RE: Don Muddiman Flying Machine
 

I'm using the old wing. See post #98. When the old FM kissed the ground, only the fuse got DESTROYED! Nothing happened to the wing.

RE: Don Muddiman Flying Machine
 

O ok cool :D I also had that happen once except the exact opposite, I had a MID AIR with my sig kougar vs a patriot..:(I lost the wing and the fuse stayed in tack:). Happened years ago right over the runway at Markham when we usted to fly off the right side. Hope to fly with ya soon! :eek:

RE: Don Muddiman Flying Machine
 

Any update on the Lazer works short kits??

Paul

RE: Don Muddiman Flying Machine
 

I don't have time to go back and find the post, but I think Don Muddiman said Eddie at Lazer Works, www.lazer-works.com , would be the source for the short kits. You might try calling Eddie.

RE: Don Muddiman Flying Machine
 

I NEED HELP!!!!!!!!

I ordered as short kit from Don, and somehow managed to lose the INSTRUCTION SHEET AND MATERIAL LIST ON THE BACK!!!! I think my wife scooped them up and ran them through the paper shredder.........

Could one of my fellow Flying Machine Freaks please send me a copy of the instructions....I have everything else.


Thanks in advance

[email protected]

RE: Don Muddiman Flying Machine
 

RC Maniac
Email sent :D

RE: Don Muddiman Flying Machine
 

Lom
E-Mail received...

THANK-YOU!!!:D:D:D

RE: Don Muddiman Flying Machine
 

Not to hijack this post, but those of you who are interested in high speed aerobatics might want to check out my recent post under extreme speed prop planes entitled "Roger Purcell's Scream Machine." Pics and some info!!

RE: Don Muddiman Flying Machine
 

OOOH!! I want to jump on the bandwagon. I just finnished mine and am waiting for the wind to cooperate so I can fly this thing. This is my first scratch built plane, the only mod I did was to mount hatch mounted servos for ailerons and a 11oz tank. It has a OS 46SF that was well broken in on my ultrastick and I put a Pipe on it with a 10x7 APC.

RE: Don Muddiman Flying Machine
 

Can someone please explain : In reference to Glassing the wings center section
What Glass they are using on the center section (Brand)
What Resin they are using
What method they use to do this part of the build (with a neat clean result, one piece or 2 pcs, resin first and then glass follwed by more resin ect).

I used the 6oz with thinned out Z-Poxy and had one Hell of a time getting this stuff to "Wet Thru" and adhere to the sheeting. I eventually got it to work but it seemed way too difficult than it should be. I know what a lot of you are going to say, "It's not a show piece", well I know that But there has got to be a way to get this heavy glass to smooth out and go on easier than what I experienced with this area.

Thanks

Nice job spadeng (your center section looks to be a good example of the results I'm looking for).

Lom

RE: Don Muddiman Flying Machine
 

Well, I will tell you what I do when glassing all wings. One, is use the Z-poxy finishing resin, thats all I use, period. One thing that works great though is to add heat to it when you do it. What I do is mark my cloth, and use a bit of CA where my mark lines are. Then cut it (the CA keeps it from fraying and seperating when your cutting the fibers). Then, I spray it with a light coat of 3M-77 spray adhesive, and stick it in place. After that, I mix the finishing resin, and spread it on with a disposable flux-brush. Then, I get the heat gun out, and heat it up as I spread it around (it will literally spread like water when you do this), and then squeegee it off with a playing card. You end up with very little epoxy applied, and you squeege most of it back off (as you will see if you try this method). It works great, and its the method I use every time. The CA'd edges of the fiberglass will leave a small ridge, but if you sand that down, there should be very little sanding as when the heat is applied to the epoxy resin, it will flow and fill in the low spots. I guarantee it will be fully saturated with this method.......

Hope this helps,

Dave

RE: Don Muddiman Flying Machine
 

oh,and you don't need super heavy cloth, 2 oz. cloth is usually plenty, brand is irrelevant (or at least it seems to me, I have never had an issue with any brand). I also use carbon fiber strips when building a Q500, Hots, or Flying machine type of plane just for a bit more rigidity to the wing. I use a few thin strips between the sheeting and foam on a foam core wing, or on the spars of a built-up wing. It does wonders for strength.

Dave

RE: Don Muddiman Flying Machine
 

Dave,

What would you say to using NO fiber glass......instead, a carbon rod spar installed through the wing ribs?? I would really like to shave some weight,
and I hate using resin if I don't have to....

What do you think???

RE: Don Muddiman Flying Machine
 

Iuse a method similar to ovationdave, Icut the glass so one piece will wrap around the wing, I start on the side that is covered by the fuse. Ispray the cloth with spray adhesive, and smoothen it out on the wing. Iuse a 1" foam brush and West System Epoxy, Iapply the epoxy with a blotting action to keep from separating the fibers at the edge. It only took about 10 minutes to glass the center section, And as previously said the 6 oz may be a little heavy. the foam brush also helps to keep the excess off.
ED

RE: Don Muddiman Flying Machine
 

Well you know guys all I read on this Flying machine, it drives home the fact of NOT deveating from the plans or building instructions. These call specifically for 6 oz. glass to be used and when I got a hold of this stuff my first comments were, this stuff seems to be way overkill BUT this is what they call for so I'm not going to devieate from that and used it. Now I hear there is 2 oz being used with out any bad results. Right wrong or indifferent, I didn't want to re-invent the wheel on this so thats why I asked. I thought about the C.Fiber route but I wanted to stick to the original plans again because it was proven and I didn't want any bad results in the air.
Has anyone just glassed the whole wing with 3/4 oz and used thin C.Fiber layed on the Spars? This seems like it would be more than strong enough....no?

Thanks again
Lom

RE: Don Muddiman Flying Machine
 

Now that would be OVERKILL!!!!!!:D

RE: Don Muddiman Flying Machine
 

I totally understand what your saying, and would probably do the same (follow the instructions) If someone in a forum, who I don't really know told me different. The only thing I would say is that, from my perspective, when I add the carbon fiber strips to the spars, I think there is enough strength added that way that I wouldn't use 6oz cloth, seems like a lot, but if you don't do that, stick to the plans. Either way, try the epoxy method on a piece of scrap, and you'll see what I mean.

I will say that after I thought about it, my quickee 500 has you do two 2oz layers, one about twice as wide as the other (first layer) and one that is only an inch or two wider than the fuse at the leading edge, and tapers back to the trailing edge to be about 1" wider than the fuse at the rear. (both pieces were a "V" shape from front to back).

The carbon fiber I use is the super thin IRON-on strips that are about 1/4 inch wide. I laminate both sides of the upper and lower spars with them before I install the spar on the ribs. It makes the spar really strong. You just have to make sure its straight when you apply the CF, and then I saturate it with CA.

I guess if you like glassing, you could do the whole wing, but I never have.

Dave

RE: Don Muddiman Flying Machine
 

Thats pretty much the way I did mine with the expoxy and heat gun but that 6 oz stuff is tuff to get it to soak thru believe me. Where do you get your C.F strips from?
I may just build another wing for back up and use the C.F. method with 2 oz. cloth. How wide did you make yours? Was this used on a Flying machine or just the Q500's?
Thanks Dave.

Lom

RE: Don Muddiman Flying Machine
 

Just remember that its critical to use the z-poxy finishing resin, it is much thinner to begin with, if your using regular epoxy its just too thick. You can always put down a layer of epoxy prior to laying the glass down too. I know if the glass has a real tight weave it can be hard to saturate.

The CF strips I used I got in Toledo years ago, the name on the carbon is from a place called "California Carbon" in Jamul Ca. But I can't seem to find them on the web.

On my Lanier Dominator Q500 plane, the first layer of cloth is about 14" wide on the LE, and 6" on the TE. The second layer is about 9" wide on the LE and 3" on the TE. I did something similar on my last Flying machine. One thing too is that the original (my first) Flying Machine had a Foam wing, on that, I laminated strips of the Carbon Fiber between the foam and the sheeting, on the newer "built up" wing, I will do the thing with the spar being laminated between the strips. But I should say I have not built the Flying machine yet with the built up wing to "validate" it, but that is what I will be doing.

Dave

RE: Don Muddiman Flying Machine
 

So when you say laminated between the strips, are you meaning that if the spar is to be a 1/4 sq. you will laminate 2 1/8 x 1/4 with the C.F. in between them?
I was and have just layed the C.F strips on the top & btm of the 1/4 sq. spars and CA'd them that way. I was just up Toledo yesterday but did not think of picking some of that C.F up [:@] but I did pick up some Zpoxy resin :D
I'll do some surfin' and look for some, I have to place an order for some balsa so hopefully I can just add it to the order.

Lom

RE: Don Muddiman Flying Machine
 

Here is a pic of the dominator that I glassed in the center using this method.....

RE: Don Muddiman Flying Machine
 

The carbon fiber I am using is paper thin, so yes, I am doing what you are. I just refered to it as laminating because its a carbon fiber-spar-carbon fiber laminated stick when your done. Its just a 1/4" spruce spar to start with. I was a bit disappointed in Toledo this year. Just didn't seem the swap shop had as much, maybe I am just used to it. Lots of the same stuff. I noticed the absense of any turbine stuff there this year too. I wonder if that has to do with the pending FAA regulation stuff?\

Dave

RE: Don Muddiman Flying Machine
 

Nice job on the Q500, I like the colors.

The Swap was definetly way down! The Jet tables were completely empty! I noticed they lowered the cash amount for winning. When I got second in 2009 in the sport class it paid more then than this year. Not sure it's worth it anymore. The crowd and vendors were most definetly down this year.
So are you just laminating 2 sides or all 4?

Lom

RE: Don Muddiman Flying Machine
 

ah man that thing looks GREAT! WOW I LOVE IT!!!!!!!

RE: Don Muddiman Flying Machine
 

I only do 2 sides of each spar, and then put one carbon side towards the rib, and the other out, thats where you want the strength. If you put it so the carbon is sideways, the spar could still bend up and down, remember the CF simply doesn't stretch, but it has no strength sideways. Thats why tubes are nice because they provide stiffness in all directions. When you use the thin stuff, you just have to plan accordingly.

Did you see the big "Cobra 400"....that was a really sweet plane, he did a super job on that.

~D