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  1. #1

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    Can Anyone Identify This Plane?

    Hi Guys,

    I had been looking at this plane for almost a year, hanging from the celing of a local hobby shop, and bought it last week ($65). It's my first CL airplane. I've been flying RC for quite some time, but never CL. Well, that's not quite true. Last year, at one of our club's celebrations, there were lots of guys around the CL field (off to one side of our property) and they were allowing us to take turns flying an old trainer someone provided. I flew that plane 3 or 4 times that day and really enjoyed it. Encouragingly, I didn't get dizzy or sick by turning in circles.
    So, with that history I decided to buy this plane. I knew by looking at the engine (an Enya 35 V) the price was good. The plane was a little dirty and the engine was a mess with old baked-on oils. So I took the engine out and ran her through a crock pot of antifreeze and now she looks new. I've attached the engine to a break-in board and will go outside, in about thirty minutes to see if she still runs.
    Several of the guys in the club have said they'll be glad to help me get the plane in the air. But the local guys didn't know anything about this plane. Any comments?

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  2. #2
    BtnFlyGuy's Avatar
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    RE: Can Anyone Identify This Plane?

    My goodness! You got a heck of a deal there! Ican't identify the plane, but it sure looks well built. I suggest that you don't run synthetic oil through that engine. From the looks of it, it was run on castor oil which built up a protective coat of varnsh on all the moving parts. The synthetic oiil will strip the coating out and it is likely to run very hot and may seize. DOn't be too concerened if you do run it before you read this, just change fuel and run it as if you are breaking it in again from new.
    Best of luck and enjoy it!
    Justin
    Once more... with gusto!

  3. #3

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    RE: Can Anyone Identify This Plane?

    Thanks Justin, I just came back from running the engine and she was happy to comply. I never run synthetic oils and almost always add a small amount of castor no matter what the bottle says. I've always had good luck that way.
    Yep, the airplane is in really good shape... The Monokote (if that's what it is) has no ripps or tares. After I hit the whole thing with soap & water she cleaned up very well. See the photo of the engine after the antifreeze bath.
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  4. #4

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    RE: Can Anyone Identify This Plane?

    You betcha' you got a good deal there. Being Cincinnati, you're in the middle of one area of the country that was heavy into CL stunt around the 70s.

    Look closely at the covering. See any seams or anywhere that looks like a Monokote overlap? No? That's because those planes were carefully finished by hand. Covered with silkspan (paper) or silk, spray painted and rubbed out. The lines look like one of the many originals that are probably best represented by Les McDonald's Stiletto and Bob Hunt's Genesis. The one you have isn't either of those however.
    Good flying wit ya today

  5. #5
    Hossfly's Avatar
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    RE: Can Anyone Identify This Plane?

    If that is your AMA number then so be it. If that number on the right wing is NOT yours, my bet is that you can contact AMA and find out who was the original owner then find out who built it.
    Horrace Cain AMA L-93

    Peace is the brief glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.\" T. Jefferson

  6. #6

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    RE: Can Anyone Identify This Plane?


    ORIGINAL: Hossfly

    If that is your AMA number then so be it. If that number on the right wing is NOT yours, my bet is that you can contact AMA and find out who was the original owner then find out who built it.

    Funny this would come up today. I just got the AMA magazine and they had a mention of how often they get inquires. Seems people are looking for addresses often. The "in the Air" column says that "AMA personnel are unable to give out contact information about members, but district vice presidents may be able to" help.
    Good flying wit ya today

  7. #7
    GallopingGhostler's Avatar
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    RE: Can Anyone Identify This Plane?

    I'd say his best bet is to go back to the hobby shop where he purchased the plane. They might know or direct him to the individual who built it. Due to the recent onslaught of privacy violations with people stealing identities, organizations like AMA may be more reluctant to disclose that information, unless coordinated through a district VP whom they have close contact with and who has already pre-screened the request to know it is genuine.
    George Hostler
    Clovis MADS AMA Club, Vintage R/C Society (VRCS)
    And we know love by this, that He laid down His life for us, and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. 1 John 3:16

  8. #8

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    RE: Can Anyone Identify This Plane?

    My guess is it is someones own design or kit bash. It is unusual to see a slick airplane like that with a rectangular wing.

  9. #9

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    RE: Can Anyone Identify This Plane?

    Thanks to all of you who have responded, but I'd still like to know who designed & made this plane.
    I did look closely at the covering and it does seem to be a "Monokote" type product. Finding the seems was pretty easy, but still it's in very good shape. I guess the plane was hung-up in the builder's home or workshop for some time because when I cleaned the plane with soap & water a lot of "yellow" nicotine came off the wings. So, I'm guessing the builder was a smoker, while working on other planes or projects.

    Yesterday I went to the AMA web site to try to look up the number on the wing..., but without a name to also add I couldn't find out anything more. Your suggestion about contacting a vice president is a very good one. I'll start that soon.

    As mentioned above, I did run the engine - twice yesterday. It started up right away (each time) and seemed very strong. I'm loving it!!

    Now I'll check the metal tank for any needed repairs, then put the engine back in the propper compartment and wait for the guys to teach me how to fly such a wonderfully good bargan.

    Thanks to all you guys for your input...keep it coming!!

    Mikie

  10. #10

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    RE: Can Anyone Identify This Plane?

    Hi Guys
    I started posting this model on the"What model are you Putting your Diesels in" thread but decided to transfer it to this one. I guess I just want to test ones knowledge on this forum.
    The model is being built from a European kit plan from the 50's this is the only informaton forthcoming from me till model in completed and ready to fly.
    The model is being built for the Webra Mach 1 series 3. Engine has not fired a beat as yet but will be bench run next week weather permiting.
    No prizes bar a pat on the back but looking for that one modeler that knows what it is. More pics provided soon.

    Cheers

    Fredo
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  11. #11
    GallopingGhostler's Avatar
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    RE: Can Anyone Identify This Plane?

    ORIGINAL: Mikie 1 Thanks to all of you who have responded, but I'd still like to know who designed & made this plane.
    The closest thing I could find that resembles the plane is the Mirage:

    [link]http://www.outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=2345[/link]



    George Hostler
    Clovis MADS AMA Club, Vintage R/C Society (VRCS)
    And we know love by this, that He laid down His life for us, and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. 1 John 3:16

  12. #12

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    RE: Can Anyone Identify This Plane?

    AMA did not always track numbers, and lost a bunch of records when they moved from Reston, VA to Muncie, IN. Unless you're a life member, your number doesn't always stay with you. If you drop out for a year or so, you'll likely be assigned a new number upon rejoining. I'd suggest contacting these folks in case your plane was a known competition model: http://www.control-line.org/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabid=1
    Also look inside the cowl and fuselage to see if there's a name. You might get lucky.

  13. #13

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    RE: Can Anyone Identify This Plane?

    Hello Mikey,
    It looks a lot like a slightly modified Chizler.
    Regards,
    Dean Pappas

  14. #14

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    RE: Can Anyone Identify This Plane?


    ORIGINAL: PWF63
    ...The model is being built for the Webra Mach 1 series 3. Engine has not fired a beat as yet but will be bench run next week weather permiting.

    Cheers

    Fredo
    I really like the Webra Mk-1 in profile models. Haven't used mine in awhile but with the needle upside down as you have yours, it only needs a couple of inches of fuel line to the tank and the needle is protected by the fuselage. Excellent runner. Treat it nice!

    George

  15. #15
    Hello everyone,
    this is my first post here, so please bear with me.

    Your plane sure looks like a Graupner Ultra Stunter.(Designed by F.W. Biesterfeld). I built one in the sixties, which was powered by an O.S. Pet II, (horrible engine, almost impossible to start) and two years ago I built another one. My new one has a Webra Rekord 1.5 cc Diesel and it flies nicely. I was surprised how small the model is. That is why I enlarged the plans by 50% and built the "Ultra Stunter 150" from scratch and put an Evolution 36 in it. Flies great on 58 ft lines!

    I hope you will enjoy yours!

    Regards,

    Werner

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  16. #16

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    My guess on the European airplane is a Graupner Scorpion, a sort of Stuka looking airplane. I had a Pet 09, probably first model, around 1960. It did not start well, but ran OK in a sport stunt profile.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Super27 View Post
    Hello everyone,

    Your plane sure looks like a Graupner Ultra Stunter.(Designed by F.W. Biesterfeld). I built one in the sixties, which was powered by an O.S. Pet II, (horrible engine, almost impossible to start) and two years ago I built another one. My new one has a Webra Rekord 1.5 cc Diesel and it flies nicely. I was surprised how small the model is. That is why I enlarged the plans by 50% and built the "Ultra Stunter 150" from scratch and put an Evolution 36 in it. Flies great on 58 ft lines!

    I hope you will enjoy yours!

    Regards,

    Werner

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    Mikie 1 my appolgies as I have no info on your mystery but the post from this gentleman just floored me and I got to share this:

    Werner welcome to the forum and I am so glad you posted. Your Ultra Stunters are beautiful. I spent several years in a small town called Geoppingen compliments uncle sam about 1967 and was quite a regular at the local hobby shop among the items that came home with me was a simple plan sheet for your airplane and it must have struck a cord as I kept it all these years but sadly never built one.

    Anyway I had to share and sorry folks for drifting off subject a little.

    John

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    \"Keep your controllines tight\"

  18. #18
    John,
    Thank you for the nice welcome! Yeah, that plan looks very familiar... 1967 or 68 was when I built the first one.

    Actually, I have to revise my guess for Fredo's airplane. Since the .elevator tips at the trailing edge are sort of squared off, and the long wingspan, my guess is that Fredo's plane is a Champion, also a Biesterfeld design.

    Werner

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  19. #19
    GallopingGhostler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikie 1 View Post
    I knew by looking at the engine (an Enya 35 V) the price was good. The plane was a little dirty and the engine was a mess with old baked-on oils. So I took the engine out and ran her through a crock pot of antifreeze and now she looks new. I've attached the engine to a break-in board and will go outside, in about thirty minutes to see if she still runs.

    Several of the guys in the club have said they'll be glad to help me get the plane in the air. But the local guys didn't know anything about this plane. Any comments?
    Mikie, so far all have taken a stab at what plane you may have. Although similar to the Mirage, it is not that. Have you posed your question to the http://www.brotherhoodofthering.info/ (Brotherhood of the Ring), http://www.stunthanger.com/index.html (Stunt Hangar), or http://www.clstunt.com/ (Stuka Stunt) forum? You might find someone in one or all of these forums who might be able to ID the plane for you.

    By the way, that Enya is a nice looking clean engine.
    Last edited by GallopingGhostler; 10-21-2013 at 10:59 AM. Reason: Add forum links.
    George Hostler
    Clovis MADS AMA Club, Vintage R/C Society (VRCS)
    And we know love by this, that He laid down His life for us, and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. 1 John 3:16

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Super27 View Post
    John,
    Thank you for the nice welcome! Yeah, that plan looks very familiar... 1967 or 68 was when I built the first one.

    Actually, I have to revise my guess for Fredo's airplane. Since the .elevator tips at the trailing edge are sort of squared off, and the long wingspan, my guess is that Fredo's plane is a Champion, also a Biesterfeld design.

    Werner

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    You got it Werner. It is indead the Graupner Champion. The 3rd of the Biesterfeld designs in the series. The Super Stunter and Ultra Stunter being the other 2.
    I'll [post some more construction pics soon. Model is still at the undercoat stage as we have had and still are getting bad windy weather, totally unsuitable for spraying.
    It will be painted in the same colours as the kit box. Ronald Valentine still has this kit available for about $300.00 US I think. He can keep it at this price.

    Cheers
    Fredo
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  21. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Super27 View Post
    John,
    Thank you for the nice welcome! Yeah, that plan looks very familiar... 1967 or 68 was when I built the first one.

    Actually, I have to revise my guess for Fredo's airplane. Since the .elevator tips at the trailing edge are sort of squared off, and the long wingspan, my guess is that Fredo's plane is a Champion, also a Biesterfeld design.

    Werner

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    Hi Werner
    If you look up Page 6 of the" What Planes are your Diesels in" thread you'll see the pics of the completed Champion.

    Fredo


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