Byrons Original Extra 300 grounded for rebuild
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Byrons Original Extra 300 grounded for rebuild
Ithought someone out there might like to see this done... here's a briefe history on it first:
Iwas passed on this airplane by my Dad a couple years ago, basicly finished yet never was flown. Dad finished her off with the authentic Patty Wagstaff color scheme and decal kit, what a beautiful plane. So Iput an old (old) YS120 in her and what a rocket! Iguess Ihad put about 15-20 flights all in all on the plane last year and started to really worry about the wing mounting system. As seen below, the aluminum bars were going to deteriate over any good amount of time, giving the plane a short life span.
Ifelt the plane was worthy of a rebuild/upgrade, and decided to ground it before anything drastic happened first. Iintend to upgrade the wing joining method to what today would be a typicall tube and sleeve, with anti rotation pins or adjusters. Being the airframe is a nice solid fiberglass shell, this could make the plane last years potentially again.
Here's a couple shots of here prior to grounding, and of the aluminum bar's that join the wing's, failing point.
Iwas passed on this airplane by my Dad a couple years ago, basicly finished yet never was flown. Dad finished her off with the authentic Patty Wagstaff color scheme and decal kit, what a beautiful plane. So Iput an old (old) YS120 in her and what a rocket! Iguess Ihad put about 15-20 flights all in all on the plane last year and started to really worry about the wing mounting system. As seen below, the aluminum bars were going to deteriate over any good amount of time, giving the plane a short life span.
Ifelt the plane was worthy of a rebuild/upgrade, and decided to ground it before anything drastic happened first. Iintend to upgrade the wing joining method to what today would be a typicall tube and sleeve, with anti rotation pins or adjusters. Being the airframe is a nice solid fiberglass shell, this could make the plane last years potentially again.
Here's a couple shots of here prior to grounding, and of the aluminum bar's that join the wing's, failing point.
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RE: Byrons Original Extra 300 grounded for rebuild
Ibegan the rebuild process with the initial idea Imight be able to salvage the existing wings, cut out the aluminum bars, fill in the void and cut a tube socket like any other foam wing Ihave built in the past.
Iwent ahead and took the first step to lock in my decision on this project.. tear that covering off! (Sorry Dad.. it had to happen)
Also, after looking the airframe over prior to tearing it down, Irealized that the ailerons were the old school strip stock solid balsa.. Seems to me those could be increased in size a bit to help the flying characteristics while Im at it.
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RE: Byrons Original Extra 300 grounded for rebuild
Okay, So here Ihave the wings tore down and cleaned up a bit, Ihave measured out what Ifelt whas a decent upgraded size to the Ailerons, and cut them out... Added new trailing edge stock, and an oversized piece to the tip. I think the wing tips may end up slightly larger LE to TE than original, but Ithink that will be Okay, since it was fairly snappy before, It may help stabalize a bit.
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RE: Byrons Original Extra 300 grounded for rebuild
After a fair amount of So~So ish work on the wings, Ihad gotten about ready to tackle the real issue, wing tube.
Ihadthe plane put together and was staring at it... and noticed what seemed to be a warp to the left wing half.. and sure enough, Irealized that BOTH wing panels were bowed very badly.
To make a long story short here, Itried a couple things to straighten it.. Irouted out a groove the length of the panel and epoxied in a strip of ply, propped the wing up on each end (root to tip) and weighted the heck out of the middle of the panel to let it dry in a straight setting.. Let it set a couple days.. It held for a couple hours Ithink.. and just started to bow out again.
Well, change of plans.. Time to explore options for a new set of foam wings! To be honest, Iwas doubting the overall quality of rebuilding the originals anyways, Ithink Iwent overboard on resizing the Ailerons,not to mention they were heavy and more than likely Iwould have destroyed them removing the aluminum bars anyways.
Ihadthe plane put together and was staring at it... and noticed what seemed to be a warp to the left wing half.. and sure enough, Irealized that BOTH wing panels were bowed very badly.
To make a long story short here, Itried a couple things to straighten it.. Irouted out a groove the length of the panel and epoxied in a strip of ply, propped the wing up on each end (root to tip) and weighted the heck out of the middle of the panel to let it dry in a straight setting.. Let it set a couple days.. It held for a couple hours Ithink.. and just started to bow out again.
Well, change of plans.. Time to explore options for a new set of foam wings! To be honest, Iwas doubting the overall quality of rebuilding the originals anyways, Ithink Iwent overboard on resizing the Ailerons,not to mention they were heavy and more than likely Iwould have destroyed them removing the aluminum bars anyways.
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RE: Byrons Original Extra 300 grounded for rebuild
Ifirst called Dad and discussed Foam cutting options. Ihave been kicking the idea around about buying 2 4x8 sheets of the ready available white insulation foam from Home Depot @2 inchthickness (thats thickest they carry on hand) and laminating them together with a light mist of contact cement spray adhesive. Icant see the thin fogged on layer interfering with the hot wire at all. This would give us foam ready to buy on the spot, in town cheaper than order-in, and unlimited thickness.
Iended up locating a few sites that had home made hot wire systems, and decided to give it a go.. Imean what the heck, the all said and done cost would probably come out comparable to ordering a custom cut foam core from someone, and having it shipped Ifigure. And Ican cut whatever Iwant from there on out, right?
Here's what Iput together. RadioShack 12/24v transformer.. $12.99, wire from Cabela's.. ~10$ etc...
Ican try and post some reference links to the sites Iused for reference if anyone wants, but they are easy to find, and most are within RCU here.
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RE: Byrons Original Extra 300 grounded for rebuild
Foam Cutter is ready. Ibought the 2 sheets of 2" thick, 4x8 white insulation foam from Home Depot (14$cheaper per sheet than Lowles down the street! wow) and laminated them. Igot a few good test runs on the new cutter by cutting the foam blank blocks, and found a good heat range on the dial.
(*side note, do not use some sort of craft supply silver wire that the wife offers you prior to buying the real stuff from Cabela's.. you will end up burning both the transformer and the dimmer switch up in a hurry... not that Iknow anything about that..*)
After my first trial run on the first set of blank's (Icut 2 pair for whatever reason..), they were discarded *coughs* and the next pair was brought to the table. Although not a perfect cut, all in all Ithink they are workable. No hesitation what-so-ever cutting through the cement lam. area.
BTW, anyone thinking of foam cutting at home, it is seriously toxic fumes/smoke the melting foam puts off. DObuy and use a respirator.NOT a dust mask.
(*side note, do not use some sort of craft supply silver wire that the wife offers you prior to buying the real stuff from Cabela's.. you will end up burning both the transformer and the dimmer switch up in a hurry... not that Iknow anything about that..*)
After my first trial run on the first set of blank's (Icut 2 pair for whatever reason..), they were discarded *coughs* and the next pair was brought to the table. Although not a perfect cut, all in all Ithink they are workable. No hesitation what-so-ever cutting through the cement lam. area.
BTW, anyone thinking of foam cutting at home, it is seriously toxic fumes/smoke the melting foam puts off. DObuy and use a respirator.NOT a dust mask.
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RE: Byrons Original Extra 300 grounded for rebuild
Happy with the results of the second pair of cut wing cores, Ifeel confident that Ican at least cut better next time as well, should they not work out for whatever reason later on... Its time to do a little Fuse prep, and give the wing aspect a little break for a bit.
First thing, Ineed to remove the bulkhead that is in line with the area the new joining tube sleeve needs to be. It was installed with a 0.5 oz glass cloth, so it took some time. Imanaged to get it out in one piece, and quite clean Imight add Initial thoughts were that the original removed bulkhead had been epoxy soaked already, so definitely cut a new one. Second evaluation's made me realize that the wing tube will be replacing this, so Idont feel a replacement bulkhead is even necessary at this point. (still uncertain, but leaning on not necessary)
Itraced and cut-out some fuse rib re-enforcement's out of balsa for the first layer. It will then be fitted with another layer of 1/16 light ply, and more than likely some carbon fiber either completing the outer layer, or sandwiched between the two.. The inner fuse wing root was not a sharp edge, so Ihad to bevel the edge of the balsa to match. Imay even pin the thing through the fuse, when gluing in in the end.
*sorry, pics are reversed order somehow
First thing, Ineed to remove the bulkhead that is in line with the area the new joining tube sleeve needs to be. It was installed with a 0.5 oz glass cloth, so it took some time. Imanaged to get it out in one piece, and quite clean Imight add Initial thoughts were that the original removed bulkhead had been epoxy soaked already, so definitely cut a new one. Second evaluation's made me realize that the wing tube will be replacing this, so Idont feel a replacement bulkhead is even necessary at this point. (still uncertain, but leaning on not necessary)
Itraced and cut-out some fuse rib re-enforcement's out of balsa for the first layer. It will then be fitted with another layer of 1/16 light ply, and more than likely some carbon fiber either completing the outer layer, or sandwiched between the two.. The inner fuse wing root was not a sharp edge, so Ihad to bevel the edge of the balsa to match. Imay even pin the thing through the fuse, when gluing in in the end.
*sorry, pics are reversed order somehow
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RE: Byrons Original Extra 300 grounded for rebuild
The Rudder seemed a little bulky/blocky to me, and somewhat off profile, so Idecided to make a new one.
Ibasicaly just scetched one out, and scratch'd it out.
Iwill leave it somewhat roughed in shape untill Iget to the covering/paint prep stage, from here.
Ibasicaly just scetched one out, and scratch'd it out.
Iwill leave it somewhat roughed in shape untill Iget to the covering/paint prep stage, from here.
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RE: Byrons Original Extra 300 grounded for rebuild
Back to the Wings...
Isomehow neglected to take photo's of the cutting the tube socket's into the wing core's, but ultimately created a backboard from aluminum square stock, and laid down some 1/4 ply sheeting to get the right height, sharpened one end of the sleeve, and reamed the foam socket out with that. Every few inches, give a good tug to pull the sleeve out and you should take the chunk you were rearming out with the sleeve each time.
Icreated 1/8 light ply reinforcement ribs for the outer end of the tube. After remeasuring everything out, the tube seemed right, set, and glued in place.
Ithen measured out servo bay's, cut them out, and finished them with 1/16 balsa side walls, and 1/8 ply mounting plates. Wing sheeting will top that off, and allow me to route out through the 1/16 sheeting, and maybe 1/32 into the ply plate, to give the servo just the right depth. (thats the theory anyways..)
Isomehow neglected to take photo's of the cutting the tube socket's into the wing core's, but ultimately created a backboard from aluminum square stock, and laid down some 1/4 ply sheeting to get the right height, sharpened one end of the sleeve, and reamed the foam socket out with that. Every few inches, give a good tug to pull the sleeve out and you should take the chunk you were rearming out with the sleeve each time.
Icreated 1/8 light ply reinforcement ribs for the outer end of the tube. After remeasuring everything out, the tube seemed right, set, and glued in place.
Ithen measured out servo bay's, cut them out, and finished them with 1/16 balsa side walls, and 1/8 ply mounting plates. Wing sheeting will top that off, and allow me to route out through the 1/16 sheeting, and maybe 1/32 into the ply plate, to give the servo just the right depth. (thats the theory anyways..)
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RE: Byrons Original Extra 300 grounded for rebuild
Time for a quick rough fit... and if all goes right, prep some sheeting!
I have the fuse Ribs just loose, for reference sake.. I think its looking pretty decent, for building by the seat of the pants, so to speak
Progress just may continue after all.
I have the fuse Ribs just loose, for reference sake.. I think its looking pretty decent, for building by the seat of the pants, so to speak
Progress just may continue after all.
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RE: Byrons Original Extra 300 grounded for rebuild
Ididnt take any photo's of the sheeting process (lucky you guys), but Iused 1/16 balsa sheeting with slow cure finishing resin. Weighted them down for 24 or more hours. Popped them out, trimmed and sanded the edges smooth, and reassembled for another rough fitting.
At this point, Ithink that even with having a less than perfect cut on the cores (the imperfections only effected the schuck side of the cut, sanded a couple high ridges out of the core's) Inow have a brand new buildable set of wings
At this point, Ithink that even with having a less than perfect cut on the cores (the imperfections only effected the schuck side of the cut, sanded a couple high ridges out of the core's) Inow have a brand new buildable set of wings
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RE: Byrons Original Extra 300 grounded for rebuild
Thanks David,
Iwas relooking over the photo's there in the begining, and started thinking they looked a little shabby, myself! hah.
Iam seriously scratch building here. Only the simplest tracing really going on with this one.
Thanks!
Iwas relooking over the photo's there in the begining, and started thinking they looked a little shabby, myself! hah.
Iam seriously scratch building here. Only the simplest tracing really going on with this one.
Thanks!
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RE: Byrons Original Extra 300 grounded for rebuild
Back to the Fuse for a bit...
Ihad been fighting trying to sand the paint off this thing off and on for awhile now. The paint sands off gummy, and would make the sand paper expence go crazy. Sitting the other night pondering, the old razor blade scraping kept lingering in my head.. so what the heck. Holding the blade straight up and down nearly, Scraping fairly hard even, seemed to chip the paint right off while leaving the fiberglass shell nearly unscratched even. So, Icontinued this grusum, torturous task.. for a few hours... taking breaks when either Ineeded to switch blades, or let my fingers rest from the brutal pain after a little bit!
Seriously.. you dont want to have to do this..
Ihad been fighting trying to sand the paint off this thing off and on for awhile now. The paint sands off gummy, and would make the sand paper expence go crazy. Sitting the other night pondering, the old razor blade scraping kept lingering in my head.. so what the heck. Holding the blade straight up and down nearly, Scraping fairly hard even, seemed to chip the paint right off while leaving the fiberglass shell nearly unscratched even. So, Icontinued this grusum, torturous task.. for a few hours... taking breaks when either Ineeded to switch blades, or let my fingers rest from the brutal pain after a little bit!
Seriously.. you dont want to have to do this..
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RE: Byrons Original Extra 300 grounded for rebuild
Icouldnt resist.. All in all this Byrons 300 is not small. That is, untill you place a canopy off a 33% 260 next to it for a moment!
Sheesh!
And.. you guessed it..... more hours of scraping paint....
Sheesh!
And.. you guessed it..... more hours of scraping paint....
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RE: Byrons Original Extra 300 grounded for rebuild
HI
i love it when i get inspired in this hobby to take on a project that falls together in my mind first-and then becomes a labor of loveand that is never a real job
real nice work you are doinglove the foam cutter you put together
with that kind of attention to details i am sure she will fly well
good maintenance practices are the key to keeping your fleet flying for many yearsnice job DAD would be proud
BEST REGARDS TONY
i love it when i get inspired in this hobby to take on a project that falls together in my mind first-and then becomes a labor of loveand that is never a real job
real nice work you are doinglove the foam cutter you put together
with that kind of attention to details i am sure she will fly well
good maintenance practices are the key to keeping your fleet flying for many yearsnice job DAD would be proud
BEST REGARDS TONY
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RE: Byrons Original Extra 300 grounded for rebuild
Thanks fella's,
Everything up to this point had been done over the last few weeks, and am nearly caught up to where Iam with the project currently. Everything seems to be falling together now, and seems at this point, the Byron 300 will fly again. So Idecided to go ahead with the thread here. (Didnt wana post a thread on a FLOP! HAH)
Well, while Iam still scraping paint.. (My fingers hurt) Ithought Id share this with you all.
About 3 weeks ago, Ihad been just getting kinda started on this project. Working in the garage alone one late afternoon, Iwas visited by a friendly neighbor.. Chicken?! This thing just walked right in the garage like he owned the place!
Well, she is kinda good looking bird too... and what the heck, she flies too! Come on up here little fella, tell me if you think this part looks straight...
Everything up to this point had been done over the last few weeks, and am nearly caught up to where Iam with the project currently. Everything seems to be falling together now, and seems at this point, the Byron 300 will fly again. So Idecided to go ahead with the thread here. (Didnt wana post a thread on a FLOP! HAH)
Well, while Iam still scraping paint.. (My fingers hurt) Ithought Id share this with you all.
About 3 weeks ago, Ihad been just getting kinda started on this project. Working in the garage alone one late afternoon, Iwas visited by a friendly neighbor.. Chicken?! This thing just walked right in the garage like he owned the place!
Well, she is kinda good looking bird too... and what the heck, she flies too! Come on up here little fella, tell me if you think this part looks straight...
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RE: Byrons Original Extra 300 grounded for rebuild
Just as a reference to my current projects, Ialso have a unique pattern ship in progress on the Classic pattern forums titled "Turning point of Classic... Zeus 120 Build"For anyone interested.
Also Ihave a Rebuild threadcalled "Reactor Biplane Triple Bypass Surgery" that has some redesign work of mine going on.. Ilike the Reactor Bipe so much, Iwanted to rebuild it stronger, lighter and more evenly balanced. Ithink most of you will like that one too.
-JR
*added another rebuild thread link*
Also Ihave a Rebuild threadcalled "Reactor Biplane Triple Bypass Surgery" that has some redesign work of mine going on.. Ilike the Reactor Bipe so much, Iwanted to rebuild it stronger, lighter and more evenly balanced. Ithink most of you will like that one too.
-JR
*added another rebuild thread link*
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RE: Byrons Original Extra 300 grounded for rebuild
While at a slight slow point of the rebuild, Irealized Idid not make much comment on the wing panel changes Ihave made and intend to make from the Original.
The Original design has a pretty good sweep to the Leading edge. They are double tapered wings, but at least twice or more taper on the Leading edge. This plane flew VERY fast, and though Idid not push its limits too far while it was flying, Icould tell that it was going to be somewhat snappy and unstable at slower stall speeds like the old Cap 21 or Super Chipmunk's.
Iended up cutting out some of that taper to these panels. Idont know the degree's, since Ijust measured out 3/4 inch from the root leading edge, and made the cut down flush with the Trailing edge to reduce the taper. Iam hoping this will give it a little more stability at slower speeds without altering the overall flight characteristics.
The Airfoil remains the same, although Iwill be cutting out Ailerons slightly bigger than Orig. Iimagine them to be right about 50% larger than the original strip aileron balsa stock that was used.
Also, Inever showed the wing core templates that Imade. These do not get any more simplistic. No ramp was made, only a slight longer LE and TE to allow me to start the wire on prior to cutting. This was also a difficult way to cut, alone.
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RE: Byrons Original Extra 300 grounded for rebuild
Well, unfortunatly the old Byron's keeps getting put back on the shelf between other projects. Really, the only reason Ihave not been devoted to work on her until finished, is the fact that Ihave to paint the Fuse. Had this been a wood Fuse, she would have been in the air by now, no question. Also, Idont have a specific power plant to put in her either at moment.
Imanaged to get a little more paint scraped off the other day. (had almost afull day between finishing the last rebuild, and being handed another..)Just some small strips left, and she's ready to get some primer. Iam not setup to paint though, and the few paint guns Ihave, have been sitting around a couple/few years.. Imay end up needing to replace some equipment first.. which will mean delay's even further to complete this thing.... Maybe Iwill get lucky and find someone in the club that likes to paint
Imanaged to get a little more paint scraped off the other day. (had almost afull day between finishing the last rebuild, and being handed another..)Just some small strips left, and she's ready to get some primer. Iam not setup to paint though, and the few paint guns Ihave, have been sitting around a couple/few years.. Imay end up needing to replace some equipment first.. which will mean delay's even further to complete this thing.... Maybe Iwill get lucky and find someone in the club that likes to paint