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Four Star 60 dies on maiden day.

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Old 07-12-2011, 08:44 PM
  #1  
Kmot
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Default Four Star 60 dies on maiden day.

Took my 4*60 out for its maiden flight today. The maiden went great, perfect in fact. The second flight was even better. The third flight of the morning, I lost radio linkup and the airplane was destroyed.

Videos:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GYy-PSfaMA[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wd3Q02aGUF8&feature=related[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVFsWVGXEMo&feature=related[/youtube]
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Old 07-13-2011, 01:56 AM
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AmishWarlord
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Default RE: Four Star 60 dies on maiden day.


ORIGINAL: Kmot

...and the airplane was destroyed.

That's not even close to being "destroyed" That just broken into few large chunks. Easily fixed.

Destroyed; When a RC plane crash results into the airframe turning into 1,000 of pieces no bigger than a dime. In jets this would be a crash and burn.
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Old 07-13-2011, 03:51 AM
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Default RE: Four Star 60 dies on maiden day.

Yes, bummer. Sorry to see that.

Yes, I too imagine that you've repaired worse. Good luck,

Dave Olson
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Old 07-13-2011, 04:21 AM
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AmishWarlord
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Default RE: Four Star 60 dies on maiden day.

Oh and very nice paintjob on that! That trim made the old 4* look really fast!
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Old 07-13-2011, 04:31 AM
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Default RE: Four Star 60 dies on maiden day.

What type of receiver was that? I never saw a yellow one before.
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Old 07-13-2011, 05:00 AM
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AmishWarlord
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Default RE: Four Star 60 dies on maiden day.

Oh don't even think about going after the Orange Rx receiver! I have 5 of them.

Though it should be incased in foam got to keep those $30 receivers away from vibration.
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Old 07-13-2011, 05:03 AM
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Default RE: Four Star 60 dies on maiden day.

After rereading my post, i still see that i said nothing about accusing the receiver. I only asked a question. that was it. nothing else. And i still have not got a answer only a accusing.
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Old 07-13-2011, 05:09 AM
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AmishWarlord
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Default RE: Four Star 60 dies on maiden day.

Just joking with ya there D, but you did pick up on a good probable cause of the crash. I think that's an OrangeRx receiver http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...dProduct=17621 and they are really cheap like I said $25. They don't range check as good as the OEM receivers but they still do OK. However I wouldn't trust their solder joints to vibrations. That receiver should be in foam.

Wont be long before some guys will be on here saying that you should not trust your plane to an $25 receiver, they are junk, you got what you deserved for using that crap instead of a $180 OEM one.

They are OK but they have to be range checked before you use them. Just trash it and buy another one if it fails. and keep it away from vibrations. Any receiver should be kept away from vibrations.

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Old 07-13-2011, 06:07 AM
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Default RE: Four Star 60 dies on maiden day.

First thing I would have done was see if all of the servos still moved correctly. I suspect the battery. You had 2 good flights, and that is good information. I check mine with a loaded voltmeter after a few flights, but not always. I have had hundreds of crashes over 39 years and have almost always found a cause. Pilot error is my most common cause.
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Old 07-13-2011, 07:49 AM
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Default RE: Four Star 60 dies on maiden day.

There is a lot more damage than is evident from the photos I posted. So the question is, is it worth it to try and repair it?

If I repair it, it will require lots of cutting out of damaged wood, then cutting new wood to match, and then gluing it in with reinforcing wood, etcetera. You all know the drill. What I would end up with is an airplane that is heavier than designed from the added wood and epoxy. It may not matter to a Four Star, just sayin'. And the work involved would be extensive. I would also need to strip all the covering off and recover the plane from the ground up so that it does not look like a plane that was wrecked. What would be the point of that? Just to say "I fixed it!" ?

Or would it make more sense to just build another kit from the ground up, and cover it in the same scheme?

I'm still in shell shock a little, so I just don't know yet. I also have not determined the cause of the brown out but opinions are leaning toward Rx battery.
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Old 07-13-2011, 08:12 AM
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Default RE: Four Star 60 dies on maiden day.

Amish, you have made an interesting point about the Rx and vibrations. It appears that my muffler did not suffer crash damage, it came apart in flight. In the last part of a video I have I can notice a sudden increase in engine noise. This would not have caused the crash of course, but it does show that there was a lot of vibration for the screw and backing nut to vibrate loose and come apart. I know the prop was balanced, so I think the two piece nylon motor mount provided by Sig must allow the engine to vibrate a lot. And yes, my Rx was only velcro'd to the upper deck of the fuselage.
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Old 07-13-2011, 08:47 AM
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Default RE: Four Star 60 dies on maiden day.

Kmot,

It doesn't really sound like you are up for the challenge. A lot of us model builders get just as much enjoyment from building as flying. So yes, do it just to say "you did it." If you aren't interested in rebuilding then don't do it. If you are more interested in saving time and money then go for it, build a new one instead.

On a side note, that is sad that was a great looking 4*.

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Old 07-13-2011, 09:27 AM
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Default RE: Four Star 60 dies on maiden day.

Kmot just put that thing up on a self for a week.

Next week it wont look 1/2 as bad.

Ya don't need to strip off and recover the entire plane so it doesn’t look rebuilt. Really the 4-Star is just a plywood box. Use that to your advantage. Just hack off the broken parts of the fuse to the first undamaged former on each side. Build a new section between those and glue into in. Just Monocoat the new section leave the old stuff in place, patch if necessary. Fix that small dent in the wing and saw off and replace those wing hinges with some easy hinges and your back in the air. You'll now have a plane that will never crash again.


P.S.

I know you know all of this already but it's nice to hear. Please remind me when I nail the AH-64 Apache that I'm building into the ground.


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Old 07-13-2011, 11:27 AM
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Default RE: Four Star 60 dies on maiden day.

I just checked my Rx battery. It has about 6.28V standing. When the Rx is switched on, it barely changes the voltage. When I work the three servos in the fuselage the voltage drops about a tenth of a volt.

Something else is happening though. The receiver light is blinking. Normally it is solid. I wonder if that is an indicator that it temporarily lost linkup?
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Old 07-13-2011, 12:34 PM
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Default RE: Four Star 60 dies on maiden day.

It is surely showing the link (or internal circuitry) is not correct in some way. It "can" indicate low voltage during the flight but after the receiver has been turned off and the transmitter turned off as well it should go back solid when everything is turned back on. The blinking is definitely not right. Sorry to see this mishap. Sucks big time.
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Old 07-13-2011, 12:42 PM
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Default RE: Four Star 60 dies on maiden day.

Sounds like the ole' "JR DSM2 Death Roll"... working good before it goes in, and works good after it goes in, now where have I seen this scenerio at..?? In all likely hood, it was bad muffler bearings, they will cause interference everytime...

I hope you can figure it out, that was a very pretty plane..!!
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Old 07-13-2011, 01:32 PM
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Default RE: Four Star 60 dies on maiden day.

Yeh, I tried one of those cheap-o orange imitation rx's also and had the same luck  The ONLY thing they are good for are park fliers and foamies.  They bind and act fine but you get a plane out there at about 100 yards and it's O V E R!   PARK FLYER RX!!!!  Get away from them!  They cost me a really nice Sportster! 
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Old 07-13-2011, 02:16 PM
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Default RE: Four Star 60 dies on maiden day.

Sorry about the loss.

I won't ever use a Spektrum radio (I don't refer to the technology, but the brand name) again after my experience...

Brian
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Old 07-13-2011, 02:27 PM
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Default RE: Four Star 60 dies on maiden day.

you say the orange rx are no good. did you have the satellite rx that goes with it also or just the 6 ch or whatever rx itself. this could make a difference........RON
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Old 07-13-2011, 02:41 PM
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Default RE: Four Star 60 dies on maiden day.

I am not blaming the OrangeRx. I am not blaming anything yet. I am hoping I can find the cause. Speculation does nothing to help.
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Old 07-13-2011, 02:55 PM
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Default RE: Four Star 60 dies on maiden day.


ORIGINAL: Kmot

There is a lot more damage than is evident from the photos I posted. So the question is, is it worth it to try and repair it?

If I repair it, it will require lots of cutting out of damaged wood, then cutting new wood to match, and then gluing it in with reinforcing wood, etcetera. You all know the drill. What I would end up with is an airplane that is heavier than designed from the added wood and epoxy. It may not matter to a Four Star, just sayin'. And the work involved would be extensive. I would also need to strip all the covering off and recover the plane from the ground up so that it does not look like a plane that was wrecked. What would be the point of that? Just to say ''I fixed it!'' ?

Or would it make more sense to just build another kit from the ground up, and cover it in the same scheme?

I'm still in shell shock a little, so I just don't know yet. I also have not determined the cause of the brown out but opinions are leaning toward Rx battery.
I think the answer to that question is up to you. I was buying a Yak from a friend at a good price including servos and engine when he gave me a demo flight. The engine was new and not broken in and had a flame out. He had to land down wind and smashed the landing gear off and into the wing. He dropped another hundred dollars from the price and I bought it. I took it home and looked at it for a few weeks then went into "rebuild" mode. I took off the cover from all the damaged pieces, took out all the broken pieces and rebuilt them from scratch with stronger wood, then covered it back with matching colors. It looked as good as new. I flew it for a couple of years and one day while making a normal landing the wheels caught a rut in the runway and dang if the landing gear didn't break off again. This time without damaging the wing.
Once more I stripped it, rebuilt it with even stronger wood and once more have a great flying low priced airplane. And I was happy to say I did it.
I have some pictures of the last repair. Before During and After

However I just bought a new Sbach and my first Gas engine. I hadn't gotten the engine tuned up nor broken in and after a number of good flights, I ended up having three flame outs in three days. The last one I got careless and stalled out 2 feet above the ground. It landed flat, but tore out the landing gear. The damage didn't look bad, but it was extensive, running throughout the forward part of the fuselage. This time I decided to buy a new airplane (which had just been put on sale at $100 off) rather than spend the next month or two trying to make the broken one look good again.
This is my first gasser and I want to fly.
So the answer to your question is, Do you want to fly or re-build?

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Old 07-13-2011, 03:57 PM
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Default RE: Four Star 60 dies on maiden day.

Some people like me really enjoy and look for planes to rebuild some don't enjoy it as well so the choice would be up to you it looks very rebuildable you may do as mentioned earlier put it up for a few days or a week and it won't look as bad after the shock of the crash wears off and then make your decision as to rebuilding it or not then.
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Old 07-13-2011, 03:59 PM
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Default RE: Four Star 60 dies on maiden day.

Thanks Roy, that is encouraging. In fact, thanks to all of you!

Check this out, I had a brown out:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQTj96Q22Qw[/youtube]
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Old 07-13-2011, 04:31 PM
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Default RE: Four Star 60 dies on maiden day.

I just tried the brown out test and yes I can get it to brown out by switching off the Rx battery. But these OrangeRx must have some later software because the thing instantly is working correctly as soon as I switch the battery back on. Only the light is now blinking but everything else works as normal. As fast as I can switch the battery off and on, the Rx connects and is working. When the plane started down, the engine revved up and down twice. I was holding full up elevator all the time. If it would have reset the plane would have lurched upward suddenly.

So, if there was a battery problem, it stayed in effect for several seconds. Yet today, I cannot get the battery voltage to drop enough to brown out the Rx. I just spent about 5 minutes working the servos constantly, to full travel back and forth. Could not get a brown out to happen.

This is all very perplexing.
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Old 07-13-2011, 04:32 PM
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Default RE: Four Star 60 dies on maiden day.

I just tried the brown out test and yes I can get it to brown out by switching off the Rx battery. But these OrangeRx must have some later software because the thing instantly is working correctly as soon as I switch the battery back on. Only the light is now blinking but everything else works as normal. As fast as I can switch the battery off and on, the Rx connects and is working. When the plane started down, the engine revved up and down twice. I was holding full up elevator all the time. If it would have reset the plane would have lurched upward suddenly.

So, if there was a battery problem, it stayed in effect for several seconds. Yet today, I cannot get the battery voltage to drop enough to brown out the Rx. I just spent about 5 minutes working the servos constantly, to full travel back and forth. Could not get a brown out to happen.

This is all very perplexing.
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