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highflyinguy 10-30-2004 08:23 PM

Rat Racing Plane kits
 
I have a friend I used to fly with back 45 years ago in highschool who has a Dooling .29 and he was wondering if there are any rat racer kits on the market. He would like to give it a try even though he mostly flys R/C.
I'll get him converted back to C/L or versa visa.
He has built a Thunderbird made and ready to go, but yet to fly it, do to lack of C/L flying sites and flyers in his area, mama won't launch. Mama dont low no C/L flyin there.
Appreciate any info, Jerry

William Robison 10-30-2004 10:35 PM

RE: Rat Racing Plane kits
 
1 Attachment(s)
Jerry:

To start, a Dooling 29 is not an ideal rat racing engine. On a bet I did build a rat with a Dooling back around 1960, but I had to use a pen bladder tank to get it to run reliably.

I don't know of any kits available, but if you can find an old Testor's "Freshman 29" it can be cut down to make a pretty good one, or the old Harter's "Royal Rodent" or "Student Prince" were good also.

Picture is my antique (45 year old) Student Prince cut down for rat racing. OS Max I 0.35 engine. The spinner had to be taken off for legal racing, of course.

Bill.

Jim Thomerson 10-30-2004 11:29 PM

RE: Rat Racing Plane kits
 
Harter's Royal Rodent was designed for a Dooling 29. Those kits come up on ebay every once in a while. Rat Race as we knew it is no longer around. I think they are flying 15-size rat now. Check the new AMA rule book when it comes out or go to the NCLRA website. There is an event called Quickie Rat with profiles flown mostly with K&B baffle piston 40's that is becoming popular. Rules are on the NCLRA website.

Jim

William Robison 10-30-2004 11:50 PM

RE: Rat Racing Plane kits
 
1 Attachment(s)
Jim:

Harters used ti same magnesium pan for the Student Prince, the Royal Rodent, and the Regal Raider, a kit for a "Proto Speed" plane. There was also a combat design using the same pan, but I don't remember the name they had on that one.

The pan, being used on all four planes, was designed to accept all the 0.29 - 0.35 engines of the time, not specifically the Dooling. My last Regal Raider had a Super Tigre 0.29 in it The plane I showed in the picture has an OS, it also had a Fox 0.40 for a short time, and an OS Max III 0.35. The OS Max I was fastest. And it still runs very well.

Bill.

PS: Two more pictures. wr.

Jim Thomerson 10-31-2004 09:04 AM

RE: Rat Racing Plane kits
 
That group of airplanes, and the Harters pan, were designed by the late Clarence Idoux, whom you can read about in Charles Mackey's history of control line book. The Royal Rodent plans show a Dooling 29. I havn't seen plans for the others. The combat airplane was the Count Clipper, as I recall. Clarence passed away about 7 or 8 years ago after 52 years in the hobbyshop business. He had a shop in East St. Louis and then, later, West Side Hobbies in Belleville, IL. Harters is in Belleville, now mostly a train and plastics shop. Clarence was one of the several inventors of the uniflow tank. I think he set a protospeed record with the Regal Raider.

My first Royal Rodent had an Enya 29 on crankcase pressure. The problem was that the tank was set too low to get a good run with a front intake engine. I later built several more Rats on Harter pans with a deeper body to raise the tanks. These were flown with big-case Johnson 35 and 1961 Fox Combat Special. On the Fox airplane, I notched the wing into the pan and mounted the tank on top of the wing. I won 3rd at 105 MPH in a "C speed" contest in New Orleans with it. It was my first and only time to fly off a pylon. I was all over the sky and eventually crashed, breaking the pan into three pieces.

Jim

highflyinguy 10-31-2004 04:44 PM

RE: Rat Racing Plane kits
 
Thanks for the education on rat racing, I will forward the information on to my friend. He can surf Ebay, of which he is a regular customer. That is were he got the Dooling.
I don't think he want's to be competitive, just fly one for grins. I told him to fly the T-Bird first to get rid of the dizzies, that racer will screw his mind up. I went from flying a .40 size stunt plane on a regular basis and flew a friends 1/2A combat ship, that messed with my mind, untill he had it flying way slow for me.
Jerry

William Robison 10-31-2004 09:42 PM

RE: Rat Racing Plane kits
 
Jim:

Quite right, the combat job was the "Count Clipper." It was the unsuccessful one of the four, built up way too heavy.

I didn't know Clarence Idoux, and it's been so long since I've seen any of the Harter's plans I have no idea what engine might have been shown. But the Dooling still wasn't a good rat engine. On the Regal Raider it might have done well, but proto wanted the higher torque engine for the initial acceleration. With the ST 29 I was running 135-140 mph.

I never had any problem running any engine with crank case pressure, don't know why you did. See the picture of the tank - ran perfectly, and it couldn't have been any lower.

I rather suspect your entry into C speed with your Rodent was just to have a third entrant. Even in '61 we were running around 160 mph with the McCoy 60 engines.

The first thing I had to learn about flying speed was to give the plane full down the moment the nose went up. If you waited until it started back down to give it up elevator you were going to crash. And I ruined my first B plane just for that reason. The engine stopped about 250 yards away from the circle, and the biggest part of the plane was too small for a match stick. Well, that might be a slight overstatement, but it wasn't something I could repair. Replaced the crank shaft in the engine, still have that old Mac 29. Maybe I was a fast learner, but that was my first flight with u/c speed, and it was my first and last crash with a u/c speed plane. That is, of course, if we don't count bouncing out of the dolly and wiping the prop blades off.

Memories. Haven't flown u/c speed for 40 years, now.

Bill.

Jim Thomerson 11-01-2004 09:30 PM

RE: Rat Racing Plane kits
 
The C Speed event was a local event for rat racers. I flew my Johnson 35 rat that day in Rat Race and blew a head gasket at about 10 laps. That was my last contest until in the mid 70's when I got back into modeling.

Jim

dennis 11-02-2004 03:49 AM

RE: Rat Racing Plane kits
 

ORIGINAL: Jim Thomerson

The C Speed event was a local event for rat racers. I flew my Johnson 35 rat that day in Rat Race and blew a head gasket at about 10 laps. That was my last contest until in the mid 70's when I got back into modeling.

Jim

Yes Jim, The Johnson didn't really need much of a reason to blow that miserable fibre gasket at the slightest provication, We had aluminum gaskets for it and that ended the problem. Dennis
Dennis

William Robison 11-02-2004 04:02 AM

RE: Rat Racing Plane kits
 
Dennis/Jim:

The bad one was the old four-bolt headed Fox 35. You took more head gaskets to fly than props. Flip the engine a couple times, it would pop with an odd noise. Change the head gasket and flip it some more.

Bill.

highiron999 06-07-2010 08:22 PM

RE: Rat Racing Plane kits
 
Rat Racing kits were few in the 60's, but the fun was massive. Goldberg made one with motor mounts that ran the length of the plane for strength, but way too heavy. I cut my teeth with that and then quickly built a racer around the Harter speed pans.

I remember the Johnson Combat Special was the best engine except we blew the engine head off at the exhaust port on two motors (need more than a gasket to fix that!) They ran like the dickens AND restarted fast until they blew. Could it be the high nitro we ran? We settled on the K&B .35 for Rat Racing because they started hot!

Dooling .29 was a speed mortor that had piston rings and although it ran very fast (set some records) it would not restart hot! Had a Fox .29X in my proto speed on a monoline that took second place at a Kankakee, Il. meet. Put it in a 'B' speed plane but never got a good run. Once it did not release from the dolly and the result was the end of that plane. We flew mostly combat with the needle bearing Fox Combat Special, K&B .35 or the Johnson (till it blew). Nelson engines dominated speed. Back to Rat Racing

Picture four flyers in a 60ft. circle with .29 to .36 engined planes capable of 115mph plus in a 140 lap race with two pit stops required. That was REAL fun and plenty dangerous! There were the alert and the hurt, with no end to the exciting stories told on the way home after a meet. Burns, cuts and fuel in open wounds was standard, including the fuel-in-the-grass fires that were invisible on a hot day.

Now it is so civilized. Two planes in a "race" or simply time trials that are called a rat race. I know the 'rat racers' in 1980 could exceed 160mph, what I do not know is what happened that tamed the event SOOOO much?

Want to build one; try basswood wing, metal pan, an engine that runs like the dickens and starts HOT with one flip and a fuel tank that gets 50 to 60 laps.

Now tell me how out of date my thinking is. We REALLY had fun.

Leonard Evans-Chicago in the 60's and highiron999 in Ca. today a train nut!

DaveSR71 06-08-2010 06:00 PM

RE: Rat Racing Plane kits
 
1 Attachment(s)
Many years ago...
No
A long time ago in a far away place.....
No thats not correct.

Well I know I was waddling around in diapers teething on a top flight 10X6 nylon when Mom and Dad flew Rat.
She was pilot and he was crew.
They flew a modified Ringmaster Jr. with hoped up K&B green head .35 in Rat.
Mom also flew the protos with Dad flying the "B" and the "D" s.

Quicky Rat is what is flown now with spec type engines with the ringed K&B .40 seems to be the best choice.
Will try to find and post pic of old quicky that is current legal type airplane.

Jim
Did you fly in other Louisiana contest?
Have film of combat, stunt and scale from various contest in 50s, 60s & 70s.

Highiron in the early 70s we were reducing the number of pilots in a race as the speeds went ever higher.
By 75 our 6.5 was turning laps right at 170mph and we were now down to 2 pilots and even big guys like Stubblefield needed to hang onto the other pilot to last a race. This is the year I quit.

Pic of some remains from 50s

During the early 70s this is the type Rats we flew.(Silver airplane)
K&B 6.5 was my favorite power plant.

David


highiron999 06-08-2010 06:51 PM

RE: Rat Racing Plane kits
 
David;

Thanks for your reply. Quickie Rat sounds very good for me. It is good to know that the event has survived the increases in speed. Reminds me of a profile rat racer we had years ago, sort of a starter racer that you could abuse to learn, but could only win if everyone else crashed!

The Midwest rat racer kit would be good today speed wise, yet it would not qualify as it is not a profile body.

Thanks for jogging my memory about Stubblefield and why they were two at a time. Good to know folks still are flying and I still plan to rejoin you guys in the not too distant future.

Leonard Evans/Highiron999

Jim Thomerson 06-08-2010 06:54 PM

RE: Rat Racing Plane kits
 
That one Louisiana contest was probably in 1962. I dropped out of modeling right after that because I just didn't have the time to pursue it like I like. Got back in about 1975 in Illinois. I was CL racing director at the 1983 nats. There were maybe four pilots for fast rat, so we took some 15 minute breaks while pilots recuperated. I think flying a 170 MPH fast rat for a 10 mile race is probably the most physically difficult event in model aviation.

BtnFlyGuy 06-08-2010 07:18 PM

RE: Rat Racing Plane kits
 
Oh Lordy! a Rat Racer and an Uno player! What other bad habits do you possess?
When Iwas a kid growin up in the 60's Ithought racers were just about the coolest looking thing in the world. Still do except for the feminine form.

DaveSR71 06-21-2010 10:31 PM

RE: Rat Racing Plane kits
 
1 Attachment(s)
Jim
Yeah, Rat was out of hand.
At 135lbs soaking wet I built engines and pitted. 5-6 lap test flights and then the shut off was about all I felt Ok doing. Heck a slip or trip and I might wind up lost in the next county.
In the 60s George Cleveland tried to get me to fly one as a jr at State Champs one year. Took an entire day to convince him that at lap 6 I was going to hit the shut off.
We would have won as the airplane had about 20mph on the other jrs. I'm chicken.

highiron
Here is a pic of some sort of Quicky type Rat built in the 80s by a friend after I quit flying. I think they were using combat engines then.
Strange engine rules for current Quicky Rat.
The K&B 40 is engine of choice from whats legal. As they slowly blow up others will replace it.
Notice external controls. I think this is a requirement.

Sounds like you knew some of the old bunch.
Stub and Buckstaff are 2 that come to mind as they were my main competition and one of us 3 usually had first place.-there were others. Great guys and good times.
Stub and 4-5 of the others still fly combat!!
Buck is gone.

David



highiron999 06-22-2010 12:48 PM

RE: Rat Racing Plane kits
 
Supertiga;

Thanks for the pics, gives me a good idea about what is happening today. You are right that I was flying when those guys were racing and winning. There was Riley Wooten from Texas with his combat planes. You pegged it!

Highiron999<br type="_moz"/>

gcb 06-22-2010 12:52 PM

RE: Rat Racing Plane kits
 
David,

How well did those Fox .29R's you show above run? Man those McCoys look GOOD!

George

DaveSR71 06-22-2010 02:43 PM

RE: Rat Racing Plane kits
 
highiron
Make sure you get the rules, my comments are based on hearsay in discussions.
Combat is what I was referring to but results were similar in rat.
Riley had mostly stopped flying when I started, he was more from Dads time period.
G.A. was still doing engine work and I believe did it up to almost the end.

Riley has Lone Star Balsa up and running again.


George
The Speed engines were from Mom and dads time period.
The 2 plug .29R was given to Mom by Duke for her never finished new Proto and has never been run.
The single plug .29R origins are not remembered.
Not a clue as to how they ran but have heard they were not great.

The McCoy .60 won a few trophies and .29 is un run.
Most of Dads .29 for speed were based on the Fox X.29.

Also have their old Hornet .60s and K&B .29 speed engines and more.

David

DaveSR71 06-22-2010 02:55 PM

RE: Rat Racing Plane kits
 
Forgot to mention that the .40 sized pan rats are currently legal for F40 speed event.
That's what the silver one was built for......need pilot.

David

Kiwi 06-23-2010 06:44 AM

RE: Rat Racing Plane kits
 

ORIGINAL: highiron999

Supertiga;

Thanks for the pics, gives me a good idea about what is happening today. You are right that I was flying when those guys were racing and winning. There was Riley Wooten from Texas with his combat planes. You pegged it!

Highiron999<br type=''_moz''/>
Speaking of Riley and the Lone Star balsa fire disaster, before that happened, Riley was making a kit for the "Texas Rat" model, a stubby little thing that meets the rules for the nostalgia event. I have a couple of the old sidewinder rat kits - one is a "Scat Rat", as I recall . . if I decided to enter a contest, I even have a couple of the rear rotor K&B 40s that were used at the tail end of the 3-plane heat racing (and in fact one or the other probably was used that way 45 years or so ago).

P. S. I've visited the Lone Star Balsa web site since writing the message above, and if they are selling any kits of any kind now, they must be listed only in the downloaded catalog file.



Lou Melancon 06-24-2010 02:04 PM

RE: Rat Racing Plane kits
 
Reading these posts about Rat Racing in Louisiana and Texas in the 60's brings back a lot of memories. In those years contests were a couple of weeks apart and they were held in Longview, Texas, Houston, Dallas, Lake Jackson, Shreveport, Louisiana, Alexandria, New Orleans, and other places, but those are the areas we went too. I was a teenager and built my combat planes and rat racers. My dad set up the engines. We mixed our own fuel in those days and used chemicals that today are known carcinogens (nitro benzine). If I remember correctly we ran 40% nitromethane, UCONN synthetic oil, and 8X9 Top Flite Power Props.

The airplanes in the early sixties were based on the Harter's speed pan but a profile design out of Houston used by Ron Eastman and John Locke pretty much took over in 64 or 65. We used variations on that design for a couple of years before returning to pan based racers and cowling the engines.

We used Super Tigre G-21 35s in combat and ringed 40s in Rat Race. The ringed engine would re-start much better than the lapped engines. I can remember going to contest in an un-airconditioned car with 4 others, 2 in the front, three in the back in the middle of night trying to get to the contest a just about day break. One of the guys in the back was usually doping a combat plane or doing repairs.

In Houston we flew against John and Ron, plus Dickie Ritch, Sherwood Buckstaff, all three of the Stubbefiels, Monica Garrison, Pat Willcox, Bill Estill and many others. In Baton Rouge we had my dad, Jim Bethea, Brian Froisy, Howard Williams, and Bill Stevens active in racing for several years.

The speeds of the racers, their line pull and the physical demands of racing led to a shortage of able pilots. Sometines a pilot would fly his own plane and that of several others in a day. There were times when the finalists could fly off because they were using the same pilot.

Those years, contests, airplanes, and people were very important to me growing up and I treasure the memories.



Kiwi 06-24-2010 02:59 PM

RE: Rat Racing Plane kits
 

ORIGINAL: Lou Melancon

Reading these posts about Rat Racing in Louisiana and Texas in the 60's brings back a lot of memories. In those years contests were a couple of weeks apart and they were held in Longview, Texas, Houston, Dallas, Lake Jackson, Shreveport, Louisiana, Alexandria, New Orleans, and other places, but those are the areas we went too. I was a teenager and built my combat planes and rat racers. My dad set up the engines. We mixed our own fuel in those days and used chemicals that today are known carcinogens (nitro benzine). If I remember correctly we ran 40% nitromethane, UCONN synthetic oil, and 8X9 Top Flite Power Props.

The airplanes in the early sixties were based on the Harter's speed pan but a profile design out of Houston used by Ron Eastman and John Locke pretty much took over in 64 or 65. We used variations on that design for a couple of years before returning to pan based racers and cowling the engines.

We used Super Tigre G-21 35s in combat and ringed 40s in Rat Race. The ringed engine would re-start much better than the lapped engines. I can remember going to contest in an un-airconditioned car with 4 others, 2 in the front, three in the back in the middle of night trying to get to the contest a just about day break. One of the guys in the back was usually doping a combat plane or doing repairs.


1964 was the last year I didn't have an air conditioned car. I was driving a 1960 Thunderbird that needed a compressor, but required some special (Japanese, perhaps?) one that cost a fortune. I bought a (used) Dodge that had a so-so A/C system, and had that part overhauled, making it good enough to freeze everyone inside rapidly on the hottest days. There were just club members only contests in San Antonio when I lived there (here, now), and some inter-club events between an Austin club and San Antonio.

I traveled to Lake Jackson, Longview, Houston, Lake Charles, and I think Baton Rouge. I may have been in Shreveport once. Dallas was a place my friends and I almost always had terrible luck competing at. Far too often in the early 60s, I would draw Riley or (damn, who designed the Big Iron?) another very tall, very good combat flier, but from Oklahoma, first round (OK, in edit, it was Carl berryman). If it wasn't me, it was one of the others with me. But for financial reasons, I only attended about half of the contests that were more or less "in range". We didn't include motel stays as part of what we expected to do to compete.


In Houston we flew against John and Ron, plus Dickie Ritch, Sherwood Buckstaff, all three of the Stubbefiels, Monica Garrison, Pat Willcox, Bill Estill and many others. In Baton Rouge we had my dad, Jim Bethea, Brian Froisy, Howard Williams, and Bill Stevens active in racing for several years.

The speeds of the racers, their line pull and the physical demands of racing led to a shortage of able pilots. Sometines a pilot would fly his own plane and that of several others in a day. There were times when the finalists could fly off because they were using the same pilot.

Those years, contests, airplanes, and people were very important to me growing up and I treasure the memories.


I was 24 in 1964, and was married, with a little baby at home, so I had responsibilities there, with only a moderate income with which to budget necessities plus hobbies. A couple of years later, I was divorced, and the sole parent to one toddler, and one infant. That limited my contest-going options, although I'd moved to Houston and had a much better job there, which put Lake Jackson and Houston contests in my back yard, so to speak, and my San Antonio model friends could come the afternoon before contests, and camp out in my living room (my job wasn't good enough, yet, to buy a house, so there was no guest room in my apartment for them to use).



highiron999 06-24-2010 04:49 PM

RE: Rat Racing Plane kits
 
And I thought I was all alone!

We rode to contests early in the AM back in 60 and 61 to midwest events AND doped planes and made last minute repairs or adjustments as we rode (not driving). We got there early sometimes to run in a new engine before the day's events began. What a great hobby, as I remember being in the LAST combat round and NO airplane! Not to worry, my opponent offered me a plane to fly! Where is that kind of sportsmanship today? Having opponents offer fuel or props when needed was commonplace and winning at any cost was not the most important thing.

My parents were always nervous about me at 14 and 15 riding with 'strangers' on holiday wekends to contests. They said if I maintained good grades though, I could go where I liked. Not true as in "if anything happened to you, your _______ will never forgive me", they renegged! Very disappointing, but the contests I did go to, including the NATS will never be forgotten.

We learned from Earl Alexis, a cousin of a friend, who grew up flying models in New Orleans and saw us trying to fly with a half-A trainer (cessna 172). He said "that's no model airplane. Have you heard of combat?" He then took us to the hobby shop (he was over 16 and driving, going to electronic school at night and working for Belltone fixing hearing aids). He was fired up at the idea of flying again and bought a Ringmaster, motor, etc., built it in a day or two showing us how and took us to the park to fly it.

At first, with no wheels, the idea that you would hand lauch a plane seemed like he was kidding us, plus he wanted us to hold this HUGE thing while it was trying to tear itself out of our hands? After one of us stepped forward and the plane was airborne, he had each of us into the center and put his hand over ours in the control handle, so we could FEEL this real model airplane pull!

That did it! No more fear of mildly windy days and soon we all had Ringmasters. Next was combat and then the first CRASH. Pieces were retrieved in a shopping bag and depression set in. Earl said, 'come with me and we will make her fly again. IMPOSSIBLE, too many pieces, too much destruction, yet she was airborne 2 days later. Next, kit combat and then scratch built combat, mixing our fuel, rat racers, stunt for Earl and another veteran we discovered in the area that built speed planes and still another into early radio planes.

Wonderful, helpful people in a great hobby.
I feel so fortunate to have lived at that time, because with the chemistry and electrical experiments, my own rifle, my casting and finishing a working black powder ships cannon lethal at 500 yards(.38 cal. 9 inches long), rockets and other things I was allowed to do (won the sciene fair several times), my parents would be put in jail today! Yes, we were very fortunate.

Leonard Evans/highiron999

DaveSR71 06-24-2010 05:13 PM

RE: Rat Racing Plane kits
 
HI Lou!
I remember you and thanks for some names I couldn't remember.!
Darrel said he talked to you at an R/C combat meet year or 2 ago.

{Those years, contests, airplanes, and people were very important to me growing up and I treasure the memories.}
Yes indeed. Best times of my life!


Flew against you and your Dad at Alex in Bobby and mine first Fast Rat event.
Ya'll had a new ST .40 RR and we were running an old K&B .40 FI on a Quicky.
Memory says that the ST was new and hard to hot start and the old K&B was one flip hot(mostly)
We beat you in the pits but you certainly had the speed! Early 70s I think.
Later we got our hands on a K&B 6.5WHAT AN ENGINE!!!

Got to fly with your Dad at B.R. 3 or so years ago. Enjoyed visiting with him. He will be missed.

One year in 60s George C. CDed a contest at LSU stadium if I remember correctly.
One of the young ones pitting a Fast Rat was hit in the chest by another teams Rat during a pit stop.
Poked a hole in his chest and knocked him down.
Who was that person?


Carl Berryman designed the Big Iron.

Kiwi
I do not think that the K&B R.R. is legal for current. The F.I. dykes ring engine is whats needed.
Do you have a 6.5 K&B? Kinda lookin for one.


highiron
Those were good times in to me a better world.

Well off to practice the stunt pattern.

David
rehabilitated combat junky!

Kiwi 06-24-2010 05:38 PM

RE: Rat Racing Plane kits
 
All right, who remembers this, when a contest was further distant than the normal range limit for leaving at 3:00 AM? Fort Worth and Dallas were a longer drive away for us, so we would leave the evening before, then stop at the roadside park outside of town when we got to it, and sleep a few hours, sometimes on the car's roof, if there were three of us, and I'd drawn a short straw! We'd wake up at 6:00, find a place for breakfast, and then head for the contest site.

Another modeler on a budget suggested that, and it was workable, but only if I had a baby-sitter to stay with my kids, after 1964 (when they were along, I had to call ahead to a member of the host club I knew, or at least had a phone number for, and arrange a place to throw down sleeping bags in his house . . ) remember that I was on a stretched budget throughout my more active contest-going years, and felt that motel rooms were a real luxury expense!


Lou Melancon 06-25-2010 02:28 PM

RE: Rat Racing Plane kits
 
David a/k/a SuperTiga,
I did see Darrell at an RC Combat contest several years ago. I was amazed to run into him. He and George went on to Kart racing for a while and I went off to College. When we went to a contest we had 5-8 folks in a motel room. I remember in Longview all the modelers stayed at the same hotel and ate at the same Mexican restaurant. Some knuckle head was running his racing engine in the parking lot in the middle of the night. The room smelled of Ambroid, butyrate dope, and clothes soaked with castor oil. Greatest scents in the world.

At the Dallas Nats, which was my first, we paid a dollar a night for a room in the barracks and 10 cents per meal in the mess hall. The movie theater cost 5 cents and the big hangar was filled with plywood work benches end to end and opened all day and night. What an experience for a kid!

I was going through some old issues, from the late fifties and early sixties of Model Airplane News. Sterling had a contest to guess how many RingMasters had been made. First prize I think was the princely sum of $50. The answer was published in a later issue. It was over 287,000 kits. Can you imagine any kit of any model today selling at that rate?

Two other folks who had a lot of impact on me were the speed team of Shelton & Harris out of Baton Rouge. We usually visited with them at contests and got to meet the a lot of other fliers: Larry and Lany Grogan, Phil Bussell, Dub Jett, the team of Husted & Roy, and others. Do you remember the sounds of a Dyna Jet? They would be outlawed today as noise hazards.

DaveSR71 06-28-2010 04:34 PM

RE: Rat Racing Plane kits
 
1 Attachment(s)
Guys

Yes!
When young would sleep anywhere and eat anything to compete!
Mosquitoes, dirt ,sand and all that good stuff!!

Lou
Darrel had a stroke about a month ago.
Has 2 large aneurysm in brain. He is up and about and going to work.
This or next week they are going in to see what can be done.

The red Quicky type rat was built by Darrel.

I remember the Go karts. Never knew that George had done it.

The yellow one Darrel had was originally my Dads and loaned to Darrel after Dad moved on to formula cars.
The Kart , a rare Mc R-1 became mine and is out in the shed.
The engines are in the shop. Mc 91s.

Remember Dyna Jets!!!! HA HA HA!!!!
Would love to start one to scare the neighbor hood to death!!

So this brings us back to Darrel.
I have his old RH Dyna jet that was used in his Dyna Jet powered stunt plane, would do the entire pattern - gently.
Somehow the jet wound up in a pawn shop so I latched on to it to save it.
Dyna Jets are still flown in speed and has exceeded 200mph finally.

People who have never heard a Dyna Jet run missed out.
To me they sound like an electrical power transformer(on a pole) blowing up but non stop and then add the Doppler effect and, well its just plain old wicked! Women, children, birds ,dogs, cats and most grown men are tempted to run in circles and yell and scream when they first hear one.

Lou( or anyone), do you make it to the B.R. Stunt contest?

David

arizona speed flyer 09-06-2010 08:37 PM

RE: Rat Racing Plane kits
 
I flew RR in the 60s using the harters pans and royal rodent and the torp 35 green head... also a fox 36x,,, i am in need ofa couple of harter pans if any of you wish to part with yours... thanks Speed flyer

DaveSR71 09-07-2010 03:31 AM

RE: Rat Racing Plane kits
 
Hey Speedy

Do not know if Harters pans are still in production.
Might try here
B & L HOBBIES
7606 Weymouth Rd., Hammonton, NJ 08037-3404
Harters Speed Pans, T/R Pans, Rev-Up & Top Flite Speed Props, Torque Units and more (Paul Haley) 609-567-9365

Darp pans are being grown on Pet rock farm. scroll to bottom click 'pans'
Scroll down click 'buy pans' for price. These are aluminum not mag.

http://petrockfarm.com/index.html


If you just have to have a Harter and they are NLA get back to me and I can fix you up.

What engine do you plan to use?
In F-40 the K&B 6.5 is current King
Nelson might be a choice or possibly the ST X.40
The light case K&B dykes ring schnurle .40 might be competitive if really set up right

David

arizona speed flyer 09-07-2010 07:23 PM

RE: Rat Racing Plane kits
 
i just returned from my storage unit and found my 60 rat i flew in the NW.. it has a  harters pan with a Fox 36x frozen but it came out of the pan fine... I had had use my grinder to lighten the pan so much that the hold down holes and mounting holes are WAY off for my future F40 and C speed plane.. RATS no use for my only Harters pan.. again any of you that may have one to sell me for my speed planes im building off of plans from my old flying buddy Chis Sackett up in BC Canada... please let me know i any of you can let go of a pan that will work with my new Nelson 40 FIRE.. THANKS

DaveSR71 09-08-2010 02:10 PM

RE: Rat Racing Plane kits
 
Damn Speedy! A new Nelson! And I'm stuck with a clunky old(New) X-40 with a chrome problem.

Miss my 6.5!( hint, Hint ,Hint):D


David

arizona speed flyer 09-08-2010 02:45 PM

RE: Rat Racing Plane kits
 
Talking to my friend Henry Nelson as normal his N Q 40 the Rc pylon motor which has a long stroke is the motor to use.. There are lots of 40s around but many have been run hard and just will not compete with the Nelson Q40... if you call Henry tell him your have contacted me and i sent you to him... He likes to stay up late and will answer his emails very well... Oh I asked him the Rpm range and he said the motor should turn 30 k in the air... Another issue using the Nelson from what others have told me is DO nothing to it... Many speed flyers like to tinker and Henry has made his motors to work vs others who make motors.... it funny one flyer told me that he tried to mod his Nelson and his mods did not work so he was not going to send it back to Henry because Henry would probably not going to fix it. But Henry did but it took a little time to get it back&gt;&gt;&gt;

DaveSR71 09-09-2010 10:09 PM

RE: Rat Racing Plane kits
 
Lou
If your still around check this out.

Charlie Melancon Memorial Control line Aerobatic Contest.

I plan on being there.

David

DaveSR71 09-09-2010 10:11 PM

RE: Rat Racing Plane kits
 
Henry always did sound like an really good guy. killer engines.

Lou Melancon 09-13-2010 01:46 PM

RE: Rat Racing Plane kits
 
Hi SuperTiga,
My dad would be embarassed about having a contest with his name on it, but he would be secretly very pleased. He would be even happier if a lot of fliers showed up to compete.

DaveSR71 09-15-2010 01:02 AM

RE: Rat Racing Plane kits
 
Well Lou
Come on down! or over! or west as the case is!

Your Dad was well liked and respected by all.


David

mytemotors 03-01-2011 10:39 AM

RE: Rat Racing Plane kits
 
I have been reading all the conversations about rat racing in the 60's, brings back a lot of memories. I started flying in 1955 at the ripe old age of 12. Went from a Stanzel ABC trainer up through the usual progression. After about three years, flew contest combat, stunt, and rat race.
Combat was Half Fast and Jerkline Special, stunt was Nobler ( have an ARF Nobler now) and rat race was a Hot Cinders.
Bill Netzeband was a teacher and mentor for me when he lived in St. Louis MO.
He helped me set up the Cinders with a Fox Combat Special with crankcase pressure on a brass piano shaped fuel. We were clocking between 110 and 115 mph. The Jerkline was setup similar with engine and fuel system. It clocked 90 to 100 mph.
Got back into modeling a few years ago, mainly RC, but am building a Fierce Arrow (another Netzeband design) with a Thunderbird waiting.
Question, does anyone know where I can find plans for the Hot Cinders rat racer and the Jerkline Special. Also a source for a 20 inch mag pan?
A lot of the names being mentioned bring back a lot of memories
Keep it up

Jack Lipka

chuck100charles 01-08-2012 11:01 AM

RE: Rat Racing Plane kits
 
What a line-up of famous names, including fliers, planes, engines, and locations! Helps for me to clear up an aging 65 year-old memory. I grew up in Lafayette, Louisiana in the early 1960's and got started with (Who didn't, right) Cox thimble drome planes. That didn't last long- stepped up to a Sterling Ringmaster with a McCoy 35 stunt, then futzed around in combat and rat race. Never amounted to anything serious in competition, but still have happy memories and a peculiar castor oil odor around me. Had a classmate named Coyle Walter who helped build for me and fly with me- he's hiding away somewhere in Arkansas now.
Local names I remember from Lafayette flying at Hamilton Training School field: George Hall, George Crain, Irvin Lauw, and a team that used to come in yearly for the regular meet, from Lake Charles as I remember. They were masters in combat, flew Quickers, Voodoo's, and many of their own designs, including one called the Banshee.
I haven't flown in 40 years, but still love the u/c sport. I have moved into diesel engines (Yeah, even more castor oil mixed with Ether scent) from glows, though I still have a vintage Fox 35 Stunt engine around somewhere. If anybody would promise to use it, I'll give it away for shipping.
I graduated from Lafayette Senior High, class of '64, looking forward to the 50th reunion soon.
If anyone is interested in swapping memories from those halcyon days of yore, give me a whistle at cdsmith46@gmail.com
BTW, looking for a set of plans for a .15 diesel sized rat racer or goodyear racer like they fly in England.

greggles47 01-08-2012 12:53 PM

RE: Rat Racing Plane kits
 
Charles,

There are plenty of plans on RCGroups http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...1530258&page=8

Also Yahoos CLRacing http://groups.yahoo.com/group/clraci...Plans_Archive/

If there are any plans in particular that you want & can't find, give me a yell & I'll see if I can come up with a PDF for you.

Regards

Greg


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