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Glassing 1st Warbird, thin epoxy or not?

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Old 10-11-2011, 04:12 PM
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dave_anderson
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Default Glassing 1st Warbird, thin epoxy or not?

Hello, I'm about to start glassing a TF P-51 GS. I have my .75 oz cloth and my Pacer Z-Poxy laminating resin ready to go. I have read in a couple places to thin the epoxy with denatured alcohol, but in other threads, thinning is not mentioned.

What's the concensus? To thin... or not to thin... that's the question!

It will be a gasser, painted with latex or enamel.
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Old 10-11-2011, 04:27 PM
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Default RE: Glassing 1st Warbird, thin epoxy or not?

I thin mine some do some don't I thin mine so I can paint through the cloth
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Old 10-11-2011, 04:54 PM
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Default RE: Glassing 1st Warbird, thin epoxy or not?

I thin mine and paint on the cloth also. However I do seal the wood with nitrate dope so it wont soak in the heavy epoxy. The nitrate dope is light and easy to sand. Epoxy is heavy and hard to sand.
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Old 10-11-2011, 04:54 PM
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Default RE: Glassing 1st Warbird, thin epoxy or not?

I do not thin mine. Reason being, the denatured alcohol allows the resin to soak in more, and makes the epoxy more "gummy". I also quit using the pacer finishing resin, and started using the US composites 635 thin "laminating" resin. It has a 30 minute pot-life and works better for wetting out the cloth and gives a tougher finish.
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Old 10-11-2011, 05:23 PM
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Default RE: Glassing 1st Warbird, thin epoxy or not?

This was just recently discussed in this RCU thread: http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_10750986/tm.htm

What is an epoxy finishing resin?

BTW, I think that most people feel the need to the thin their resin because they are using poor resins. Quality laminating resins needs no thinning to easily saturate fabric.

Adam
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Old 10-11-2011, 07:54 PM
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Default RE: Glassing 1st Warbird, thin epoxy or not?


Quote:
ORIGINAL: wyowindworks

This was just recently discussed in this RCU thread: http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_10750986/tm.htm

What is an epoxy finishing resin?

BTW, I think that most people feel the need to the thin their resin because they are using poor resins. Quality laminating resins need no thinning to easily saturate fabric.

Adam
I would agree here. The method I use is to use quality resin, mixed correctly and cured at a temp above 65 degrees. Once the cloth is wetted out I blot the excess resin out with a paper towel. After 24 hours Ihave a surface that requires little sanding and mostly just the overlaps. Once smoothed out with 150 grit, I wipe on another thin coat of resin, just enough to get the gloss back. This fills in any weave that needs it and is lighter then using primer as primers contain clay. Once happy with the surface it is off to primer. The pictured airplane was my last project glassed and painted this way.




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Old 10-12-2011, 04:12 AM
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Default RE: Glassing 1st Warbird, thin epoxy or not?

Quote:
ORIGINAL: wyowindworks

What is an epoxy finishing resin?
It's an epoxy that cures to a harder surface that is easy to sand. It's usually to brittle use in fiberglass cloth. You'd use regular epoxy to build the fiberglass part then finishing resin for a easily sanded filler coat. Like other have said regular epoxy is kind of elastic so it can be a pain to sand.

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXCX58&P=FR
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Old 10-12-2011, 05:39 AM
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Default RE: Glassing 1st Warbird, thin epoxy or not?


Quote:
ORIGINAL: speedracerntrixie


Quote:
ORIGINAL: wyowindworks

This was just recently discussed in this RCU thread: http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_10750986/tm.htm

What is an epoxy finishing resin?

BTW, I think that most people feel the need to the thin their resin because they are using poor resins. Quality laminating resins need no thinning to easily saturate fabric.

Adam
I would agree here. The method I use is to use quality resin, mixed correctly and cured at a temp above 65 degrees. Once the cloth is wetted out I blot the excess resin out with a paper towel. After 24 hours I have a surface that requires little sanding and mostly just the overlaps. Once smoothed out with 150 grit, I wipe on another thin coat of resin, just enough to get the gloss back. This fills in any weave that needs it and is lighter then using primer as primers contain clay. Once happy with the surface it is off to primer. The pictured airplane was my last project glassed and painted this way.




That is one cool bird! Is it your design? It looks like a vintage pattern ship combined with a Warbird. Very cool.
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Old 10-12-2011, 06:16 AM
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Default RE: Glassing 1st Warbird, thin epoxy or not?



Skip to 3:00 mins to see the glassing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uOoFbz3eLQ
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Old 10-12-2011, 06:34 AM
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Default RE: Glassing 1st Warbird, thin epoxy or not?


Quote:
ORIGINAL: AmishWarlord

Quote:
ORIGINAL: wyowindworks

What is an epoxy finishing resin?
It's an epoxy that cures to a harder surface that is easy to sand. It's usually to brittle use in fiberglass cloth. You'd use regular epoxy to build the fiberglass part then finishing resin for a easily sanded filler coat. Like other have said regular epoxy is kind of elastic so it can be a pain to sand.

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXCX58&P=FR
I see. I've just never heard the term before when refering to an epoxy laminating resin. It seems like a throw back to polyester. When a polyester resin cures it cures with tacky surface when exposed to ambient air, though the resin just below the surface has cured nice and hard. Additional layers can just be added directly to this tacky surface and still get a good bond. When one wants a final layer that isn't tacky, wax is added to the polyester. The wax migrates to the surface of the resin and creates a seal to the abient air. This causes the resin to cure with a hard surface. The wax needs to be sanded an cleaned away if any painting or bonding needs to happen. Polyester that comes prepackaged with wax is called a finishing resin.

Is the "regular stuff" like a 30 minute bonding resin? That sounds like agony to use.

I've used MGS L285, Resin Research 2070, US Composites 635, MAS, Adtech 820, and Proset epoxy. These are all true laminating epoxy resins. They are used to laminate fiber reinforcements and they still sand to a white dustly powder.

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Old 10-12-2011, 07:58 AM
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Default RE: Glassing 1st Warbird, thin epoxy or not?

Well, I took a deep breath and started. I did all the hatches and bottoms of the ailerons and flaps. It looks like it ought to. I'll know more in a few hours. I used the epoxy w/'some' denatured alcohol. When there are two sides to an issue... split the difference! So far so good. It's a lot easier than I thought.
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Old 10-12-2011, 08:00 AM
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Default RE: Glassing 1st Warbird, thin epoxy or not?

Yeah this is all old school stuff.

There is newer and better stuff but old school seems simpler.

Two 9 oz bottles of epoxy mixed 50/50 seem easier for the hobbyist to deal with than one gallon of resin and 1oz oz of harder tha needs to be added by a 243 to 1 weight ratio. LOL
Just speaking for my self though, lots of guys love to use the commercial stuff and have wonderful results.

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Old 10-12-2011, 08:55 AM
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Default RE: Glassing 1st Warbird, thin epoxy or not?


Quote:
ORIGINAL: AmishWarlord

Yeah this is all old school stuff.

There is newer and better stuff but old school seems simpler.
If it works....well....then it works. Old school has got to be better than no school.



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Old 10-12-2011, 03:02 PM
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Default RE: Glassing 1st Warbird, thin epoxy or not?


Quote:
ORIGINAL: wyowindworks


Quote:
ORIGINAL: AmishWarlord

Yeah this is all old school stuff.

There is newer and better stuff but old school seems simpler.
If it works....well....then it works. Old school has got to be better than no school.




It's funny how the equipment I build for military aircraft uses " Old School " tech lol. I must mix 10-20 batches of resin each day and use 8 different products in the process. When mixed correctly and cured at an elevated temp you just can't beat real epoxy resins. Thinning with alcohol will leave the surface gummy. You will see this when you try to sand.


Dave, yes that is my own design. It's a WW2 Macchi 202 warbird tweaked for racing here in Norcal.

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Old 10-13-2011, 12:11 AM
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Default RE: Glassing 1st Warbird, thin epoxy or not?


Quote:
ORIGINAL: speedracerntrixie


Quote:
ORIGINAL: wyowindworks

This was just recently discussed in this RCU thread: http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_10750986/tm.htm

What is an epoxy finishing resin?

BTW, I think that most people feel the need to the thin their resin because they are using poor resins. Quality laminating resins need no thinning to easily saturate fabric.

Adam
I would agree here. The method I use is to use quality resin, mixed correctly and cured at a temp above 65 degrees. Once the cloth is wetted out I blot the excess resin out with a paper towel. After 24 hours I have a surface that requires little sanding and mostly just the overlaps. Once smoothed out with 150 grit, I wipe on another thin coat of resin, just enough to get the gloss back. This fills in any weave that needs it and is lighter then using primer as primers contain clay. Once happy with the surface it is off to primer. The pictured airplane was my last project glassed and painted this way.




What a finish! Awsome looking plane. What plane is that?
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Old 10-13-2011, 04:52 AM
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Default RE: Glassing 1st Warbird, thin epoxy or not?

Nice plane!

http://www.aviationtrivia.info/Macchi-C-202.php
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