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  1. #26

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    RE: Rat Racing Plane kits

    All right, who remembers this, when a contest was further distant than the normal range limit for leaving at 3:00 AM? Fort Worth and Dallas were a longer drive away for us, so we would leave the evening before, then stop at the roadside park outside of town when we got to it, and sleep a few hours, sometimes on the car's roof, if there were three of us, and I'd drawn a short straw! We'd wake up at 6:00, find a place for breakfast, and then head for the contest site.

    Another modeler on a budget suggested that, and it was workable, but only if I had a baby-sitter to stay with my kids, after 1964 (when they were along, I had to call ahead to a member of the host club I knew, or at least had a phone number for, and arrange a place to throw down sleeping bags in his house . . ) remember that I was on a stretched budget throughout my more active contest-going years, and felt that motel rooms were a real luxury expense!

    Kiwi

    ***

  2. #27

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    RE: Rat Racing Plane kits

    David a/k/a SuperTiga,
    I did see Darrell at an RC Combat contest several years ago. I was amazed to run into him. He and George went on to Kart racing for a while and I went off to College. When we went to a contest we had 5-8 folks in a motel room. I remember in Longview all the modelers stayed at the same hotel and ate at the same Mexican restaurant. Some knuckle head was running his racing engine in the parking lot in the middle of the night. The room smelled of Ambroid, butyrate dope, and clothes soaked with castor oil. Greatest scents in the world.

    At the Dallas Nats, which was my first, we paid a dollar a night for a room in the barracks and 10 cents per meal in the mess hall. The movie theater cost 5 cents and the big hangar was filled with plywood work benches end to end and opened all day and night. What an experience for a kid!

    I was going through some old issues, from the late fifties and early sixties of Model Airplane News. Sterling had a contest to guess how many RingMasters had been made. First prize I think was the princely sum of $50. The answer was published in a later issue. It was over 287,000 kits. Can you imagine any kit of any model today selling at that rate?

    Two other folks who had a lot of impact on me were the speed team of Shelton & Harris out of Baton Rouge. We usually visited with them at contests and got to meet the a lot of other fliers: Larry and Lany Grogan, Phil Bussell, Dub Jett, the team of Husted & Roy, and others. Do you remember the sounds of a Dyna Jet? They would be outlawed today as noise hazards.
    Waco Brotherhood Member #110

  3. #28

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    RE: Rat Racing Plane kits

    Guys

    Yes!
    When young would sleep anywhere and eat anything to compete!
    Mosquitoes, dirt ,sand and all that good stuff!!

    Lou
    Darrel had a stroke about a month ago.
    Has 2 large aneurysm in brain. He is up and about and going to work.
    This or next week they are going in to see what can be done.

    The red Quicky type rat was built by Darrel.

    I remember the Go karts. Never knew that George had done it.

    The yellow one Darrel had was originally my Dads and loaned to Darrel after Dad moved on to formula cars.
    The Kart , a rare Mc R-1 became mine and is out in the shed.
    The engines are in the shop. Mc 91s.

    Remember Dyna Jets!!!! HA HA HA!!!!
    Would love to start one to scare the neighbor hood to death!!

    So this brings us back to Darrel.
    I have his old RH Dyna jet that was used in his Dyna Jet powered stunt plane, would do the entire pattern - gently.
    Somehow the jet wound up in a pawn shop so I latched on to it to save it.
    Dyna Jets are still flown in speed and has exceeded 200mph finally.

    People who have never heard a Dyna Jet run missed out.
    To me they sound like an electrical power transformer(on a pole) blowing up but non stop and then add the Doppler effect and, well its just plain old wicked! Women, children, birds ,dogs, cats and most grown men are tempted to run in circles and yell and scream when they first hear one.

    Lou( or anyone), do you make it to the B.R. Stunt contest?

    David
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  4. #29

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    RE: Rat Racing Plane kits

    I flew RR in the 60s using the harters pans and royal rodent and the torp 35 green head... also a fox 36x,,, i am in need ofa couple of harter pans if any of you wish to part with yours... thanks Speed flyer

  5. #30

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    RE: Rat Racing Plane kits

    Hey Speedy

    Do not know if Harters pans are still in production.
    Might try here
    B & L HOBBIES
    7606 Weymouth Rd., Hammonton, NJ 08037-3404
    Harters Speed Pans, T/R Pans, Rev-Up & Top Flite Speed Props, Torque Units and more (Paul Haley) 609-567-9365

    Darp pans are being grown on Pet rock farm. scroll to bottom click 'pans'
    Scroll down click 'buy pans' for price. These are aluminum not mag.

    http://petrockfarm.com/index.html


    If you just have to have a Harter and they are NLA get back to me and I can fix you up.

    What engine do you plan to use?
    In F-40 the K&B 6.5 is current King
    Nelson might be a choice or possibly the ST X.40
    The light case K&B dykes ring schnurle .40 might be competitive if really set up right

    David

  6. #31

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    RE: Rat Racing Plane kits

    i just returned from my storage unit and found my 60 rat i flew in the NW.. it has a  harters pan with a Fox 36x frozen but it came out of the pan fine... I had had use my grinder to lighten the pan so much that the hold down holes and mounting holes are WAY off for my future F40 and C speed plane.. RATS no use for my only Harters pan.. again any of you that may have one to sell me for my speed planes im building off of plans from my old flying buddy Chis Sackett up in BC Canada... please let me know i any of you can let go of a pan that will work with my new Nelson 40 FIRE.. THANKS

  7. #32

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    RE: Rat Racing Plane kits

    Damn Speedy! A new Nelson! And I'm stuck with a clunky old(New) X-40 with a chrome problem.

    Miss my 6.5!( hint, Hint ,Hint)


    David

  8. #33

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    RE: Rat Racing Plane kits

    Talking to my friend Henry Nelson as normal his N Q 40 the Rc pylon motor which has a long stroke is the motor to use.. There are lots of 40s around but many have been run hard and just will not compete with the Nelson Q40... if you call Henry tell him your have contacted me and i sent you to him... He likes to stay up late and will answer his emails very well... Oh I asked him the Rpm range and he said the motor should turn 30 k in the air... Another issue using the Nelson from what others have told me is DO nothing to it... Many speed flyers like to tinker and Henry has made his motors to work vs others who make motors.... it funny one flyer told me that he tried to mod his Nelson and his mods did not work so he was not going to send it back to Henry because Henry would probably not going to fix it. But Henry did but it took a little time to get it back>>>

  9. #34

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    RE: Rat Racing Plane kits

    Lou
    If your still around check this out.

    Charlie Melancon Memorial Control line Aerobatic Contest.

    I plan on being there.

    David

  10. #35

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    RE: Rat Racing Plane kits

    Henry always did sound like an really good guy. killer engines.

  11. #36

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    RE: Rat Racing Plane kits

    Hi SuperTiga,
    My dad would be embarassed about having a contest with his name on it, but he would be secretly very pleased. He would be even happier if a lot of fliers showed up to compete.
    Waco Brotherhood Member #110

  12. #37

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    RE: Rat Racing Plane kits

    Well Lou
    Come on down! or over! or west as the case is!

    Your Dad was well liked and respected by all.


    David

  13. #38

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    RE: Rat Racing Plane kits

    I have been reading all the conversations about rat racing in the 60's, brings back a lot of memories. I started flying in 1955 at the ripe old age of 12. Went from a Stanzel ABC trainer up through the usual progression. After about three years, flew contest combat, stunt, and rat race.
    Combat was Half Fast and Jerkline Special, stunt was Nobler ( have an ARF Nobler now) and rat race was a Hot Cinders.
    Bill Netzeband was a teacher and mentor for me when he lived in St. Louis MO.
    He helped me set up the Cinders with a Fox Combat Special with crankcase pressure on a brass piano shaped fuel. We were clocking between 110 and 115 mph. The Jerkline was setup similar with engine and fuel system. It clocked 90 to 100 mph.
    Got back into modeling a few years ago, mainly RC, but am building a Fierce Arrow (another Netzeband design) with a Thunderbird waiting.
    Question, does anyone know where I can find plans for the Hot Cinders rat racer and the Jerkline Special. Also a source for a 20 inch mag pan?
    A lot of the names being mentioned bring back a lot of memories
    Keep it up

    Jack Lipka

  14. #39

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    RE: Rat Racing Plane kits

    What a line-up of famous names, including fliers, planes, engines, and locations! Helps for me to clear up an aging 65 year-old memory. I grew up in Lafayette, Louisiana in the early 1960's and got started with (Who didn't, right) Cox thimble drome planes. That didn't last long- stepped up to a Sterling Ringmaster with a McCoy 35 stunt, then futzed around in combat and rat race. Never amounted to anything serious in competition, but still have happy memories and a peculiar castor oil odor around me. Had a classmate named Coyle Walter who helped build for me and fly with me- he's hiding away somewhere in Arkansas now.
    Local names I remember from Lafayette flying at Hamilton Training School field: George Hall, George Crain, Irvin Lauw, and a team that used to come in yearly for the regular meet, from Lake Charles as I remember. They were masters in combat, flew Quickers, Voodoo's, and many of their own designs, including one called the Banshee.
    I haven't flown in 40 years, but still love the u/c sport. I have moved into diesel engines (Yeah, even more castor oil mixed with Ether scent) from glows, though I still have a vintage Fox 35 Stunt engine around somewhere. If anybody would promise to use it, I'll give it away for shipping.
    I graduated from Lafayette Senior High, class of '64, looking forward to the 50th reunion soon.
    If anyone is interested in swapping memories from those halcyon days of yore, give me a whistle at cdsmith46@gmail.com
    BTW, looking for a set of plans for a .15 diesel sized rat racer or goodyear racer like they fly in England.

  15. #40

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    RE: Rat Racing Plane kits

    Charles,

    There are plenty of plans on RCGroups http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...1530258&page=8

    Also Yahoos CLRacing http://groups.yahoo.com/group/clraci...Plans_Archive/

    If there are any plans in particular that you want & can't find, give me a yell & I'll see if I can come up with a PDF for you.

    Regards

    Greg
    Regards
    Greg

    Elwood: They're not gonna catch us. We're on a mission from God.

  16. #41

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    RE: Rat Racing Plane kits

    I had a Count Clipper with the mag pan many years ago...it was a flying brick. A Ringmaster could outperform it.

  17. #42

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    RE: Rat Racing Plane kits


    ORIGINAL: Kiwi

    All right, who remembers this, when a contest was further distant than the normal range limit for leaving at 3:00 AM? Fort Worth and Dallas were a longer drive away for us, so we would leave the evening before, then stop at the roadside park outside of town when we got to it, and sleep a few hours, sometimes on the car's roof, if there were three of us, and I'd drawn a short straw! We'd wake up at 6:00, find a place for breakfast, and then head for the contest site.

    Another modeler on a budget suggested that, and it was workable, but only if I had a baby-sitter to stay with my kids, after 1964 (when they were along, I had to call ahead to a member of the host club I knew, or at least had a phone number for, and arrange a place to throw down sleeping bags in his house . . ) remember that I was on a stretched budget throughout my more active contest-going years, and felt that motel rooms were a real luxury expense!

    I remember Going to a contest in Dallas in 65 Riviera. Pop was driving with myself, Riley, Howard Henry, and Bently Page. We would leave at 2 am to get there in time to fly since we couldnt afford a motel. 5 of us in one car and we took all our equipment in the trunk and we flew combat and rat race. I cant imagine how the hell we did that! Andy and I take a full size van today just for the two of us to fly combat!

    Bob Mears

  18. #43
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    RE: Rat Racing Plane kits

    Many Thanks to all of you that went back and brought forward these memorial postings. They certainly do bring back those days when model airplanes were really FUN!

    I just have to digest this posting of Lou Melancon:
    Reading these posts about Rat Racing in Louisiana and Texas in the 60's brings back a lot of memories. In those years contests were a couple of weeks apart and they were held in Longview, Texas, Houston, Dallas, Lake Jackson, Shreveport, Louisiana, Alexandria, New Orleans, and other places, but those are the areas we went too. I was a teenager and built my combat planes and rat racers. My dad set up the engines. We mixed our own fuel in those days and used chemicals that today are known carcinogens (nitro benzine). If I remember correctly we ran 40% nitromethane, UCONN synthetic oil, and 8X9 Top Flite Power Props.
    I came to the Houston area (actually raised some 60 miles north) in late 1956 at age 20, just out of Aviation Cadets, stationed at Ellington field. I knew almost nothing about organized competition. Got into a Pasadena CL Club. Loved it. Anyone remember a name Fundeburk? He could finish a Stunter, looked like plastic, in no time. He helped me a lot. There was a quarterly event for area clubs, and I remember taking a couple combat profiles with a then relatively new engine, OS 35, to the party. Out comes the stubblefields with a truck load of flying wings and a large trunk full of K&B Greenhead .35s. I knew right then that I was well outclassed. [&o]
    18 months at Ellington, and USAF said, Boy, you going to SAC, B-47s. That pretty well stomped on my competition, but have you ever seen a Lieutenant flying a Stunter between two rows of Alert B-47s, all loaded with thermonukes, and ready to head for action? That is where I learned to be a fair Stunt flier.
    Some 5 years later I wound up in Laredo, TX as a Flight Instructor in the T-33, and modeling again really came to town. I also instructed in the T-38.
    I made several trips to Lake Jackson for CL Stunt and Free Flight. On one trip I took the Base Commander's son (I had gotten him fairly well trained) and he won several trophies. Guee what! About 6 weeks later, we had a nice Asphalt circle for up to 70 ft lines, fenced and with bleachers.

    The airplanes in the early sixties were based on the Harter's speed pan but a profile design out of Houston used by Ron Eastman and John Locke pretty much took over in 64 or 65. We used variations on that design for a couple of years before returning to pan based racers and cowling the engines.

    We used Super Tigre G-21 35s in combat and ringed 40s in Rat Race. The ringed engine would re-start much better than the lapped engines. I can remember going to contest in an un-airconditioned car with 4 others, 2 in the front, three in the back in the middle of night trying to get to the contest a just about day break. One of the guys in the back was usually doping a combat plane or doing repairs.

    In Houston we flew against John and Ron, plus Dickie Ritch, Sherwood Buckstaff, all three of the Stubbefiels, Monica Garrison, Pat Willcox, Bill Estill and many others. In Baton Rouge we had my dad, Jim Bethea, Brian Froisy, Howard Williams, and Bill Stevens active in racing for several years.
    Mr. Melecon, I know not where you are now, but I am here in New Caney (retired 16 years from United Air Lines) just north edge of Houston, trying to get back into some CL.
    FYI, Pat Wilcox is the President of Jetero RC Club, www.jetero.com, just east of Huffman. His son Mike was a world champion CL Combat flier a few years ago. Rumor is that he is now a hard working father and husband.
    Dicky Ritch's son, Randy, owns a Hobby Shop NW Houston area, just north of beltway and is a local AMA Associate Vice Pres.

    The speeds of the racers, their line pull and the physical demands of racing led to a shortage of able pilots. Sometines a pilot would fly his own plane and that of several others in a day. There were times when the finalists could fly off because they were using the same pilot.

    Those years, contests, airplanes, and people were very important to me growing up and I treasure the memories.
    _____________________________

    Waco Brotherhood Member #110

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    Thanks much for these memories. Look at the Jetero web site for names and numbers. Ya'll come see us. BTW there is a very nice set of circles at a model airplane field (RC and CL) in Scobbe Field (Park) west side of Houston, off Westheimer just west of route 6.
    Horrace Cain AMA L-93

    “Peace is the brief glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.\" T. Jefferson

  19. #44

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    RE: Rat Racing Plane kits

    And I thought I was all alone! We rode to contests early in the AM back in 60 and 61 to midwest events AND doped planes and made last minute repairs or adjustments as we rode (not driving). We got there early sometimes to run in a new engine before the day's events began. What a great hobby, as I remember being in the LAST combat round and NO airplane! Not to worry, my opponent offered me a plane to fly! Where is that kind of sportsmanship today? Having opponents offer fuel or props when needed was commonplace and winning at any cost was not the most important thing. My parents were always nervous about me at 14 and 15 riding with 'strangers' on holiday wekends to contests. They said if I maintained good grades though, I could go where I liked. Not true as in "if anything happened to you, your _______ will never forgive me", they renegged! Very disappointing, but the contests I did go to, including the NATS will never be forgotten. We learned from Earl Alexis, a cousin of a friend, who grew up flying models in New Orleans and saw us trying to fly with a half-A trainer (cessna 172). He said "that's no model airplane. Have you heard of combat?" He then took us to the hobby shop (he was over 16 and driving, going to electronic school at night and working for Belltone fixing hearing aids). He was fired up at the idea of flying again and bought a Ringmaster, motor, etc., built it in a day or two showing us how and took us to the park to fly it. At first, with no wheels, the idea that you would hand lauch a plane seemed like he was kidding us, plus he wanted us to hold this HUGE thing while it was trying to tear itself out of our hands? After one of us stepped forward and the plane was airborne, he had each of us into the center and put his hand over ours in the control handle, so we could FEEL this real model airplane pull! That did it! No more fear of mildly windy days and soon we all had Ringmasters. Next was combat and then the first CRASH. Pieces were retrieved in a shopping bag and depression set in. Earl said, 'come with me and we will make her fly again. IMPOSSIBLE, too many pieces, too much destruction, yet she was airborne 2 days later. Next, kit combat and then scratch built combat, mixing our fuel, rat racers, stunt for Earl and another veteran we discovered in the area that built speed planes and still another into early radio planes. Wonderful, helpful people in a great hobby. I feel so fortunate to have lived at that time, because with the chemistry and electrical experiments, my own rifle, my casting and finishing a working black powder ships cannon lethal at 500 yards(.38 cal. 9 inches long), rockets and other things I was allowed to do (won the sciene fair several times), my parents would be put in jail today! Yes, we were very fortunate. Leonard Evans/highiron999
    Posted on: 6/24/2010 5:49 PM by Author "highiron999" in the forum "Control Lines"

  20. #45

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    RE: Rat Racing Plane kits

    Hi Horace,
    My dad Charlie worked at Dow Chemical in Freeport. We lived in Lake Jackson till I was six when we moved to Louisiana as Dow started the Louisiana plant. As a kid in Lake Jackson I got to go to a wonderful hobby shop and drool over the planes and engines. They had a new engine called "Max" which looked good and was priced right. My dad and his friends were skeptical of all things made in Japan as they had a reputation for cheap and inferior products during that time.

    My dad took my brother and I to contests in Long View, Houston, and Shreveport just to see what it was all about. He liked building and working on engines and we eventually got into serious rat racing and combat.

    Everybody flew model airplanes then, it was almost a right o passagetobuild a scientific carved wood kit, put Baby Bee on it and go show your friends. Model airplanes were very high tech and racers were at the top of the heap.

    I know Mike and Pat Willcox and flew RC combat with them for a few years. Mike is certainly at a level I could never match but simply watch in awe as he dominated CL combat for years.

    Glad I could share the memories, best regards, Lou.
    Waco Brotherhood Member #110

  21. #46

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    RE: Rat Racing Plane kits

    I have the plan and i used to fly it  and race it with my friend and it is the best plane for me because i used to service it on the regular basis and whenever i have to play with it i always clean and when it need some of the oil i provide it. it fly smoothly and very easy to handle.


  22. #47

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    RE: Rat Racing Plane kits

    I have no idea about it because i never fly and i feel fear.I hope this forum is help you to solve this problem.thanks for sharing.

  23. #48

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    What a collection of old memories! I grew up in Lafayette, LA, flew C/L, aspired to combat and R/R, but couldn't run with the big boys. I remeber most of the above names, plus a few of my own friends: Irvin Lauw, George Crain, George Hall, OMG, things that would just be illegal amounts of fun now. Now, at 67, I'm into diesels, would kill to have a real Oliver Tiger Mk 3, but exist with a n MVVS and a possible Fox .15 schneurle b/b that I may conver to diesel by way of Davis. As the old song says, "Thanks for the memories?"

  24. #49

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    Hello Lou,
    I was just surfing this forum and saw this thread.
    I went to our F2C Team Trails in Dallas a few weeks ago traveling on I-10 through Baton Rouge started me thinking about Charlie and so many more great racers we have lost. Racing in the 60's - 80's were fantastic times, when you won you beat at least 30+ teams, now at our nats you might beat 5 or 6, so sad. I will always cherish the time I spent with Charlie.
    Dick Lambert


  25. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveSR71 View Post
    Jim
    Yeah, Rat was out of hand.
    At 135lbs soaking wet I built engines and pitted. 5-6 lap test flights and then the shut off was about all I felt Ok doing. Heck a slip or trip and I might wind up lost in the next county.
    In the 60s George Cleveland tried to get me to fly one as a jr at State Champs one year. Took an entire day to convince him that at lap 6 I was going to hit the shut off.
    We would have won as the airplane had about 20mph on the other jrs. I'm chicken.

    highiron
    Here is a pic of some sort of Quicky type Rat built in the 80s by a friend after I quit flying. I think they were using combat engines then.
    Strange engine rules for current Quicky Rat.
    The K&B 40 is engine of choice from whats legal. As they slowly blow up others will replace it.
    Notice external controls. I think this is a requirement.

    Sounds like you knew some of the old bunch.
    Stub and Buckstaff are 2 that come to mind as they were my main competition and one of us 3 usually had first place.-there were others. Great guys and good times.
    Stub and 4-5 of the others still fly combat!!
    Buck is gone.

    David
    Hey David,
    Jim Plake, just wondering if I know you? I've lately been hanging around the RC pylon forum but I grew up flying combat with those guys.
    In the '70's I flew in a club in Houston at Melrose park. Buckstaff and all the Stubblefields were in the club.
    As I remember combat and rat race were the thing to do. More names from the past?
    How about- Lanny and Larry Stubblefield? Ron Esman and David Layman- (they were a hell of a team)- the Dickey Ritch and Fred French team. George Cleveland- there were more. My brother and I were the only kids in the club so we always had to fly the men in our contests. hehe, when we traveled to the other club contests and actually got to fly other juniors it was easy pickens!


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