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Another 'What Is It" Question

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Old 05-28-2011, 09:29 AM
  #1
N1EDM
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Default Another 'What Is It" Question

You're not going to believe this but some unknowledgable hobbiest has abandoned a rare and valuable treasure at our field for who knows what end....

I grabbed it (for protection, of course) but my CL background was from about 45 years ago. I think that it's a Ringmaster, but am not sure.

It also has a McCoy 35 up front that might just be able to run again...

I have two questions for all you CL guru's out there...

1. What is it??? and

2. Can I get parts for a McCoy 35 any more, such as gaskets, etc., for when I disassemble this engine and they invariably fall apart??

Thanks,

Bob
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Old 05-28-2011, 09:40 AM
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mikeainia
 
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Default RE: Another 'What Is It

1. Yes it is a Ringmaster -

2. No, you can't really get parts for a McCoy .35 unless you luck out on Ebay or something. I would NOT disassemble the engine unless absolutely necessary, anyway. Check that all bolts are tight and let it go at that, unless you find a leaky gasket or something. Most gaskets can be scratch made if needed. Be sure to use a fuel with plenty of CASTOR oil, also. The old McCoys won't last long on synthetic or low-oil modern RC fuels. Some of them didn't last long on 25% all castor!

Hard to believe that someone abandoned what appears to be a model that is ready to be flown - hard to believe that someone would drive away and forget it also. Maybe they couldn't get it started or forgot lines or something. If you find out what the story is, be sure and update us.
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Old 05-28-2011, 11:25 AM
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Default RE: Another 'What Is It

Nope, they left it on purpose. Our Club has two fields, one for RC and one for CL. The other day, someone left five cheap 2.4 GHz transmitters (very basic tx's that you get when you buy an all-in-one package). So, finding a CL model over on the RC Lean-to (the CL guys have their own areas) only meant that someone was hoping that this would go to a good home.

Thanks for the tip on the caster. My fuel is a synthetic/caster mix. I won't put anything in to it until I can get some all caster fuel.

If someone did leave that plane accidentally (which is doubtful) I'll be one of the first to hear about it and it'll get returned. But in all likelihood, someone was cleaning out their cellar and wanted to see if someone would give it a good home.

I might try CL again.... with this plane, if the engine works OK. I wonder if I should use 65-ft lines or something shorter??

Bob
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Old 05-28-2011, 01:19 PM
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Default RE: Another 'What Is It

.015 multi strand lines about 57 to 60 feet from eye to eye. Wrap them with soft wire like in the AMA general manual. The model is a Sterling S-2 Ringmaster. I'd do the same as mikeainia about running the engine, 25% castor fuel, 10x6 well balanced prop, see how it goes.
Chris...
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Old 05-28-2011, 01:27 PM
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Default RE: Another 'What Is It

Only one more piece of advice from me... run the engine rich not full out lean. McCoy engines were made from rather mild steel and it was easy to overheat them and at a minimum wreck a head gasket... at worst it might damage the fit of the parts. Also the engine wasnt designed to start with a electric starter so put on a heavy glove and hand flip the prop.
Bob
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Old 05-28-2011, 01:50 PM
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Default RE: Another 'What Is It

Actually the model looks to be a Ringmaster S-1A which had a sheeted leading edge. They had a plastic canopy which easily sheared off in an inverted landing.

Fire it up and have a ball.

John
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Old 05-28-2011, 02:25 PM
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Default RE: Another 'What Is It

Well, the plane does have a sheeted LE. The tank looks pretty ragged though. I might scout around to see if Perfect still makes wedge tanks like this one.

As you can see, it's held in place with a chain, but the tank has no 'wiggle' when I try to move it. I wonder if it might be epoxied in place.

Which Manual are you referring to for the leadouts? There are a bunch of manuals on the AMA website. Which one do I look for?

Thanks,

Bob
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Old 05-28-2011, 03:36 PM
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Default RE: Another 'What Is It

Humm, you need to lose that chain around the tank!!! Also, if you try to run it, be sure that you use a good filter between the tank and the engine. Actually many are running a plastic klunk tank which you may have on hand. If you want to stay with the old wedge tank you can get one from Brodak at www.brodak.com. You can get control lines, handle etc. there too.

Expect to get dizzy so try to hold your flight to a minute or so in the beginning. Put in a measured amount of fuel and run the engine while you time it. Then you can run off enough fuel before launching to hold the initial flights to a relatively short time.

John
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Old 05-28-2011, 05:10 PM
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Default RE: Another 'What Is It

HI John,
I was curious about that chain... actually, the tank already seems to be glued in (epoxy?) but am not sure yet. The only thing I've done is to hit it with some windex and get the dust off the wings... I would love to clean that engine up and restore it (without losing the paint on the cylinder and head) and also check out for rust inside. I think that will be important...

It's been so long since I've flown CL, I'll probably get dizzy by the time I've made my first lap

Any other Novice hints from anyone else will be greatfully appreciated
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Old 05-28-2011, 05:50 PM
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Default RE: Another 'What Is It

For fuel I would go with 5%nitro 29% castor or 10% nitro and 29% castor oil. (Brodak sells both)

That prop may be iffy (cannot tell from the photo). Unless it is a well balanced wood prop, I would use a modern prop (10/6 is a good starting point).

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Old 05-28-2011, 06:26 PM
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Default RE: Another 'What Is It

If you get to dizzy just do a loop or 2, if your are up to it flip it over on its back do half a lap then back over right side up again...repeat as necessary. You should be able to tell when it is going to run out of gas because it will lean out and run like a stripped ass ape for about a lap and a half before it shuts down.

I learned to fly a Ringmaster with a McCoy .35 just like yours. My Grandfather (an old control liner) split a wooden dowel in half and that was what we used for a leading edge when we built it. He covered it with bandannas from the Dollar General Store and doped it with Aerogloss, he made the lead out from lawn mower throttle cable. After crashing it a couple times and finding all the week spots, I kid you not the damn thing would bounce when it hit the ground. I recall him repairing it with a couple #6 finishing nails! The last time it was flown my Grandfather (in his late 60s then) fell down and dropped the handle, it flew knife edge for about 30 yards on its own before rekitting itself, that was about 25 years ago. The good news is my Grandfather is still with me at 94 years young but that old airplane is long gone. Flying my Ringmaster with him were some of my fondest childhood memories, would give anything to take my sons back with me for a day to play some sand lot baseball and fly control line. The smell of cracking open a fresh kit still reminds me of it to this day...thanks for posting you made my day!
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Old 05-28-2011, 07:34 PM
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Default RE: Another 'What Is It

Quote:
ORIGINAL: N1EDM


Which Manual are you referring to for the leadouts? There are a bunch of manuals on the AMA website. Which one do I look for?

Thanks,

Bob
The leadouts look to be already wrapped - judging by the original pix. You can use a similar wrap to make up lines, if you can't find pre-made lines. Perhaps one of the control line flyers in your club can give it a once-over and lend a set of lines. The "manual" cited above is the AMA rulebook - Control Line "General" rules. You can download from the AMA site. DO pull test before flying - if you don't have a pull test scale, at least give a hefty pull while someone holds the plane. If you yank the bellcrank out or break a leadout, it's better that it happen on the ground.
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Old 05-29-2011, 03:46 AM
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Default RE: Another 'What Is It

Green River,

Thanks for the advice... I wish that you were closer, I'd give you the plane... it'd be worth it. And, thanks for the suggestion on the fuel. I would never have thought to use anything with that much oil. As for the prop, I'm sure that it's seen better days - that would be the first thing to go. IT would make for a very nice decoration.

I'm glad that this story brought back memories. I bet your dad would get a kick out of seeing a picture of the plane... The covering is wrinkled but I bet he won't care.

Mikeainia, Yup, I knew about the pull test - we never did that in days of old. It makes sense though.

I remember when I was about 12, I had a profile plane with about a 24" wingspan - forget if the wing was built up or solid... Anyway, just because no one told me that it COULDN'T be done, I put a Cox .049 onto the nose (probably with only two screws, being only 12) and the darned thing actually flew. It was only level flight, but it flew!!

I wonder if anyone else did any kind of experiments like that?

Bob
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Old 05-29-2011, 04:28 AM
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Default RE: Another 'What Is It

My goodness, what a flood of memories.

At $5.95, the McCoy Red Head got me and many other young boys into modeling. Never could afford a new one but plenty of used ones about that one could trade a pack of smokes for.

Remember to take off from the downwind side of the circle and any loops with the wind to your back. My childhood basement looked like a "Sterling" shelf at a local hobby shop. The best performer seemed to be the Yak. My buddy had a "Buster". We campeigned those birds for two New Jersey summers with only one operable glow plug between us. Those engines could take a boat load of abuse and still come to life when you hooked up the battery leads.

My fleet Cadilac was a Ringmaster SR. sporting a Christmas New Veco .35

Watch out for any cloth hinges.

Ray W.
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Old 05-29-2011, 04:13 PM
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Default RE: Another 'What Is It

Hi Guys,

Well, I have egg on my face. As it turns out, the plane WAS left at the field for someone (no ID on it, and left with other stuff that was being given away) but we got that all sorted out this morning.

The plane has been returned and hopefully, as I write this, it has already been taken up for a few laps during an event that they were having today at the CL field.

If nothing else, this gave us all a bunch of great memories... and thanks for the tips. Who knows - I may keep on the lookout for something that goes around in circles just for the heck of it... And apologies to Brian and Dave for my misunderstanding/foul-up.

Thanks again for sharing all your thoughts,

Bob
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Old 05-29-2011, 05:09 PM
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Default RE: Another 'What Is It

At least an honest person found it first.
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Old 05-29-2011, 06:32 PM
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Default RE: Another 'What Is It

Chuckling,

I'm tempted to build another Nobler or Skyhawk.
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Old 05-30-2011, 10:21 AM
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Default RE: Another 'What Is It

Thanks, Green.... and go for it, E-Gap....
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Old 05-30-2011, 12:00 PM
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Default RE: Another 'What Is It

Hey Guys, why don't you just build a new Ringmaster S-1. Here is a set of FREE plans. All you have to do is copy them to a thumb drive or floppy disk and take them to your local copy shop (Fed EX for instance) and have them print a set at 100% to get full sized plans. These are NOTcopyrighted so feel free to use them. They have every thing you need (rib templates etc.) and show the modernized S-1 which is still legal for Old Time Stunt contests. Lots of old Fox 35 stunt engines are around which is ideal for this model but a modern 25 will fly these Ringmasters and would be lighter and have less vibration.

John
www.wix.com/jccrall/ringmasters-rule

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Old 05-30-2011, 03:11 PM
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Thanks!!

Bob
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Old 05-31-2011, 04:21 AM
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Default RE: Another 'What Is It


Quote:
ORIGINAL: jcralley

Hey Guys, why don't you just build a new Ringmaster S-1. Here is a set of FREE plans. All you have to do is copy them to a thumb drive or floppy disk and take them to your local copy shop (Fed EX for instance) and have them print a set at 100% to get full sized plans. These are NOT copyrighted so feel free to use them. They have every thing you need (rib templates etc.) and show the modernized S-1 which is still legal for Old Time Stunt contests. Lots of old Fox 35 stunt engines are around which is ideal for this model but a modern 25 will fly these Ringmasters and would be lighter and have less vibration.

John
www.wix.com/jccrall/ringmasters-rule

OR, you can download Adobe reader X (for free), which allows you to print lage PDF's on A4 sheets (using the TIle function)
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Old 05-31-2011, 04:52 PM
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Default RE: Another 'What Is It

Just a quick follow-up on the Ringmaster. The plane got back in the air the day that I brought it back... The owner checked it over and says that it flew really nicely. Nice to see that happen after something that might not have flown since the 70's....

Bob
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Old 06-02-2011, 06:17 PM
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Default RE: Another 'What Is It

N1EDM
I hope the owner gave you a turn on the handle.

If you were close to Indianapolis I would let you try my Ringmaster Trainer. It has a throttled Blue Bird 25 up front. The black knob on the handle is the throttle. The Red piece on the right side is the U/Tronics unit that I sell.
Clancy
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Old 06-03-2011, 04:25 PM
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HI Clancy,

He would have let me try it if I had stayed, but as it was, as soon as I gave it back to the rightful owner, H headed home to watch, of all things, the Indy 500!! I haven't missed that race since they began broadcasting it in the mid-70's - even when I was deployed overseas.

I like your plane, with the combination of RC & CL.... Nice looking too!

I'm sure I'll get a shot at something someday. Thanks for asking,

Bob
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Old 06-04-2011, 12:08 PM
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Default RE: Another 'What Is It

Bob
How do you like my new CL Scale model?

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_10522101/tm.htm

Clancy

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