Little Satan Electric
#1
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Little Satan Electric
I have a mad desire to get some small combat designs going. Mainly to try to generate some interest in flying some CL and combat. I want to keep it very simple and I need to learn about the power of these small electric systems and how they will work with certain combat design.
I have ordered a Lil Satan and the .049 equivilent power system from Brodak. I am a long time CL flier, and flew combat for over 12 years. I will eventually design my own aircraft around these power systems, but purchased a lil Satan, more for nostalgic reasons. I will scratch build one and preserve the kit.
I really want to go smaller to have some that would be more around an .010 or .020 size. Possibly for some indoor flying. Eventually I want the design to be quite durable, so continued flying will be easy after mid air and terra firma mishaps. I will try to keep this thread updated as I progress and of course any experiences with these types of set ups will be welcome.
I have ordered a Lil Satan and the .049 equivilent power system from Brodak. I am a long time CL flier, and flew combat for over 12 years. I will eventually design my own aircraft around these power systems, but purchased a lil Satan, more for nostalgic reasons. I will scratch build one and preserve the kit.
I really want to go smaller to have some that would be more around an .010 or .020 size. Possibly for some indoor flying. Eventually I want the design to be quite durable, so continued flying will be easy after mid air and terra firma mishaps. I will try to keep this thread updated as I progress and of course any experiences with these types of set ups will be welcome.
#5
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RE: Little Satan Electric
OK, the motor Brodak sells for 1/2 A does not have enough power on 2s. So I am going to try an Eflite 370 inrunner. It is much faster with the GWS 5-3 prop. We shall see. I will try it again tomorrow. My first flight attempts were not succesful. My initial impression is I need a little bigger plane to lower the wing loading. Just running an engine is lighter than having to carry this battery weight.
#6
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RE: Little Satan Electric
Don't know what the Brodak package consists of - here are some shots of one that I've been flying for a couple of years now -
The model is from a Danish website, but is basically a shrunk down FAI combat type. Spans about 28 inches. It probably has nearly twice the area of a Li'l Satan, if I remember my long-ago one. The airframe weighs right at 4 ounces - but the power system adds right at 5 oz.
The electronics consist of:
A BP-2212/6 or equivalent motor - 50 grams, 2200 Kv.
Prop is a 6-4 or a 7-6 cut to 6 inches.
An 18 amp - cheapo ESC
A Hubin timer
2-cell 800-1000 mah battery (weighs about 55 g.)
This setup will turn about 12000 RPM and fly the plane on 35 foot lines for about 3 minutes. The current draw is about 15 amps on the ground, which goes down slightly in the air. Performance is decent, though it would not be competitive against even a TD.
I tried a couple of other motors - I feel that the only way to get flying with 2 cells is a motor of at least 2000 Kv. If you can stand the weight increase of a 3 cell setup, you can probably drop to an 1750 or so Kv. Without looking at the Brodak specs, I would advise that you INCREASE the prop size. A 5-3 just isn't going to provide adequate thrust on 2 or 3 cells. I was able to fly a smallish stunt type on a 1800 Kv motor, but used a 7-4 prop. It was actually a nice flying little plane, till I flew it into a basketball backboard (I forgot that I was testing on 42 foot lines ).
The model is from a Danish website, but is basically a shrunk down FAI combat type. Spans about 28 inches. It probably has nearly twice the area of a Li'l Satan, if I remember my long-ago one. The airframe weighs right at 4 ounces - but the power system adds right at 5 oz.
The electronics consist of:
A BP-2212/6 or equivalent motor - 50 grams, 2200 Kv.
Prop is a 6-4 or a 7-6 cut to 6 inches.
An 18 amp - cheapo ESC
A Hubin timer
2-cell 800-1000 mah battery (weighs about 55 g.)
This setup will turn about 12000 RPM and fly the plane on 35 foot lines for about 3 minutes. The current draw is about 15 amps on the ground, which goes down slightly in the air. Performance is decent, though it would not be competitive against even a TD.
I tried a couple of other motors - I feel that the only way to get flying with 2 cells is a motor of at least 2000 Kv. If you can stand the weight increase of a 3 cell setup, you can probably drop to an 1750 or so Kv. Without looking at the Brodak specs, I would advise that you INCREASE the prop size. A 5-3 just isn't going to provide adequate thrust on 2 or 3 cells. I was able to fly a smallish stunt type on a 1800 Kv motor, but used a 7-4 prop. It was actually a nice flying little plane, till I flew it into a basketball backboard (I forgot that I was testing on 42 foot lines ).
#7
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Madison,
OH
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RE: Little Satan Electric
Yeah, it's tough to make that little wing carry much weight for a decent size battery. I just got a baby flite streak (150 sq in) and it may be able to handle a 3s battery pack, we shall see. But I'm sure your experimentation will yield better results as you progress. But when all is said and done I believe bigger is better. It's tough to make the electric Lil Satan perform like it would with a Black Widow glow engine though. That's just my opinion. I've been wrong before. Maybe you will prove me wrong again. Good luck to you.
#8
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RE: Little Satan Electric
Well, I got some flights in today. I was using an Eflite 370 motor, inrunner. I think in the 3500-4000 KV range. I forgot. I was using a GWS 5-3 and it flew very fast. I picked up an Eflite timer which I like as you can set the duration of flight and the rpm you want right before the flight.
The plane flew very well. Loops were very large though. I increased elevator throw and move the CG back. It felt a little wobly though so I think I went too far. It lost its ability to track smoothly.
Well, on my last flight, the motor died suddenly. Not sure why, I had programmed it for 2 minutes. I only got about one. Well of course it died as I was climbing high inverted. Pretty much went straight into the ground. Well, it broke the output shaft on the motor. Good thing I got it for half price. I think this is the benefits of an outrunner. More durable.
I was getting more speed than I felt I could with a black widow. Not quite a TD though. Not a really god one. So I just ordered another motor. This time an outrunner that is pretty high KV.
My next step will to design a new airframe. The lil Satan is just too small. My previous 1/2 A design for the TD and Norvel engines was around 250 sq. in. Foam and boom.
The plane flew very well. Loops were very large though. I increased elevator throw and move the CG back. It felt a little wobly though so I think I went too far. It lost its ability to track smoothly.
Well, on my last flight, the motor died suddenly. Not sure why, I had programmed it for 2 minutes. I only got about one. Well of course it died as I was climbing high inverted. Pretty much went straight into the ground. Well, it broke the output shaft on the motor. Good thing I got it for half price. I think this is the benefits of an outrunner. More durable.
I was getting more speed than I felt I could with a black widow. Not quite a TD though. Not a really god one. So I just ordered another motor. This time an outrunner that is pretty high KV.
My next step will to design a new airframe. The lil Satan is just too small. My previous 1/2 A design for the TD and Norvel engines was around 250 sq. in. Foam and boom.
#10
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RE: Little Satan Electric
I actually bet there is a lot more power available here than even the hottest glow engine could produce. It is a matter of finding a good combo though. I am not on a performance chase though, as I want to get some good flying durable stuff to promote interest. Get too fast and new guys will not be able to handle it and the planes will break.