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  1. #1
    vertical grimmace's Avatar
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    Favorite resin for glassing?

    I am getting ready to do some glassing on a couple of my planes. Will be going over balsa with .75 oz cloth. I have some resin from ACP composites that works very well. What are you guys favorites otherwise and the pluses and minuses. I have heard of doing a flow coat. A second coat after the first has been cured and sanded. The fella add west systems 410 and lightly thinned it with acetone, then spread it over the entire structure thinly. Your thoughts will be appreciated.
    \"let\'\'\'\'s just say, they will be satisfied with less\" Ming the Merciless

  2. #2

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    RE: Favorite resin for glassing?

    My absolute favorite resin is MGS 285. It produces the stiffest parts with the highest HDT of any room temp cured epoxy system that I have used. Add heat to the cure and the properties get even better. It has a low viscosity, wets out fabrics nicely, works with my favorite release system, and is compatible my all my in mold coatings/paints.

    My second favorite resin is Adtech 820. Resin Research Composite Pro line is also nice but has a lower HDT than MGS 285 and Adtech 820. It's also not as stiff.

    Resin that I don't like so much are West Systems and MAS. Many people really like these resins though. I don't like them because the parts are rather soft compared to the aboves resins, the HDT is rather low, and the handling/wet-out properties and not as good.

    BTW, these are all epoxy resins.


  3. #3
    vertical grimmace's Avatar
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    RE: Favorite resin for glassing?

    I am not really interested in molding parts, just glassing wooden structures for strength and creating a good surface to accept primer/panel lines/paint for WWII warbirds. Thanks for the ideas, I will look into those products.
    \"let\'\'\'\'s just say, they will be satisfied with less\" Ming the Merciless

  4. #4

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    RE: Favorite resin for glassing?

    I prefer to use a decent laminating resin for doing overlays rather than use solvent to thin a bonding resin.  In the end it's cheaper as well although you'll need to make a larger upfront investment.

  5. #5
    vicman's Avatar
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    RE: Favorite resin for glassing?

    It sounds like Wyo has a lot more experience than many of us out there with high end glassing.
    For my small brain West fits the bill perfectly.
    The reasons I like it are slow cure time, easy to sand, ability to add as I go, and most importantly perfect mix and cure every time using the pumpers.

    I only do a few glass projects a year and increasing that number over mono/ultra coat coverings.
    A guy who used to live on this site and now is rarely here due to the "upgrade".
    Most likely fading away till the My Forums is fixed. Too bad.

  6. #6
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    RE: Favorite resin for glassing?

    RSI in Michigan has some good products at a very good price. www.resinservices.com or call for better service 586-254-6770 I have used there wb 400 for doing glass work. I think a quart is about 20 bucks or so. MAS is another good Resin works well. If you don't do a lot of glassing I cannot see paying top dollar for the stuff to sit and go bad on the shelf.
    I Ain\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'t Buildin No TuG Boats

  7. #7

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    RE: Favorite resin for glassing?

    ORIGINAL: vicman

    It sounds like Wyo has a lot more experience than many of us out there with high end glassing.
    For my small brain West fits the bill perfectly.
    BTW, I don't think that West Systems is a bad resin. It's often locally availble for a decent price. I do think that there are easier resin to use for the same price that have better performance. Adtech 820 is one that is priced nearly the same, wets out the fabric easier, and has better physical properties. Resin Research 2070 is cheaper than West Systems, has a similar HDT, has much better wet-out and handling properties.

    US Composites 635 and the medium hardener has great physical properties which is almost as good as MGS. The downside is that it is a slow curing resin and takes several days to significantly set. It also doesn't have the greatest handling abilities due to it's higher viscosity.

    Here are some links to the results of a test that I did with samples of some lower cost resins and compared them to MGS 285 (premium resin). MGS represent MGS 285, USC represents US Composites 635, RR represents Resin Research 2070, MAS represents MAS Low Viscosity Resin.

    Results after 7 Day Room Temperature Cure
    Results after 125*F Heat Treatment




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    RE: Favorite resin for glassing?

    I use West System from glassing model airframe parts to making molds and making parts. Very easy to get and very easy to use. I know there are better and stronger epoxies out there. Since its not full scale and I am not trying to break the speed record, West works well for what I use it for.
    Happy Flying!

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    RE: Favorite resin for glassing?

    I use Shell DPL 862. It has a 12,000 psi tensile strength, and it cures to full strength at room temperature. It has a ratio of 15% hardener so it may not be the best for mixing small amounts but I have gotten away with it using an accurate cooking scale. It is very stiff, too.

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    RE: Favorite resin for glassing?

    Hey WYO,

    Where are you getting the MGS? I see Aircraft Spruce is charging and extra $75 ($25 hazardous + $45 box fee) to ship a quart of slow hardener for the 285. That's on top of the cost of the hardener. I prefer Spruce or Wicks rather than the hobby places. The usual hobby dealer shipped me a set of MGS with only a month to go before the expiration date. I never had a problem with it but I would prefer fresher stock.

    I have used the MGS 335 to save a few bucks over the 285. I like that you can combine the slow and fast hardeners to customize pot life and cure time to the task at hand. The slow with just a dash of the fast gives plenty of working time.

  11. #11

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    RE: Favorite resin for glassing?


    ORIGINAL: aerobear

    Hey WYO,

    Where are you getting the MGS? I see Aircraft Spruce is charging and extra $75 ($25 hazardous + $45 box fee) to ship a quart of slow hardener for the 285. That's on top of the cost of the hardener. I prefer Spruce or Wicks rather than the hobby places. The usual hobby dealer shipped me a set of MGS with only a month to go before the expiration date. I never had a problem with it but I would prefer fresher stock.

    I have used the MGS 335 to save a few bucks over the 285. I like that you can combine the slow and fast hardeners to customize pot life and cure time to the task at hand. The slow with just a dash of the fast gives plenty of working time.
    If you want the slow hardener you wil have to pay the extra for HAZMAT shipping. By law, any reseller who is shipping it must properly package it and ship it HAZMAT. There are no HAZMAT fees for the fast hardener (30-40 minute pot life) when ordering from Aircraft Spruce, which is where is usually get the stuff. I predominately use the fast hardener. I do use the slow on occasion when neccessary.


  12. #12
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    RE: Favorite resin for glassing?


    ORIGINAL: vertical grimmace

    I am getting ready to do some glassing on a couple of my planes. Will be going over balsa with .75 oz cloth. I have some resin from ACP composites that works very well. What are you guys favorites otherwise and the pluses and minuses. I have heard of doing a flow coat. A second coat after the first has been cured and sanded. The fella add west systems 410 and lightly thinned it with acetone, then spread it over the entire structure thinly. Your thoughts will be appreciated.
    VG,

    The epoxy or polyester finishing resins will build a fairly heavy part in the end but it will usually be fairly tough and more resistant to hanger rash. These tend to get thick

    If weight is a consideration, then it is hard to beat epoxy paint to lay down thin, light fiberglass. I used KB 2 part clear for years until it was discontinued. Currently, Klass Kote epoxy paint works very similarly to old KB. Epoxy paints fully cure over a period of several weeks to a hard finish but they are easy to handle fairly quickly, within 12 hours or so

    The lightest method is nitrate dope. It is light, extremely thin, and dries firm. But because of such thin section it can get hanger rash so one has to be very careful....Any finishing system will get hanger rash if finished thin tho. If it's a glow application, nitrate base coats will require fuel proofing. Epoxy paints, polyurethane car paints (Omni, Concept, Imron etc), butyrate dope, water based paints like Createx, all work fine. Createx will require a final clear coat.
    Regards,
    MattK
    (Rcmaster199@aol.com)

  13. #13

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    RE: Favorite resin for glassing?

    MGS and SYSTEM THREE are often available from woodcraft stores...

  14. #14

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    RE: Favorite resin for glassing?


    ORIGINAL: lfinney

    MGS and SYSTEM THREE are often available from woodcraft stores...
    Which woodcraft stores carry MGS?


  15. #15

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    RE: Favorite resin for glassing?

    I use water base poly, treat the wood with a sealer like deft sanding sealer then the WB poly. down side... it takes like 4 coats to fill the weave but can be done in about 5 hours

  16. #16
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    RE: Favorite resin for glassing?

    I have tried WBP too many times with epic failures every time. Yeah, it's plenty cheap but not worth it.
    A guy who used to live on this site and now is rarely here due to the "upgrade".
    Most likely fading away till the My Forums is fixed. Too bad.

  17. #17

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    RE: Favorite resin for glassing?

    This topic has been addressed many times over but there are always new guys joining in. Let me ask you this, what type of resin does the maker of the fiberglass cloth recommend using? The reason I ask is this, glass cloth is coated with a sizing ingredient that will determine what type of resin should be used. Many but not all of the hobby type weights will allow you to use both polyester or epoxy resin. The problem with using water based polyurethane paint as a laminating resin is it really doesn't chemically bond to the sizing of the cloth. It coats and seals and acts somewhat like glue but it needs time for the water to totally evaporate out or that first hot day in the sun and you're going to have bubbles forming. Also as was noted, you need to cover the balsa surface with a lacquer type sanding sealer to prevent the water from warping the balsa wood. This system works for some people but I'm not going to nickle and dime the surface of a .60 size warbird or larger, I'm using either epoxy or polyester or even vinylester which actually is better than any polyester out there.

    Anyway, most times it's a personal choice as to what system you use. As for sources, I use U.S. Composites for polyester/vinylester products, J. Greer and Associates for epoxy resin and I don't think you can beat Thayercraft for their fiberglass selection. I personally use the epoxy from J. Greer and Associates (aka Aeromarine) that has a 2 to 1 mix, has no noticeable odor so my wife is happy, has the consistency of light Karo syrup and gives you enough potlife to get the job done. It does take a while to cure if temperature is a bit under 75 degrees F and is not the hardest surface in the world, but it does work well for me. I never had it delaminate on me and basically you're bonding the glass to keep the balsa from splitting or checking, absorbing moisture and to stabilize the surface for painting and finishing.

    I'm sure everyone has their preferences but these are mine and they work for me. Hopefully I helped out here.

    Best regards and happy modeling,
    J F Sohm - AMA# 192350 - IMAA# 15145
    If you're not catching any flak, you're not over the target.

  18. #18
    vertical grimmace's Avatar
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    RE: Favorite resin for glassing?


    ORIGINAL: vicman

    I have tried WBP too many times with epic failures every time. Yeah, it's plenty cheap but not worth it.
    I have had great luck with WBP. To each their own I guess.
    \"let\'\'\'\'s just say, they will be satisfied with less\" Ming the Merciless

  19. #19
    invertmast's Avatar
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    RE: Favorite resin for glassing?

    I like the UScomposites 635 system with the medium hardener. Its cheap and works well for glassing balsa surfaces, other than that, I use either Adtech EL-301 or 820
    Thomas W.
    Euro-sport Evo, Scratch built 1/7 F-14D Tomcat, 26.5% Gee Bee R2

  20. #20
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    RE: Favorite resin for glassing?

    Ultra Sport Brotherhood #30

  21. #21
    SCALECRAFT's Avatar
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    RE: Favorite resin for glassing?

    [quote]ORIGINAL: wyowindworks

    My absolute favorite resin is MGS 285.Β* It produces the stiffest parts with the highest HDT of any room temp cured epoxy system that I have used.Β* Add heat to the cure and the properties get even better.Β* It has a low viscosity, wets out fabrics nicely, works with my favorite release system, and is compatible my all my in mold coatings/paints.

    My second favorite resin is Adtech 820.Β* Resin Research Composite Pro line is also nice but has a lower HDT than MGS 285 and Adtech 820.Β* It's also not as stiff.

    Resin that I don't like so much are West Systems and MAS.Β* Many people really like these resins though.Β* I don't like them because the parts are rather soft compared to the aboves resins, the HDT is rather low, and theΒ* handling/wet-out properties and not as good.

    BTW, these are all epoxy resins.


    [/quote


    Ill give MSG a try. Comparing it to west systems.

    Thanks for providing good info.

    Steve

  22. #22

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    RE: Favorite resin for glassing?


    ORIGINAL: Jim_Purcha

    http://www.horizonhobby.com/products...rtf-DLMBD37#t3

    How about eze-kote.

    Jim
    Looks really easy but at $20 for about a pint, that figures to be a pretty pricey covering job compared to epoxy or polyester. Plus, it looks like you need an extra coat.
    J F Sohm - AMA# 192350 - IMAA# 15145
    If you're not catching any flak, you're not over the target.

  23. #23

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    RE: Favorite resin for glassing?


    ORIGINAL: vicman

    I have tried WBP too many times with epic failures every time. Yeah, it's plenty cheap but not worth it.

    I have had wonderful results with WBP. Very easy to apply and sand. And a very light finish as well. This 60 size pattern plane (my 1st painting project) finished at a shade under 8 lbs with sanding sealer, WBP, paint and clear coat.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    David

  24. #24
    vicman's Avatar
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    RE: Favorite resin for glassing?

    David,
    Thats a great looking plane you have. I'm glad it worked for you.
    A guy who used to live on this site and now is rarely here due to the "upgrade".
    Most likely fading away till the My Forums is fixed. Too bad.

  25. #25
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    RE: Favorite resin for glassing?


    ORIGINAL: dhal22


    ORIGINAL: vicman

    I have tried WBP too many times with epic failures every time. Yeah, it's plenty cheap but not worth it.

    I have had wonderful results with WBP. Very easy to apply and sand. And a very light finish as well. This 60 size pattern plane (my 1st painting project) finished at a shade under 8 lbs with sanding sealer, WBP, paint and clear coat.
    What weight fiberglass cloth did you use, if any? I would love to hear you say that you didn't use ANY fiberglass cloth. Just "....sanding sealer, WBP, paint and clear coat.....". If this is true then I need you to teach me how to do this. Good job.

    What equipment do you use for painting? A compressor and spray gun? Or rattlecans.

    Thanks!
    -oliveDr
    "We’re retrieving the seed — then we’re done defending the humans."


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