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"Eliminator 2" molds under way

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Old 11-04-2004, 09:32 PM
  #1
Mike James
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Default "Eliminator 2" molds under way

We're making molds!

As of 11-04-04, we've got the stabiliator mold, vertical fin/dorsal mold, NACA inlet mold, and canopy mold done. ( images attached ) Fuselage mold is next, and should be done within the next week or so. Everything is going well...No problems, and we can't wait to get this baby in the air. ( http://www.nextcraft.com/j47_sportjet01.html )

Excuse the sloppy appearance in these photos. The plugs were just pulled, and they still need to be more neatly trimmed, and all the wax and PVA cleaned off. We'll clean 'em up tomorrow.
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Old 12-08-2004, 06:49 PM
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Default RE: "Eliminator 2" molds under way

First (top) mold half is done... Second (btm) half coming soon. The stabilator, vertical fin, NACA inlet, and canopy molds are already done, and we've been making test parts with good results. I'm finishing the wing plugs, and they'll be molded soon, too.

Today's updates are at http://www.nextcraft.com/j47_sportjet09.html and the article begins at http://www.nextcraft.com/j47_sportjet01.html
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Old 12-10-2004, 05:20 PM
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Default RE: "Eliminator 2" molds under way

Mike, i just reviewed your post on the Eliminator build and it is great, I have two questions.

I notice that you use Epoxy for your molds instead of polyester, is there a reason for that?

And will cabosil work with polyester?

Thanks
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Old 12-10-2004, 05:32 PM
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Default RE: "Eliminator 2" molds under way

Thanks for visiting my site, and for your nice comment. (working on the btm mold half of the fuselage tonight!)

For my purposes, epoxy has better performance. (Opinions will vary about this, but stats are published on most composite supplier's web sites... less shrinkage, etc.... and less smell)

Cabosil (technically, the brand name is Cab-O-Sil) is inert and as far as I know, could be used as a filler with anything, including polyester. See http://www.fibreglast.com/showproduc...llers-111.html
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Old 12-11-2004, 01:10 AM
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Default RE: "Eliminator 2" molds under way

Bottom mold half is done! (http://www.nextcraft.com/j47_sportjet09.html )
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Old 12-11-2004, 09:26 PM
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Default RE: "Eliminator 2" molds under way

Ta da!

Fuselage molds are done!
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Old 12-12-2004, 10:22 AM
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Default RE: "Eliminator 2" molds under way

Mike,

Those molds look great !! I was looking at the mold halves and did not see any alignment pins or provisions to join the halves in the mold. I am assuming that you are going to mold in two pieces and then join outside the mold?? Nice to see another new plane come out of NC.... now if I can just get my Orion molds done....


Dan

Dan Hines
Carolina Custom Aircraft
Rougmont, NC
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Old 12-12-2004, 11:36 AM
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Default RE: "Eliminator 2" molds under way

Hi Dan,

Thank you.

This mold set is a little different from the usual ones I've done, due to the side pieces being separate. There are no alignment pegs built into the exterior of the mold face, but there are alignment holes for machine screws in all the parts, so the mold becomes self-aligned when assembled. (We'll be vacuum bagging the individual parts, then joining them in the assembled mold.)

An Orion sounds like a cool project... Start a build thread and show us some photos.
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Old 12-13-2004, 03:48 AM
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Default RE: "Eliminator 2" molds under way

Looks Great Mike,

Can't wait to be the first kid on my block to own and fly a J-47. [8D]
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Old 12-13-2004, 05:01 AM
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Default RE: "Eliminator 2" molds under way

Hey, thank you, moxjett!

I have a little prelim work to do, and will probably then make the first test fuselage (without all the formers) either today or tomorrow. That's why I'm up at 5am... Haven't slept yet, because I'm just wired about having gotten the fuselage molds done. Pretty exciting, considering some of the ups and downs of the past couple of years.
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Old 12-13-2004, 07:17 AM
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Default RE: "Eliminator 2" molds under way

Hey Mike... Looking good. I've been looking at your website alot and can't wait for production... I've got a GMS 76 looking for a home.
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Old 12-13-2004, 10:24 AM
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Default RE: "Eliminator 2" molds under way

Keep up the good work Mike, I really enjoy your site and appreciate your work....it is a great resource for the hobby.
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Old 12-13-2004, 02:30 PM
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Default RE: "Eliminator 2" molds under way

Wow... Thank you, everyone. I do sincerely appreciate those comments. That's what keeps me going.

Now, if I could just find a few thousand people who feel the same way, we'd be in business!
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Old 12-14-2004, 04:52 PM
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Default RE: "Eliminator 2" molds under way

The fuselage already has recessed markings for the gear doors, so I made the gear door molds today.
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Old 12-27-2004, 04:42 PM
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Default RE: "Eliminator 2" molds under way

We're waiting on a glass shipment, before we can make the first "Eliminator 2" for flight testing. So, I've been working on the wing plugs and other odds and ends. I've just finished etching the wing plugs for the control surfaces, which will be skin-hinged. (first photo)

Although we'll be offerering the kit in "raw" glass, or white/light gray primer, I've been giving some thought to possible paint schemes. The red and white one in the upper right hand corner of the 2nd image is the "Edwards-ish" scheme we'll be using for flight tests.
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Old 12-27-2004, 07:29 PM
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Default RE: "Eliminator 2" molds under way

Hi Mike,

Awesome, can't wait to see how it turns out.

I heard you are waiting on some info from JetCat...what do you need?
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Old 12-27-2004, 08:01 PM
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Default RE: "Eliminator 2" molds under way

Hi Matt, and thank you!

Since I'm not a turbine flyer at this time, it would be foolish for me to design a "turbine ready" model without doing the research, both for mechanical needs, and to keep it safe. The turbine "specs" themselves are published, as far as figuring the size and thrust requirements. What I'm interested in are some guidlines for designing efficient inlets and an efficient exhaust systems. What I've heard so far is that since turbines combust air and fuel, (expanding it) rather than just blowing it through, the intake requirements are "less area than most people would think", and "not very critical". Ok, but that's not very specific.

Are there some rules of thumb regarding intakes and exhausts for turbines? Thanks! (JetCat has still not responded.)

Images... Added a "Thunderbirds" scheme and a "Blue Angels" scheme, just for fun.
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Old 12-28-2004, 07:45 AM
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Default RE: "Eliminator 2" molds under way

Mike post your test flight time and date. I may ride down to watch.
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Old 12-28-2004, 10:31 AM
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Default RE: "Eliminator 2" molds under way

Will do, vicman.

Thank you. We're expecting to do the test flights at Triple Tree, in a few weeks. (asap)
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Old 12-28-2004, 02:41 PM
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Default RE: "Eliminator 2" molds under way

Why go so far?
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Old 12-28-2004, 02:48 PM
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Default RE: "Eliminator 2" molds under way

My partner wants to do the test flights there, because it's a great place to shoot photos and video, and because there are some people at Triple Tree who have said they want to see the thing fly.

I'm new to this area though, and so if you want to email me and let me know where the closer flying sites are, I'd be interested. Thanks.
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Old 12-28-2004, 08:50 PM
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Default RE: "Eliminator 2" molds under way

Mike,

I have noticed this on several all composite aircraft with skin hinges on the control surface. The cut angles on the control surface's are not always at ninety degree's to the hinge line, which in turn requires having to relieve the control surface at the leading edge at the point where it meets the hinge line ... hence screwing up your nice tight gaps.

Some insight as too why the control surface cut lines are done like this would be appreciated. Attached is a pic of my Roo II wing to help illustrate. The point came to mind when I saw the pic of your wing in post #14, and the scribe line at the aileron tip & hinge line tangent.
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Old 12-28-2004, 09:14 PM
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Default RE: "Eliminator 2" molds under way

First, let me say that I'm new to skin hinging, and don't claim to be an expert. I've made a variety of test parts, and read every thread on this I could find, (gliders builders use them a lot) and have also researched BVM, Composite-ARF and other kits, taking closeup photos when I could. So far, this is what I've found.

I understand your Roo problem, which points out the fact that getting tapered control surfaces on a highly tapered wing to work right demands precision. First, as you said, the cut must be 90 degrees to the hinge line. Second, the cut must be 90 degrees in the vertical. (one cut directly above the other.) Since we're trying to have very tight gaps, any error will be a pain.

The cuts on the BVM Composite Bobcats that I recently photographed continued forward into the non-moving part for almost 1/4". The reason for that extra relief isn't obvious to me yet. (image attached) These cuts are on the relieved side of the hinge only, so it's probably just so the skin there can flex a little, since it serves as a "wiper".

For my sport jet, we originally planned to spray primer in the mold. Having done some hinging tests, I now see the advantage to being able to mark the material (on the inside, after vacuum bagging) and to then be able to use these marks visually from the outside, (when the parts are joined) to see exactly what's going on. That's why I took the step of carefully measuring for the etch marks on the PLUGS, before even making the molds. If we cut on the etch marks, the surfaces will be right. And...If I'm not missing something here... If using the etched marks works, then we can go back to our original plan of priming in the mold. (And maybe painting in the mold, later)

One other thing...
These skin hinges must be scored after fabrication, to break the thin exterior epoxy layer and "activate" the hinge. So, depending on whether you score the hinge line first or make the end cuts first, something might get out of whack. Again, I'm hoping to avoid that by using our etched lines as the score line. We'll see...

These "new" processes are always something of a challenge, but I sure like them when they're done right. It's just one more "lighter, stronger. more precise" thing we can add to new models. Worth the effort, I think.
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Old 12-28-2004, 09:47 PM
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Default RE: "Eliminator 2" molds under way

Mike,

Maybe the accompanying two photos will shed some light on the purpose of the relief's. This is the weird kind of things you get into when the cut lines are not 90 degree's to the hinge line.
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Old 12-28-2004, 10:19 PM
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Default RE: "Eliminator 2" molds under way

Thanks for sharing the photos.

Don't you just hate it when something is so close to perfect, but ... not quite?
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