Shot Down
10-21-2004, 03:07 PM
#226
Senior Member
My Feedback: (6)
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Los Alamos,
NM
Posts: 287
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Shot Down
ORIGINAL: MormonMike
Daren, How do you think I keep in shape to fly RC, And no, the girls dont stand around, they are trained to 1: program the 9CA to the correct plane and 2: pre-flight and start up the engine [ following all saftey rules] then hand me the TX. They are also excellent retrievers for getting deadstiks at the end of the runway. AND to add insult to injury, [yours of course] they both clear out the Mazda and put all the flight gear away. All I have to do is buy them a nice lunch or dinner and spend a few hours at the mall with them. Us guys CAN be sucessful if we just know what the wives want.
MM.
Daren, How do you think I keep in shape to fly RC, And no, the girls dont stand around, they are trained to 1: program the 9CA to the correct plane and 2: pre-flight and start up the engine [ following all saftey rules] then hand me the TX. They are also excellent retrievers for getting deadstiks at the end of the runway. AND to add insult to injury, [yours of course] they both clear out the Mazda and put all the flight gear away. All I have to do is buy them a nice lunch or dinner and spend a few hours at the mall with them. Us guys CAN be sucessful if we just know what the wives want.
MM.
Daren
10-21-2004, 03:14 PM
#227
Member
My Feedback: (4)
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: New Phily,
PA
Posts: 68
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Shot Down
ORIGINAL: mr_matt
I think you would also get to find out how good your homeowners policy coverage is.
ORIGINAL: tango28charlie
....if I had a senior moment and accidentally powered up my TX and shot someone else down, I'd apologize to them. If they were the understanding sort like me, I'd help them build a new model, or give them parts for one, or let them use one of my planes until theirs was fixed, but I would not expect them to start jumping up and down like a raving lunatic demanding that I pay several thousand dollars
....if I had a senior moment and accidentally powered up my TX and shot someone else down, I'd apologize to them. If they were the understanding sort like me, I'd help them build a new model, or give them parts for one, or let them use one of my planes until theirs was fixed, but I would not expect them to start jumping up and down like a raving lunatic demanding that I pay several thousand dollars
I think you would also get to find out how good your homeowners policy coverage is.
Is this what this "Hobby" has come to? I have read this whole thread and I agree with some and disagree with others, I will not call any names nor make any derrogatory remarks but if I have read the above post correctly, what are you saying?
What if said person has no homeowners? and doesnt have the money to pay you for your loss, what then?
10-21-2004, 03:22 PM
#228
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Jewett, NY,
Posts: 2,218
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Shot Down
Is this what this "Hobby" has come to? I have read this whole thread and I agree with some and disagree with others, I will not call any names nor make any derrogatory remarks but if I have read the above post correctly, what are you saying?
What if said person has no homeowners? and doesnt have the money to pay you for your loss, what then?
What if said person has no homeowners? and doesnt have the money to pay you for your loss, what then?
If you've read the whole thread then you can see that it boils done to Liability!!! The only answer to your question is be prepared to make payment for the x number of years
. Thats why I think its important to come up with some alternatives (other then insurance) to help protect all Club members.But as you can see this thread seems to have run its course now that the bickering is over
10-21-2004, 03:31 PM
#229
RE: Shot Down
This thread is like the FLU It starts off small- Rages for about a week, makes you want to puke- And then leaves you feeling real crappy for a week after its gone.....
10-21-2004, 03:35 PM
#231
Member
My Feedback: (4)
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: New Phily,
PA
Posts: 68
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Shot Down
Oh I agree that there needs to be some official stance on this to protect ALL modelers no matter if there flying a $100.00 park flyer or a $20,000.00 jet, the thing that gets me is the attitude some people have that said person will leave the field without there vehicle, beaten up etc.... this is all so much BS that its funny and at the same time its alarming is it really worth going to jail over an airplane loss that was an accident?
If it was an intentional shoot down well that a whole different ball game right there.
If it was an intentional shoot down well that a whole different ball game right there.
10-21-2004, 03:44 PM
#232
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Jewett, NY,
Posts: 2,218
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Shot Down
SukhoiPilot,
You have to realize that this is RCU not real life. People tend to express opinions much more forcefully on these boards then in real life .... Then again maybe some are serious who knows
The funny part is that after the bickering ends nobody seems to have any ideas how to address this concern. Shootdowns aren't the only issue by a long shot. Nor are turbine jets the only High $ planes around.
I would have loved to have seen a few more suggestions on ways of reducing this liability other then the you break it pay for it or else mentality
You have to realize that this is RCU
not real life. People tend to express opinions much more forcefully on these boards then in real life .... Then again maybe some are serious who knowsThe funny part is that after the bickering ends nobody seems to have any ideas how to address this concern. Shootdowns aren't the only issue by a long shot. Nor are turbine jets the only High $ planes around.
I would have loved to have seen a few more suggestions on ways of reducing this liability other then the you break it pay for it or else mentality
10-21-2004, 03:50 PM
#233
Member
My Feedback: (4)
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: New Phily,
PA
Posts: 68
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Shot Down
I agree, I was just using the jet as an example, as for the real world or RCU part I know what you mean, it just gets under my skin and as you can see almost 3 years on the boards and I dont post much.
10-21-2004, 03:55 PM
#234
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Grantham, , UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 180
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Shot Down
How receptive would people be to maybe a $30-$40 increase on their annual AMA membership that would insure against people's losses for things like shoot downs etc...
I think it would be worth it and I would be very willing to do the same in the UK, if only to save hard feelings in the club, afterall eveyone at the club is there to have fun, some people use it as an escape for the pressures of everyday life. For an extra few bucks per year to safeguard everyones interests, it isn't really that much.
What do you think?
Regards,
Sheridan
I think it would be worth it and I would be very willing to do the same in the UK, if only to save hard feelings in the club, afterall eveyone at the club is there to have fun, some people use it as an escape for the pressures of everyday life. For an extra few bucks per year to safeguard everyones interests, it isn't really that much.
What do you think?
Regards,
Sheridan
10-21-2004, 03:59 PM
#235
Member
My Feedback: (4)
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: New Phily,
PA
Posts: 68
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Shot Down
I think I would gladly pay an extra 40.00 a year to guarantee the safety of my model, but here again you’d need stringent guidelines so that people didn’t abuse it.
10-21-2004, 04:09 PM
#236
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Grantham, , UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 180
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Shot Down
Sure - I agree,
Well there is definately the need for it, and I am sure when you multiply the number of AMA members by $40 then I am sure there is the justification for the business venture. Especially when you consider that not every shootdown (in fact, luckily, very few) involves a multi thousand dollar plane.
You would maybe need clubs to require that every member has paid the required insurance fees, similar to public liablity insurance.
You maybe need to appoint senior representatives that would confirm the details of the shootdown to the insurance company, but most clubs have these in one form or another such as instructors or safety officials.
What I am trying to say is that this is a problem that can not prevent the shootdown (such as the much talked about spread spectrum? radios), but a solution to the financial loss and bad feeling.
All it would take is for someone with enough balls to take the initial risk and the ability to sell the concept, althoug I feel that judging by the sentement in this thread, there wouldn't be much trouble in that.
Kind Regards,
Sheridan
Well there is definately the need for it, and I am sure when you multiply the number of AMA members by $40 then I am sure there is the justification for the business venture. Especially when you consider that not every shootdown (in fact, luckily, very few) involves a multi thousand dollar plane.
You would maybe need clubs to require that every member has paid the required insurance fees, similar to public liablity insurance.
You maybe need to appoint senior representatives that would confirm the details of the shootdown to the insurance company, but most clubs have these in one form or another such as instructors or safety officials.
What I am trying to say is that this is a problem that can not prevent the shootdown (such as the much talked about spread spectrum? radios), but a solution to the financial loss and bad feeling.
All it would take is for someone with enough balls to take the initial risk and the ability to sell the concept, althoug I feel that judging by the sentement in this thread, there wouldn't be much trouble in that.
Kind Regards,
Sheridan
10-21-2004, 04:14 PM
#237
RE: Shot Down
ORIGINAL: sukhoipilot
Is this what this "Hobby" has come to? I have read this whole thread and I agree with some and disagree with others, I will not call any names nor make any derrogatory remarks but if I have read the above post correctly, what are you saying?
What if said person has no homeowners? and doesnt have the money to pay you for your loss, what then?
Is this what this "Hobby" has come to? I have read this whole thread and I agree with some and disagree with others, I will not call any names nor make any derrogatory remarks but if I have read the above post correctly, what are you saying?
What if said person has no homeowners? and doesnt have the money to pay you for your loss, what then?
I am not sure there is a question in there. The guy said that if he shot someones plane down out of his negligence, he would help build a new plane (but a lot of jets are built by pro builders so that might not work), or give him parts (what if the victim just wants his plane back?) etc. Nice sentiment but may not be acceptable to the victim.
So my point is if the guy is not willing to pay fair replacement value, then put a claim in with his homeowners insurance company. If he does not have insurance, take it to small claims or civil court, get a judgement.
I mean if someone out of negligence runs over your motorcycle you are just going to turn the other cheek?
In the jet forum, a noted insurance executive read this thread and said the following:
ORIGINAL: insurance executive
Well, no matter what they say, the system kinda works one way.
Do something negligent, get sued, have it proven, you pay. End of story. Nothing in those four pages of opinions changes this simple fact.
If it happens to you, turning in the claim to your liability carrier becomes a judgement call. If you have been with your insurer for a short period of time and have a history of frequent claims, it could be the straw that get's your policy cancelled. On the other hand, if you have been with one company for a while and aren't turning in claims all the time, go collect. That is what your premium is for. I wouldn't go after small sums, but 8k is worth a claim in my view.
There aren't enough of these claims to raise any statistical interest in an exclusion. Actually, more and more companies are including modelling activities expressley in the policy. Our losses are so few and far between, we are on no one's radar screen from a liability standpoint.
Well, no matter what they say, the system kinda works one way.
Do something negligent, get sued, have it proven, you pay. End of story. Nothing in those four pages of opinions changes this simple fact.
If it happens to you, turning in the claim to your liability carrier becomes a judgement call. If you have been with your insurer for a short period of time and have a history of frequent claims, it could be the straw that get's your policy cancelled. On the other hand, if you have been with one company for a while and aren't turning in claims all the time, go collect. That is what your premium is for. I wouldn't go after small sums, but 8k is worth a claim in my view.
There aren't enough of these claims to raise any statistical interest in an exclusion. Actually, more and more companies are including modelling activities expressley in the policy. Our losses are so few and far between, we are on no one's radar screen from a liability standpoint.
10-21-2004, 04:15 PM
#238
RE: Shot Down
ORIGINAL: bigbubba
How receptive would people be to maybe a $30-$40 increase on their annual AMA membership that would insure against people's losses for things like shoot downs etc...
I think it would be worth it and I would be very willing to do the same in the UK, if only to save hard feelings in the club, afterall eveyone at the club is there to have fun, some people use it as an escape for the pressures of everyday life. For an extra few bucks per year to safeguard everyones interests, it isn't really that much.
What do you think?
Regards,
Sheridan
How receptive would people be to maybe a $30-$40 increase on their annual AMA membership that would insure against people's losses for things like shoot downs etc...
I think it would be worth it and I would be very willing to do the same in the UK, if only to save hard feelings in the club, afterall eveyone at the club is there to have fun, some people use it as an escape for the pressures of everyday life. For an extra few bucks per year to safeguard everyones interests, it isn't really that much.
What do you think?
Regards,
Sheridan
I for one think it is a great idea
10-21-2004, 04:43 PM
#239
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Union City,
CA
Posts: 573
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Shot Down
I totally would pay an extra $40 just to make this go away.
As for the pin. Answer these questions.
- Nobody has ever written down a phone number incorrectly in their life.
- Never in their life tried to pay for something with too little or too much money.
- Never mis-read an adress.
- etc, etc, etc.
If you answer yes to any or one of a million other questions just like these you have the potential of taking the wrong pin.
Mis-read the number on a pin and all of a sudden you're an idiot that can't follow simple intructions and are the stupidest, non-caring human that ever walked the face of the earth and everybody else is perfect.
Better/new insurance is a work-around to the real problem. The root cause is the lack of technology or the lack of it's use.
As for the pin. Answer these questions.
- Nobody has ever written down a phone number incorrectly in their life.
- Never in their life tried to pay for something with too little or too much money.
- Never mis-read an adress.
- etc, etc, etc.
If you answer yes to any or one of a million other questions just like these you have the potential of taking the wrong pin.
Mis-read the number on a pin and all of a sudden you're an idiot that can't follow simple intructions and are the stupidest, non-caring human that ever walked the face of the earth and everybody else is perfect.
Better/new insurance is a work-around to the real problem. The root cause is the lack of technology or the lack of it's use.
10-21-2004, 05:21 PM
#240
Senior Member
My Feedback: (6)
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Los Alamos,
NM
Posts: 287
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Shot Down
ORIGINAL: bigbubba
Well there is definately the need for it, and I am sure when you multiply the number of AMA members by $40 then I am sure there is the justification for the business venture. Especially when you consider that not every shootdown (in fact, luckily, very few) involves a multi thousand dollar plane.
Well there is definately the need for it, and I am sure when you multiply the number of AMA members by $40 then I am sure there is the justification for the business venture. Especially when you consider that not every shootdown (in fact, luckily, very few) involves a multi thousand dollar plane.
Daren
10-21-2004, 05:31 PM
#241
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Jewett, NY,
Posts: 2,218
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Shot Down
Better/new insurance is a work-around to the real problem. The root cause is the lack of technology or the lack of it's use.
Why don't we start a thread in Dave M forum asking him if he could champion such an iniatitive?
Hey I'll even start the thread?
10-21-2004, 06:26 PM
#242
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Union City,
CA
Posts: 573
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Shot Down
Crashem, you're right. Human error will always be a problem, but failure to use avalible technology to reduce the risk and continue to put 100% of the burden in human hands is just silly. Insurance is a good thing, but takes care of business after it's too late. A better solution is to do is prevent the issue in the first place.
--- the follow is NOT directed at Crashem ---
Anybody that says (and many have here) something like, "If you can't follow damn simple instructions and take the correct pin you shouldn't be flying." is a fool. In that case none of us should be flying. Not idiots like me, not the know-it-all jet crowd, not anybody.
Since I'm in a foul mood, here's another jackass statement that pisses me off. "If you can't afford to replace somebody's plane then don't fly." You know what this says. Yeah, it says that only people with money has the right to enjoy this sport. Screw that.
--- the follow is NOT directed at Crashem ---
Anybody that says (and many have here) something like, "If you can't follow damn simple instructions and take the correct pin you shouldn't be flying." is a fool. In that case none of us should be flying. Not idiots like me, not the know-it-all jet crowd, not anybody.
Since I'm in a foul mood, here's another jackass statement that pisses me off. "If you can't afford to replace somebody's plane then don't fly." You know what this says. Yeah, it says that only people with money has the right to enjoy this sport. Screw that.
10-21-2004, 07:15 PM
#243
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Jewett, NY,
Posts: 2,218
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Shot Down
Mike,
We don't agree on each others opinions from time to time but this thread has convinced me that I want to be "Insubordinate Renegade Airforce (IRA 2) Since you are IRA member 1 and I perfer not to Step in #2 I'll ask to be formally inducted as IRA2. Awaiting you're approval.
BTW Don't limit this discussion to just shot downs our liability exposurer is acually greater then just shootdowns, hence my comment concerning not relyiny on tech.
We don't agree on each others opinions from time to time but this thread has convinced me that I want to be "Insubordinate Renegade Airforce (IRA 2) Since you are IRA member 1 and I perfer not to Step in #2 I'll ask to be formally inducted as IRA2. Awaiting you're approval.
BTW Don't limit this discussion to just shot downs our liability exposurer is acually greater then just shootdowns, hence my comment concerning not relyiny on tech.
10-21-2004, 08:24 PM
#244
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Union City,
CA
Posts: 573
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Shot Down
Crashem, part of IRA is that there's no leader and no rules other than use common sense. So give that you are very welcome to join me even though technially you don't need my approval and you can be #1 also if you really want to. If it suits you, you can make your self the president as well. My self-apponted offical title is "Monkey Boy" and my duties include being friendly, helpful, and giggling when you nose over before even getting off the ground.
10-21-2004, 10:07 PM
#245
Senior Member
My Feedback: (4)
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Lone Grove,
OK
Posts: 489
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Shot Down
I also find it very funny that the person who started this thread (Conrod) has only posted twice in it. Where is he? He should be proud of how his thread has grown! :LOL:
10-21-2004, 11:00 PM
#246
RE: Shot Down
ORIGINAL: MikeMc
As for the pin. Answer these questions.
- Nobody has ever written down a phone number incorrectly in their life.
As for the pin. Answer these questions.
- Nobody has ever written down a phone number incorrectly in their life.
If it was gonna cost me 8 grand if I got it wrong I am pretty sure I would write down a phone number correctly, and then re-check it about a 1/2 dozen times......
...just like someone should ALWAYS do before taking the pin and turning on.
10-21-2004, 11:01 PM
#247
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Joppa,
MD
Posts: 121
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Shot Down
[quote]ORIGINAL: mr_matt
[I mean if someone out of negligence runs over your motorcycle you are just going to turn the other cheek?
Matt, if someone ran over my motorcycle, either his liability insurance would cover it because he was required by law to carry liability insurance, or if he was driving illegally without insurance then the insurance that I pay for on my motorcycle would cover it. If you want this to be an analogous situation, then your flying club should REQUIRE every flier to purchase liability insurance covering damage to other people's models before they'd be allowed in the gate.
Charlie
[I mean if someone out of negligence runs over your motorcycle you are just going to turn the other cheek?
Matt, if someone ran over my motorcycle, either his liability insurance would cover it because he was required by law to carry liability insurance, or if he was driving illegally without insurance then the insurance that I pay for on my motorcycle would cover it. If you want this to be an analogous situation, then your flying club should REQUIRE every flier to purchase liability insurance covering damage to other people's models before they'd be allowed in the gate.
Charlie
10-21-2004, 11:22 PM
#248
RE: Shot Down
ORIGINAL: tango28charlie
If you want this to be an analogous situation, then your flying club should REQUIRE every flier to purchase liability insurance covering damage to other people's models before they'd be allowed in the gate.
If you want this to be an analogous situation, then your flying club should REQUIRE every flier to purchase liability insurance covering damage to other people's models before they'd be allowed in the gate.
I don't need the law to tell me to have car insurance.........I am not sure why a club would need to tell you to be responsible enough to have liability insurance, but I guess it takes all kinds of people.
Sounds fine to me!
10-21-2004, 11:26 PM
#249
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Union City,
CA
Posts: 573
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Shot Down
ORIGINAL: mr_matt
If it was gonna cost me 8 grand if I got it wrong I am pretty sure I would write down a phone number correctly, and then re-check it about a 1/2 dozen times......
...just like someone should ALWAYS do before taking the pin and turning on.
ORIGINAL: MikeMc
As for the pin. Answer these questions.
- Nobody has ever written down a phone number incorrectly in their life.
As for the pin. Answer these questions.
- Nobody has ever written down a phone number incorrectly in their life.
If it was gonna cost me 8 grand if I got it wrong I am pretty sure I would write down a phone number correctly, and then re-check it about a 1/2 dozen times......
...just like someone should ALWAYS do before taking the pin and turning on.
Sorry but I can't take this topic or Team Jet seriously anymore.
10-22-2004, 03:46 AM
#250
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Rotterdam, NETHERLANDS
Posts: 100
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Shot Down
(Conrod) has only posted twice in it. Where is he? He should be proud of how his thread has grown!
Come to think of it, perhaps he's made the smarter decision 