zope_pope

I See. Where can i get it in the raw material, and would I want to make rivets and screws before attaching the plates? Also, how does one work with Lithoplates?

Grumpy1940

Yep! Steve, thats correct!
litho is raw aluminium plate, used in printing. normally u get it free from printing stores. thickness is between 0,35-0,5mm. 1/60 inch?
about. i hammer all the details to plate before glueing! and make the panels in correct order. usually from tail to tip.
panel by panel. so those are rised correctly or flush lines.
rised rivets is done in 2 steps. 1st hammer back side of plate with ballend dremel tool , flip plate around and hammer with sharpened tube on hard surface(metal) then u have perfekt rised rivet. (in pic)
normal rivets just sharpened tube from frontside.(hammering)
dont forget annealing before hammering. litho is too hard for good rivets without heat.
it stays soft after cooling, so there is no hurry.

Grumpy1940

and ou yes for screws. rised screws i use real ones and flush screws is hammered by special tool made from small screwdriver and sharpened tube. and the wax i use .... brand is world finest release. bu t i think any release wax is good.
in pic u see all type of screws i used. ballend screw, flat screw, and hammered screw(in windscreen frame). in ready made fuse.

zope_pope

How did you get the litho plates to conform to the curves of the plug. Is this the hammering you were talking about? I am guessing this took place before the rivets were detailed.


So in my build, I have the wings framed up and am about to sheet them. I have the fuse structure framed but not finished. I still need the turtle deck, to finish the radiator scoop, the nose, etc. So its far from being built...

If I wanted to use the method you are using, what is my next step? I am such a newbie to composites its not funny. I just think if I go all wood construction the airplane will end up quite heavy and fly like a dog compared to composites. Not to mention the added details and the ease of reproduction (if done right). Thanks again.

Grumpy1940

after heating start pressing from center of panel with balsa block. use painters tape step by step so panel stays on place.
i have pics only tailplane leading edge processing. hope it helps the idea. 1st shape the panel, then rivets, then glue.

im glad i can help.

zope_pope

All the wood was fiberglass pre litho plates right? What kind of glue are u using to glue the plates?

XE521

Hi Grumpy, as Steve said you should call yourself 'Veryhappy'. Are you a fan of Scneewittchen by any chance? Also out of curiosity why 'Grumpy'?
What's your source for detail?
No dig at zope_pope's kite but there's no other aircraft in the world to beat the graceful lines of a Spit or a Mossie. The Mossie is projected for next year. you have unwittingly solved my problem of what to use of the cowling of my next project (a Cievre C.30 Autogyro). So I'll be off to the printers to see if I can pick up some material. Many thanks for the detailed rundown on your project, it's just great to be able to pick up tips and tricks from others.

Cheers, Karl.

XE521

Hi zope_pope, in your position I would finish the project that you're doing and then go over 100% to composites. Changing horses in the middle of the stream is just a compromise and compromises have a habit of not quite working out correctly. Then you loose the money that you have invested in the original project and maybe also the inclination to do it right way. Ok, if you have stacks of cash to throw out of the window send some to me, I promise that I'll not complain.

Regards, Karl.

Grumpy1940

LOL! i stoled the nickname from George 'Grumpy' Unwin who flown my prototype plane in Battle of Britain.
yes i glassed all parts before lithoplate! double curvature area should do double glass. so its doesnt bend under pressure with balsa block! glue is normal Bostik contact glue. put very carefully panels on place. glue sticks in second!! if going wrong use littlebit heat and u can pull the panel away!

Cheers

Jukka

Grumpy1940

...man i have short memory!!! i have factory blueprints on cd from mk1a spitfire. and 3000pictures on cd. my friends have helped a lot when they took pictures in museums. and i have 3 documents dvd's from Battle of Britain also. im kinda fanatic on mk1a....
half the time i have spent studing photos.

SCALECRAFT

My Feedback: (13)

Grumpy

This is where most of the arfs fall way short, don't you think??

That H stab looks fantastic!!! Curved at that!! Your gonna push me to do some detailed plug making too. Damn!!

Steve

zope_pope

That stab is so pretty. I am guessing the LE of the stab is glued ontop of the other sheeting? That airplane is going to be a beauty!

Grumpy1940

Thanks! indeed ARFs should be more detailed! yes litho is on glassed tailplane.

one more small trick if u choose to work with litho plate. use scotch brightening after u have glued the panels on plug.
it smoothens all sharp edges in litho lightly... result much easier release.

cheers

Jukka

XE521

Good morning Grumpy,

up nice and early I see.
Where did you get your CDs from and do you know if the supplier also has the same kind of data for the Mossie?

Cheers, Karl.

zope_pope

Hey grumpy,

I meant did you curve the leading edge of the stab over other litho plates, or are the other litho plates just butting up against it? I guess this would depend on how the real plane is. This technique is really cool, and yes, ARF's have no detail what so ever. I think a scale model should be at the very least, kit built. ARF scale model is kind of a stupid concept if you ask me.

Grumpy1940

Good morning!
yes panel on leading edge is lightly over underpanel about 1mm. like in real plane. butt-butt panels in same level. all like real plane also. photos r very important. panel over other panel only about 1-2mm or it will look bad. it will show under another panel after brightening. so fitting carefully before glue.
i bought plans from ebay. those came from new zealand. sorry dont know where to find mossie plans. and ordered cd from england also. and if doing mk9 monforton plans r perfect. mk1 is totally different plane in riveting and panels and shape also. but studing such a beautiful plane like spitfire was only fun part of progress.

one good thing with litho is no sanding and it will release with ease from mold....

cheers

grumpy

daven

My Feedback: (1)

Excellent work Grumpy.

Here is the States, many printers won't give their plates away, but sell it as scrap. The value is quite high right now.

XE521

Hi Grumpy,

thanks for the answer. Pity but no real problem, as I mentioned it's a project for next winter not this one.

One advantage of building a Mossie is there ain't no rivets, just like the model balsa, plywood and glue. Except for the engine covers of course. On the original, glue was a major problem in the tropics.

Regards, Karl.

RVM

Wow Grumpy! Beautiful work! Wanna sell it?

Grumpy1940

Hi!
i just got done wing molds. few pics from those. sorry about dirt on molds, i havent cleaned those yet. AND MAYBE I SHOULD OPEN OWN THREAD! dont want to highjack this thread. sorry...

cheers

Jukka

SCALECRAFT

My Feedback: (13)

Mold looks good. That wheel well is going to be some work to layup. But then again, it will be done.

Nice stuff. Thank God thier is still some custom composite/building talent out there.

Steve

Grumpy1940

Thanks from kind words Steve.
in spitfire retrats go inside to wing with high angle. so the wheewell would be very difficult to build afterwards. and this way indeed u wont need to open wing when its done. and 1 important thing. this way the wing can take lot more loads. i made those wheelwell areas by silicon. so in the end this is easier way to do it...

cheers

SCALECRAFT

My Feedback: (13)

You know Grumpy, I see your point. As with my favorite airframe, the BF 109 the LG have a similar angle.

The built in wheel wells can serve as a structural componant when resined to the inside of the top wing "skin". I'll try that on my (and HVACMAN) next composite 109 layup.

steve

Grumpy1940

Hi again Steve!
making release easier i made that wheel well mold hollow. with empty bottle filled with water so it doesnt float.
and its rised from wing plug surface about 1/6inch. so deligning it later is not a problem. when setled i pulled a bottle bottom away and clay also. then layed all the mold cloths over it...
pic from making wheel well mold.

SCALECRAFT

My Feedback: (13)

Looks good.

There are many ways to fabricate the mold for ease of layup.

I like the aileron faring/anchor design. Just like the real one.

Is the aileron glass with fabric look or wood with fabric or ???

The detail looks very authentic, not exagerated or oversized. As is sometimes done on composite models.

steve