vertical grimmace

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Does anyone know of sources for thin fiberglass sheet other than ACP products? I am looking for the thin stuff, .010"-.015.



Thanks

ByLoudDesign

http://www.acp-composites.com/ACP-CAT.HTM
http://www.cstsales.com/fiberglass_plates.html

daven

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Vert, for the skinned hinges, don't go thicker than the .010 for your zoomer, that is plenty.

vertical grimmace

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Thanks, Daven

richard2287

Does anyone know a thread that deals with, how to go about covering your first airplane with fiberglass? I know a lot about fiberglass, but nothing about covering an rc airplane. So I need info from the ground up. Like where to put and how to treat the edges, and seams. And cover the whole thing at once, or small parts at a time? By the whole thing at once, I mean, for instance, the whole top half of a wing. Or the whole side of a fuselage at once. Is it best to put edge seams together on an edge, or on a flat surface section?

I can't help think this must all be covered somewhere on here. So If you know where,,,,,,HELP!
Thanks.
Richard

vertical grimmace

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I am sure you could find a thread in here somewhere. I am going to fiberglass the current aiplane I am constructing. I have a build thread "about time Zoomer" in the extreme speed forum.
If you would like I can give you a quick go over of the process. It is pretty easy.

ByLoudDesign

If you are covering with a light cloth, you can wet the wing on one side or the other, wet the cloth on a piece of cardboard just make sure that it is all saturated. Take s squeggy and lightly make sure you do not have excess resin or epoxy on either the wing or wetted cloth. Now drape the cloth over the wing and squeggy it down. The cloth will warp to cover the LE and TE if you pull it down from both side directly opposite each other. Try and get the TE and LE cloth to around to the opposite side of the wing, a lot is not necessary. squeggy it out again and let it harden to a firm but not hard and trim with a never use before box knife as close to the wing as you can get. let it cure and then flip it over feather out the edges. this is important as you will want to get the same type wrap on this side also. Repeat the above process on this side. Will get back a little later with more advise. The dinner bell rang! LOL

richard2287

Loud D. Thanks! Understood. Now, fuse. and tail. Do you run the cloth up on the fin, or stab. from the fuse. or do you just stop the edge on the fillet area between fin and fuse, and sand down in that area. As I write this, I am thinking that you should run down onto the fuse from the fin, because if you split it at the fillet area, you would lose strength in a bad place. Any suggestions at all, I am glad to get. Thanks again. Yes. Light cloth.
Richard

ByLoudDesign

OK, You never want to have glass or composite end on inside fillets or at hard curves, it is hard to keep the nice line you worked so hard to produce. Do the stabs just like you do the wings. But staabout a 1/2-1" away from the fillets. Use the same principle I ecplained for the wins. you should always allow each panel to cure and feather it out, like do the top and and bottom first, clean it up as previously mentioned and then do the sides. Now give it a good going over to hake sure you do not have cobbles here or there. Now cut strips ov glass to match each fillet or hard curve, the reason for this is you can warp the cloth a hole hell of a lot in this small strip, where with the larger sheet the large geometry of the part would hold you from being able to warp the cloth in that tight area. Rule of thumb on larger pieces is if it puckers, cut it back till it dose notthen cut a piece that fits later. It takes a while to do it in handleable ares but your model will look nicer without many hours trying to get that edge or fillet to look nice. Plus you can control the amount of extra resin or epoxy weight that might hide behind a area like inside fillets where the glass may not have been able to make the warp.

richard2287

Loud D: I understand, and thank you a bunch. I feel I'll have no problem with it now. Best to ya.

Richard.

ByLoudDesign

Some tools you might want to put in your arsonal! Sureform files of as many shapes and sizes as you can find, these work good to file down the rough edges just before they get hard, makes the feathering job a lot easier. A half a dozen squeegies of various sizes, you can shape them to your need. A gallon bucket with a tight lid to put the solivent in for clean-up, I keep my tools in there also. A dozen cheap shop towels, you can rinse them out in the solivent also, but eventually they are to full of resin that you throw them away. HAPPY GLASSING!

richard2287

Garcias.........Thats spanish for "grassy ass"

John Sohm

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Man if this is the way you are fiberglassing airplanes, no wonder you can't get inside fillets or big curved surfaces done. I'm surprised you can even get the stuff to drape correctly with all that resin already applied. Here's the way I do it (and a bunch of others that are way better than myself and I'm pretty good at this.

You start by making sure your aircraft surface is about as smoothe as you can get it and then make sure there is little or no dust on it. Some use a tack cloth, I like to vacuum to get the dust off. Take your glass cloth, preferably 3/4 oz. or less and drape it over the surface and smoothe it out but you don't need to be too particular. Trim the edges until you have about 2 to 3 inches around the outside. Now take a clean, dry brush like a drafters brush and smoothe out the small wrinkles in the cloth. The static made by the brushing will help hold the cloth in place.

Now mix your resin, about an ounce at a time. Here's where you get to pick which type: epoxy or polyester. If you go with polyester, you want to use Sig Finishing resin and if you use epoxy, the Zap Finishing resin is good too. Benefit to polyester is you can sand it better than epoxy, downside is IT SMELLS (like a car body shop, Bondo style). Let's say you're doing the wing (do one half of the wing top or bottom at a time)...start at the center and work your way out to the tip drawing the cloth out to the edges in a sort of herring bone pattern from the main spar if you can picture that. By doing that you, keep the cloth from bunching up as you go. Some people use a 3/4 inch to 1 inch artist brush for applying the resin and some like using those foam rollers, the choice is up to you. TIP: when you apply, let some resin extend beyond the edge of glass cloth in contact with wood, makes it easier to trim and feather the edge for other side.

Once all the cloth is attached with resin, take an old playing card, or plastic credit card or body work squeegy and a paper towel to wipe the squeegy on and, starting at the center, start squeegying the excess off the wing in a chordwise manner. This presses the glass into the wood for a better contact and eliminates the excess that serves no purpose except adding extra weight. When this is done, take a paper towel and fold it up to make a blotter and lightly go over any wet spots that seemed to remain after squeegying.

Once the resin cures, continue on the other half of the wing in the same manner. When it cures, trim by sanding with 240 grit and then do the same on the other side. This method has served me well over the last 20 years. You will probably like it too.

If you want to see a master in action, go to Dave Platt's website and purchase his Building and Fiberglassing Number 3 video. It shows him using the same method. (He uses polyester where I like the epoxy process). Give it a shot.

greg_m

Hi there

I agree with John Sohm in method as this is the way I did it for my first job. I tried something I read about on the internet somewhere though. It worked great. Wing Bottom halves then top halves, fuse one side then other side. Stabs bottoms and then tops. That way if you dont get it 100% then the second attempt on tops can be corrected from lessons learned on bottoms. At least that was my thinking when the plane stands in the pits it's not in your face or your flying buddies sight - hahahaha!!

Thin down the epoxy resin with acetone. It must have a consistancy a little thicker than water. Apply using a foam type roller. A little goes a lond way on the surface and if you get it right - its awsome.

However be very carefull with excess as the weight adds up rediculously quickly. I took my pride and joy to a auto panel spray shop for painting and boy did the weight get piled on. They must have added a kilogram of extra weight in several layers of spray filler / primer / colour coats and then a clear top coat.

IT WONT RUST BUT IT FLIES LIKE THE PREVERBIAL BRICK IN THE VERTICAL!!!!

Avaiojet

I've been glassing since the 80's.

I first apply one coat of reduced polyester laminating resin, on the balsa, with acetone mixed 50 / 50. I scuff this up lightly then tack rag or vacuum.

I lay the 3/4 oz. cloth over any area and apply a coat of polyester resin. I blot it with toilet tissue by laying the tissue flat and pressing. Were plastic gloves.

Afterwards, I apply another coat of polyester laminating resin. I block sand this.

I wouldn't use Epoxy anything for exterior finishing, even if it was given to me free for life. The only Epoxy I use is with gluing wood. I would never use epoxy to glue anything to polyester fiberglass.

This is the results you can get. This model took "Best Finish" at the WRAM show in 1980 something? I don't remember the year. I have better things to do than gloat over stuff like awards. First and last time I ever entered a model.

saramos

3.4 oz. glass?[X(] That'll soak up the resin! Did you mean 3/4 oz. glass? That's what works for me.

Scott

As for the original question of this thread, here is the cheapest, and greatest variety of fiberglass sheet (G10, not cloth). They carry from .005 all the way up to 4" (I have no idea what it would be used for). For those that don't know what it is, it's sheets of cured fiberglass. It can be used for a number of things. The thinner stuff (.01) can be used to sheet a wing instead of the traditional balsa and glass method. G10 that is in the 1/16" to 1/8" range can be used for custom horns, hinges and the like. Here's a photo of a horizontal stab covered with .01 G10 and a photo of a 4 * that has the fuselage and control surfaces covered in G10 and wing glassed the traditional way with 3/4 oz. glass.

Scott

TeamSeacats

It's scientifically proven that Epoxy adheres better to cured polyester than polyester adheres to cured polyester. It's physical properties are just about twice that of polyester so if it needs to be light and stiff epoxy is the prescription. It is more sensitive to accurate mixing ratios than polyester is with the hardner/accelerator but it is a much better product to build or repair composite structures with.

Ed Lyerly

Scott,

Did you forget the link to the source of .01 fiberglass sheet ? I don't see it.

Thanks,
Ed

saramos

Oh My!, this is the second time I've done that on the same subject!! [sm=red_smile.gif]

Here's the link to the source I use:

http://k-mac-plastics.net/g10-fr4-sheets.htm

Ed Lyerly

Thanks Scott !
They have a very broad range of materials.
Ed

Avaiojet

Scott,

Yes, 3/4 oz. that was a type o.

Scott, because of you, I now have samples of fiberglass sheeting in my house. I want to see what sticks to it?

I have to glue "V" shaped balsa to it. This photo tells it all.

saramos

The two adhiesives I've used to any extent with it are polyurethane (gorilla glue) and contact cement. I've used CA to a lesser extent. In your application, CA would adhere well, but control would be the issue. With urethane glues, foaming expansion would be an issue. With Contact cement, coating both sides could be tricky, and probably the weakest bond. Perhaps it could be masked with tape, then contact cement applied on the skin, and also applied to the back of the strips.

Let me know what you come up with.

Scott

soarrich

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Part Number: 1331T69

http://www.mcmaster.com/