhead protection for that event. Recently I have begun to build a Q500 kit with an experienced builders help. Its an interesting process that I cant say I want to repeat. Does the make me lazy?? Some would say yes. I would say there are a couple of sect's in this hobby. Those who build, those who build and fly, those who fly, these skills are not all encompassing to the aforementioned. I would say this is why ''many'' people do not build kits anymore. I think it's amusing that so many don't want to admit to basic human nature though. |
RE: Why don't many people build RC airplane kits anymore?
ORIGINAL: mike31 Evidently some wish to waste money on cheap junk. But if it was.... 2 of my HK Helicopters have over 1000 Flawless flights... No wear, no failures... They have significantly outlasted some name brand helicopters I have owned... Videos to prove it.. Define what makes them junk in your opinion ? Do you have experience with them to back up your comment? For me they are INCREDIBLYgood value and some of the best purchase decisions I have made in my life.. I'll put any of my HKHelis against ANY RC helicopter in a longevity and reliability comparison.. Not defensive.. just stating facts from my experience... This helicopter cost me $59... [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRaI0t4n5Do[/youtube] I have 12 of them, the least flown one has over 500 flights, none have ever failed... At last count my HK helis have collectively over 8000 flights in 3 years. (I have 25 days free each month so I fly RC every day) That is a reasonable experience base and sample comparison of the HK helis... What is your experience level with HK Helicopters to define them as Junk? Because they are so cheap I literally thrash them each time I fly.. and shake my head when I see people with "name brand" helicopters who are too scared to try anything beyond hovering for fear of destroying $2000 in one crash.. |
RE: Why don't many people build RC airplane kits anymore?
http://www.npr.org/2012/12/23/167285...earn-to-tinker
Here is an interesting program that is going the right direction in terms of kids doing something hands on. Heck the can even get a badge for building a quad copter. I'm a builder but could care less what other people play with, ARFs bring ton of people into the hobby that never would have tried to build an rc vehicle. A high percentage of them end up in the back of a closet never to be used again, some continue to fly ARFs for the simplicity of just being able to go fly. Some of those will become the next generation of builder when they decide they want something not available pre built. Eliminate the ARFs and you are turning away a lot of people who decide to dip their toe into the RC world. Some will jump right in others will just get their feet wet. I think a lot of us who are slightly older got into the hobby because we were expected to do something, tv sucked, no video games etc, we had to make our own fun. Chances are your dad did the routine maintenance on the family car in the driveway, knew how to fix the lawnmower and did regular repairs around the house. You were expected to help. Today Quick Lube changes the oil, it's cheaper to buy a new lawnmower than pay for shop labour and parts, you call the handyman to fix the door handle. You work 60 hours a week, have to take the 2.3 kids to extra curricular activities, finish the report for work by Monday. You open the hood of your car and can't even see the battery to charge it! Kids just aren't exposed to the same things those of us over 40 were exposed to, no wonder the idea of actually building a functional model of something scares people off, at least until they get nto the hobby a bit and find out through experience that it's not voodoo and you don't need a fully equipped shop to build in. A lot of us grew up with parents or grandparents that actually flew Spitfires and P-51's etc, I grew up on stories of the Battle of Britain and flying air cover over the channel on D-Day. The test pilot for the Avro Arrow delivered my grandfathers eulogy, they flew together in the 303 squadron. How could I not be crazy about anything that flies! I was young but I remember the later Apollo missions, People have to remember that a lot of us grew up in a far different time, things were new and almost unbelievable, humankind was taking massive leaps and the newish media TV was bringing it all into our living rooms in colour. In other words it's all good with ARFs, brings many people into the hobby and as long as THEY are enjoying themselves who really cares? Some will go on to become the next master craftsmen and/or pilot, others will give up after a month, some will be happy to have a simple foamy to fly in the backyard after dinner. Electric or nitro, you built or you bought just go out and have some fun, the only person you have to please is yourself. |
RE: Why don't many people build RC airplane kits anymore?
Yes, I agree kids should get out and do something physical...
I couldn't agree more with your comments. Isn't it better they learn to fly an ARF foamie than spend hours on Playstations and Xboxes killing each other? The average teenager is far more likely to try an ARF than ever consider building something out of Balsa from scratch. Just for the record.. I was flying my cheap junk Durafly ARF Foamie P-51 today at a local park.. (it cost me $140 and took 2 hours to assemble) After the 2nd flight I had a number of spectators... One of them, an elderly gent said to me.. "I was ina flying club for 32 years buthave NEVER seen any plane fly like that.".He then commented on how stable, smooth, powerful and graceful my P-15 was... He was absolutely amazed when I told him the price and origin... This one.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nWQVlry9xg 20 years ago, when spectators asked questions I'd tell them my plane cost $1000 and took 3 months to build... I could see every time that people are deterred by those figures... Now, when I say my models cost under $150 and take a few hours to assemble I am always asked where I bought it from..at least 25 peoplehave actually written down the Website Itell them... Tell me which is better for attracting new people to the hobby? Building Balsa or ARF Foamies... My money is on the Foamies... |
RE: Why don't many people build RC airplane kits anymore?
ORIGINAL: combatpigg It was probably either Ben Franklin or Mark Twain who said, ''People will only believe what they want to believe''. There are too many other examples of ''ARFness'' in today's marketplace that would have been ridiculed by the generations of years past. I could just picture my Grandmother paying extra for a bag of chopped lettuce VS taking 30 seconds to chop her own. ..and she worked just as many hours as anyone else. If ARFs like Jimmy Walker's Fireball control line stunter from my Dad's era had appealed to his generation enough to snuff out the average man's desire to build his own model, then there would have been a massive push by the marketeers to flood the marketplace with ARFs way back when. There was plenty of cheap, skilled and idle labor to be had before the war, too. it really doesn't resemble what is considered an ARF today. It required lots of sanding, shaping, painting, etc. BTW, the notion that the average man of today has less time to build than the men of yester year is total hog wash. What a complete joke that is Maybe, maybe not. I know I have plenty of time to build a plane, but then I don't have kids to deal with, and my work is pretty much 9-5-ish. But I can't speak for other folks, and you really shouldn't, either. I do know that statistically, Americans work more hours now than in many other "civilized" countries. I have also read that in pre-industrial age America, folks actually had more free time than they do now. But, no way to prove that. Can you prove your assertion? [/quote] |
RE: Why don't many people build RC airplane kits anymore?
I haven't read through this whole thread but I would assume that it has became a debate about time and/or the lack of it. I believe there are still many kit builders out there, I know I'm one of them. Time is what you make of it. So far this year I've built or completed 4 kits and assembled 5 ARF's. I am now building a Sig Smith Miniplane and have another Ultra Sport 40 waiting in the wings, I've also ordered a Top Flite P51 ARF. So I love both, building and assembling, and sometimes flying.
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RE: Why don't many people build RC airplane kits anymore?
ORIGINAL: 804 ORIGINAL: combatpigg It was probably either Ben Franklin or Mark Twain who said, ''People will only believe what they want to believe''. There are too many other examples of ''ARFness'' in today's marketplace that would have been ridiculed by the generations of years past. I could just picture my Grandmother paying extra for a bag of chopped lettuce VS taking 30 seconds to chop her own. ..and she worked just as many hours as anyone else. If ARFs like Jimmy Walker's Fireball control line stunter from my Dad's era had appealed to his generation enough to snuff out the average man's desire to build his own model, then there would have been a massive push by the marketeers to flood the marketplace with ARFs way back when. There was plenty of cheap, skilled and idle labor to be had before the war, too. it really doesn't resemble what is considered an ARF today. It required lots of sanding, shaping, painting, etc. BTW, the notion that the average man of today has less time to build than the men of yester year is total hog wash. What a complete joke that is Maybe, maybe not. I know I have plenty of time to build a plane, but then I don't have kids to deal with, and my work is pretty much 9-5-ish. But I can't speak for other folks, and you really shouldn't, either. I do know that statistically, Americans work more hours now than in many other ''civilized'' countries. I have also read that in pre-industrial age America, folks actually had more free time than they do now. But, no way to prove that. Can you prove your assertion? Nothing but spin doctoring and squirming on your part here....epic fail dude. |
RE: Why don't many people build RC airplane kits anymore?
ORIGINAL: mike31 Evidently some wish to waste money on cheap junk. |
RE: Why don't many people build RC airplane kits anymore?
Hmmm. ARF v kit buiilders...personally, I would rather build the airplanes, either from a kit or plans (and boy-howdy, there are GILLIONS of plans of just about anything, not to mention designing your own!). I do not cast dispersion upon anyone who buys an ARF...good for them! They're in the hobby, putting $$$ in someon's pocket. Better yet, they hire ME to build them a model, finished to their desired colors, graphics, etc., then I make the money, and I can say, "I did build that!" The owner of the built model has a model he can call his own and be proud of it. Most of the top IMAC/3D Invitational pilots and F3A guys have their models built for them. For me, I take personal pride in my accomplishments. Even though I did not build my full scall sailplane, I do have personal pride in how I have customized the instrument panel, polish the surface and maintain it, just as an ARF owner would. Its all about preference...stay in and cook your meals, or dine out??
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RE: Why don't many people build RC airplane kits anymore?
I started building RC aircraft in the late 1960s. My friends and I would build kits, we would design aircraft, we tried many things that failed, some that worked well. My best design was a circular control line plane traced onto balsa from one of my mom's mixing bowls. It was simple, flew well, and was crash resistant (an extremely important design criteria). We built flying wings. It was great. It took a long time to learn to fly in the era before simulators. It was hard to start the engine. It was hard to learn to fly. It was hard to get the electronics which didn't have servo reverse or limit adjust, to work right without binding, but we worked at it. Many planes had a single flight after months of construction. The only competition for time was school, TV, bike riding, and sports. One guy in our club had what one would call an ARF. We were all amazed at how it only took 20 plus hours to put together after he crashed another one. He was the only pilot at our field that could fly inverted four feet off the runway and the only person I have ever seen fly while chugging Harvey Wall Bangers from a Thermos repaired with duct tape. He flew ARFs because they were quick to get in the air after totalling another plane. When computers became available as kits, we built four of them and then tried to build a flight simulator to learn to fly better.
Well I still build. I still build kits, and ARFs, and helicopters. The thing I fly most now is a BNF helicopter because I can fly it in my front yard. That being said, there is a balsa jet kit on my construction table and a small electric heli. I think that building appeals to a set of RC flyers who like to build stuff. I like designing things. I like modifying them. I enjoy thinking about how to optimize the plane, sometimes it is a success, sometimes not. It is a hobby. If I am in the mood and have time, I buy a kit. If my time is limited, and the vehicle exists as an ARF, I buy the ARF. The choice depends on what I am trying to accomplish. I would like to build a VTOL plane, it doesn't exist, it will likely not be either a kit or an ARF. There is a subset of General Aviation that has the same discussion. Kitplanes Magazine (http://www.kitplanes.com/) shows that building, and customizing, and tinkering are alive and well even in GA. Some people want to fly. Some people want to build. Some people want to invent or tinker. Some do all of it depending on how they feel at the time the VISA card comes out. I would also recommend Maker Faire (http://makerfaire.com/) as a place where people who like to make stuff, and those of us who build RC kits fall into this group, really have a home. The other point is that when I hire an engineer, I find there are many types. There are those who understand the math and there are those who have built stuff. If someone hasn't built things, they don't understand the reality of making a concept real. Building RC aircraft lets me use that part of my brain that needs to build, invent, construct, tinker, engineer, etc. People still build kits, they simply also fly ARFs, BNF, etc to let them have the time to both fly and build rather than just one. |
RE: Why don't many people build RC airplane kits anymore?
ORIGINAL: combatpigg Nothing but spin doctoring and squirming on your part here....epic fail dude] So, no proof. Didn't think so. Get back when you have something better than a gut -feeling, based on "what you see". Dude.:eek: |
RE: Why don't many people build RC airplane kits anymore?
ORIGINAL: 804 ORIGINAL: combatpigg Nothing but spin doctoring and squirming on your part here....epic fail dude] So, no proof. Didn't think so. Get back when you have something better than a gut -feeling, based on ''what you see''. Dude.:eek: Limit your research to post WWII in order to keep it relevant, since that was the golden era of kit building. Forget about pre-industrial, America [insert face palm] since most of us know there weren't many kit builders back then....:eek: |
RE: Why don't many people build RC airplane kits anymore?
You know, many people who own a hot rod didn't build every inch of it. Some build engines, some do the interior, some paint, some do bodywork. They take from the hobby what they like to do, and have someone else do the rest. Why then, is it so terrible if someone else builds it and they fly it?
As a builder, I can only say I feel very slighted by all of the companies that thrived on us builders, only to toss us to the curb and support arf's.... how many new kits were in the latest Tower catalog? But I certainly would not badmouth someone who enjoys the hobby just because they didn't build their plane. My frustration lies with the industry. Why is this always an "Us Vs. Them" debate for builders vs. ARF'ers..... I can't believe this thread is still going actually....... ~Dave |
RE: Why don't many people build RC airplane kits anymore?
ORIGINAL: ovationdave You know, many people who own a hot rod didn't build every inch of it. Some build engines, some do the interior, some paint, some do bodywork. They take from the hobby what they like to do, and have someone else do the rest. Why then, is it so terrible if someone else builds it and they fly it? <<<Who is saying that it is a terrible thing to fly ARFs..?>>>>>> As a builder, I can only say I feel very slighted by all of the companies that thrived on us builders, only to toss us to the curb and support arf's.... how many new kits were in the latest Tower catalog? But I certainly would not badmouth someone who enjoys the hobby just because they didn't build their plane. My frustration lies with the industry. Why is this always an ''Us Vs. Them'' debate for builders vs. ARF'ers..... I can't believe this thread is still going actually....... ~Dave |
RE: Why don't many people build RC airplane kits anymore?
30 seconds of googling produced this........http://www.economist.com/node/5476124
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RE: Why don't many people build RC airplane kits anymore?
ORIGINAL: combatpigg 30 seconds of googling produced this........http://www.economist.com/node/5476124 I think alot of people today would like to THINK they work harder and have less leisure time than their predecessors..but in reality the main difference is it takes a tub of lard more effort to walk 100 feet than it does for someone who is conditioned to doing more work and doing it at a more strenuous level, in less time. |
RE: Why don't many people build RC airplane kits anymore?
ORIGINAL: ArtW I started building RC aircraft in the late 1960s. My friends and I would build kits, we would design aircraft, we tried many things that failed, some that worked well. My best design was a circular control line plane traced onto balsa from one of my mom's mixing bowls. It was simple, flew well, and was crash resistant (an extremely important design criteria). We built flying wings. It was great. It took a long time to learn to fly in the era before simulators. It was hard to start the engine. It was hard to learn to fly. It was hard to get the electronics which didn't have servo reverse or limit adjust, to work right without binding, but we worked at it. Many planes had a single flight after months of construction. The only competition for time was school, TV, bike riding, and sports. One guy in our club had what one would call an ARF. We were all amazed at how it only took 20 plus hours to put together after he crashed another one. He was the only pilot at our field that could fly inverted four feet off the runway and the only person I have ever seen fly while chugging Harvey Wall Bangers from a Thermos repaired with duct tape. He flew ARFs because they were quick to get in the air after totalling another plane. When computers became available as kits, we built four of them and then tried to build a flight simulator to learn to fly better. Well I still build. I still build kits, and ARFs, and helicopters. The thing I fly most now is a BNF helicopter because I can fly it in my front yard. That being said, there is a balsa jet kit on my construction table and a small electric heli. I think that building appeals to a set of RC flyers who like to build stuff. I like designing things. I like modifying them. I enjoy thinking about how to optimize the plane, sometimes it is a success, sometimes not. It is a hobby. If I am in the mood and have time, I buy a kit. If my time is limited, and the vehicle exists as an ARF, I buy the ARF. The choice depends on what I am trying to accomplish. I would like to build a VTOL plane, it doesn't exist, it will likely not be either a kit or an ARF. There is a subset of General Aviation that has the same discussion. Kitplanes Magazine (http://www.kitplanes.com/) shows that building, and customizing, and tinkering are alive and well even in GA. Some people want to fly. Some people want to build. Some people want to invent or tinker. Some do all of it depending on how they feel at the time the VISA card comes out. I would also recommend Maker Faire (http://makerfaire.com/) as a place where people who like to make stuff, and those of us who build RC kits fall into this group, really have a home. The other point is that when I hire an engineer, I find there are many types. There are those who understand the math and there are those who have built stuff. If someone hasn't built things, they don't understand the reality of making a concept real. Building RC aircraft lets me use that part of my brain that needs to build, invent, construct, tinker, engineer, etc. People still build kits, they simply also fly ARFs, BNF, etc to let them have the time to both fly and build rather than just one. I always understood the true meaning of that saying by all those unfinished projects that were listed for sale in the Trade-A-Plane subscription I once had. Bob |
RE: Why don't many people build RC airplane kits anymore?
All I hear is blah blah blah blah blah blah.:(
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RE: Why don't many people build RC airplane kits anymore?
How many times are we going to beat this dead horse?
How many old school guys remember kits of the 70's and 80's advertising a kit that could be built in a week? Was this the beginning? I still build, a lot! ARF's are here to stay - Be happy! Kill this tread, please! |
RE: Why don't many people build RC airplane kits anymore?
So how did your subject of discussion go from the correlation of everybody who doesn't stick build everything they fly being lazy and fat to somekind of off topic concern for the downfall of humanity as you see it , somehow you have failed to defend your stereotyping all of us that do not stick build everything as being fat and lazy, my only issue with you is that everytime this topic comes up YOU and you alone turn it into a bashing session with you appointing yourself the last and ultimate authority on the subject with the less than subtle overtone that anybody who does not abide by your way of doing things being fat and lazy and beneath being worthy of being your doormat.
So let me ask you a question? How do you feel your actions do anything more than drive people away from this hobby with such a negative and vocal outlook towards anything or anybody who doesn't DO as YOU do. Anybody with ANY regard for the promotion of this hobby INCLUDING MYSELF would bend over backwards to help ANYBODY who is interested in this hobby instead of the childish and selfish name calling nonsense" no matter how cleverly disguised" I've seen come out of you, so far I've read a hell of alot of your posts and I can't say as anything you've had to say positively promotes any aspect of the hobby but YOUR OWN and thats selfish as all hell and NOT what this hobby of ours is all about, without positive promotion of this hobby the AMA fails , the local club fails, the modeler fails, the hobby shops fail, kit manufacturers fail, arf manufacturers fail everybody fails. I try to promote every aspect of the hobby because I do enjoy it and try very hard NOT to steer anybody towards ANYTHING they DON"T want to do by calling them fat and lazy or with labels like stupid or whatever else might have been directed at the ARF crowd, I have come right out and complimented the kit and scratch builder guys only to have them come back at me and everybody else who don't stickbuild with some of the labels listed above. If I had to answer the question of why people aren't building kits anymore I would have to answer with there isn't enough POSITIVE reinforcement to do so by those who are currently in the position with the knowledge and desire to make that happen without denigrating EVERYBODY else in the hobby in the process ORIGINAL: combatpigg ORIGINAL: warbird addict Sorry what did I miss I was busy mixing up a batch of beer brew so I can wait six months to drink it LOL You've got a pretty polluted sense of the world my friend , My freezer is full of Deer meat, my bills are paid, I work over 80 hours a week and I only weigh like what maybe 150 pounds soakin wet and very rarely watch TV, somehow in your wild fantastic grip of reality I'm somehow lazy because I don't stick build everything I fly ? Yes I''m addressing you personally and asking, you given the time restraints I and many others have , what is one to do to lift this label of LAZY and obese you have selfishly imposed on everyone who doesn't abide by your vision of how things should be, build from midnight and 2 am only to get up at 430 am to go to work just to be on your favs list, I'll pass thanks, So let me get this straight because you somehow manage to find the time to build and others don't that makes them lazy and obese and because your schedule permits you to do that then theres no reason anybody else should have a reason not too? because if thats the case you lead a very one dimensional existence with absolutely no knowledge of the world around you I'll take a YES or a NO answer to that question. You must think that the statistics that claim the highest obesity rate in man's history is also false..? I'll take a YES or a NO answer to that question. You must also think that obesity does not contribute to laziness..? That it has no effect on a person's energy or ambition..? I'll take a YES or a NO answer to that question. If you DO believe that obesity leads to laziness and that it is at epidemic proportions [such as public service announcements that beg children to get at least 20 minutes of exercise daily, the rise in diabetes and juvenile heart disease]...then explain to me how this problem does not invade the RC hobby at a representative ratio that is consistent with the general population. Please explain how that is possible. I am eagerly waiting your simple YES or NO answers to the questions that were asked of you plus I can't wait to read your explanation as to how the RC culture is totally immune to the epidemic that is by now common knowledge. |
RE: Why don't many people build RC airplane kits anymore?
Warbird, while I will simply say that I understand your post, please don't broadbrush anyone who stick builds as an ARF hater. We don't all feel that way, many of us who enjoy stickbuilding don't have the time to build as fast as we want and like many others, I have a few ARF's too just to get something in the air without speding the time to build it when we pull an "oops" manuver a little too close to terra firma.
I for one want more people in this hobby, I don't care how they get in the air............. ~Dave |
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