DoubleUgly

OK Kids I am new to the C/L world (been in it for 2 months) and started with the "trainer" 1/2A Baby Lightning Streak. Can anyone explain to me why she without fail always comes in towards the pilot and crashes every time. The last time breaking the engine a black widow clean off and essentially ruining the plane. This is more than frustrating. I built the kit per specs and had the 1/4 oz weight in the outboard wing. She had both rudder and engine off set to pull outside and the lines where as per spec 35 ft. long. The hand launch was from about 5 feet up lines tight and thrown like a dart straight ahead. All she simply did was bank in towads me (the pilot....guy holding the handle sence it did not fly) and then corkscrewed right into the ground. I am now building a Jr. Lightning Streak but I am not too modivated right now due to the ZERO flight time I have had with C/L planes. Can anyone tell me what I am doing wrong???? Thanks

D.

catdaddy2

Are you launching from downwind? Never takeoff into the wind with a 1/2a CL plane.
Wind should be at your back. Have you tried ROG? If so, was it the same results?

Bigiron13

Several questions here. Where are you launching the plane in relation to the wind? What type of lines? Dacron or steel and what diameter if they are steel? What prop and is the engine putting out plenty of power? (it should be able to almost pull the plane straight up ).
You should not throw the plane like a dart. The launcher should hold the plane out in front of him with the left hand. Hand grasping the plane from the top , by the fuselage at the point above the wing spar(about the cockpit area) and then taking a step forward, push the plane forward and in a slight nose up position (not much nose high as too much will cause the plane to turn in) At the time the the launcher releases the plane, the pilot should lead the plane with the handle much like swinging a rock on a string (this is called whipping) to help accelerate the plane up to speed. Give no up control at the launch and only minor control changes immediately after launch (to correct climbing or diving) You should be approximately 30 degrees to the right side of downwind when the plane is released (tail slightly into the wind) so that by the time the plane comes into the wind it will have enough speed to have some pull on the lines and the rudder to be effective. Check the engine and BE SURE THAT IT HAS SOME OFFSET (OUT THRUST) toward the outside of the circle (this aids in keeping the lines tight during launch).
The nose breaking off the Streak should be fairly easy to repair. At least you can build a new Fuselage for the wing and tail to fit on.

OH yes, one last thing-- Be sure that the balance point is at least where the plans and instructions say it should be. If the plane is tail heavy, it will not fly well. You might even balance it about 1/4 to 1/2 inch forward of the plan location until you get used to flying the plane around.

Bigiron

DoubleUgly

Well lets see The launch sounds like it was a bit botched. The wind was L & V so it really was not a factor. I did have it launched with the predomiate wind at its 6.
The engine was trimmed out and the prop was a nylon 5.5 X 3 masterairscrew which is no more. It had pleanty of pull but I never got any positive feed back on the control lines. The lines where steel and the .015 X 35ft. I did not have gear on the plane as it is easier to find a grass field to fly in rather than a parking lot . Plus grass is a bit more forgiving than AS or concrete. I did try to back up a bit and pull the plane as it faultered but it was not enough she augered in anyway. Perhaps I should put the gear on her and round file the whole hand launch idea anyway. Is there anyway to fly CL by yourself it is a bit of pain to find someone to help me. Thanks for all of your help It is kinda of hard to figure out what happened not seeing it happen. I can only attribute it to inexpericance. Thanks Gentalmen

D.

ZAGNUT

My Feedback: (1)

i'm not really an expert on c/l but i think the .015 lines are much too heavy for 1/2A. i use .008 lines and have no probs.

i fly alone and have came up with a system that works pretty good and is real simple. into the ground i stake a small piece of u channel that's drilled for a wire pin. the pin goes through the ears in the channel and a loop in the tail skid wire. when i'm ready to go i just pull a long string thats tied to the pin.

i'm sure there's some ready made contraption for flying alone but i'm happy with my system.

dave

Bigiron13

Even .012 lines would be much better than the 015s. Remember, the plane is trying to accelerate while the lines are trying to remain at rest. Check your CG and engine offset.
Bigiron

DoubleUgly

Thanks Gentalmen I shall have to effect those changes and try again. I will look for the small Dia. Wire what do you guys think of the non steel lines they are much cheaper and do not "kink-up" like there steel counterparts. Its called Tufstrand synthetic control line cable and is meant to be liter than steel too.

Bigiron13

The "tuf-strand is much too draggy. Go to the hobby shop and get two spools of Dacron 1/2 A line. They have 52 feet each so you will have to cut 35 feet off each spool. A product called spider wire is also good and can be bought at the sporting goods department of Wal-Mart.
Bigiron

gcb

D.
I have not tried Tufstrand but from previous internet discussions that is for .35 and above sized planes.
You could use about 20# Spyderwire fishing line or an equivalent brand or the Dacron line found at most hobby shops. The .008 steel wire usually gives better response with less drag.
You have a double problem with the .015 lines. First is way excessive drag and the other is excessive weight. Steel .015 lines are used for a plane with up to a .40 engine (but about twice as long...60 or 70ft).
Steel lines (esp. .008) need much care when using them to avoid kinks (sharp bends). With so much to learn at first, I would suggest Spyderwire until you have some flights under your belt.
What size engine will you use in the Jr. Lightning Streak?
If possible, find some flyers in your area that can provide help. Most are always willing to help a new flyer.
Good luck,
George

DoubleUgly

I was looking to put an Enya 19 on it as I had one from a friend who has been flying for many a year but there is a lot of end play in the prop shaft so I may go with a OS LA .15. Now I understand why I had to make my own lines in size .015 as I could not find them the 35ft length. Its the obious things that get by ya sometimes.

Once I get the Baby Lightning patched up and re-covered with some skyloft rather than lite silkspan that came with the kit I will have to make a pillgamage up to the AMA headquarters in Muncie, IN and see if I can't get some more 1/2A pearls of wisdom. Thank you all very much who have answered my questions; now I do not feel so bad. I though my plane was at fault but it was a simple weight and drag problem with the wires.

Bigiron13

Double, Something that you just said has flagged me to another possibility.
WARPS!! Block the tail of the plane up so that you can stand back about 10 to 15 feet behind the plane and look at the trailing edge and see if it is parallel with the top spar. Or does it appear to droop out toward the tip or slant upwards. It should be parallel with the spars when viewed from the rear. A warp down in the trailing edge of the outboard wing will DEFINITELY cause what you are experiencing. Likewise a warp upward on the inboard wing will cause the same thing but usually not as pronounced as one in the OB wing. Take a look and see if you have a warp.
Bigiron

Clean

For video of launches and plans to a tough little trainer, go to www.aeromaniacs.com and look at the platter. You can learn the basic principles with this ship, then move to the streak and then move on up.

DoubleUgly

No warps in the baby lightning Bigiron13 I did have a flightstreak that was like that but I am still working on getting that airframe straight. The lightning Streak is as straight as it can be.

gcb

D. Do you mean front to back play or up and down? If it's front to back it may have been caused by using an electric starter. I would suggest bench-running the engine and see if it leaks badly out the front of the shaft. It may be OK.

D. It's been so long since I moved from Lexington that I don't remember where Erlanger is located...just remember the name.
There are CL flyers in Lexington, Louisville, and Bardstown that I know of. Probably lots of others. Perhaps your nearest hobby shop could put you in touch. Another source would be to search the AMA (Academy of Model Aeronautics) web site for the club nearest you.
Another possibility would be a book titled, "Building and Flying Control Line Model Aircraft" by Dick Sarpolus. Also there are a couple of Videos on building and flying 1/2 A (.049) models.
Keep us posted with your progress.

George

kdheath

If you have the Brodak Baby LS, that @$^*%$$# plastic motor mount is just a guillotine to the fuselage. After two fuselages, I built a new nose with plywood and balsa blocks. Much better. Ours is covered with Jap tissue and Brodak dope. It goes like stink when the Black Widow comes on.

The lines were a lot of your trouble-too much to haul. I'd like to do a Baby Flight Streak with a TeeDee 051 and bladder tank. Steel .008 lines-about 38 feet. Zippee!

gcb

kdheath,
I've had that same mount problem with a Brodak Basic Trainer I use to teach kids to fly. I thought it was just the fuselage wood. I think I'll opt to inlay a couple of 1/4" sq. strips of spruce or pine into the fuselage to spread the stress.

George

galaxyob1

Don't give up.

It's taken me 36 years to do my first loop - long time gap in between. Most people I've talked to say stay away from the 049's they’re fast and you don't have much time to react, but there are fun and affordable. My most resent success getting back into this hobby was with a Sterling Mustang with a Texaco 49 and a Goldberg Wizard with black widow. My 10 and 12 year old took to the mustang very quickly, it was very slow but gave them confidence. The wizard flew much faster and could even do a wingover. The Brodak 49's fly much better - faster and glide the others were solid profile balsa and dropped quick. I've built three Brodak'49 in the past year the baby lighting streak, mustang and cosmic wind. Each of these planes flies differently. The bls flew great first time out; I use 52' dacron line cut in half, so you have 26' line. Yeah it's quick but you can hold good line tension, do wingovers and I eventually got an inside loop. I did crash and did repair. I had problems with the cosmic wind --could not hold line tension, the plan flew like it was tail heavy, after I made it some weight adjustments it still flew poorly, an old flyer recommended more engine angle so I added more wedge to the left side of the engine. It flies ok but the engine is not a quick black widow (rebuilt). The mustang has the bls engine and flies pretty good. Suggest you get shorter lines, hand take off is a talent learned as some have answered. I use an old carpet 4x10' turn over for a runway also a board of cardboard will work. The planes take off in less than 8'. If you can hold line tension try the more wedge.

I just start flying FOX 35’s after going to Brodak’s flyinn 2003. I don’t know how the lightening streak flies but after building and flying a Galaxy, I got a Twister and the flite streak with OS 25. The twister is a real good trainer, slow and steady. It loops inside and out, does wingovers with ease and grace. The galaxy and flite streak can do the same but the controls are very sensitive and the planes are fast. I’m rebuilding the flite steak and twister, lost focus on an inside loop and lost fuel due to clogged filter on an overhead. Both boys have flown the flite streak but they said it was to quick, they are still with the mustang and cosmic wind.

Good Luck

Jim Thomerson

Bigiron's advice is excellent. Read it carefully. Actually with a reasonable Black Widow and a 1/2A Lightening Streak, all you have to do is have the launcher on the downwind side of the circle, and the launcher simply drops the airplane with the lines tight and the nose pointed a litle up. It is very easy, when throwing the airplane, to actually throw it into the circle with the result you have seen.

Jim

DoubleUgly

Well I put the gear on the lightning so no more hand launching for me. I am going to try and get her up in the air next weeeknd with my father's help. I am looking forward to my first flight and hope to at least get in a wingover and loop. Thanks again for all of your help gentalmen. The information has been really helpful and timely.

D.

wacachu2

One note of caution about flying by yourself. If you should have an accident (plane turns in and hits you, get cut badly by a prop or fuel in your eyes) there will be nobody to help you. Besides flying is more fun with a friend.

propjobbill

There are a number of thing to help keep your plane from comming in on you. First and most important you should always have a weight in the tip of your outer wing say 1/2 ounce for 1/2A and maybe up to 1 ounce for a .35 size engineso the weight and drag of your lines doesn't cause it to turn in on you. You can also offset the engine by about 2 or 3 degrees to the outside of your circle. You can also ofset the rudder to the outside of the flying circle by 15% =20% that will also keep the plane flying away from you

propjobbill

Don't be afraid to ad more weight to the outer tip. I have seen plane wit a warp in the wings extra weight wont cause you problems as long as it's not way to much. the worse thing about extra weight is the plane won't fly as nice. I have flown a 1/2a with 1 ounce in the outer tip. the weight and drag of the lines causes it to come and engine tourge will ad tothe problem. 1/4 ounce is enough if everything is perfect. But it sounds to me like more weight will solve the problem. Try taping it on temporary to check it out. Duct tape might work.

DPappas

Hello there,
I wish you luck. The dacron lines are fine for starting out, and most forgiving of mishanding.
The Tufstrand is way to draggy: don't use it for anything.
Also remember to take that "whipping step' backward, as well.
Take care,
Dean Pappas

DoubleUgly

Thanks for all of your info and well wishes guys I have yet to get it any controll line AC in the air yet with both work and the weather working against me I have a completed 1/2A and a completed Jr. Lightning Streak and Zero flight time. I hope that this season proves to be better than last but hey I can only go up as I did not go up at all. LOL

Again thank you all for your wealth of knowledge and tips.

msulka

couple of dumb points. sorry I did not read each and every reply. the big thing I am wondering is: Is the rudder really set right? back of it must be to the outside of the circle if it is bent, and the flat side out for an airfoiled type. I know it seems obvious, but from the descriptions, something is bad wrong. Of course, the weight of the way too heavy lines could cause the same thing. get the little plastic handle and string.....I think it is dacron. that steel at 012 sounds like .15 to .25 size to me, but it has been many years since i did the CL thing...(but I still got a VooDoo hanging on a wall somewhere!)

ms