Bad RCU deal - BUYER BEWARE!
 

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Bear with me as this is a long read. I was in the market for a used DLE 30 to keep as a spare. I found this one Item No: xxxxxxx on RCU. I often will keep an engine in stock as an extra and it was reasonable at 175.00 not including shipping. I have bought and sold a lot of used stuff on RCU and other outlets over the years and never had to send anything back because if there was ever an issue the seller would take care of it or at least come to an agreement with the buyer. It is like a internal code of ethics that we follow. I know anything I sell, I tell the buyer I will refund full cash if it does not work as I have described it. I think that is good business. The only time I would not is if I found that someone is dishonest with me.

I emailed the seller to inquire of a couple of things - asked about how old the engine was, was it rear carb, etc. He replied back with this exact quote: "Hi I bought this new haven,t run much maybe 1/2 gallon on 40/1 oil iginiton 4/6to6/0 volts thank you". So given that info you would immediately assume the engine was purchased new and with a half gallon of gas we know that engine is not even broken in yet and should be pristine right? I figure at 175.00 plus freight I should have a decent engine at just around 200.00 and ok for a DLE 30. BTW, I paid via PayPal as agreed between me and the seller (This will be important later - read on).

I met his price and finally after many days he accepted and sent the engine to me. When the package arrived it was packed good and I opened the box and was alarmed at the overall condition of the engine. The stand-off mount bolts were rusted, the muffler was bent as if in a crash, engine looked well used (I have engines four years old in better condition) and when I looked at the ignition I noticed the lead was worn and well used and also I noticed it was not a DLE 30 igntion module, but a DLE 20 module.The worn lead wire on the igntion really caught my eye and showed the wear on the unit. You simply cannot hide these things, but I let the overall appearance of the engine not be an issue for me.

Again, I thought no big deal I can just contact the seller and he will send me the right ignition module and all will be well - not in a hurry anyway. I was thinking he probably just had the DLE 20 module laying around and inadvertantly put in the box since they do look alike. I always give the seller the benefit of the doubt - things can happen and after all we are human. I sent him a nice email to let him know the mistake, that I wanted the correct module, and that it was probably an oversight after all we can get it worked out. All I wanted was the correct parts for the engine I had purchased and nothing more.

He replied that he had called Troybuilt models and they stated the modules are interchangeable and they are the same. I sent him an email back and let him know the modules were not the same and even sent him the part numbers from Troybuilt models and Tower Hobbies indicating they are indeed very different ignition modules. He emailed back and insisted they are one and the same. I then went and explained the detailed differences in the modules to appeal to him and it was to no avail. I even asked him if he could contact the person that he shipped the DLE 30 module to and get it corrected. I felt sure the person would not mind and we could get it settled. He would not even acknowledge contacting the person. He even sent me an email and claimed that he contacted Valley View and they told him the modules were the same, no difference.

It just kept going downhill from there. What could anyone do at this point? The more I tried to work with him the worse it got. I began to question anything he was saying at that point and thinking he just got a plane and pulled this engine and put it on RCU just to move it. Yet, I still maintained to give him the benefit of the doubt and trusting him in all this. I kept all the email correspondence and I know the timelines very well. Not sure why this guy wants to be "shady" about all this and not state the facts as they lay and let the chips fall.

Now it even gets stickier than before. Finally after going back and forth I decided to ask him for a refund for the engine and move on to a seller I could trust. At first it did not go well as he went back to implying that the ignitions were the same etc, but he finally said he would refund my money, so I thought fantastic and I could then look for a good engine on RCU. I packed the engine up and then emailed him to let him know I would send it back and for him to use PayPal to refund my money just as I had used PayPal to pay him. He refused and stated that he would ONLY pay me with a money order! He even said that if I do not immediately ship the engine back I will get absolutely nothing!

I had been sensing that something was wrong all along with this guy but never could put my hand on it. You know how you get those gutt feelings that something isn't right? He would never answer basic questions that I would ask him in emails about the engine - kept evading them. If it was a new egnine then why be afraid to say where you bought it, etc.? It was always as if I was in the wrong from the onset of this and nothing I could say mattered.

I saw where this was going and knew it was time to throw in the towel on this one and just take the whipping. I do blame myself as it was not pointed out in the ad that it would come with the correct ignition module, but why would one have to ask for the correct parts with the engine? I tend to trust the seller and I need to learn to be more saavy about such things.

At this point, I am thinking if I send this engine back to this guy, he is not going to send me any money back, money order, or otherwise. He would probably claim that I damaged it then put it in the box or something, that I exchanged the ignitions, or that I did not even send back the same engine. I am basically stuck with this engine now. I plan to take it down, check it over and if the engine is ok I will order the correct ignition for it.

I could never figure out why he would not want to use PayPal since that was our agreed upon transaction mechanism from the beginning? That immediately threw up some red flags. I am so glad I decided not to ship the engine back that now I can at least take pictures to show what was sent to me. I had it packed and ready to take to the Post Office today!

Long story, I know, but the moral is to be careful, check references, make sure you find out about all the components and anything involved in a sale and if possible get a reference of someone the person has dealt with. Give the reference a call and see how the person was to deal with. Also, if you can have them send you as many pictures of the item as you can and detailed close-ups too. If a person is claiming an item is almost new and is not forth coming with information as to where they bought it, I would be extremely cautious. Those are some of the mistakes I made in this deal.

Hopefully my sour experience with this seller can save others from similar problems.

Just curious , Did the time run out for filing a Paypal chargeback ?

And , I see you have provided an RCU item number , can I just search that number somewhere or how else to know who the seller is ?

I only bought it a couple weeks ago. Yes you can search the number and see what it is and see how it is described. The thing is the seller has a great feedback rating and this sort of shocked me when dealing with him. I think he was given incorrect information by someone at TroyBuilt (could have been a secretary for all I know) and just accepted it as gospel truth and would not accept any info coming from me at all even after I sent him the part numbers he maintained his stance. I could have filed a claim with PayPal, but I chose not to as I don't want to bother with it anymore.

The seller has on his profile that he has been in RC building and flying for 19 years and you would think he would be more in tuned with this type of thing. Another thing that bothered me more than anything is that I cannot remember the last time I gave anyone poor feedback rating! I was fighting myself over it and did not want to do it, yet I knew I must be straight up with the info for other folks. He did a rebuttal and most of what he posted was simply not true. I have the email chain to prove that he is not stating the facts. Why folks like this won't be honest is above me.

The dude's emails are just plain hateful and cutting. Here is a quote from one of his emails after I asked him to refund me via PayPal since that was what we used for the purchase transaction:

"you will get the money back by money order when I receive the motor,the problemhere is I posted I DL 30 motor standoffs & ignition module ,you bought it and your are telling me that the iginiotn module is wrong what you received is what I had on the plane and was flying with no prpblems I could have sold this several times but for some odd reason I sold it to you my mistake please mail quickly or your not going to grt your money back.I,am done fooling around with you you can post anything on R/C universe you want,I think you have a problem"

He reads like a lonely angry person to me? Hard to read folks sometimes.

You know what ? Just in reading your write up of this transaction I can tell your a level headed guy and certainly didn't deserve or earn the nasty treatment you received . Most folks who didn't get a fair deal come on ranting and raving , you have laid out a reasonable and rational description of the deal and that itself speaks volumes about your good character . I'm happy to see you not let it get your ire up as internalized anger is one of the worst feelings of all . I really hope when all is said and done that the engine at least runs good so that you end up not loosing out on a good spare engine .

Best of Luck and Happy Flying :)

I was getting ready to say both are the same module. One quick google search proves you are right, the 20cc and 30cc have different timing curves. Open a PayPal dispute and get your money back. Don't lay down and take it.

I appreciate your comments. Nothing for me to gain by ranting and raving and if you think about it sometimes it is just the way things go. I know not all is lost at all and this may not happen to anyone else the seller ever deals with, Who knows? I do have the engine and I will check it over and see if it will be ok. I have done mechanic work all of my life so these engines are cake walks for me. Hopefully the engine is good and most don't hurt the DLE 30s much anyway.

I wanted my experience to help others and to let others know about the seller whether they have the same experience or not, no one knows. His ratings are very good. Also in a way it was to warn others to be mindful of what you are buying. Just think if I had of been smarter and got the seller to let me know what ignition it was before I bought the engine I could have avoided all of this as I would not have purchased the engine without the correct ignition module. I think we all do better when we look at these types of challenges and learn from them.

You may want to post a negative comment on RCU in the Market Place ratings. Just a thought, Dave

I did give him a poor review and explained in detail what happened. Is that what you are referring to or is there somewhere else I should put the info for fellow RCers? That was my first poor review rating for a seller on RCU and I hope my last. It is a shame it had to get to that point.

Yes, they are indeed a different part number, but you certainly can use them on either engine, it is just that there is a timing curve difference on the DLE 20. JediJody is big on pointing this out as he did a lot of testing on these engines. There are several forums that discuss these differences too. Some guys won't even run the DLE 20 module on the DLE 20. Again not a huge deal and I would probably have let it go except the DLE 20 module the guy sent with the engine was well frayed and worn which was the "tip of the iceberg", so to speak.

If you advertise engine with parts that has one half-gallon of gas through it, one thing is for sure the ignition module lead won't be frayed extensively over most of the length of it and look like it was purchased five years ago. I fly with around 80 RC flyers, have dealt with engines all my life, (Certified mechanic for years and currently have five DLE engines on the bench- not my first rodeo) and I can imagine what they will say if I show them this engine. They would say, "Is that one of your old engines you pulled off a plane?"

In his rebutal he reminds everyone that the engine had an ignition module with it and that was all the ad states (He is 100% correct about that). The ad does not state the engine had the correct ignition module for the engine. Again shame on me for expecting the correct parts with an almost new engine. :D I mentioned in an email to the guy that if I use his logic of the engine coming "with an ignition" module as he put it, he could have thrown in a lawn mower module and the buyer would just have to suck it up because it had an ignition module with it.

I have a hunch that this guy bought a used plane somewhere (maybe a swap meet) with this used engine on it and the engine was not new at all as he advertised. I think he flew the plane and toasted the plane (thus the bent muffler), then decided to sell the engine on RCU hoping to get something back from his dilemma. He may have put a half gallon through an already used engine which stands to reason.

BTW, I pulled the exhaust, did not pull the jug yet, and the engine is not bad, but does not look like an engine with half gallon of gas through it. I would guess this engine has a minimum of 2 and probably more like 3-4 gallons of fuel through it. I plan to finish my inspection further when I get more time. I got one DLE 30 that I just completed around 60 flights on it and the the piston and walls look much better.

He did mention in an email to me that he had previously sold a DLE 20 which I think he probably shipped the DLE 30 ignition with that engine and wound up throwing the DLE 20 ignition in the box with this used engine to send to me. When I asked him to go back to the person he sent the DLE 20 to he would never even acknowledge me on this matter.

This is only a hunch and nothing more, yet it does make more sense as to why he withheld info about where he bought the engine new. Again if he had of bought it new, why would he not disclose that info? There are some things in his emails that show some "shady" information was probably behind the scenes in the whole matter.

Moderators note: Please do NOT post specific ad or member information in the forums. It's a healthy discussion to understand that all details should be fully understood when engaging in any online transaction, but please do not post any information that calls out the specific ad or seller. Marketplace ratings belong in the marketplace only.

there is a risk factor at buying used from a person and not a company .. sorry but some of your problem is this factor .. not saying its right or wrong .. but just saying it's a roulette game .. over all you're not out or hurt that bad .. so that is a plus

From my point of view people sell anything for three reasons. #1 reason it is junk #2 reason is they no longer need it and #3 reason they need cash. When it comes to engines they usually are worn out or have been sitting for many years. Buying on this market place or others is like buying a used car "as is" or with a limited warranty.

Luchnia, I feel your pain. Like Zachary is saying, buying used is a crap shoot. Heck, sometimes buying new (second hand) is a crap shoot. Lord knows I've been burned in the past as well. I think the root of the problem is either people are out to screw others with misleading ads to maximize their sales price or people just have different standards as to what condition their stuff is in. I very rarely buy used engines anymore. It's just not worth it. If I have doubts, I pay via Paypal. That way I'll always have recourse. Best of luck to you. Sounds like you have a half way decent engine but an inferior ignition module. Perhaps you can just replace lead wire?

I have bought four engines "new in the box" "no warranty" without a glitch, but I'm batting .500 on two used engines! I bought a used DA-100 out of Ohio in great shape and an evolution 26 out of South Dakota that took a pair of pliers to turn the shaft. I had to fight the (#$%*@^%) to get my money back and finally got it, well minus the shipping!

Just ended a deal over on FG where I immediately paid for the item and after 24 days and still no item delivered finally threw in the towel and called CC company to dispute the charge....they agreed to remove it from my statement.

Oh, I originally paid using CC via Paypal....always do it that way for my own protection....so I filed a dispute with Paypal after 10 days and no item and no communication. After a 'sob story' about needing the dispute removed in order to use money in his account to pay phone bill AND with pictures of the boxed up item and a tracking number, I ended the dispute. BIG MISTAKE....no item ever showed up and tracking number was a phony. So of course Paypal refused any further help, 'because you already filed and ended a dispute'.

Thank goodness for the CC company and the fact that I didn't wait any longer to end the deal

Thanks for correcting that and bringing that to my attention.

Pretty easy to go from someone's RCU name to their ratings to trace back the transaction and parties involved though isn't it?

I totally agree with you guys and really appreciate the comments. It is great that we have a place to communicate these type of problems to help others. I mostly buy new engines as well, only occasionally pick up a used engine and normally only from the guys I fly with as I know the condition. I realize I am not out of much at all as a whole. Heck the whole thing was not over 200 so not a big deal and I do have the engine. It is mostly the principle of the matter really that bugs me.

I really feel for folks that are out of thousands of dollars and time in some of these deals. I remember reading where one guy drove around 400 miles to pick up a plane and when he got there the plane was total junk and nothing like the advertiser has said in his ad. This guy was hot and had every right to be.

To me it is not the one that gets stiffed that has the greater problem (they are only out of some money and time), but the one that does the stiffing has the greater problem. Somewhere down the road that stuff circles back around and comes back home.

A good friend of mine uses a CC through paypal as well and swears by it. I should start doing that too but so far paypal always had my back when it comes to disputes. My guess is with our current economy there are desperate people out there looking to make a buck.

I would wager that he probably responding by saying something like this, "It was fine when I shipped it. I don't understand what could have happened. The engine always ran perfect and no issues."

If you ripped someone off in the market place I'm pretty sure you wouldn't want your name dragged through the mud in the forums now would ya ?

I went back through Luchnia's feedback..... nothing.
I also went back through all the DLE's sold in the last 30 days.... two DLE 20's is all I found.

I put my offer of 175.00 in on 2/11 and it was accepted on 2/16. Engine was shipped on the 19th and I received it on Friday the 21rst and upon inspection and seeing the old DLE 20 module in the box I knew something was up. I immediately sent him an email to let him know that he had shipped the DLE 20 ignition module and even mentioned that is was probably a mistake and I totally understood how it could have happened.

He even acknowledged that he had shipped the wrong module to another buyer and states he never heard back from the guy, which later he denies it was the wrong module saying they are one and the same. Here is a quote from one of his emails verifying he shipped it to someone else: "Hi I sold a dl 20 to someone else I guess Ishipped you the wrong one I thought I ran this motor with this module I never heard back from the guy I sold the 20 to.I will check with troy built is Sarasota Monday I,ll let you know" (Bold and underline my emphasis)

Through all of this the fellow never once was willing to work this out and never would discuss working with the person that purchased the DLE 20. It was as if it never happened and what did TroyBuild have to do with any of this? He was trying to get Troybuilt to say they were the same modules to somehow convince me to accept the old module, yet TroyBuilt list different part numbers for them. When you think about it it's almost laughable! ;)

The item was advertised as DLE/30 Engine - RTR and described as: "Engine Almost New less than 1/2 gallon of gas ran thru engine;175.00 plus shipping thanks"

I kind of read through a lot of this fast but didn't see anything from you about just going ahead with a PayPal dispute. The item you received was misrepresented and not in the condition advertised. You should be able to get a refund and they will walk you through the process. Please don't tell me you sent the payment as "sending money to family or friends" ??? Then you'd have no recourse. It shouldn't be on your shoulders to fix this obviously well used engine.....Shoo

Not quite understanding the logic here.......if I want to check on a buyer or seller the first place I dig is into that person's ratings. It doesn't appear that the seller in this case left any rating for the buyer to explain his side of the story ..... that's a red flag for me, unless of course RCU has removed that rating for some reason? If there's no rating that I can trace back to the seller, nor an item number that allows me to do so, than how am I supposed to make an informed decision.

RCU I have to totally disagree with you on this one.....there are plenty of incidents of negative ratings back and forth between buyer and seller that exist and that I can use to make a decision, allowing me to be the judge is the only way that I'll feel 'relatively' safe continuing to make deals here or on any other site

I agree, buying used from someone you don't know or even see face to face has risks, but that is something all of us do here for years and we have grown to expect better from members of our tight RC community.
But that doesn't mean you should swallow it, get a complaint going through pay pal.
I am with you Luchnia.