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Too much caution causes crash.

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Old 12-18-2011, 12:43 PM
  #1
rlongenecker
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Default Too much caution causes crash.

Sadly, a club member lost his new 30cc Pawnee ARF yesterday. It was a nice build. and had been maidened by an experienced pilot in the club.
(It was a nice flyer.)
Maybe because it was his first gasser/larger airplane, the owner flew it very tentatively and slowly around the pattern.
It was slow enough to wobble and responded to the controls sluggishly. Several guys shouted out, asking if he needed a hand, but he declined.
It was just a matter of time before it stalled and augered into the ground, which it did about 2 minutes into the flight. What a shame.

The point is - sometimes too much caution will get ya'. The guy is a good pilot with the airplanes he's used to, and could have flown the new one successfully, if not for being too cautious.

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Old 12-18-2011, 01:25 PM
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JeffinTD
 
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Default RE: Too much caution causes crash.

That's too bad. I have the same tendancy with an unfamiliar plane, but I usually go up several mistakes high and see how it behaves as it approaches stall, and what it does when it stalls.

At a float fly a while back a gas Pawnee also stalled and went in.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jgO3...e_gdata_player
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Old 12-18-2011, 04:19 PM
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Default RE: Too much caution causes crash.

It seens that something wrong happen , like a servo, or linkage failare.
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Old 12-18-2011, 08:22 PM
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Default RE: Too much caution causes crash.

Yep... too often if one flies a plane like he does one that's in the hanger, the one in the air wont make it back to the hanger.
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Old 12-19-2011, 06:21 AM
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scale only 4 me
 
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Default RE: Too much caution causes crash.


Quote:
ORIGINAL: rlongenecker

Sadly, a club member lost his new 30cc Pawnee ARF yesterday. It was a nice build. and had been maidened by an experienced pilot in the club.
(It was a nice flyer.)
Maybe because it was his first gasser/larger airplane, the owner flew it very tentatively and slowly around the pattern.
It was slow enough to wobble and responded to the controls sluggishly. Several guys shouted out, asking if he needed a hand, but he declined.
It was just a matter of time before it stalled and augered into the ground, which it did about 2 minutes into the flight. What a shame.

The point is - sometimes too much caution will get ya'. The guy is a good pilot with the airplanes he's used to, and could have flown the new one successfully, if not for being too cautious.

Why was there not an "experienced pilot" spotting for the guy if he didn't have the confidence to maiden it in the first place. Seams a little whisper in his ear "give some speed" would have saved the plane. I've seen this same scenario fall out at our club,, An "A" pilot takes it up, trims it, lands it, tells the guy it flies great,, next flight the guy is out there on his own and stuffs it in.

To often these days,, guys are in a hurry to fly something over their head. My feelings are,,, If you can't maiden the plane yourself,, you're not ready to fly that plane.
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Old 12-19-2011, 06:35 AM
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Default RE: Too much caution causes crash.


While I am very sorry to hear about the loss, flying that slow isn't cautious - it is inexperienced.

Like someone posted, I wish someone had whispered in the pilots ear that they needed to pick up the airspeed.

Cautious might be flying final too hot. Being cautious would be flying too fast in order to avoid stalling.
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Old 12-19-2011, 11:08 AM
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rlongenecker
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Default RE: Too much caution causes crash.

Scale and Skidman, you're both right, of course.
Rob
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Old 12-19-2011, 12:03 PM
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Default RE: Too much caution causes crash.


Quote:
ORIGINAL: scale only 4 me


Quote:
ORIGINAL: rlongenecker

Sadly, a club member lost his new 30cc Pawnee ARF yesterday. It was a nice build. and had been maidened by an experienced pilot in the club.
(It was a nice flyer.)
Maybe because it was his first gasser/larger airplane, the owner flew it very tentatively and slowly around the pattern.
It was slow enough to wobble and responded to the controls sluggishly. Several guys shouted out, asking if he needed a hand, but he declined.
It was just a matter of time before it stalled and augered into the ground, which it did about 2 minutes into the flight. What a shame.

The point is - sometimes too much caution will get ya'. The guy is a good pilot with the airplanes he's used to, and could have flown the new one successfully, if not for being too cautious.

Why was there not an ''experienced pilot'' spotting for the guy if he didn't have the confidence to maiden it in the first place. Seams a little whisper in his ear ''give some speed'' would have saved the plane. I've seen this same scenario fall out at our club,, An ''A'' pilot takes it up, trims it, lands it, tells the guy it flies great,, next flight the guy is out there on his own and stuffs it in.

To often these days,, guys are in a hurry to fly something over their head. My feelings are,,, If you can't maiden the plane yourself,, you're not ready to fly that plane.
AMEN, I belive the same thing, last thing i need is to chance someone else crashing my plane when I could just do it myself.
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Old 12-20-2011, 07:49 AM
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Default RE: Too much caution causes crash.

scale only is right to an extent. I fly with some great pilots though that are so nervous on the maiden it's better to have a buddy do it. Maybe it's a confidence issue. but once they know it will fly and it's trimmed. Most of the nerves go away. Or as my friend Devon says" If it has a problem I want the best at the sticks". "He has a better chance of saving it".

david
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Old 12-25-2011, 03:18 PM
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jetmech05
 
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Default RE: Too much caution causes crash.

As I have often heard in full scale speed and altitude is life....without altitude you're not going to glide....without airspeed you can't get altitude.......
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Old 12-25-2011, 04:53 PM
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Default RE: Too much caution causes crash.

I've heard it said altitude, airspeed and brains: always have two of the three.
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Old 12-30-2011, 12:39 AM
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Default RE: Too much caution causes crash.

Quote:
ORIGINAL: JeffinTD

I've heard it said altitude, airspeed and brains: always have two of the three.
Good one!

Both my aircraft I own and fly are discontinued and very hard to replace. One of them I rebuilt and modified because I bought the plane used and it wasn't in flying condition at the time. One is 4 years old and the other is about 12 years old. Both scale WWI aircraft with many scale details and scratch parts, and both pilot heads turn with the operation of the rudder.

When I fly I don't take chances and I always do a pre-flight with my spotter before every flight, and so far I haven't goofed with the transmitter. At my last Warbird Demo I attended I had about 3 people tell me I should make a "hanger queen" out of one of them, but I can't. It looks too good on the ground and in the air. Both my planes should be in the next issue of Model Aviation, so keep your eyes open for the picture. When you see them you will know what I mean.

If I am too careful, then I'll be scared. If I'm too scared then it's time for me to quit flying. Focus on the aircraft you are flying and what it is doing. When I do this, worrying about crashing or damaging my aircraft doesn't seem to be a issue so much.

It can be a darn if I do, darn if I don't kind of situation for me. I look at one of my planes and I tell my self that it needs to be flown. Once I get it up in the air, I then ask myself why did I do that? What goes up, must come down.

Then I work on having the best landing ever when my flying is done. Then I do the insane thing all over again if you know what I mean.

We all go through these crazy fazes in the hobby. It all makes us better in the end I think. [&:]


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Old 12-30-2011, 11:40 AM
  #13
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Default RE: Too much caution causes crash.

That vid of the floatplane crash is "funny". Looks to me like it was a very nervour/inexperienced pilot....flying very far upwind over a full scale float plane on the water...CRAZY. It amazes me how some people have no concern for safety. What if the model came down into the cabin of the full scale. Or maybe some boaters... To me it seemed like he was just too far out, nervous and became dissoriented.

As for the plane this post is about. At least it was an ARF and not a long and detailed scale full build. Easy enough to replace...except for the bucks involved...which still stings...

Steve
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Old 12-30-2011, 12:35 PM
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Default RE: Too much caution causes crash.


Quote:
ORIGINAL: loser

That vid of the floatplane crash is ''funny''. Looks to me like it was a very nervour/inexperienced pilot....flying very far upwind over a full scale float plane on the water...CRAZY. It amazes me how some people have no concern for safety. What if the model came down into the cabin of the full scale. Or maybe some boaters... To me it seemed like he was just too far out, nervous and became dissoriented.

As for the plane this post is about. At least it was an ARF and not a long and detailed scale full build. Easy enough to replace...except for the bucks involved...which still stings...

Steve

Wind was really funky that day. Blowing one direction to our west, and a different direction to our east. The plane flew really pitch sensitive, and I think he thought slowing a bit might help get a handle in it.

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Old 12-31-2011, 07:41 PM
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Default RE: Too much caution causes crash.

Once you commit to fly and leave the ground, make it your best flight ever!
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Old 01-01-2012, 02:27 AM
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: Flak

Once you commit to fly and leave the ground, make it your best flight ever!

Amen.


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Old 01-05-2012, 07:31 AM
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Default RE: Too much caution causes crash.

What no pictures? How can we really say what happened without video for the armchair pilots to critique? The first thing I do on a maiden is reach for the sky as fast as I can (with out stalling it of course) and I try to balance on the slightly nose heavy side, low rates, and about 20% expo on all the controls. Pick a day when the wind is low, start at the end of the runway and do a couple of fast taxi runs, then back to the end again take a deep breath and throttle up gradually and wait for it to build up airspeed. I don't understand these guys that start in the middle of the runway ram the throttle and then try to yank it off the ground because they are running out of runway. [X(] It always hurt to crash one though no matter what the reason. Having a buddy to work the trims for you helps too.
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Old 02-26-2012, 02:58 PM
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Default RE: Too much caution causes crash.

Hi To All

thanks for the insights , i had similar thoughts but after i tried to fly. also had an enperienced pilot put my plane up and glad i got a video. had another pilot stand with me and had a great flight with a better landing. but wasn't quick enough when trying to use our crossstrip (same as the video). its all experience and i hope to use that when I'm finished re-building. meanwhile continue to practise with my HUSTLER. see video ; youtube" bucker 1/4 scale test"

John Lansdowne,
Mackay- Australia
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