iflyg450

I started flying U-Control a few months ago and I love it. I have been a long time RC Flyer mostly pattern stuff. I only build kits and nothing else. Today at the club I lost my Sothern R/C Alley Kat. 1 year of building trashed due to a striped aileron servo Total bill for the crash $$$323.00$$$: 1 kit 90.00, 30.00 worth of stits poly fiber, 3 servos @ 18.00 each, 1 Rx 70.00, and 1 Engine 79.00. I realized after I finished flying my TD 051 baby clown, that if I crashed I would be out a 28 kit about 6.00 worth of monokote. Plus Pilot error would most likley kill a control line plane, that I can live with. However I burns me up knowing that I lost a plane because of a servo or a switch or some other piece of junk made in china!

One fast question what size+length wire should be used on a Super Tiger C-35 powered Voodoo???

BtnFlyGuy

Welcome back to the born-again! I don't fly combat-style, but look in the AMA book for line-length rules. (As if all these fine folks aren't gonna flood you with welcomes and help!) Round and round and up and down forever...

mathison205

.018 at 60'

JohnBuckner

My Feedback: (1)

Ditto

iflyg450

Thanks for the info, I don't plan on doing the combat stuff just sport flying. Also working on a Norvel 061 powered Pathfinder I plan on using 30Ft .008 steal or the Berkly fireline which is best?

BtnFlyGuy

I applaud your goal of flying a Voodoo as a sport plane...for me, it would be nothing more than a captive Lawn Dart.

dennis

My Feedback: (90)

iflyg450

Hitec HS475HB is a bad servo? Running a 6volt system they put out 70oz torque I was using a servo on each aileron. Being a RC flyer since 58 you know that fast moving pattern planes are nothing new but back then a standard size servo that gave that much torque with a Karbonite gear would have. Also the Alley Kat is no rocket I was just running a TT 46. I have used thoes servos on planes such as TF Holy Smoke running a K&B 45 Ducted fan engine. So sir you have never had a defective servo?

stuntflyr

I have, and I'm brand new to R/C. Bought a flight pack of Hitec stuff and one servo just would not center. No biggy this time as I swapped it out for a Tower servo I had lying around but...
You'll probably find that the little Pathfinder will need about 42 feet or so of 008's braided from Sig. Easier to handle than solids.
Have fun.
Chris...

dennis

My Feedback: (90)

I asked in a nice way not to take offence at some constructive criticism. Sure I know all about bad servos. The market was full of them from the start. Your absolutely right about power of older servos. Good Kraft of the period had 38 in/oz of torque so surfaces were smaller and gaps were kept to a minimum. Oh and ailerons were controlled by one servo either strip aileron set up or 90 degree cranks for barn door type.
Still I'm not going to get into a long discussion of why you get what you pay for but torque is not the main criteria. Oh and for the record I use digital and most are $80 to $125. Like I said quality is not cheap.
Dennis

iflyg450

sorry if I can accross like that. Still new to this hobby I have not used digitals I know they have their place but I think its overkill in a sport 40. The intent of this post was to point out that U/C can be a great way to go fly and save some cash. As you pointed out you spend 80 to 125 on a servo. well in a standard 4ch plane thats alot of cash flying around that still can be damaged on a crash due to pilot error. In control line your out some balsa a and covering R/C your looking at the loss of servos, rx, battery ect..

clpahodges

My Feedback: (3)

I fly my Norvel .061 powered Pathfinder on .008 X 52' lines. It does the complete pattern quite nicely on these lines. I believe 30' lines might be too short unless you are looking for speed.

Edit: Prop is an APC 6-2.

Bill Hodges

iflyg450

Thats great to hear. I love when I get info from someone using the same setup that I plan using. Which size prop are you running. I have only run my norvel on small pylon planes.

gcb

iflyg450,

I think you'll get a shock when you find out what some PA (Precision Aerobatic) pilots have invested in a front row stunt plane.

What you lost in that RC plane is less than the cost of a good PA engine.

Plus you always need a backup.

CL can be as cheap or as expensive as you want to go. My stuff is on the cheap end.

George

Hossfly

Don't feel sorry, unless you feel sorry for the individual that thinks price is the greatest factor in everything. I live very frugal, yet I have everything I want, plus enough funds to keep on doing so, for longer than my life expectancy.
I have a dozen digitals in the workshop because 4 came with a 2.4 radio that I seldom use as it is on a model now used only as a night-flier, which has rather inexpensive servos. 8 came from ebay as I suppose they were being sold by someone that had to have higher priced digitals.
I recognize that some competition types certainly need whatever the current trendy thing so advertises. I am not in that group.
I have a fair number of sport models. All use regular analog servos, mostly Hitec's lesser expensive $30 and DOWN. I do have some of another brand with 100 oz. torque, but the 50-80 oz. moves my surfaces very adequately.
Never had a crash caused by a bad servo, however I have only been flying RC since 1971. Maybe my time has not yet come. Now, there have been crashes because of the "Glitch between the ears," mid-air crashes in pylon racing, and ARF structural failures, plus inattention to battery conditions, but that too is another glitch between the ears. Right! Cannot blame the servo with that one, just because I let the feed trough run dry, it's not the servo's fault as it has to be fed!

Digital servos need about the same feeding while resting at idle as the analog needs while hard at work. Digitals were, IMO, made to sell more and larger batteries to those that brag about the price paid. Now I bet those same folks P&M if they have to pay $100 a year to fly those many-dollar servos, at a club that has its own flying site. [sm=49_49.gif]

edited to add: These fly without digitals:

stuntflyr

Captain Cain,
What engine is in the Little Toni and what is the last model in the old picture? Nice models.
Chris...

Hossfly

HA! You would have to ask that question wouldn't you? At the time of the picture the Lit' Toni had a Dub Jett 90 in it with two muffler extenders. I never could get that DJ to be really reliable with that configuration, and because the model is only flown occasionally for sport flying, I placed a ST 90 in it. Side mounted the ST 90 is flawless. It only took a dozen flights on that machine until I had to rebuild and beef up the firewall structure. This was an early ARF kit of the Toni, and it was not, IMO, too well put together in the front.

The old picture was back in '73, at a local stunt meet in the Chicago area where it placed 1st. To your question, at that time it was using a George Aldrich Special Super Tigre 40 which was a super stunt engine. There were 3 models of that line. My first was smaller for a Fox .35. I later switched to a Veco 35, which was also excellent. It won a few trophies. The pictured model, I added some more wing, extended fuselage and added more sweep in the main wing. It was an outstanding stunter. #3 had a couple changes such as a stabilator. WRONG DESIGN DECISION. [:@] Now I know why, but then I did not. That machine had a mind of its own. The first Mig was initially flown in 1969, and into 71. The second (pictured) in 71-73 and the 3rd in late 72-73 but not much. By '73 I was too far wrapped up in RC and sold out my CL stuff. Another planned project is to build a revised #3 this winter and see how goes it. I will use a Fox .40 stunt engine or maybe a ST .45. I have some .51 and .56s that can be retrofitted to do a decent job of stunt.

Speaking of engines, I was asked to fly a preproduction McCoy 40, that gray-case one, at the '71 NATs. Possibly my only chance to ever get in the top 10 at a NATS. BIG MISTAKE! Only had 4 practice flights before the first official. It was going good, about 6.5 minutes on Fox Superfuel. I was doing a fair job for me. I knew I had a barn-burner flight going. Then just after the loop of the 4-leaf while going over the top, that #$?^%!* went into Rat Race lean and I got 12 minutes of flight time. Had I just got the 25 pattern points OR a decent landing for same, I would have placed 2nd in my circle given a decent 2nd flight. Of course I set too rich for 2nd flight and wallowed all over the sky. Testors did not ask for any comments on their new entry into the CL Stunt circles. However that engine was very good in RC. It had a K&B Series 70 piston, dykes ring and rod in it.

See what a novel you get when you ask me a simple question?

Jim Thomerson

I built one of the Bear monoboom conbat airplanes (don't recall the name) for a clapped out ST G 21-35 ex slow rat engine. I have a small perfect hard tank uniflowed and run crankcase pressure. On an APC 8 x 8 and 10% nitro, it is an honest 100 mph airplane. It runs for about two minutes on the tank and I am sweating and shaking by the time it quits. Haven't flown it in some time.

cutaway

If its a "stock" short tailed C/G VooDoo circa early 60's, then it was designed when .015x60' were used and the leadout sweep might be a tad on the light side for .018's which became mandated in the late 60's or early 70's.

I recently built a short tail VooDoo from plans and moved the front leadout back 1/2". For .018 flying this turned out to be about perfect, and corresponds roughly to what Goldberg was recommending in their later kits with a little paper addendum insert in the long tail VooDoo (which appeared somewhat after the .018 requirement)

A good C-35 is powerful enough to keep it out on the end of .018's even with the original early 60's setup though. Its just not going to pull as stoutly.

I put a ST .46 in mine fitted with the wide open G21 pressure venturi spinning a 9x8. It was pretty fast.

stuntflyr

Thanks Captain Cain,
I was a Junior contestant in Speed at those Nats, my Dad was big into Stunt then. I'm going to go through his albums and look for your Mig. The versions that were drawn up before 1970 are Classic legal, the other ones are legal for the new Nostalgia 30 or Super Seventies class from 1970 to 1979. I Sure would like to one at VSC! The swept wing and flying tail were very daring.
I was counseled to fly an ST40 and Sig Super Chipmunk for the '73 Nats but never completed the plan. My wife bought me the kit a couple of years ago for the engine I still have so maybe I'll get to relive the dream anyway.
Those ST90's do get around. One friend has one in his Balsa USA SE5A and another buddy has one in his Royal Bearcat. They seem great and powerful as long as they get the oil required. I bet that Cosmic Wind hauls...!
Keep us informed on the Mig Stunter, pictures please!
Chris...

Hossfly

Thanks, Chris;

Hey, I am no Captain anymore. been 13.5 years since I set the parking brake last time and not in a cockpit since. Actually I detest flying commercially. Being retired, wifey thinks I'm just a second officer again.

If my health holds and I can get my lazy butt to building, looking to make the VSC next March. I have a Viking ready to drop the Super Cyke into and get it tested out, plus an OOOLLLDDD Still Stuka that flies, will change to Fox 29 soon vice the .36 now in it, and a S1 Ringmaster with very good Fox .35. Hey, I get dizzy flying CL now.

I seriously doubt your dad ever took a picture of my models. I did not take many. Most were lost in basement flood back in late '70s then during a lifestyle change in '82.

stuntflyr

Well, Captain Cain has a nice ring to it; though I am not the PIC at my house either! This one is my last lifestyle change, I'll keep it that way!

The VSC plan is sound, hope you can make it. I think that leaving the 36 in the Stuka Stunt may be an asset because of the wind and DA at Tucson, worth a thought. I like your thinking though with the original stuff.

I hope I can get there myself, I'm trying to finish a 4 year old Gieseke Nobler project and a little Cal Smith Shoestring for Old Time (I don't like many of the Old Time designs so I build Scale ships for it!).

Dad was a big photo bug back then, if I find one I'll let you know.

Take care,
Chris...

JohnBuckner

My Feedback: (1)

Are any of the circles used at the VSC paved, asphalt or concrete?

Jim Thomerson

There are three paved circles and three grass circles. OTS and Classic are flown on paved circles. Ignition OTS is flown on one of the grass circles. Tuscon is at 2500 ft. I generally fly at about 800 ft. My thinking is that the ground is about four feet higher in Tucson than I am used to. So I am a little cautious on the first couple of practice flights. I ordinarily do not change fuel or needle setting. I like to go out a couple of days early to get in practice flights. This year I did two practice flights each of the two days, then flew very early the first contest day and very late the second day. Fox 35 ran the same as at home, regardless.

OTS is flown on two circles, one flight each day, swap circles the second day. Go down the list the first day, up the list the second day. Scores are added to determine standing. Flying starts early to get through by early afternoon, before the wind comes up. Classic is flown on three circles over three days, best two out of three are added together.

Shame on you if you die without going to at least one VSC.

JohnBuckner

My Feedback: (1)

Well I agree and the paved circles may make that possible. I can only find info on the 2008 that was in March, so is the next one in march 2010?

Is there a class that will allow a Magician with a throttled forty flown with an electonic handle. That throttle and a paved circle for my wheelchair are the key points that may allow my participation and its all about just being able to participate.

Thank you

John