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  1. #1

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    McCoy redhead stunt engines

    Ok, the T/M redheads have been hashed and rehashed many times but I have an idea.

    Since many guys still love this old engine, too bad someone like MECOA doesn't think about making new Modern Piston/Cylinder combos so we can get these old turkeys running again.

    When they ran they were great but unless you used Fox Superfuel or some other high-oil content fuel...the guts would soon go away.

    The reason I suggest MECOA is they already have ownership of the newer Heavy-Case blackhead line of Testors engines. They were too heavy and never gained the following of the older redhead line.

    Should we bombard Randy with letters about this. I'd love to have a T/M with internals harder than butter.

    If MECOA were to do these parts, I would also suggest gasket and screw sets and venturi inserts for converting the RC blueheads to stunt as well.

    Over...............

  2. #2

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    RE: McCoy redhead stunt engines

    Dan:

    You are partially correct. There are some masochists that still torture themselves with that poor excuse for an engine.

    But supplying new P/L sets wouldn't be economically sound - there wouldn't be enough market for it. Further, the crank ran in the plain aluminum of the case, and the case wore almost as fast as the P/L did. And the con rod was just a little better than a folded up beer can.

    The only part that didn't wear out as soon as you started the engine was the crankshaft, if there had been a harder bush in the case or a stronger con rod the crank probably would have gone too.

    In other words, why bother with new parts for a dead horse? Even the OS LA series is better than the old T/M Red Head engines. And for me to say anything is worse than an LA is really going some.

    Bill.
    Real Airplanes have Two Engines
    AMA 25139 - More than 40 years.

  3. #3

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    RE: McCoy redhead stunt engines

    William,

    Not sure where you got your info but let me set this record straight.

    1. All the McCoy Red Head engines had a crank bushing, some iron, some bronze, all wore very well.
    2. The crankshaft itself was very robust and a direct swap out with the Torp .35 GH and was used to improve that engine which had a habit of breaking cranks.
    3. The conrod was also substantial and lived a good service life.

    The problems with this engine were not of a design nature. In fact the late George Aldrich was of the strong opinion that the Red Head "design" was superior to the Fox as a stunt engine. In fact he did what Dan has suggested, the engines were called McGas. Granted they were .40s, but the design was basically the same. The failing with this engine was Testor's poor or lack of quality control. The last Red Head .40s were great engines but too late. The .19, .29 & .35 RH's were all soundly designed but built to varying degrees of quality. A good one is a real keeper and there are guys around that will agree whole heartedly. Some wouldn't run at all though I never got one that wouldn't.

    I like the Macs, a sweet one is really sweet, and a mediocre one is still very useable.
    Randy Ryan
    AMA 8500, SAM 36, BO all my own M\'s

  4. #4

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    RE: McCoy redhead stunt engines

    Randy:

    I have heard from others about good experiences with these engines. Sorry, my memory does not show any bush on the crank.

    I never broke a crank in any K&B engine, but I (and others) had many Fox crank failures. Were you thinking about Fox maybe?

    When I was based at Sheppard AFB, near Wichita Falls, Texas, we'd blow $10 on a gallon of fuel and a Red Head 35. Strap the engine on the same old plane, fly the weekend, next week more fuel and another Mac 35. Sometimes, I'll admit, the T/McCoy would outlast the first gallon.

    "Hey Bill, did you get your stuff for this weekend?"

    "Well, I got the engine but they were out of fuel."

    Bill.
    Real Airplanes have Two Engines
    AMA 25139 - More than 40 years.

  5. #5

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    RE: McCoy redhead stunt engines

    I have two of the lightning bolt dull case .19's one CL and one RC..both have a bronze bushing. I'm sure the .29, .35 and .40 did too because the entire line received upgrades at the same time.

    I have three of the older shiny case .35's and two .19's and they appear to have an iron bearing. I'd have to disassemble to make sure.

    My only problem with the older shiny case .19 was that it kept blowing the fiber head gasket. After a while the screws got a little messed up and it was hard to tighten them. Today I would convert to socket head screws and an aluminum head gasket.

    I had a lot of fun with .19's flying them on Jr Satan and Flite Streak Jr. models. I used the K&B greenhead, Fox and Testors/McCoy engines. They all had good power.

  6. #6

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    RE: McCoy redhead stunt engines

    Nope, Green Head Torp. Used in Free Flight and Combat their cranks didn't live, Still a good engine though.
    Randy Ryan
    AMA 8500, SAM 36, BO all my own M\'s

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    RE: McCoy redhead stunt engines

    I flew a McCoy redhead 35 in OTS for several hundred flights with excellent service. I flew a McCoy redhead 19 for close to 1000 flights with no problem. I've seen one Fox 35 break the conrod, not the crank. Never had a problem myself with thousands of flights. I appreciate someone else getting all the bad ones. I heard somewhere there was a run of Greenhead 35's which had interference between the piston and the case, and that these were the ones which blew cranks.

    Jim

  8. #8

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    RE: McCoy redhead stunt engines

    Jim and all:

    Back on the T/M crank bush, might have been steel/iron, really I don't remember. But I'm glad someone got some good ones. None came to Sheppard AFB while I was there. These were the really early ones, possibly the later ones were better.

    Green Head K&Bs. I flew the 0.19 and the 0.29 in A and B c/l speed, never had a crank break. Cooked a few with a lean needle, though.

    Fox? Attached picture shows the bottom of a Fox case with a hole made when the crank broke. Second picture is the guts after disassembly.

    Bill.
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    Real Airplanes have Two Engines
    AMA 25139 - More than 40 years.

  9. #9

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    RE: McCoy redhead stunt engines

    Bill
    I had two of the 40s like yours that broke the shaft just like yours. In fact the broken crank pieces were almost interchangeable between the 2 cranks. I was using mine in rat racing on Missile Mist when they broke. I also lost more than one crank in a K&B 35 green head when trying to use them in a 100 mile rat race. I again was using Fox Missile Mist fuel back then. All my shaft problems went away when I switched to the K&B 40 series 64 rear rotor.
    Mr. Motor A K A Paul

  10. #10

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    RE: McCoy redhead stunt engines

    Here is a pic of a Blackhead .19. Don't think I've ever run it...just oil it up once in awhile.
    I have another in my shop that has been run. I bought it used and put an OS needle in it. The original needle assembly was missing.
    As you say, not all Red Heads were bad fits. I have two of the older ones that both have good fits. I believe GMA also said that one downfall of the Red Heads was using fuel with insufficient oil content - Testors 39 was a prime example. IMHO when you run the pee-waddle out of a sport engine, you shouldn't expect it to last.

    George
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  11. #11

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    RE: McCoy redhead stunt engines

    George,

    I never did get that model. Sure is a rugged looking engine.

    Do you remember Francisco "Powermist" fuel?

    We had a bunch of control line guys flying at our local high school back in the mid-50's and the choice of fuels was awesome.

    Francisco, McCoy, OK Cub, O&R, Testors-39, K&B 100, 500 & 1000, Cox, Pactra "Power Fuel" and a many others.

    Wonder if anyone has a collection of all the different brands.

    Can anyone remember all the different brands?

  12. #12

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    RE: McCoy redhead stunt engines

    Dan:

    Who was it that called theirs "Superfuel?" And mentioned in an earlier post was "Missile Mist." Oh, right. MM and Superfuel were both from Fox.

    And let's not forget the other exotics. Francisco did package some "Hot" fuels, but Francisco's hottest paled to insignificance when compared to "Franny's" and "This is It."

    Bill.
    Real Airplanes have Two Engines
    AMA 25139 - More than 40 years.

  13. #13

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    RE: McCoy redhead stunt engines

    I think the hottest Francisco made was the "Blue Blazer" racing fuel wasn't it? I think it had nitro benzine in it for awhile.

    George

  14. #14

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    RE: McCoy redhead stunt engines

    We were just flying sport, stunt, scale and early (heavy) combat types with normal K&B, Fox, O&R, McCoy and whatever. None of us had a Dooling.

    Profiles were popular because they were cheap to buy and didn't take long to build.

    Later on I did come up with a couple of McCoy .29 redhead RRV and .19RRV engines but they weren't something we normally flew.

    The Powermist worked fine for our models. Most of the fuels had N/B if I remember correctly. It would eliminate high RPM "Crackle." I always loved the smell of glo-fuel in the morning.

  15. #15

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    RE: McCoy redhead stunt engines

    Bill,
    I never tried "Frannys" nor "This Is It", but I remember those names. Wasn't Franny also the chrome specialist?

    Dan,
    I flew sport also and used whatever fuel was in the LHS at the time. I've used all the fuels you listed except perhaps some covered under "many others".
    I don't remember ever trying "Lee" fuel. I THINK that was formulated by P.D.F. Chinn and sold by SIG (unless I have it confused with another).
    The third fuel I think was made by Francisco was "Nitro-X". I used a bit of that.

    I had a Dooling .29 back in the late 1950's. Bought it used, never had it in a ship, sold it. I have one now but it is just parts in a box. Guess I need to send for a set of rings.

    George

  16. #16

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    RE: McCoy redhead stunt engines

    George:

    Franny was the C.F. Lee and George Aldrich of the 50s, for speed fliers, at least. If you were flying "C" speed, there were McCoy 60s, and then there were "Franny's McCoys." As I remember he also supplied chromed cylinder sleeves for the McCoy engines. The Red Head 29 I still have has a Franny's lapped fit piston and liner in it. Not chrome, though. It was a "Trick" replacement for the original ringed piston set.

    By 1960 the Doolings weren't competitive either in B or C speed. The McCoys still owned C, in B the Mac Red Head 29s were second to the K&B Greenies, the SuperTigre 29s did well, and Duke Fox swore his 29R was the hottest of the lot. And that was just more of Ol' Dukes BS. The Fox 29R (the "Bathtub" engine) might have won a backwater contest somewhere, but nothing else.

    When Duke replaced the 29R with the 29X things changed. The X was a winner when you got it loose enough, but when you got it loose enough it was only good for eight or ten flights before it was too loose. A winner, temporarily, but still a POS. Had to buy five or six just to make it through one season.

    The Dooling 29 was a beautiful piece of work. On a bet I bought one and put it on a rat racer. Right. Bladder tank and all. And I won the race I set it up for. It really wasn't that the Dooling and I were all that fast, I had consistent speed and fast pitting, honorable loser didn't have his engine sorted and his restarts were slow.

    Back on Franny for a moment. I thought his slickest trick was putting both the McCoy 60's piston rings in one groove. What he did was make new rings 1/2 as thick as the originals. That way he had the surface area of a single ring, and by spacing the gaps the ring pressure could be a lot lower and seal better than the original two in separate grooves. Slick.

    That's enough rambling for now.

    Bill.
    Real Airplanes have Two Engines
    AMA 25139 - More than 40 years.

  17. #17

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    RE: McCoy redhead stunt engines

    ORIGINAL: William Robison

    George:

    Franny was the C.F. Lee and George Aldrich of the 50s, for speed fliers, at least. If you were flying "C" speed, there were McCoy 60s, and then there were "Franny's McCoys." As I remember he also supplied chromed cylinder sleeves for the McCoy engines. The Red Head 29 I still have has a Franny's lapped fit piston and liner in it. Not chrome, though. It was a "Trick" replacement for the original ringed piston set.

    By 1960 the Doolings weren't competitive either in B or C speed. The McCoys still owned C, in B the Mac Red Head 29s were second to the K&B Greenies, the SuperTigre 29s did well, and Duke Fox swore his 29R was the hottest of the lot. And that was just more of Ol' Dukes BS. The Fox 29R (the "Bathtub" engine) might have won a backwater contest somewhere, but nothing else.

    When Duke replaced the 29R with the 29X things changed. The X was a winner when you got it loose enough, but when you got it loose enough it was only good for eight or ten flights before it was too loose. A winner, temporarily, but still a POS. Had to buy five or six just to make it through one season.

    The Dooling 29 was a beautiful piece of work. On a bet I bought one and put it on a rat racer. Right. Bladder tank and all. And I won the race I set it up for. It really wasn't that the Dooling and I were all that fast, I had consistent speed and fast pitting, honorable loser didn't have his engine sorted and his restarts were slow.

    Back on Franny for a moment. I thought his slickest trick was putting both the McCoy 60's piston rings in one groove. What he did was make new rings 1/2 as thick as the originals. That way he had the surface area of a single ring, and by spacing the gaps the ring pressure could be a lot lower and seal better than the original two in separate grooves. Slick.

    That's enough rambling for now.

    Bill.

    Actually Franny Wolfe is still alive and well and living in Readin,Pa. He is of course in his 80's and no longer involved in the hobby. Most forget that Franny was primarly involved in race car stuff having been involved in that from the 30's. He was a master at setting the Dooling 61 up to run. Also for a short time wrote for Model Builder.
    Hard to believe that he did his chroming in his basement and his 'hobby shop' was down there too. I bought one of my first diesels, a Mills .08[.045] in his basement.
    As to Fuel yes he made 'This is it,' Purple K[ we called it cat p*** or panther p*** take your pick,, and a few other highly volitile mixtures. Lots of nitro, tetra nitro ethane, when it was legal, till they found that it ate holes in your liver. Nitro Benzene was a better oxyginator then Nitro methane but of course they found out that it was carcinogenic and that was the end of it. But I really did love that shoe polish smell, a fond memory of my childhood.
    I go by his place every now and then on my way to the field.
    Dennis

  18. #18

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    RE: McCoy redhead stunt engines

    Had some frustration with McCoys. Had a few sucesses. Currently have what used to be a redhead .35 in a Veco Smoothie I buit back in 1969. Has flown with Fox and K&B .35s as well. My first RH 35 went on an old Veco warrior. Never got off the groun. Did get some good flights on a fox .19, though.

  19. #19

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    RE: McCoy redhead stunt engines

    Had both sucess and frustration with McCoy engines. Currently am using a RH 35 in a Veco Smoothie I built in 1969. Has also flown with Fox aand K&B. Third set of mounting beams, third recovering (Original doped Silron disintegrated about 12 years ago), had one of the original Veco wheels shed a tire in flite.
    Put my first RH 35 on a Veco Warrior, that wouldn't even taxi in grass. Flew quite well on Fox 19s and 35s, tho. Finally pitched a RH 049. Never ran. Even the old Wen Mac 049 I had eventually ran once. Both my first two red head 19s and 35s ($6.98 each) are somewhere in our local land fill.
    I currently have a small collection of pre red-head McCoy 19s, 29s and even an old 09. Saw an interesting article in I think a recent FM about restoring the old McCoy RH 35 by using Fox 35 cylinder and liners. Takes a little fitting.
    Actually, the Engine in the Smoothie is not really a red head any more. Back during the frenzy when all the engine columnists were talking about dropping castor, I made the mistake of trying an all synthetic fuel. By the time I got the engine shut off, the cylinder head was baked enamel black. Wrecked a perfectly useable Fox 59, too. As a result, i always add about 4 ro 6 ounces of Baker's castor to a new gallon of fuel before the first tankful. Synthetic will not hold up to the higher friction heating of a lapped steel piston/liner.
    I am currently trying to finish an Olympic I bought from an estate sale. Has a RH 35 in it.

  20. #20

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    RE: McCoy redhead stunt engines

    ORIGINAL: dennis
    ... Nitro Benzene was a better oxyginator then Nitro methane but of course they found out that it was carcinogenic and that was the end of it. But I really did love that shoe polish smell, a fond memory of my childhood.

    Dennis
    Remember "Blue Blazer"?

    50+
    The McCoy red heads were a good design (both RR racing and front intake). If I understand correctly, after the first run or so of red heads engine manufacturers got into a price war. During this time the manufacturers of McCoy had some people who were either not skilled or required to assemble too fast and the fits were not always there. Add to that, Testor's 39 and some of the other fuels had insufficient lubrication.
    Since McCoys were only about $7.00, many treated them badly; used them for a few weeks, then bought another.
    I think their next attempt to regain their reputation was the lightning bolt series where they added a bronze bushing on the crank, made some other improvements, and provided better tolerances...but not for $7.00.
    IMHO most of the RC fuels today are formulated for an ABC BB engine and contain insufficient quantity and type of lube to feed an iron/steel piston/cylinder setup. Although many iron/steel engines will run on 20%-22% lube, a McCoy red head or a Fox .35 should have 25%-29% all or mostly castor lube.
    For an OLD iron/steel engine, I would suggest ALL castor lube. A small percentage of synthetic will sometimes clean the varnish buildup (compression aid) from the iron piston. This buildup does not occur on ABC engines.
    Some are quite successful on other fuels but this works for me.

    George

    Edit: some of this was said previously. Apologies for duplication.

  21. #21
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    RE: McCoy redhead stunt engines

    Hello all. Reading about the old Redhead engines sure brings back memories. I recall building and flying both a Super Ringmaster and a Ringmaster using brand new Redhead 35's bought for $5.95 each. The Sterling Super Ringmaster was $4.95 and the Ringmaster was $3.50! I also remember that at the time, the McCoy Redhead 35 was only $1.00 more in price than the famous 1/2A Thimbledrone "Golden Bee" .049 which was priced at $4.95 while its cousin, the Thimbledrone "TeeDee" .049, was $3.49!! We bought the Testor's 39 (?) fuel for both the 1/2A's and the "big" .35's because it was the cheapest. Fox "Missile Mist" was half again as much, I think. Let's see, that was probably around 1960 when I was 13. Now at 57, I think I might just try to find an old unbuilt Ringmaster and a good Redhead 35 and try it again. Heck, I can even remember the control lines were .018 guage and 70 feet long! Maybe I'll be able to remember how to apply silkspan on the wings. Is it even manufactured any more or do I have to try the "monokote"? And is "Ambroid" (?) glue still being manufactured? Thanks for any replies.

    Ron Scott
    \"The Sailor Who Fell From Grace With The Sea...\"

  22. #22

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    RE: McCoy redhead stunt engines

    Ron,

    If you can't locate a Ringmaster you can buy the plans. There are two types, the S1 is the older one, the S1A is an updated version with "improvements". I would recommend the S1 in case you would like to try "Old Time Stunt". The S1 is eligible but the S1A is not.

    McCoy .35's can be found at swaps and on e*ay. If you decide to use a modern power plant, a .20 should be sufficient.

    Most people use .015 x about 60' lines with a .35. The .015's are OK up to and including a .40. Some vary length as needed.

    Silkspan is still available from SIG or Brodak Mfg. You can still apply it as you did back then. I apply it wet over a pre-doped structure. Some apply it dry.

    I still have a tube of Ambroid, but I read a post recently that said it is no longer made. Not sure if this is true. There are lots of adhesives available today.

    Considering the structure of the Ringmaster, I would recommend epoxy for joining the LE and TE halves, and the plywood reinforcements for the joints.

    I hope you give it another try, CL is STILL fun! Don't be afraid to ask questions. There is seldom only one way of doing things.

    George

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    RE: McCoy redhead stunt engines

    I just read another post the other day in which Ambroid is denying that they have changed their formula to meet EPA requirements. Sounds recent enough that the still are around. several LHS still seem to stock the tubes.

  24. #24

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    RE: McCoy redhead stunt engines

    I love the smell of Ambroid in the morning. (to paraphrase Robert Duvall)

    George

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    RE: McCoy redhead stunt engines

    Good morning all. Well, I won (!!?????) an Ebay auction for an S-1A Ringmaster for about thirty times the price of what we used to pay for the kits! It's still in original plastic wrapping (hav'nt rx'ed it yet) so I suppose everything will be in the box. If I can find a good Redhead 35 for the Ringmaster I'll build the darn thing anyway. Collecting for collecting's sake cost way too much for the twenty years or so I spent with scale plastic models. And I'm hoping to soon enjoy that "smell" of glo-fuel and the "pull" of the lines again! Glad to hear that Ambroid is still around. I'd sure like to do this like the old days, silkspan and all!

    Regards,
    Ron Scott
    \"The Sailor Who Fell From Grace With The Sea...\"


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