Veco Chief
03-01-2015, 07:49 PM
#3
The 1/8" sheet fuselage seem flimsy so I put 1/8" sheet length wise on the bottom. I tried to to soak some 3/32" sheet and form the top but it just would split, I didn't have any soft balsa so I planked the top. We will see how that works. I think I will not cut out the cockpit holes to save some strength,just paint them. I will need to find some thing to make windshields out of.
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AJ Sun (01-14-2024)
03-22-2015, 05:58 PM
#7
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7V6g2dQwFw4
It is a lot faster than I expected. It really pulls on the lines. I flew it on 60' lines I ordered some 70' lines. It has a 10X6 prop. I ordered 11X5 and 11X4 props I hope will slow it down some.
It is a lot faster than I expected. It really pulls on the lines. I flew it on 60' lines I ordered some 70' lines. It has a 10X6 prop. I ordered 11X5 and 11X4 props I hope will slow it down some.
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Hye Flyer (01-15-2024)
03-23-2015, 04:16 PM
#8
Joe,
Looks good! Congratulations!
Confirm which engine you're using? Looks like a Fox, but hotter than the Stunt 35. Nice steady run, too.
Glad to see you settle in after the first lap or two 'flutters'. Lazy-8s are fun, no? Good way to prevent turning dizziness... Very nice landing, too.
To slow the airspeed, look at that 11-4. It lets the engine wind where it is happy at 2/3 the theoretical forward speed for the same RPM (6" pitch vs 4" pitch.) Of course the extra inch may pull RPM down some too.
Envy you your flying site...
Looks good! Congratulations!
Confirm which engine you're using? Looks like a Fox, but hotter than the Stunt 35. Nice steady run, too.
Glad to see you settle in after the first lap or two 'flutters'. Lazy-8s are fun, no? Good way to prevent turning dizziness... Very nice landing, too.
To slow the airspeed, look at that 11-4. It lets the engine wind where it is happy at 2/3 the theoretical forward speed for the same RPM (6" pitch vs 4" pitch.) Of course the extra inch may pull RPM down some too.
Envy you your flying site...
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AJ Sun (01-04-2024)
03-23-2015, 05:13 PM
#9
Yes it is a Fox 35 stunt Anniversary engine. I bought the engine for a Ringmaster but I couldn't get it to run when I would do H 8,s it would quit going up the back side. I learned that engine doesn't like being on its side. Now I hope to try working on more pattern maneuvers.
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AJ Sun (01-14-2024)
03-25-2015, 07:16 AM
#10
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Nice work on the chief, I hope to build another myself someday, last time was in the 60's. The Fox does not like the side mount. I have found a chicken hopper tank normally works though.
03-26-2015, 01:48 PM
#11
Joe,
I replied to yours of the 23d on the redirect to my email. Thought others might use the info - thus,,,
The Fox 35 Stunt engine has a quirk about running right when mounted sidewinder, as on a profile. With a usually 1" tall metal fuel tank, the center of the tank's height should be about 1/4" above the shaft centerline. Individual engines differ; it may take a bit of fine-tweaking up or down to get the in-flight run equal upright and inverted, and in inside and outside maneuvers.
Set up "in-line," instead, the engine will go richer when inverted or in negative g's. That indicates that the tank is " too high" when the model is in negative g conditions; fuel is feeding "downhill" to the needle valve jet. Gravity feed, IOW. This also means that the tank is too low for when the model is upright - the engine has to draw fuel "uphill" to the spraybar jet. Setting it richer to draw enough fuel makes the reversal to 'gravity' feed even worse.
Raising the tank that 1/4" (or so) just about balances the "feed" tendencies.
In days of old, we ran the engines harder. More RPM helped provide more fuel draw, and the tanks were all "open vented" - two vent tubes so that one was open to dry space inside the tank whichever side of the model was up. With that venting the engine ran progressively leaner as the fuel ran down, and there was considerable spray out the vent tubes from siphoning out the 'wet' vent.
Today, uniflo venting is popular. Set up right, the run is very consistent down to the final bubbles before empty. The only problem with uniflo is that it is more sensitive to tank height. When it is right, it is great, though. It has only one working vent tube, which usually ends inside the tank at half the height of the shell. An overflow tube allows filling the tank, and it is capped before flight.
That open end, where vent air enters the shell, becomes in effect, the liquid 'surface height' relative to the spraybar jet. It doesn't change height. In the over/under two tube venting, the fuel 'surface height' changes from the inboard wall of the tank to the outboard wall as fuel burns off. Usually a distance of about 2". The centrifugal load on the fuel - around 3g for most CL sport models - makes the effective height change several times larger. Think how the engine would react on the bench if you raised and lowered the tank 5 or 6 inches each way...
With uniflo, the height change is only the distance - spanwise - from the vent tube end to the fuel pickup tube end inside the tank. Both are usually soldered alongside each other at the same height inside the tank, near the back of the wedge. This allows us to tune a leaner takeoff run - more useful power - that won't go overlean at the end of the tank. It allows setting that rumble and scream 4-cycle/2-cycle run so many like. It screams into 2-cycle when maneuvering drag loads force the change. AND with uniflo, it usually drops back to 4-cycling as soon as the loads end.
Control line uses such simple machinery, which also means that if you don't get something simple just right, you got trouble... Part of why we enjoy it??
I replied to yours of the 23d on the redirect to my email. Thought others might use the info - thus,,,
The Fox 35 Stunt engine has a quirk about running right when mounted sidewinder, as on a profile. With a usually 1" tall metal fuel tank, the center of the tank's height should be about 1/4" above the shaft centerline. Individual engines differ; it may take a bit of fine-tweaking up or down to get the in-flight run equal upright and inverted, and in inside and outside maneuvers.
Set up "in-line," instead, the engine will go richer when inverted or in negative g's. That indicates that the tank is " too high" when the model is in negative g conditions; fuel is feeding "downhill" to the needle valve jet. Gravity feed, IOW. This also means that the tank is too low for when the model is upright - the engine has to draw fuel "uphill" to the spraybar jet. Setting it richer to draw enough fuel makes the reversal to 'gravity' feed even worse.
Raising the tank that 1/4" (or so) just about balances the "feed" tendencies.
In days of old, we ran the engines harder. More RPM helped provide more fuel draw, and the tanks were all "open vented" - two vent tubes so that one was open to dry space inside the tank whichever side of the model was up. With that venting the engine ran progressively leaner as the fuel ran down, and there was considerable spray out the vent tubes from siphoning out the 'wet' vent.
Today, uniflo venting is popular. Set up right, the run is very consistent down to the final bubbles before empty. The only problem with uniflo is that it is more sensitive to tank height. When it is right, it is great, though. It has only one working vent tube, which usually ends inside the tank at half the height of the shell. An overflow tube allows filling the tank, and it is capped before flight.
That open end, where vent air enters the shell, becomes in effect, the liquid 'surface height' relative to the spraybar jet. It doesn't change height. In the over/under two tube venting, the fuel 'surface height' changes from the inboard wall of the tank to the outboard wall as fuel burns off. Usually a distance of about 2". The centrifugal load on the fuel - around 3g for most CL sport models - makes the effective height change several times larger. Think how the engine would react on the bench if you raised and lowered the tank 5 or 6 inches each way...
With uniflo, the height change is only the distance - spanwise - from the vent tube end to the fuel pickup tube end inside the tank. Both are usually soldered alongside each other at the same height inside the tank, near the back of the wedge. This allows us to tune a leaner takeoff run - more useful power - that won't go overlean at the end of the tank. It allows setting that rumble and scream 4-cycle/2-cycle run so many like. It screams into 2-cycle when maneuvering drag loads force the change. AND with uniflo, it usually drops back to 4-cycling as soon as the loads end.
Control line uses such simple machinery, which also means that if you don't get something simple just right, you got trouble... Part of why we enjoy it??
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Joe Fisher (10-10-2023)
03-29-2015, 05:02 AM
#12
I am 77.
So I did build a Veco Chief at age 14 ? I only had a McCoy red head 35 at the time & a double edged razor blade to cut out any stuck parts. Lots of red dye on the plane. I to reduced weight. I only used the side planks of the body.
Never had flown anything before this first plane. Screaming take off in a 12" roll up & doing a 6 ' diameter roll . Yank down then up. That way forever. ALL over the place for almost a full tank load of fuel. Rough landing. GREAT OLD DAYS !
So I did build a Veco Chief at age 14 ? I only had a McCoy red head 35 at the time & a double edged razor blade to cut out any stuck parts. Lots of red dye on the plane. I to reduced weight. I only used the side planks of the body.
Never had flown anything before this first plane. Screaming take off in a 12" roll up & doing a 6 ' diameter roll . Yank down then up. That way forever. ALL over the place for almost a full tank load of fuel. Rough landing. GREAT OLD DAYS !
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10-10-2023, 05:34 PM
#13
Senior Member
Old post butI sure enjoyed reading it. I’ve just finished my Chief. And I’ve been flying myWorrier smaller fox 19 can get the 4 2 4 brake. Like I got on my35 Fox stunt has the small wood block in the pass over. Running a 11/6 on my Chief and 9-2 on my 19 regular Square Veco tank my 6 Oz and 8 Oz let it sit about a minute get a 4.5/.6 flight notmuch on the AMA pattern just fun flying, my next build is a Flying fool treedle design its bugger than the old fly fool 40 OS got another Chief and Warrior kit and Was given a ARF Nobler. went Crazy and started looking for a green box Nobler. I ended up getting the Brodak version. Maybe some day I will find that green box original noblerAJ.
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Joe Fisher (10-10-2023)
10-13-2023, 01:19 PM
#14
Senior Member
Trying to find a steady flying circle. Got run off at the JH base ball diamond. Called the city found out they only work a four day week. Monday thru Thursday.but-get the same pay. Inquired about a flying circle so much land. The city built a skate board park spent big bucks for that all concrete. An area big area nice grass is adjoining that park. Nice place to fly!
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Joe Fisher (10-13-2023)
01-04-2024, 04:43 PM
#15
Senior Member
Well reread this Chief thing and I did it Again! Yep bought a Chief kit. Guys in Kansas City. I think I got a good deal, my current flyer is getting a little tired. It’s Old. But Its been a great flyer. Last flight I only loaded two and a half ounces of fuel. About a three minute flight counting my thirty second warm up. Stuge, launch. Not as fast as I use to be. Great reading this old post. Really learning a lot of new stuff. AJ
01-04-2024, 04:59 PM
#16
Senior Member
Hey Joe out of Kansas like your scratch plan build. That comment about bending Balsa, I use Distilled water and ammonia. Fifty fifty, takes about five minutes warmer the better. You leave it too long it may splinter Don’t Spray the mixture brush it on. All my Veco kits that’s how I form the upper deck.AJ
01-12-2024, 01:25 PM
#17
Senior Member
Well seen something I could not refuse. A Chief Original Veco Kit. Not Dumas.Brand new old stock. I think I made a very good deal, 10 wood top flight wood Props 2 each pitch starting At-4 all new never mounted and 75.0 bucks and I don’t mean deer. Still got several 10s and 11s all pitches, several are used and all makes. Guess I am a prop nut. I’ve been called worst. My thought? Well my flying Veco Chief has seen better days. Don’t get me wrong it’s a great flyer. But she was doing a 6 maybe 7 second circle. Nice for an 77 YO and it’s probably about right at its weight. Several repairs and they just add weight. Maybe fourty ounces now maybe a little more. Can’t really fly her in a good headwind, maybe 10 mph. Even slow in a tail wind. Has a Fox Stunt 35 inverted mount. I can tell it’s getting a little tired also. And so it goes in 24! AJ.
01-15-2024, 06:23 PM
#18
The 1/8” doubled is plenty… That is what was called for on the original Veco Brave, which I have resurrected in a short kit form.
01-15-2024, 06:38 PM
#19
I would imagine the original Veco Chief will be similar when I get around to drawing and cutting one
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AJ Sun (01-16-2024)
01-16-2024, 06:45 AM
#20
Senior Member
Hey guys great post, been dealing with a serious cold front. So I've been honckered down trying to stay warm, so It goes in 24. Your mods sound great on the ShoeString. AJ
02-11-2024, 02:15 PM
#21
Senior Member
Well I finally got to look at the Original Veco Chief I bought. Kinda looks like somebody started the build. And started cutting out parts. I was told it came out of an estate sale. But not started as far as he could tell. It had black three inch wood wheels. And maybe a three inch perfect bell crank. I was thinking my original Chief came with the Veco Bell Crank. Also the landing gear straps I guess they walked away. They are easy to made out of thin steel or K&S copper or brass. Not a biggie. Still glad I got it, even with the short falls.AJ
03-06-2024, 01:02 PM
#23
Senior Member
Okay I will have to.look I built my Chief a long time ago. If I recall it was just a few illustrations and several additions on how to do things. It was a pop off from a guy in Pennsylvainis that got the dies and illustrations from Dumas. Mightbe wrong but let me check. AJ
