Raymond LeFlyr

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Hey Youse-all,

I just finshed a 1/2A CL trainer to be used on some of the kids in the neighborhood.

I have ordered some of the non-metalic lines from Sullivan so I'm ready to get started. However, I got to thinking that the SpiderWire brand of fishing line (non-metallic, non-stetech, non-monofilament variety) could work too. That way I could send the kids off with engines, balsa (or Coroplast), etc, - and lines - after they've gotten comfortable with flying. I'm a big believer that kids in the 11 - 12 and up range can handle these things themselves as long as they know what to do. I think there may be too much adult hand-holding in general out there. I think that the kids would prefer "I can do it".

Of course it would only be right for me to test the trainer, lines, whatever - at the R/C field with my peers - and maybe, just maybe some of them would like to take a turn. Ya think?

So has anyone tried SpiderWire? Is it draggy? More so that the Sullivan stuff? More than .008 braided (which always got too curly to fast for my liking)? Huh?

mikeainia

My Feedback: (1)

Many are using the Spiderwire "fusion" for 1/2A's. I use the 20lb size. Google "Palomar" knot - it is the recommended knot to use. Berkely makes a similar line - Fireline (be sure it is the "Spectra" type) which we've also used. Lines made from Dyneema or Spectra are not stretchy, nor draggy. Just make sure that you get a braided line, not the "super-monofilament".

The 'Non-metallic' Sullivan lines are HUGELY draggy - they are a rectangular cross-section, Kevlar fiber and they are huge. I highly recommend that you cancel your order! Kidding aside (well, actually I wasn't kidding), they make 1/2a's nearly unflyable, because they are so draggy. I only know a few who have tried them and none who ever tried them more than once.

Cost-wise, the fishing lines are about the same as stranded cable if you buy bulk cable (1000 ft. spools). If you buy pre-made cable, the fishing lines will be somewhat cheaper.

BtnFlyGuy

Last year I started a blog that was well-intended but not tended well so it sorta' went to the back burner, Before my energies went to other things Imanaged to write a few thoughts about the classical U/C that is making a comeback. If you go to my blog: btnflyguy.wordpress.com/, read a bit about my dog and then scroll down to my discussioon of lines, knots and other thoughts of the genre. Imight even start contributing again.

Raymond LeFlyr

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BtnFlyGuy,

Nice looking dog. My daughters keep saying we need a dog (we are no longer young), But I keep procrastinating. Maybe tomorrow.

The clinch knot has been my standard for decades - for fishing mostly. But I gotta try that Palomar - with 20 lb SpiderWire.

Thanks for the advise youse-all.

Hossfly

It works fine for 1/2A models. I use it to fly 1/2As up to 35' lines. I knot it just like for fishing. Just do it for grandkids, etc. Seems to last forever.

Gungadin

Hey Guys

How does this fishin line work compared to the Dacron line sold by Sig & Brodak ETC ? Is it better or worse drag wise ? Or maybe it's about the same.

BtnFlyGuy

Less drag and less likely to absorb moisture.

mikeainia

My Feedback: (1)

Also less stretch than dacron.

Gungadin

Sounds like a win win situation then. I hate to mess with .008 thou wires if I don't have to. I'll have to try some of this fishin line then. Thanks guys !

DwayneD

I use 30 lb test Spiderwrie for all my 1/2 a's from 35 feet to 42 this stuff works great!

CajunAce

I use Spiderwire for my lines. Works good since theres not a whole lot of pull.

Imade the mistake and used Monofiliment as my leadouts on my Lil Satan.............First loop 1 line broke and done 9 consecutive loops after that...............No damage done to plane.

Here is link to the vid!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqOHW...er_profilepage


Reckon the Brass leadouts tubes at the end of the wing played major part in hte breaking of hte line. That and the Killer Bee engine I was using might have played a tiny part as well.

Gungadin

Any difference between the Berkley Fireline and the Spiderwire ?

DwayneD

Here's a link for Fireline it looks like it would work just fine.
http://www.stripersonline.net/cart/shop/fireline.htm

Gungadin

I just found some 1/2A Dacron lines and measured the thickness with a micrometer. I'm getting about .009 dia. I noticed the 20lb test Berkley Fireline is also .009 dia.. So I'm wondering why the fishing line should be better than the dacron as far as drag goes. Unless the fishing lines has less friction with air molecules than dacron maybe. Are we sure that the fishing line has less drag ?

BtnFlyGuy

Take a look at the dacron lines under a good magnifier and you'll see that they are "fuzzier" and have a flat cross section that will twist in the airflow creating turbulant drag.

Lou Crane

About the only thing wrong with the recommended lines is that they aren't allowed in official AMA Competition events... yet, anyway. Metal lines are required for official Competition... Unless Hoss' post, stacked just under this one when I got here, has something on this. (Doubt it, but on the way to find out...)Mebbe legal someday, for 1/2A 'sporty' events, like stunt, possibly even for 1/2A combat?

The other difference between the 'Spectra' types and dacron is practically NO stretch, whereas dacron is very stretchy.

These lines are very slick, and the Palomar knot defeats that. There's an animated knot-tying site on line, so learning the simple Palomar knot is easy. Easier than trying to describe it in words, at least.

50+AirYears

I used to always use Dacron for my 1/2Aplanes, at least from .020 to my Cub .074s and .099s. Then one day, a buddy at the base club let me try his 42' .008" braided steel in place of the 35' Dacrons I was using. Bought myself a set the very next day. Major difference in speed and controlability. Haven't used Dacron since. I did buy a spool of 30 lb Spiderwire braided a couple months ago. Haven't used them yet, but I did some pull tests with a fishing scale, find them breaking around 28 lb pull. That seems to exceed the actual break test printed on the label.

Hossfly

No got anything on this, Lou. I was answering just for the sport and fun guys. I can fly with good space in my back yard on 55' lines which will always be legal stranded metal. However I have several 1/2s (all self "designed" ??) that I use to fly with grandkids and such in the backyard. 35' gives space for some running back when needed. I use the "spiderwire" and it works fine. Fish with it also.

I plan to get a couple trees removed this spring and I can fly and practice my new OTS on ignition on 60' metal lines. I have a couple Ringmasters and a Still Stuka that may well get some time then.
OOPS, way off topic, but you guys that want to fly 1/2 As on the spiderwire line, have a Ball. 2 1/2As are some 15 years old, one about 7 years old, and a F0x .19 powered profile has been flying since 1985. So much Fun! Ain't it wunnerful?

ferocious

The AMA has made it official. Spectra lines are OK for sport flying and combat. The 5 turn is recommended, but hard to tie.

From lots of testing, it looks like any brand of braided(definitely not the Fusion variety) will keep 50% plus of its mfg. rated strength even if just tied with a simple overhand knot tied on a bight(folded over line). The fusion type has very poor shock resistance, such as when the plane gets loose on the lines and hits the end.

Other knots let you tie exact length lines. The simplest one is a surgeon's. Fold the line over, tie an overhand knot on the bight, and then wrap the fold through the loop around second tie. Wet the knot with some spit and pull it up smoothly and evenly.

Another good knot is the figure eight knot. Very similar to the surgeon's knot. Fold the line and tie an over hand knot on the bight. Then wrap the fold over the other side of the loop, wrap it under, up through the loop, and then wet it and pull tight.

These knots will generally get 60+% of the rated breaking strength or more. Try and make sure the knots pull up smoothly, with even tension on both sides of the folded bight. But not to worry. Using the AMA recommended sizes(same diameter as for stranded stainless steel lines) even if the knot is not perfect the line will still have at least 50% of the rated strength and be adequately strong.

GallopingGhostler

I stopped by Wal-Mart last night looking for Spectra Line and they don't have it, except bundled with a reel that I don't need. I found Zebco Omniflex Monofilament Fishing Line. I bought a spool of it, 20 lb. test, 0.0185 dia. at 250 yards for $3 US tax included.

It is about double the diameter of the other stuff, but being mono and perfectly round, did a little "pull test" at the store, doesn't seem to stretch, thought this might work.

I am out of the dacron stuff.

Anyone fly with mono before?

BtnFlyGuy

I wrote a pretty good piece (Ithink) about knots to use for monofilement control lines. CHeck it out and let me know what you think, OK?

http://btnflyguy.wordpress.com/category/wingsn-things/

GallopingGhostler

I read through the knots, etc. for monofilament, good reading, BtnFlyGuy, thanks. Sounds like my 20 lb. test stuff will work. I'm going to check at the local sporting goods store, to see if they have anything reasonably priced such as Spectra. If not, then I'll go with the Omniflex.

It's a little larger in diameter but being perfectly round and smooth being plastic, I figured it probably isn't as draggy as dacron. For a couple bucks, what have I to lose?

Jim Thomerson

I used to fly 1/2A airplanes with Atwoods and Spacebugs on white sewing thread. New thread for each outing. Worked for me. Now I use 008 cables. They are fragile and take extra care and caution. No dragging them across the grass.

aspeed

I bought a roll of .009" steel a long time ago that I use.  It is a bit rusty now but I still use it for the little guys, gets kinky easily.  I was thinking of trying the Spiderwire stuff sometime though.  Galloping Ghostler, the .018" is pretty draggy for a 1/2A.  Just sayin. You can get a 1000 ft roll of .015 or .018" braided for about $30 from MBS Model Building Supplies for the bigger planes. (I hope that isn't an advertising infraction)

Gungadin

On my Stunt Man 23 with the Cox Golden Bee, I use SpiderWire EZ Braid 15 lb. test line. On anything with more power, like even a Black Widow, I would go with 20 lb. test, but for the Golden Bee the 15 lb. works fine.