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1960 Fox Combat Special: Orig. Box, Manual & Even A Service Bulletin!

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Old 03-10-2012, 08:28 PM
  #1
Deandome
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Default 1960 Fox Combat Special: Orig. Box, Manual & Even A Service Bulletin!

I'm wondering if there's any significant value to my late father's 1960 .35 Fox Combat Sprecial. I'm sure that's the year/model, as it has a square, no-insert intake, the head is not colored & there's a 4-bolt backplate w/pressure-fitting in it's center.

It's in it's original Fox red & black box (the lower part of box is silver), has the original double-sided owners manual, and...maybe most uniquely...a "Special Bulletin to Fox Combat Special Owners" that deals w/a fuel/RPM problem & the solution to it (filing down a cylinder 'baffle'). And to cap it off, on the reverse of this bulletin is a hand=written note to my dad further detailing what this problem is/was & talking about what the writer personally did to fix things & give the engine max RPMs (tuned the shaft & reshaped the piston baffle). This note is signed by "G. Moir...G. Muir" or something like that.

I can easily scan/send you copies of the docs, but good, macro photos of the engine/box might take some work (I have a crappy camera...but I'll try if there's any real interest). The shaft doesn't turn by hand, but I remember it doing so 25 years ago, and I certainly haven't run the motor since then....I'm pretty sure it hasn't run since 1960-63. The ONLY writing on the engine is the word "FOX"...horizontally-aligned, underneath the cooling fins on the needle-valve side; no displacement number, "Rocket" or any other word/symbol ANYWHERE.

My question is...is this worth anything? Maybe $40 shipped to someone in USA (this is a question, not an offer)? Despite the connection to my dad, I have no real connection to the engine & would rather see it put in the hands of someone who might be able to use and/or appreciate it.

Whaddya think

Thanks!


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Old 03-10-2012, 10:06 PM
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Default RE: 1960 Fox Combat Special: Orig. Box, Manual & Even A Service Bulletin!

On ebay with the box and lightly used these sometimes sell for $60 to $120. If the engine shows signs of hard use broken head fins, bent needle valve, drilled out or broken motor mounts they can go for as little as $20 without the box. So if you want a fair price for it take good pictures and post it to ebay.
Bob
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Old 03-11-2012, 08:11 AM
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Default RE: 1960 Fox Combat Special: Orig. Box, Manual & Even A Service Bulletin!


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Deandome

I'm wondering if there's any significant value to my late father's 1960 .35 Fox Combat Sprecial. My question is...is this worth anything? Maybe $40 shipped to someone in USA (this is a question, not an offer)? Despite the connection to my dad, I have no real connection to the engine & would rather see it put in the hands of someone who might be able to use and/or appreciate it.

//SNIP//

Whaddya think

Thanks!

As one who buys and sells various engines and kits on eBay from time to time, I say to follow "icerinkdad's" advice. His answer is about as good as you're going to get.

I will add a couple points. I have seen some items that go for a high price and a week later a like item goes for 1/4 that price and vice versa. I have several Foxes that have no size on them, just FOX. IMO, that was a serious mistake in Fox's marketing. But if you want one of such engines to go to someone special, then eBay is the place, simply because those that want such item are searching there and will pay the highest price. Good Luck.
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Old 03-12-2012, 04:47 AM
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Default RE: 1960 Fox Combat Special: Orig. Box, Manual & Even A Service Bulletin!

Thanks!! It's in perfect shape, externally, nary a scratch on the mounting hole area, much less cracks/re-drilling marks. I don't think it was ever really flown; I'm thinking my dad was breaking it in when he ran into the RPM issue...then he sent a letter to Fox & they replied with the service bulletin w/the handwritten addendum on the back. He may well have never even bothered to take it apart & perform the 'surgery' they recommended in the bulletin.

What are your thoughts on taking it apart to (hopefully) clean up the 'innards' vs. leaving it as-is...where the driveshaft is 'locked'? Being a loyal 'Antiques Roadshow' fan, I know that in most of those cases, the answer is always 'LEAVE IT ALONE'.

But something tells me that maybe in this case, maybe purchasers would shy away if they're not certain it's repairable. There's no corrosion/rust, so it's gotta be locked-up because it's gummed up with old castor or something, which I'd think would be pretty easy to clean up w/the right solvent (which one?).

So whaddya think...would the buyer prefer to fix it themselves & not risk having a novice mess it up while trying to fix it, or would they shy away unless they know things are at least spinning freely? And I'm pretty sure he'd open it up to clean & lube it...and check to see if the cylinder head protrusion was filed down like the service bulletin advises owners to do. And let me know if you/anyone wants to see a scan of bulletin...I'm thinking a LOT of 1960-model owners would love to see that, as most of them probby never even noticed the problem & thus never got the bulletin!
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Old 03-12-2012, 09:40 AM
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Default RE: 1960 Fox Combat Special: Orig. Box, Manual & Even A Service Bulletin!

DONT OPEN THE ENGINE! Parts like gaskets are not easily available so opening up the engine only guarantees that you will not be able to put it back together correctly. Instead bolt a prop to the motor and put it in a preheated oven at 200 (no more than that). The heat will loosen the hardened castor oil enough so that while hot you can turn it over. Then you can put a few drops if 3 in 1 oil in the exaust and intake to keep it free. DONT force the motor over if the heat doesnt loosen the engine up as that can bend internal parts.
Bob
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Old 03-12-2012, 10:04 AM
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Default RE: 1960 Fox Combat Special: Orig. Box, Manual & Even A Service Bulletin!


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Deandome

//SNIP//
What are your thoughts on taking it apart to (hopefully) clean up the 'innards' vs. leaving it as-is...where the driveshaft is 'locked'? Being a loyal 'Antiques Roadshow' fan, I know that in most of those cases, the answer is always 'LEAVE IT ALONE'.

But something tells me that maybe in this case, maybe purchasers would shy away if they're not certain it's repairable. There's no corrosion/rust, so it's gotta be locked-up because it's gummed up with old castor or something, which I'd think would be pretty easy to clean up w/the right solvent (which one?).

So whaddya think...would the buyer prefer to fix it themselves & not risk having a novice mess it up while trying to fix it, or would they shy away unless they know things are at least spinning freely? And I'm pretty sure he'd open it up to clean & lube it...and check to see if the cylinder head protrusion was filed down like the service bulletin advises owners to do. And let me know if you/anyone wants to see a scan of bulletin...I'm thinking a LOT of 1960-model owners would love to see that, as most of them probby never even noticed the problem & thus never got the bulletin!
MY OPINION: I never even think about the thoughts of eBay bidders. I have never been able to fruitfully predict what they will buy and don't buy. I have one rule for my own selling and that is to provide as much truthful information as I can about what I am offering for sell. If I feel the need I will put a reserve price on the item.
One thing I do have some fun with is these "smart alecs" that have access to several computers each with a different account and they will keep bidding THEIR item up thinking a bidder that is bidding up will continue to do so. I like to get them up to the last minute and then not bid again. Several times I have found the item relisted after they find themselves the top bidder. I play honestly and expect same unless I find someone trying to hose me.

So if you have concerns, then do as you please however if you say it is a long time in storage, and feels gummed up, you keep the unknowing from buying and the Collector doesn't mind as he knows what to do about that. Collectors can make them like new in a short period. That is their hobby.
If you must, then load it up with any good Penetrating Oil and let set for a day or so. Then keep playing with it until the bearings give, by using a LONG prop and trying to turn it over. Once it starts keep applying oil, then wash it out with 90% rubbing alcohol. Get it dry and reoil. That should last several months if kept indoors.

OOPs just saw icerinkdad's input. That sounds better than mine.
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Old 03-12-2012, 10:13 AM
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Default RE: 1960 Fox Combat Special: Orig. Box, Manual & Even A Service Bulletin!

"And let me know if you/anyone wants to see a scan of bulletin...I'm thinking a LOT of 1960-model owners would love to see that, as most of them probby never even noticed the problem & thus never got the bulletin!"

I bought a new 1960 Fox Combat Special as a kid and flew it in several combat matches. I still have that engine today. I definitely would be interested in seeing a scan of the bulletin. Thank you.
Dennis
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Old 03-12-2012, 12:56 PM
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Default RE: 1960 Fox Combat Special: Orig. Box, Manual & Even A Service Bulletin!

The name you are seeing is George Moyer and he ran the service department years ago. He was a well known speed flyer.
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Old 03-12-2012, 07:01 PM
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Default RE: 1960 Fox Combat Special: Orig. Box, Manual & Even A Service Bulletin!

I think I've properly attached both the bulletin & the letter from George Moyer (thanks for the info, tlrascal) to my dad. Looks like Mr. Moyer hand-'tuned' the shaft on this motor!!

Feel free to pass these document images to anyone/everyone you know who in the CL sect(or) who might be interested. And while I might go to ebay, I'd probby prefer to sell it here or on another forum, as you seem to get more//better buyers/suitors when you target-market. I sold all my Scalextric slot car stuff @ slotcarillustrated.com like that, including several valuable cars ($100+...I paid $35 in 2005 [X(] ).

I'm thinking about $80, including shipping to CUSA. I'll try to get pics taken in the next day or so, but send me a PM if you might be interested.

Thanks for all your help!
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Old 03-13-2012, 05:13 AM
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Default RE: 1960 Fox Combat Special: Orig. Box, Manual & Even A Service Bulletin!

Deandome,
Thanks for posting the bulletin/letter. I belong to the Chicagoland Circle Cutters model airplane club. The members mostly fly control line stunt, combat, and sport airplanes. We fly at the Ned Brown Woods forest preserve on Golf Road in Rolling Meadows,IL (just east of Woodfield Mall) which isn't too far from you. Weather permitting, we normally have several guys flying at the field on weekend mornings from 8 to 12AM. You are welcome to stop by any time as I'm sure the members would be glad to fondle the Combat Special and make you a reasonable offer.
Dennis
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Old 03-13-2012, 05:10 PM
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Default RE: 1960 Fox Combat Special: Orig. Box, Manual & Even A Service Bulletin!

It's highly possible that the circlips that hold the wristpin in place are rusted and have lost their spring tension. If or when they pop out of their grooves they will ruin the engine. They should be replaced before trying to run the engine.
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Old 02-18-2014, 10:36 AM
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Do you still have the Fox Combat special for sale. I know it's been quite a while since you first posted, but I just ran across it.
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