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making a mold

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Old 06-20-2013, 08:20 PM
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airraptor
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Default making a mold

are there any model airplane business's that will make a mold for you if you already have a fiberglass fuselage? I have a fiberglass fuselage and the kits are very rare and hard to get. i would like to make a mold of the fiberglass parts. I could do a bunch of research and do it my self but kinda scared of messing it up?
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Old 06-20-2013, 09:21 PM
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Default RE: making a mold

I don't know of a company that does that, but you might try some private parties that do it for a living. It is not cheap though. There is a person on youtube " Hornitpilot" that makes videos on different flying model plugs, molds, and parts. You might go to youtube, put in Hornitpilot and you could ask him if he would and how much if you were so inclined.
Just a thought. I have asked several questions on things on these forums and no one seems to want to help or point you in any direction. I hope this helps or points you in some direction and gives you something to think about.
Have a nice weekend.
Don

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Old 06-21-2013, 11:08 AM
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Default RE: making a mold

Something like this is theft, some guys may not want to comment on it. Someone put a lot of work into making that fuse, for you to make a mold off of it isn't very ethical.
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Old 06-21-2013, 11:18 AM
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Default RE: making a mold


Quote:
ORIGINAL: soarrich

Something like this is theft, some guys may not want to comment on it. Someone put a lot of work into making that fuse, for you to make a mold off of it isn't very ethical.
Nonsense! Has virtually nothing to do with ethics especially if the original fuse is older and the original mold is nowhere to be found. If the guy wants to have a mold made so he can cast new parts, so be it.

This has a lot more to do with preservation of the older ideas. We have been doing that in Pattern with guys creating new tooling for the old vintage models for several years now. Nothing wrong with that and interest is quite keen for the copies.
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Old 06-21-2013, 11:31 AM
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Default RE: making a mold

Contact Kevin Matney of Matney models.
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Old 06-21-2013, 06:59 PM
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Default RE: making a mold

Gee we've been doing it a long time doesn't make it right.
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Old 06-21-2013, 07:22 PM
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Default RE: making a mold


Quote:
ORIGINAL: soarrich

Something like this is theft, some guys may not want to comment on it. Someone put a lot of work into making that fuse, for you to make a mold off of it isn't very ethical.
If it were a model that was currently in production I would agree 100%. If its a model that is out of production and the original designer/manufacturer has no intentions of re release and has not copyright the design then it's up for grabs. I also doubt that Jeff is interested in manufacturing for profit and that changes the rules.

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Old 06-22-2013, 04:39 AM
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: speedracerntrixie


Quote:
ORIGINAL: soarrich

Something like this is theft, some guys may not want to comment on it. Someone put a lot of work into making that fuse, for you to make a mold off of it isn't very ethical.
If it were a model that was currently in production I would agree 100%. If its a model that is out of production and the original designer/manufacturer has no intentions of re release and has not copyright the design then it's up for grabs. I also doubt that Jeff is interested in manufacturing for profit and that changes the rules.

I think you got it right.
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Old 06-22-2013, 07:26 AM
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Default RE: making a mold

This is a Bridi F-7F Tigercat. Its around a 68" wing if I remember correctly. I want to use it for Warbird racing. It will be around 11-12 pounds with two YS-115's.

II have been looking at planes for sale for last ten years or so and I have only seen two of these for sale. I just want a mold so i can make another fuselage if I put this one in the dirt.

I have seen a few videos and talked with Speed but it looks like it would be around 3-400 dollars just in supplies. I just don't want to mess it up. i could practice on other planes until I can do it with no issues but then that's even more money. This is why I asked here.

Thanks for all the positive replies.
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Old 06-22-2013, 10:35 AM
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Default RE: making a mold

From what I have heard, as long as you are not making them for sale and only for yourself there should be no legal problem anyway.
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Old 06-22-2013, 08:42 PM
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Default RE: making a mold

Quote:
ORIGINAL: airraptor


I have seen a few videos and talked with Speed but it looks like it would be around 3-400 dollars just in supplies. I just don't want to mess it up. i could practice on other planes until I can do it with no issues but then that's even more money. This is why I asked here.

Look into Ultracal 30 for making the molds, cheap, quick and easy. They don't last for production, but good for at least ten fuses. I made some flying wing fuses a couple of years ago, the molds may have cost me $25 to make.
http://www.usg.com/ultracal-30-gypsum-cement.html
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Old 06-23-2013, 11:05 AM
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Default RE: making a mold

thanks That is what I am looking for. I am sure i will make a few different ones to run different wings. Trying for a twin in the 150-160 range with two 115's
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Old 06-23-2013, 12:27 PM
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Default RE: making a mold

If you go to RCG and search the EDF form for my (SCALECRAFT) F-104, I show how to go from a 3view drawing to a flying glass model. It's not hard. It's very labor intensive though.



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Old 06-23-2013, 01:40 PM
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Default RE: making a mold

Ultra Cal or Hydrostone works great. I use Hydrostone to make plugs for vacuum form canopies. I paid $40 for 50 lbs.
I've made louver plugs too so I could copy a louver I had on a Yak cowl. (Don't use wood filler, it sucks up the moisture and cracks the mold).

I would assume for a larger mold you could use burlap and lay it up like a mummy??? I've never done it on a large model.

If anyone is local and wants to try it come and see me, I'll sell you 25 lbs of it
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Old 06-23-2013, 04:51 PM
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: airraptor

thanks That is what I am looking for. I am sure i will make a few different ones to run different wings. Trying for a twin in the 150-160 range with two 115's
Terry Luckenbach did a cd "Composite Molding Made Easy" shows how to do it.
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Old 06-27-2013, 09:56 AM
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Default RE: making a mold

I'd do it.. but you probably wouldn't like the cost. $300-400 in materials is about 1/3 to 1/2 of what it would actually cost. You'll have $125 in tooling coat resin, another $300 in laminating resin, $400-600 in glass cloth, $100-150 in parting planes, $100 in brush's, mixing cups, etc..

your looking at around $1800-2500 for a ready made mold with labor.
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Old 06-27-2013, 03:18 PM
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Default RE: making a mold

If making a perfect mold that would hold up to a few hundred cycles and a glass finish I would agree that figure is not unreasonable. If he was to make a quick mold for the reason of just making up a fuse for himself here and there it can be done for just a couple hundred worth of materials.
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Old 06-27-2013, 03:23 PM
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Default RE: making a mold

My Buddy has one of those F7s. It is a very simple shape. I would look on line and do it in glass. Not much in the detail department.

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Old 06-28-2013, 01:59 PM
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ORIGINAL: speedracerntrixie

If making a perfect mold that would hold up to a few hundred cycles and a glass finish I would agree that figure is not unreasonable. If he was to make a quick mold for the reason of just making up a fuse for himself here and there it can be done for just a couple hundred worth of materials.

Like my daddy always told me. "If you can't do it right, don't do it at all". Many times I have seen guys try and make short-cuts and get things done cheaper and quicker and it always costs them in the end.. personally, molds aren't something to go cheap on, as your end product is directly proportional to how much quality you put into the mold construction.

And my figures were for a lightly used mold that would give realiable results every time. I have become very good at quoting mold material prices since my F-14 and Horten 229 projects.
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Old 06-28-2013, 02:16 PM
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Default RE: making a mold

We have differences of opinion I suppose. I just don't see the value in spending thousands of dollars in tooling for a one or even four off project. The cowl, wheel pants and canopy on this Laser came out of my quick and dirty molds. Plugs were painted and rubbed out then put into splitter plates. The surface resin is simply the same resin I used for the whole project except with some black tint added. Following the surface coat was 2 layers of 2 oz followed by 3 layers of 10 oz. The molds have a wood frame built around them for rigidity. As you can see from the finished product the quality of the finished product is there. Yes it would have taken less time to get there had I done production quality molds but IMO the justification was just not there.


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Old 06-29-2013, 12:03 AM
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ORIGINAL: speedracerntrixie

We have differences of opinion I suppose. I just don't see the value in spending thousands of dollars in tooling for a one or even four off project. The cowl, wheel pants and canopy on this Laser came out of my quick and dirty molds. Plugs were painted and rubbed out then put into splitter plates. The surface resin is simply the same resin I used for the whole project except with some black tint added. Following the surface coat was 2 layers of 2 oz followed by 3 layers of 10 oz. The molds have a wood frame built around them for rigidity. As you can see from the finished product the quality of the finished product is there. Yes it would have taken less time to get there had I done production quality molds but IMO the justification was just not there.


Probably so.. A quality surfacing resin isn't expensive. A gallon of the stuff will last a long time for the average sized model. Tooling like on my F-14, well lets just say i could of bought a nice used Honda. [X(]
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Old 06-29-2013, 01:21 PM
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Default RE: making a mold

I would have to agree with both of you guys.

Why??

Because the mold is an asset. The mold investment is durable when properly used . It can be sold for good money if done properly and cared for. The labor is similar for a economy mold or a costly one.

I use both a metalized surface coat and an epoxy cobosil/tinted surface coat. One thing I learned, if you don't wax/pva properly, neither surface will last.

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Old 06-29-2013, 02:06 PM
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ORIGINAL: SCALECRAFT

I would have to agree with both of you guys.

Why??

Because the mold is an asset. The mold investment is durable when properly used . It can be sold for good money if done properly and cared for. The labor is similar for a economy mold or a costly one.

I use both a metalized surface coat and an epoxy cobosil/tinted surface coat. One thing I learned, if you don't wax/pva properly, neither surface will last.

Steve

wax/pva is old-school! Frekote is where its at! I'll never go back to waxing and PVA on a useable part again, for plugs and mold construction though, i'll still use the old reliable wax and PVA..
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Old 06-29-2013, 02:32 PM
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Default RE: making a mold

I have been sealing my high temp epoxy production molds with FMS then applying Frekote 700NC for around 15 years now and Frekote 44 many year prior to that, in both cases I have seen 100s of my tools yield as much as 300 to 500 production pre-preg parts processed at 260F and 350F before the necessity of manufacture new tooling. One of the things I learned over 30 years ago that causes premature epoxy tooling life is allowing razor knife cutting on the mold surfaces when utilizing pre-pregs or wet layup for that matter.

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Old 06-29-2013, 04:52 PM
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Default RE: making a mold

Old school. True. I have not made a new mold in a round 10 years. Burned out back in the 90's.


I 'll get some frekote. I hate waxing. Pva has a number of uses for me though.


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