stijn

Hello Everyone

I've read some posts here where some people think CL is something from the past and RC is the way to go. I fly Free Flight, and just like things from the past. I have no opinion on CL, so I thought why not give it a try.

I have a question though. I found an old Super Tigre G20 CL engine in a very good condition but without a muffler. Where can I find a muffler for this engine? Or can I use a modern muffler on this one?

Thanks a lot in advance

Stijn

Ps. English is not my native language, so if you see mistakes, please forgive me herefore.

gcb

Stijn,
The G20 designation is a series number and the engines ranged (as far as I know) from .15 up. What size is it?
You may have to go to a strap-on muffler. I don't think those engines can handle a lot of back pressure, you may have to use a tongue muffler. I have not used mufflers with my G20 engines (.15, 23, 35 sizes).
Hopefully, someone will chime in who HAS used a muffler with them and will make recommendations.

George

stijn

Hello GCB

It is a 2,5 cc engine, so a .15 I think. I know that the previous owner (my dad) used it without a muffler, but some RC friends told me that I must use a muffler to reduce noise. In my FF models I don't use mufflers because they run for only a few seconds. But in CL, I don't know.

Hopefully I will sort out this issue soon so I can start to build something and enjoy getting dizzy too.

Jim Thomerson

My G20-15's mostly have two holes for bolts to hold a muffler on. These are on the centerline of the cylinder in front of, and in back of, the exhaust stack. I suspect there is a commercial muffler which will fit. If not someone can make you a tongue muffler.

Jim

Clean

Depends on the field that you're flying on. My local field has no noise restrictions. Also in CL as opposed to RC, you should realise that your model will never be over 60 feet from the ground. RC airplanes get a couple hundred feet up and broadcast the sound over a long range. If you mount profile you really have a sound reduction as the exhaust spends all it's time yelling at the ground, or straight up.

But if you are flying at the RC field and they have a muffler requirement, then you must use a muffler. It might be worth looking into one of the newer motors like the LA 15, 25, 46. They won't make quite as much power as your old SuperTigre, but they are designed to use the muffler, don't hardly vibrate and are Quite. Heck, you should just try and listen to my Banshee with the Tower 40 fp on the nose swinging a 11x5 at 9800 rpm. You can't hardly here it. My Snarling Foxes at 60 feet are a very comfortable level of noise, I kinda like it in the pits too, but on the inside of the circle it's just fine. So match the muffler requirement to the flying condition. Maybe invite one of the RC guys to come fly at a non muffled site, they might just be impressed with the lack of noise they'd expect.

gcb

stijn,
A lot depends on what you are looking for. For example, for a 2.5cc stunt you might consider the LA or a TT. For racing you might consider the MVVS 2.5 which comes in either diesel or glow (as did the G20-.15 (2.5cc). For diesel, you might also consider the PAW.
If you are intent on getting your Dad's engine in a plane, as Jim said, get someone to make you a tongue muffler (I forgot about the muffler ears on the crankcase). Before you invest a lot of money to get it set up you might want to bench run it and see if everything is OK. It may be hard to get parts, except perhaps bearings.
Good luck with it.

George

stijn

Hello everyone

Thanx already for the input. I'm learning to fly CL so a stunt or race plane is not wanted yet. I will be very happy to start the plane, fly a few laps and land it in one piece!

The field where I'm flying is not an RC field, it is just a field where I can fly with the permission of the owner. So if I am right a muffler is than not really necessary. But if someone can point out where I can find a muffler I will try it to install, but for the moment I will fly it without I think

You're maybe right to acquire a newer engine, but as I said I'm just trying to learn CL. Maybe I will love it and than I will buy something new, maybe I won't love it at all, and then I return to FF.

Stijn

cobra26

Stijn,

I think you will find that you like C/L flying. I started in C/L 49 years ago and went to R/C in the 1970's but I've never given up the C/L side of the hobby. There's something magical and nostalgic for me in it, plus I can fly on a much smaller field closer to my home than I can with R/C.

I presently fly a Veco Shark (bought on eBay a few years ago) with a Fox .45. I also fly a Fox .15 size Papoose and a Fox .35 powered Magician - and I love them all! (I guess you can tell I love those Fox engines!)

I'm starting up in Park Flyers now and am awaiting delivery of the GWS Slow Stik which looks and sounds like a lot of laid-back fun. One thing for sure though, I'll NEVER give up C/L! God luck and get prepared to be "hooked"!

Aeromite

stijn

Hello

I will see that in a few months!

Thanks for all the info

Stijn

BMatthews

There's no doubt that even if you are flying out in the boonies all on your own that a muffler makes for a more pleasant time.

For your Supertigre anything that can be adapted to fit will be fine. The simple mufflers from any of the .15 (2.5cc) to .25 (3 cc) will work well. Strapping it on may be another issue. It wouldn't be pretty but if the muffer can be set so it won't slip around you could even bind it on with a few wraps of wire around the muffler and engine. You should be carry the model around by the muffler with a few gentle shakes without it comeing off or slipping around. If it's not attached that well then the vibration will move it around for you.

Another option would be to find or make an exhaust manifold or header and do a mousse can muffler. Either buy a tuned pipe header or make one The mousse cans are light aluminium cans that hair stuff comes in. It's a little more work but I understand that the work well being light and can actually ADD a little power. BUT they sure are a big lump on the model. Here's a couple of sites that explain it more...

http://webpages.charter.net/rcfu/ConstGuide/MCM.html

http://www.spadtothebone.com/SPAD/Mufflers/

jessiej

[quote]ORIGINAL: BMatthews

Strapping it on may be another issue]

Hose clamps from the auto parts store work great. Cut the clamp and attach each of the cut ends to the stack of the muffler. You can drill and tap holes for this or use a nut and bolt. Now you simply slip it on the engine and tighten the clamp. Works fine and doesn't look bad either.[8D]

stijn

Hello Everyone

Thanks for all the valuable tips. Next week I start building my TA152.

Stijn

stijn

Hey everyone

I've go a few questions again.

My plan doesn't mention anything about side and downthrust. How many degrees would you use as a starting.

The tank that is used is a standard brass tank used in the 60s. I'm trying to replicate it, but is it possible to fly inverted with such a tank or should I make alternations to the tank as in a stunt plane?

Greetings

Stijn

gcb

Stijn,
I'm afraid I'm not familiar with the TA152 but in general, most CL planes do not use down thrust. Out (or side) thrust is used in some cases to ensure tension on the lines. Unless you are flying in windy conditions or are using excessively long lines anywhere from zero to five degrees should be good. Remember, you are automatically causing pull on the lines when the plane trys to go straight.
Another thing is the rudder position. When CL first started, most thought that rudder offset was needed to keep it out on the lines. In most cases rudder offset is not needed.
You might find that many use engine and rudder offset as insurance so if it it makes you feel better, by all means use it.

Tank: Unless you want to duplicate the old one, a modern plastic RC tank should work...if it fits. They can be plumbed for CL use.

Good luck with your TA152.

George

stijn

Hello gcb

You must know a lot about CL. The Focke Wulf TA152 is high altitude interceptor version of the FW190. the TA stands for its designer Kurt Tank. The plan that I've is from an old kit from the 50's, begin 60's.

On the plan there is no down or sidethrust visible. But I found that hard to believe. But now, maybe no mistake in plan! Can you give me some tips or website to convert a little RC tank for CL use? Is maybe easier than to make a brass one.

Thanks a lot for the info

Greetings

Stijn

Jim Thomerson

I take it you have not flown a CL airplane. If so, I would suggest you first build a simple trainer with a solid balsa wing. Take a look at the Brodak Flitestreak trainer. Go to their website, go to kits, then trainers. That will give you an idea of what you need. That airplane would work very well with your engine. If you would like, I can email you some pictures and dimensions of a trainer I have which several people have used to learn to fly. Your RC tank will work fine. just be sure you can put just a little fuel in it as you will get dizzy the first few times you fly.

Jim

gcb

Stijn,
Jim is giving you good advice. Assuming your plane is a scale or semi-scale plane, you should learn to fly on a simpler plane. Keep the scale one as the second CL plane you fly.
If there are other CL flyers near you perhaps one of them has a trainer you can learn to fly on.

George