No more ARF's for me
#201
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RE: No more ARF's for me
ORIGINAL: MartyH
Contact SIG about Koverall on your 120 before you go any further. There should have been a note in your manual to absolutely NOT use fabric covering on the 4 Star 120 as the Monokote type covering is a major structural component of that wing since it has no sheeting. The wing will twist and deform in flight if you simply replace fabric for the heat shrink plastic covering.
ORIGINAL: swify
I was looking at the Sig website a while back, didn't see many kits on it. I have a 4*star 120 kit that I bought probably 18 years ago, started to build it, then ended up moving and and quit flying for 14 years. I recently started working on it again as I took up flying once more. Used koverall on it and just in the process of painting it with dope. I have an OS 120 surpass pumped engine that I bought in 1994 and is still in the box to power it. Should be ready to go in a month or so.
I was looking at the Sig website a while back, didn't see many kits on it. I have a 4*star 120 kit that I bought probably 18 years ago, started to build it, then ended up moving and and quit flying for 14 years. I recently started working on it again as I took up flying once more. Used koverall on it and just in the process of painting it with dope. I have an OS 120 surpass pumped engine that I bought in 1994 and is still in the box to power it. Should be ready to go in a month or so.
Contact SIG about Koverall on your 120 before you go any further. There should have been a note in your manual to absolutely NOT use fabric covering on the 4 Star 120 as the Monokote type covering is a major structural component of that wing since it has no sheeting. The wing will twist and deform in flight if you simply replace fabric for the heat shrink plastic covering.
#202
Thread Starter
RE: No more ARF's for me
It does. The fabric covering is much stronger than the plastic will ever be, and more resistant to punctures and tears.
PICS or it didnt happen, I want to see what the 120 looks like in fabric.
#203
RE: No more ARF's for me
ORIGINAL: shamalam
Just started flying/crashing trainers last June, and have done enough aircraft repair to know I'd rather be flyin' than fixin.' Recently got a Sig 4-star ARF, then read this thread; hope I didn't get a lemon. I bought it based on hearing Sig is a good company, but the manual says something to the effect that, ''Since this plane was constructed in a part of the world where there's more humidity, you might have to tighten covering over wood that has shrunk,'' but it didn't also say ''We built this plane with as little glue as possible ...'' guess I'll call Sig to see what they recommend. Again, rather be fliyin' than fixin.'
Just started flying/crashing trainers last June, and have done enough aircraft repair to know I'd rather be flyin' than fixin.' Recently got a Sig 4-star ARF, then read this thread; hope I didn't get a lemon. I bought it based on hearing Sig is a good company, but the manual says something to the effect that, ''Since this plane was constructed in a part of the world where there's more humidity, you might have to tighten covering over wood that has shrunk,'' but it didn't also say ''We built this plane with as little glue as possible ...'' guess I'll call Sig to see what they recommend. Again, rather be fliyin' than fixin.'
You are then a perfect candidate for kit or scratch building. Build it once and then just go fly. No more fixing on that plane.
With every ARF there is lots to fix before you fly and then everytime you fly as new snags develop from use because of poor original manufacturing.
Ultimately that takes a lot more time and effort than just building it yourself once to airworthy standard.
#204
Thread Starter
RE: No more ARF's for me
For any one interested, there is a build thread I started on the Four Star 120 kit Sig sent me. So far the left wing is built, working on the right wing, and it is well glued at this point
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_11254485/tm.htm
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_11254485/tm.htm
#205
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RE: No more ARF's for me
Just putting the final coat of color dope on the 4*120now, had some extra cub yellow so used that over a white base coat looks notto bad, will take some pics and post them.
#206
Thread Starter
RE: No more ARF's for me
That reminds me, I have some more pics of my build that I need to post. I have the wings assembled ready to join, and the tips are laminated ready to carve, fuse dry fitted so I can do my mods on it for the rear servo install for the elevator.
Looking forward to see a fabric covered 4*.
Looking forward to see a fabric covered 4*.
#207
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RE: No more ARF's for me
You are then a perfect candidate for kit or scratch building. Build it once and then just go fly. No more fixing on that plane.
With every ARF there is lots to fix before you fly and then everytime you fly as new snags develop from use because of poor original manufacturing.
Ultimately that takes a lot more time and effort than just building it yourself once to airworthy standard.
With every ARF there is lots to fix before you fly and then everytime you fly as new snags develop from use because of poor original manufacturing.
Ultimately that takes a lot more time and effort than just building it yourself once to airworthy standard.
I find it quite funny when people with the same ARF that I have flown for a year buy one and then replace the undercarriage, hardware, and covering before they to fly it. I think that there are bound to be good ARFs and bad ARFs but funnily enough both of mine have been very cheap!
Did I just get lucky? no because most of my club-mates all fly ARFs and they usually need little or no modification.
#208
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RE: No more ARF's for me
ORIGINAL: FLYMAD
I have 2 ARFs and both of them have been amazing. They are both made by world models and my experience with them have been great. Absolutely no reinforcing was required and they are both quite light which means lower airspeed to gain the required lift, so they land slow and fly brilliantly . They are both very strong and are made entirely from lite ply and balsa. the fuselage construction on both of them is entirely lite ply The 40 sized high wing trainer is at a total flying weight of 1.6kgs where the low wing is still light at 2.2. I have had a couple of prangs with the high wing and got the opportunity to rebuild them which was immensely skill building and has prepared my well for when I want to build a kit. In general I think that ARFs take a lot of guesswork out of a plane for beginners , For example a lot of kits don't include any hardware or covering.
I find it quite funny when people with the same ARF that I have flown for a year buy one and then replace the undercarriage, hardware, and covering before they to fly it. I think that there are bound to be good ARFs and bad ARFs but funnily enough both of mine have been very cheap!
Did I just get lucky? no because most of my club-mates all fly ARFs and they usually need little or no modification.
You are then a perfect candidate for kit or scratch building. Build it once and then just go fly. No more fixing on that plane.
With every ARF there is lots to fix before you fly and then everytime you fly as new snags develop from use because of poor original manufacturing.
Ultimately that takes a lot more time and effort than just building it yourself once to airworthy standard.
With every ARF there is lots to fix before you fly and then everytime you fly as new snags develop from use because of poor original manufacturing.
Ultimately that takes a lot more time and effort than just building it yourself once to airworthy standard.
I find it quite funny when people with the same ARF that I have flown for a year buy one and then replace the undercarriage, hardware, and covering before they to fly it. I think that there are bound to be good ARFs and bad ARFs but funnily enough both of mine have been very cheap!
Did I just get lucky? no because most of my club-mates all fly ARFs and they usually need little or no modification.
Win-Win..!!
#209
My Feedback: (21)
RE: No more ARF's for me
I for one am super glad we have ARFs. I would not be flying right now if I had to build. BTW, I have noticed some have to do a lot to their ARFs and others very minimal. I have done very little to any of mine and one I have flown almost 600 flights and some of the flights have been grueling. [X(]
I did get one ARF that was designed well, but very poor workmanship. For what I paid I just don't have too much room to complain a lot. I took care of the issues and it has been a fantastic 200 (about 300.00 after repairs) dollar 30cc bird! I have less in it than some of my glow planes.
I did get one ARF that was designed well, but very poor workmanship. For what I paid I just don't have too much room to complain a lot. I took care of the issues and it has been a fantastic 200 (about 300.00 after repairs) dollar 30cc bird! I have less in it than some of my glow planes.
#211
Senior Member
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RE: No more ARF's for me
ORIGINAL: Luchnia
I for one am super glad we have ARFs. I would not be flying right now if I had to build.
I for one am super glad we have ARFs. I would not be flying right now if I had to build.
It has never been easier to build your own models with the advent of Super Glue, iron on coverings, pre engineered hardware that is dirt cheap and also a vast array of building materials [including cardboard and coroplast] that are relatively inexpensive.
#216
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RE: No more ARF's for me
I do not "buy into" this statement. If you had no other choice and if you wanted to fly badly enough, I'm sure you would be able to build a plane that you could have fun with. Even if it was a "lowly" FreeFlight or ControlLine plane, I'm pretty sure that the average guy could provide for himself...just like he always had to.
It has never been easier to build your own models with the advent of Super Glue, iron on coverings, pre engineered hardware that is dirt cheap and also a vast array of building materials [including cardboard and coroplast] that are relatively inexpensive.
It has never been easier to build your own models with the advent of Super Glue, iron on coverings, pre engineered hardware that is dirt cheap and also a vast array of building materials [including cardboard and coroplast] that are relatively inexpensive.
#219
RE: No more ARF's for me
[/quote]
combatpigg I think that ARFs ( I mean good quality reputable ARFs) are only a good thing, It opens a door for many people to enter the hobby that would otherwise be limited...
[/quote]
Ah, now we're getting somewhere.
Just exactly what is "the hobby"?
Is it operating an RC plane? Is it constructing an RC plane? Is it a combination of crafting a plane and then flying it?
If flying it is all that the hobby is to you, enjoy your ARF. Leave the rest to the aircraft/aviation enthusiasts. You are simply an operator. May as well just get a toy foamy and have at it.
If you are an enthusiast, there is a lot more to it than just operating the plane.
Same goes for full size aviation. Some are happy to just go out and fly. Others want a larger experience and actually construct a plane and then operate it.
What you do will depend on what experience you want and what you are willing to accept to achieve it. For me, I realize that ARFs are here to stay while personally given their characteristics, they have no place for me. I want to fly something which I created - even from design inception at times. If it requires building or assembly from a kit, I know that the fanatic degree of accuracy and high standard for top end materials will not be achieved by the compromise of a factory assembled ARF which is driven by profit. It could be much better, at the cost of profit. That's not liekly to happen.
IMO, all you guys who are apologists for ARFs are fooling yourself on their structural integrity. I've seen lots of them and even tried a few. Regardless of claimed completeness or high grade construction or hardware, including that thousand buck+ 1/3 size CAP 232, all were severely lacking. They did not fuilfil the advertised promise.
And guess who gets called on when those hobby entrants who must have an ARF call when it needs to be corrected for assembly or fixed? And guess who has the tools? Not the other ARFers, that's for sure.
combatpigg I think that ARFs ( I mean good quality reputable ARFs) are only a good thing, It opens a door for many people to enter the hobby that would otherwise be limited...
[/quote]
Ah, now we're getting somewhere.
Just exactly what is "the hobby"?
Is it operating an RC plane? Is it constructing an RC plane? Is it a combination of crafting a plane and then flying it?
If flying it is all that the hobby is to you, enjoy your ARF. Leave the rest to the aircraft/aviation enthusiasts. You are simply an operator. May as well just get a toy foamy and have at it.
If you are an enthusiast, there is a lot more to it than just operating the plane.
Same goes for full size aviation. Some are happy to just go out and fly. Others want a larger experience and actually construct a plane and then operate it.
What you do will depend on what experience you want and what you are willing to accept to achieve it. For me, I realize that ARFs are here to stay while personally given their characteristics, they have no place for me. I want to fly something which I created - even from design inception at times. If it requires building or assembly from a kit, I know that the fanatic degree of accuracy and high standard for top end materials will not be achieved by the compromise of a factory assembled ARF which is driven by profit. It could be much better, at the cost of profit. That's not liekly to happen.
IMO, all you guys who are apologists for ARFs are fooling yourself on their structural integrity. I've seen lots of them and even tried a few. Regardless of claimed completeness or high grade construction or hardware, including that thousand buck+ 1/3 size CAP 232, all were severely lacking. They did not fuilfil the advertised promise.
And guess who gets called on when those hobby entrants who must have an ARF call when it needs to be corrected for assembly or fixed? And guess who has the tools? Not the other ARFers, that's for sure.
#220
My Feedback: (21)
RE: No more ARF's for me
ORIGINAL: combatpigg
I do not ''buy into'' this statement. If you had no other choice and if you wanted to fly badly enough, I'm sure you would be able to build a plane that you could have fun with. Even if it was a ''lowly'' FreeFlight or ControlLine plane, I'm pretty sure that the average guy could provide for himself...just like he always had to.
It has never been easier to build your own models with the advent of Super Glue, iron on coverings, pre engineered hardware that is dirt cheap and also a vast array of building materials [including cardboard and coroplast] that are relatively inexpensive.
ORIGINAL: Luchnia
I for one am super glad we have ARFs. I would not be flying right now if I had to build.
I for one am super glad we have ARFs. I would not be flying right now if I had to build.
It has never been easier to build your own models with the advent of Super Glue, iron on coverings, pre engineered hardware that is dirt cheap and also a vast array of building materials [including cardboard and coroplast] that are relatively inexpensive.
I am flying because someone cared enough to build ARFs for folks like me. Oh, I also buy ARD (Almost Ready to Drive) automobiles because I don't like to build cars to drive. The same thing goes with my mower, farm tractor, fishing gear, etc., I prefer them ready to go instead of building them.
#221
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RE: No more ARF's for me
all you guys who are apologists for ARFs are fooling yourself on their structural integrity.
#222
Senior Member
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RE: No more ARF's for me
ORIGINAL: Luchnia
I stick by the basic premise that I would not fly if I did not have an ARF. If I had no other choice and there were no ARFs made, the probability is extremely high that I would not be flying at all. There is one option and that is that I would buy a plane from someone that had built it. I have little to no interest/desire in building an RC plane. Maybe people dislike ARFs so much that they would lke to see the planet cleared of them.
I am flying because someone cared enough to build ARFs for folks like me. Oh, I also buy ARD (Almost Ready to Drive) automobiles because I don't like to build cars to drive. The same thing goes with my mower, farm tractor, fishing gear, etc., I prefer them ready to go instead of building them.
ORIGINAL: combatpigg
I do not ''buy into'' this statement. If you had no other choice and if you wanted to fly badly enough, I'm sure you would be able to build a plane that you could have fun with. Even if it was a ''lowly'' FreeFlight or ControlLine plane, I'm pretty sure that the average guy could provide for himself...just like he always had to.
It has never been easier to build your own models with the advent of Super Glue, iron on coverings, pre engineered hardware that is dirt cheap and also a vast array of building materials [including cardboard and coroplast] that are relatively inexpensive.
ORIGINAL: Luchnia
I for one am super glad we have ARFs. I would not be flying right now if I had to build.
I for one am super glad we have ARFs. I would not be flying right now if I had to build.
It has never been easier to build your own models with the advent of Super Glue, iron on coverings, pre engineered hardware that is dirt cheap and also a vast array of building materials [including cardboard and coroplast] that are relatively inexpensive.
I am flying because someone cared enough to build ARFs for folks like me. Oh, I also buy ARD (Almost Ready to Drive) automobiles because I don't like to build cars to drive. The same thing goes with my mower, farm tractor, fishing gear, etc., I prefer them ready to go instead of building them.
If you are convinced that the explosion in ARF popularity is due to guys not having enough time or enough skill to build their own planes..continue to march.
Just ONCE I'd like to see ONE honest man step forward and admit that he goes the ARF route because he spends too much time watching TV, playing video games and playing on the internet.
#223
RE: No more ARF's for me
Lets defy what a hobbyist is, one that fly's planes and does not build or repair.What is a modeler one who repairs,builds,fly's to me that is the difference.As for arf's i believe they have a place,When i started this hobby 20yrs ago i purchased a hobbico trainer for my first plane i had no experience in building.It gave me a good foundation to get to know the parts of the aircraft.Then i purchased another hobbico arf a low wing trainer.I was considered the arf guy at the club they were built good and flew well.My 3rd plane was a great planes super sportster a kit to build,my wife bought it for me.When i opened up the box and pulled out the plans i went wow how will i ever build this thing.I never had any experience building from plans,but i knew i had to build it my wife paid the money for this kit.Well i can tell you i did build this kit with no help from anyone i did it all myself.When i was done with this kit i was proud of my achievements.I could never have done it without building those 2 arf kits.So i like arf kits as well.For those that say all arfkits are cheaply built they don't know what they are talking about.I now have built 18 planes a few arfs and many kits.Some of the kits i have buit have not had the best quality in wood or design.And i highly recommend building a plane from a kit there's nothing like it.You feel on top of the world when you finish the job,then go out to watch it lift off the ground into the air and fly so nicely.All i can say to those of you who do not learn to build yourown kits you don't know whatyour missing!The satisfaction it gives you is incredible!
#224
RE: No more ARF's for me
ORIGINAL: do335a
Rather be flying than fixing?
You are then a perfect candidate for kit or scratch building. Build it once and then just go fly. No more fixing on that plane.
With every ARF there is lots to fix before you fly and then everytime you fly as new snags develop from use because of poor original manufacturing.
Ultimately that takes a lot more time and effort than just building it yourself once to airworthy standard.
ORIGINAL: shamalam
Just started flying/crashing trainers last June, and have done enough aircraft repair to know I'd rather be flyin' than fixin.' Recently got a Sig 4-star ARF, then read this thread; hope I didn't get a lemon. I bought it based on hearing Sig is a good company, but the manual says something to the effect that, ''Since this plane was constructed in a part of the world where there's more humidity, you might have to tighten covering over wood that has shrunk,'' but it didn't also say ''We built this plane with as little glue as possible ...'' guess I'll call Sig to see what they recommend. Again, rather be fliyin' than fixin.'
Just started flying/crashing trainers last June, and have done enough aircraft repair to know I'd rather be flyin' than fixin.' Recently got a Sig 4-star ARF, then read this thread; hope I didn't get a lemon. I bought it based on hearing Sig is a good company, but the manual says something to the effect that, ''Since this plane was constructed in a part of the world where there's more humidity, you might have to tighten covering over wood that has shrunk,'' but it didn't also say ''We built this plane with as little glue as possible ...'' guess I'll call Sig to see what they recommend. Again, rather be fliyin' than fixin.'
You are then a perfect candidate for kit or scratch building. Build it once and then just go fly. No more fixing on that plane.
With every ARF there is lots to fix before you fly and then everytime you fly as new snags develop from use because of poor original manufacturing.
Ultimately that takes a lot more time and effort than just building it yourself once to airworthy standard.
I started in this hobby in 1970, when I was 20. 42 years went by, and I can tell you one thing. Most of my life the planes that I saw crash where kit-built and not ARF:-) ARFs is a relatively recent thing.
Yes, kit builders screw up nicely too. I remember a kit built warplane that went in because some hinges were forgotten to be glued in. It flew for a while, and then, before having a chance to land, the owner saw it became kit again... In other cases I saw wings folding, and parts abandon the aircraft. I even saw the bottom covering of a model fly off...
I saw horrible kit built examples. So, if you think for a moment that all people build nice kit models, or safe to fly models, or structurally safe models, or attractive models, think again:-)
Gerry
This thread is going on forever.... Let;'s discuss something we all can easily agree on like, maybe religion, politics or guns:-) Or the kind of oil that is best for our power plants, or if electrics are better than anything else on the face of earth, or what radio is really best. Oh, I know, let's agree on what the average American looks like:-)
#225
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RE: No more ARF's for me
Lets defy what a hobbyist is, one that fly's planes and does not build or repair.What is a modeler one who repairs,builds,fly's to me that is the difference.As for arf's i believe they have a place,When i started this hobby 20yrs ago i purchased a hobbico trainer for my first plane i had no experience in building.It gave me a good foundation to get to know the parts of the aircraft.Then i purchased another hobbico arf a low wing trainer.I was considered the arf guy at the club they were built good and flew well.My 3rd plane was a great planes super sportster a kit to build,my wife bought it for me.When i opened up the box and pulled out the plans i went wow how will i ever build this thing.I never had any experience building from plans,but i knew i had to build it my wife paid the money for this kit.Well i can tell you i did build this kit with no help from anyone i did it all myself.When i was done with this kit i was proud of my achievements.I could never have done it without building those 2 arf kits.So i like arf kits as well.For those that say all arf kits are cheaply built they don't know what they are talking about.I now have built 18 planes a few arfs and many kits.Some of the kits i have buit have not had the best quality in wood or design.And i highly recommend building a plane from a kit there's nothing like it.You feel on top of the world when you finish the job,then go out to watch it lift off the ground into the air and fly so nicely.All i can say to those of you who do not learn to build your own kits you don't know what your missing!The satisfaction it gives you is incredible!