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  1. #1
    warbird_1's Avatar
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    Klass Kote paint issues

    Before i begin i want to say that i'm in no way degrading Klass kote Products. i have an issue that i need help in understanding. i'd like to start off by by saying that i really like KK paints. they are really good however i have a strange situation going on. i gave my byron AT-6 a final coat of paint this week. aluminium # 80 paint went on great and nice and even " that's saying something for silver colors" i let the plane sit for 24 hours and i started putting markings on like anti glare panel and foot treads on the wings. i put some fine line tape down and had to put it to preposition it . when i did the paint pulled. i also was able to pull paint from other area's as well using duct tape. talking to kk guys it shouldn't have. i used krylon and and another brand that i can't remember. i used bomb cans only because of the nature of the build. after blending an area i like to shoot a light coat of primer on it so i can tell if it ok then i move on to the next area and so on. i'd like to get this forum going to see if anyone else might have had an adhesion problem . the folks at KK said i'm the first to ever report any thing like this to them . the goal is to try to find out what happened and why to avoid it happening to me again or someone else. BTW the primer in question was sprayed 6 mouths ago and was cured.
    Contest Director /Turbine pilot/ P-38 Brotherhood/Scratch Builders make their own Destiny

  2. #2
    Randy Etken's Avatar
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    RE: Klass Kote paint issues

    It is Epoxy Paint, needs full 7 days to cure, not 24 hours. That is my guess.
    Randy E.
    www.Q500Racing.com

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    RE: Klass Kote paint issues

    I don't think the 24 hrs is the problem.

    The part that jumps out to me is that the primer is 6 months old. By any chance did you do any thing to scuff/sand the cured primer to give some tooth for the paint to grab on to? I am also assuming that you thoroughly degreased the surfaces prior to shooting the aluminum?

    The only time I have adhesion trouble with the KK (or anything for that matter) is when the surface cleaning is inadequate and I might get very small bits that come up with the tape. Usually on fabric is the places where this bites me.

    Jeff


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    RE: Klass Kote paint issues

    I thought the same thing.  Did the primer get sanded with 400 grit and not higher and cleaned before shooting the KK?

    Adam

  5. #5
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    RE: Klass Kote paint issues

    I read through the thread again and really didn't see where it is mentioned about what kind of primer was used. Some primers and topcoats just won't adhere. I remember doing a repair job on a painted Comp ARF. I tried to do a spot repair on the paint and got lots of lifting around the edges. I ended up heating up the surface and peeling off the paint in sheets like Monokote. Painted the whole airplane. I later found out the the primer was lacquer and was top coated only after 12 hours. Usually when one is shooting a specific type of paint, it's better to stich with the same chemical base through out the project.

  6. #6
    warbird_1's Avatar
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    RE: Klass Kote paint issues


    ORIGINAL: Randy Etken

    It is Epoxy Paint, needs full 7 days to cure, not 24 hours. That is my guess.
    according to the sheet and talking to KK 24 hours was ok. i did scotchbrite the plane and cleaned it good. like i said i used krylon. the funny thing is when i tried to use some of KK's thinner to clean the plane , it started to take the primer off so i stopped. you would think that if the thinner was trying to take off the primer , it would have allowed the paint to bite in . really strange
    Contest Director /Turbine pilot/ P-38 Brotherhood/Scratch Builders make their own Destiny

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    RE: Klass Kote paint issues

    I have ceased to use Krylon ever since they switched to the new formula a few years ago. It's total and absolute junk. The problems I've experienced are too long to type.

  8. #8
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    RE: Klass Kote paint issues

    Ok I got it now. The KK is not compatable with the Krylon. What happened is that the KK softened the Krylon primer and then the KK flashed off thus sealing the Krylon. The Krylon was not able to gas off and dry again. The fix is going to be ugly............strip it and start over only do yourself a favor and use KK primer.

  9. #9
    warbird_1's Avatar
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    RE: Klass Kote paint issues


    ORIGINAL: wyowindworks

    I have ceased to use Krylon ever since they switched to the new formula a few years ago.* It's total and absolute junk.* The problems I've experienced are too long to type.
    thank you , you both have great points. i did totally strip it and i'm starting over. i'm not a painter . i do it out of necessity lol it really sucks because it looked great
    Contest Director /Turbine pilot/ P-38 Brotherhood/Scratch Builders make their own Destiny

  10. #10
    speedracerntrixie's Avatar
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    RE: Klass Kote paint issues

    Here's my last paint job. All KK products.





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  11. #11
    warbird_1's Avatar
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    RE: Klass Kote paint issues

    very nice !
    Contest Director /Turbine pilot/ P-38 Brotherhood/Scratch Builders make their own Destiny

  12. #12
    warbird_1's Avatar
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    RE: Klass Kote paint issues

    Well i think i might know what happened. what i think happened is the krylon paint. after talking to nate at KK i have to agree with him. i believe there was a definite problem using krylon primer . i had the flap painted at the same time as the fuse. i could take my finger nail and peel up the primer and paint at the same time. it was still semi soft. so i'm trying an experiment today to see if we're right.
    Contest Director /Turbine pilot/ P-38 Brotherhood/Scratch Builders make their own Destiny

  13. #13
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    RE: Klass Kote paint issues

    I agree with Speed and Wyo: The last couple times I tried to use Krylon Primer, it peeled up on me, too. Once when removing masking over it, after having shot another color; and, even once when pulling a primered plug out of a mold, and no other paints had been used (Thus ruining both the plug and the mold). Since these issues, I have gone to KlassKote exclusively and have had nothing but extremely satisfying results.

    My only recommendation is to mix equal parts of Part A, Part B, and Reducer. This is the maximum amount of reducer that KK recommends, but I find that anything less and the paint sputters and creates other issues.

    WARNING: High-nitro fumes cause an unusual form of mental debilitation resulting in excess expenditures on racing airplanes.

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    RE: Klass Kote paint issues

    @warbird_1

    Have you tried using the primer that KK sells? I use KK exclusively for primer and color and they really work well together. Ive tried to get it to peel in any way but it just won't no matter what you do....


  15. #15
    warbird_1's Avatar
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    RE: Klass Kote paint issues

    ORIGINAL: scaleMan

    @warbird_1

    Have you tried using the primer that KK sells? I use KK exclusively for primer and color and they really work well together. Ive tried to get it to peel in any way but it just won't no matter what you do....

    yes i finally did. have you ever shot the #80 aluminum ? no matter what i do i can't get a real high gloss. i think because it has a lot of alum. pigment in it . i even thinned it down pretty good
    . i was wondering if that cheap HPLV gun i bought had anything to do with it.
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    Contest Director /Turbine pilot/ P-38 Brotherhood/Scratch Builders make their own Destiny

  16. #16

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    RE: Klass Kote paint issues

    Ive never used #80 so i dont have any input on that.... Sorry

  17. #17
    warbird_1's Avatar
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    RE: Klass Kote paint issues

    ok.. i took that cheap 20.00 HVLP gun and tossed it. taking to a painter , they are tricky to get used to and i did notice that the spray was weird . i got a sweet little gun from lowes .a kobalt. i fired it up tonight and ran some thinner through it to flush it out and boy does it spray nice but i do have a KK question.. can any of your guys tell me what thinner ratio you used? it seems that a 1-1-1 leaves it a bit thick. i start by mixing 2 .oz of paint and 2 oz. of hardener . let it set for 40 min and then add 2 oz. of thinner.
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  18. #18
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    RE: Klass Kote paint issues

    Anything less than equal parts of reducer to parts A & B is definitely too thick, in my opinion. I have increased the ratio of reducer even further than 1-1-1, and have been happier with how well it flows through my gun; but, it is far more challenging for me to attain a consistent flow-coat, and yet still avoid causing a run on any vertically-oriented part. As a compromise, if I am "off" slightly on my ratio, I do err on the side of being a tiny bit heavier in reducer. But aside from that,1-1-1 seems to givemethe most consistent results.

    If your not happy with the results, I would definitely suggest experimenting & trying it a little thinner. Just do soin smaller batches, and on scrap (or a less critical "sport" project), until you find what ratio works best for you. I do use the cheaper Harbor Freight detail and HVLP guns. Perhaps the spray pattern/characteristics of your new gun will yield better results. Good luck, and I hope you'll tell us how it works out for you. (Maybe we'll find I need to invest in better equipment, too!)

    WARNING: High-nitro fumes cause an unusual form of mental debilitation resulting in excess expenditures on racing airplanes.

  19. #19
    warbird_1's Avatar
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    RE: Klass Kote paint issues

    i'm shooting the wings today. i'll let you know how i made out , WB_1
    Contest Director /Turbine pilot/ P-38 Brotherhood/Scratch Builders make their own Destiny

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    RE: Klass Kote paint issues

    I tend to over reduce as well, but not a whole lot... Don't have an exact amount, but approximately 5-10% more thinner than color and catalyst would be a good ballpark.

    I use the cheap harbor freight guns as well and have been relatively happy, just do a good job of cleaning them when you are done and they last.
    Dave Norman
    29w

  21. #21

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    RE: Klass Kote paint issues

    way better off to fog the colour and metallic on,, just to achieve hiding and even out the metallic, let it dry and spray clear coat of the same type/brand, to achieve gloss, or better yet, use a proper base/clear paint. spraying silver single stage takes much practice, and has been phased out years ago in the auto industry. also single stage can quickly build into an unwanted thick layer, hiding panel lines and other details.

    I am owner operator of a sucessfull high end autobody shop, feel free to contact me with any paint related questions.

  22. #22
    warbird_1's Avatar
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    RE: Klass Kote paint issues

    thanks for the offer nitro. i just shot the tail group and besides a few specks of dust ,it's good. the gun really made the difference. i wished i had it when i did the fuse. i can not figure out how to keep the dust out. i did everything right . i even tack ragged it 3x's before i shoot it. i hate paint gloss more so.
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  23. #23

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    RE: Klass Kote paint issues

    unless you have a booth with filters, dust will get in there. in the Old school paint booths we spray the floor/walls with water. spraying in the garage would require a thorough cleaning.

    I am sure its fine, ever look at the finish of older aircraft? looks like they were painted outside in a duststorm...

  24. #24

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    RE: Klass Kote paint issues

    hi warbird, how did the paint job end up, do you have any pictures.  i am currently using KK for a 40% size extra, i am wanting to use the gloss to see if it gets more shine.
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  25. #25
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    RE: Klass Kote paint issues

    I am wondering why some of you are not just using something like Dupont Croma Systems primer, base coat, clear coat system. The activator for the primer is the same activator used in the clear coat, some other nice things are; with this system you can prime and wait for months with no issues, you can base coat a different color every 30 minutes with no issues, and if you don't finish all your base colors for up to months there are still no issues clear coating as long as you keep everything clean. In addition this entire system works very good on top of Stits scale covering system Now here is the kicker, you can get an unlimited color pallet to work from for for projects. Hear are a couple of pictures of my airplanes covered using Ciconite covering, stits poly system and finished in the Dupont system I descibed.

    Bob
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