twistr

My Feedback: (4)

As Nebbie said, this is a hobby, and to put someone in debt for 200$ a month for the rest of their life is ridiculous! Is that going to replace your $8000 plane immediately? No, what you are doing is taking food off the table of their kids and family and definitely putting them out of the hobby. This hobby is not for the *elite*. It is for anyone who wants to get into it and as far into it as they can afford or want to pay. If you have $8000 tied up in a plane, and money *is* an object, then you need some serious therapy!

I say take your $8000 plane and go fly it in the desert, where noobody will be there to *shoot* you down.

MikeMc

You know what happens if the SHOOTER doesn't have $8000? Right, nothing. In fact no lawer will take an owners case ones they figure out the SHOOTER has no insurance and no money. Nice try.

I love how guys with expensive planes "play" with poor guys and in fact know that the system is not 100% perfect, and have it all figured out how the poor dude will pay for their plane. Get a clue, we fly $100 planes because that's all we can afford. If we could afford to pay for your $8000 plane we'd have one ourself. OMG, this argument is so stupid.

mr_matt

My Feedback: (10)

Hey genius, didn't you see my post, I already know a guy that got a judgement in Los Angeles, small claims, no lawyer. In many places, small claims limits can be quite high.

Don't blame me, blame the US judicial system for holding people responsible for personal negligence...how dare they!!

MikeMc

Hey Matt,

$8000 in small claims? Guess what, I think you're full of crap.

mr_matt

My Feedback: (10)

I never said the case in Californa was for that much, the limit is $5k in California.

About 1/2 the states have limits of at least $5K, several are over $10K.

The best place to be negligent is in Kentucy ($1,200 limit), but make sure you radio does not bleed over the border into Tennessee! ($15K-$25K limit in small claims)

MikeMc

Hey genius, yes you did say that.

Broken

When you tie that much money ($8g's) into a model why not get yourself off of the frequency board altogether. Leave it for us poor poppers who feel the need to share with others. The expensive planes at my local area field use Ham Radio frequencies. They own the channel they fly on!! With your Amateur Radio license you can operate RC models with the use of exclusive Amateur Radio frequency.

If your going to put the money in it DO IT RIGHT and stop crying about your expensive model being shot down by a $100 arf flown by unexperienced kid who just wants to learn to fly a plane.
Bottom line:
If you share the board bad things WILL happen. I share the board therefore I accept the risk of someone making a mistake.

P.S. I really like the idea of a radio that scans before it will transmit. I would like to see this on my LCD when I turn the radio on.: ((CH38 Clr)) Press enter to xmit..

CGRetired

My Feedback: (1)

Is there such a radio?

MikeMc

There's a discussion about radios and technology that can do this in the AMA forums. For use poor guys (besides having the pin) we just turn on the reciever first and watch for a few moments to see if anybody is flying our plane. If they really want to be elitists then they can buy their own airfield and keep the rest of us out.

CGRetired

My Feedback: (1)

Good point. It's probably something that most (maybe not most, but many) people overlook. I do, as a matter of habit, but that doesn't help when you are flying, nor would the expensive gizmo on the transmitter. I guess it all comes down to diligence and faith that someone at the field won't do it by accident.

Personally, I think that there is a lot of paranoia going on in this thread. And I will still fly.

CptCliffhanger

My Feedback: (6)

I'm flying more expensive planes every year.. I've got quite a bit tied up in my new 1/3rd scale edge.. I've got to say. It would really piss me off to have my plane destroyed becuase of someone elses neglect. I't a lot easier to handle the loss when it's your own fault.

That being said, when I load up the car in the morning, and get ready to fly, I am prepared to lose my plane and my investvestmen.. For whatever reason!I'd like to think that every modeler leaves the house with the same preperation.

This doesn't mean I have no resposibility to make sure that No one is flying on my frequency. But if you're the type of person that will kick somebodys' ***** over a $6,000 toy. Then maybe you're not emotionally ready to be flying that toy.. Maybe you should get up that morning, and load a foamie jet, with a GWS ducted fan, and a 3-cell LiPo, into your car. Maybe you're prepared to lose that, without loosing your cool.

My point is: Just because you spend a certain amount on your hobby, doesn't mean you can expect someone else to spend that much on your hobby. The fact of the matter is; if some guy shows up next weekend, with a right flyer, and a magnum gp 40, in a 78 corolla station wagon, I have to accept the fact that he wont be able to replace my 1/3rd scale edge if he shoots it down.. It'll ruin my day, I'll be pissed, and I'll think less of him if he doesn't at least offer to do what he can affored. But, I'd think even less of myself, if I took it out on him, and his property!

Stephan

seanreit

My Feedback: (60)

I disagree, anyone flying RC airplanes has a right to expect that anyone else flying an rc airplane knows that if he/she turns their transmitter on and shoots you down flying your RC airplane that they are totally 100% at fault as if they had physically come over and turned your transmitter off while it was in your hands. There is no differnce if the end result is your crashed airplane. I can't imagine a reasonable judge in the country not giving you a judgement on this if you can prove it with any amount of reason. The cost of the plane shot down would only justify whether or not it made sense to file suit or not. Obviosuly if you're shot down with a park flyer, or some other inexpensive model, the lost wouldn't seem to support the effort of the suit.

But if my $$$ thousand turbine gets shot down, I'll take a $100.00 a month for the duration. It's a tough lesson, but reasonable. If you give him a break on that, why don't you give him a break on child support if he makes some dumb decision some night with a chick? Or give him a break cause he's in a rental car when he hits your mustang and dents the door? Or any other number of excuses for "accidents happen".

CptCliffhanger

My Feedback: (6)

Well in that case, I agree with Broken.. You and your high dollar buddies should all get ham radio's. Then you have only each other to blame! And you can take turns buying each other new planes. :-)

CptCliffhanger

My Feedback: (6)

I'm a firm supporter that people should take responsibilities for thier actions.. You're right about that Sean. You have to keep in mind, that this is a hobby. Toys! Playground stuff! A modler needs to take some responsibility for the fact that He/She chose to spend what most other modlers would call an ungodly amount of money on thier "playgound equipment"

You bring up a child support analagy.. Good point! If I knock up some chick Saturday night...... You're right, I should have to pay Child support.. I should pay child support within my means! I shouldn't have to pay millions in child support just because the chick I happen to knock up, wants to raise her new child in a Beverly Hills mansion, where he watches Sponge Bob on a Big screen HDTV, and flies a Yellow Aircraft F-18 with a RAM 1000 by the time he's Twelve! OH NO!!! My boy living in a two bedroom cottage in Spokane WA where he flies his scratch built depron Ultimate in the backyard when he's finished with his homework! And that B*!&%^@ is paying ME!! :-) LOL

MikeMc

Sean, of course you see it differently, but the system as a whole is already setup for failure, and you know it.

Expensive plane guys, you know the system isn't perfect so you are resposible as well. You can NOT casually place blame on somebody else in a known faulty system.

1. Is there a manned impound or will a simple pin board be ok?
2. Are there new guys at your field that simple don't understand?
3. Are you willing to fly your $8000 plane with a known faulty system (anybody can transmit on any freq)?

Maybe $8000 is too much to risk if you don't like these answers.

Woketman

My Feedback: (6)

I can not believe some of you guys, I simply am amazed! The bottom line is personal responsibility here, PERIOD!!!

If someone turns on a transmitter on a freq that a guy with a $10K airplane is on, and that guy has the pin and loses his $10K plane, then the dumb_ss that turned on is responsible for the $10K... PERIOD!!! If he does not understand that or is unwilling to police his actions such that he will not do that or he is slipping mentally such that he might make the mistake.. then he either needs to resolve himself to pay for the mistake or not go flying! There is no gray area, its very simple.

I've been flying 31.5 years and have NEVER shot someone down cause I am careful and have made a personal commitment to try and be that way. I have been shot down only once (about 29 yeas ago).

Some of you guys need to learn some personal responsibility. You shoot it down, you bought it no matter what it cost. Jeeezzzz!

Daren Savage

My Feedback: (6)

The popcorn is a-cookin'!

Daren

Broken

Ohhhhhh no "no controll" I lost it!!! Crash!!!!!!
What happened? "I was shot down" By who? Don't know-
"Look that 12 year old kid has freq flags on my channel!"
Lets Get Him!!!!! We'll make him pay!!


Serious flaw's in the system indeed-

REALLY- if you invest thousands in the plane get your own Amature Radio Freq. Done and done- no worries..
Would you buy a expensive car knowing that thier are only 60 key combinations.

Personal responsibility is a great thing. ONLY AN IDIOT WOULD SPEND 8G's AND NOT TAKE PRECAUTIONS- TO GET THEMSELVS OFF OF THE STANDARD CHANNELS- The rest of us will take our chances!

Popcorn is in the fire! can't wait till it's done!

CptCliffhanger

My Feedback: (6)

I'm not arguing weather or not the guy is at fault.. Clearly if you you have the pin, and he turns on and you crash, it's his fault.. But you have to ask yourself. Did you do everything you could to find out if anybody else at the field was on your channel before you flew? You could prevent 99% of planes being shot down if you just asked "Who's on 38? I've got the pin! I'll let you know when I'm finished, please don't turn on until then, I'm flying a rediculously expensive model, and if it crashes today, i'd like it to be my fault, and not yours."

So please tell me, that before you rant and rave about how cut and dry it is, that you have done everything in your power to prevent getting shot down, before you hold somebody else completly responsible!
If somebody discreetly takes a frequency pin from the box and flies, and gets shot down, I don't feel too sorry for them.. They should have been vocal and more social about the whole thing.. You ultimatly have to protect yourself from newbies who don't realize the importance of the frequency board, or oldies, who happen to be having an abcent minded day..

In a direct response to "You shoot it down, you bought it no matter what it cost. Jeeezzzz"

I still have to dissagree.. After all is said.. you may be right about one thing.. It could very well be the other guys' fault for shooting you down. you may be completly free of any wrong doing. But being that this is a hobby, I don't believe that it is his fault that you spent 10K on your model... You may even be right about the fact that there should be some finacial consiquence for shooting somebody down.. In this case I would award the victim tha average cost to replace a model airplane.. Maybe $400 tops!

I believe that you have to take resposibility for the fact that you chose to spend a fortune on your model airplane! Just because you chose to put more $$ at risk, doesn't mean eveybody at your club has to up the ante as well..

CptCliffhanger

My Feedback: (6)

Well put broken!

Slight correction there are only 50 keys!! channels start @ 11 :-)

seanreit

My Feedback: (60)

Mark, these are they guys I pull up to and ding their doors on their cars. I get a lot of satisfaction from it

And since I've got all this $$$$ I also pay hoodlums $10.00 for their crank to go key things [X(]

Matt, thanks for the invite, I'm learning a lot here []

mr_matt

My Feedback: (10)

Tell it to the judge!! Hobby stuff is property, it still costs money.....if I drive a Cobra and someone hits me, I get it fixed (to the limits of his insurance or I get a judgment) no one tells me I should not be driving a Cobra.

Before you guys get excited and tell me it is not the same as automobiles, cause you have insurance......that is my whole point, just get liability insurance. You are liable for all kinds of things in life...your dog bites someone, I hope you got insurance...someone slips on your sidewalk, same thing. Do something negligent that causes someone to loose thousands of dollars......its all the same.......This is why you get liability insurance in the first place!

And these silly arguments that there are a hundred things that can bring down an expensive plane...of course there are, that is the stuff we try to get out of the equation....nobody is talking about getting someone to pay if a clevis broke! We are talking about someone not having the pin when and turning on.....nothing else, don't muddy the waters

And whoever is on this amateur radio kick, that makes no difference, read further up the thread, a HAM shot another one down, did not have the pin, same thing.

This thread is the sole reason i have been working on spread spectrum radios for the last 2 years!! I KNOW I will never get paid, it is just funny to see people try to rationalize why they should not have to take personal responsibility.

mr_matt

My Feedback: (10)

i hear ya, there have been threads just like this over the years, almost all of the same exact arguments......quite eye opening.

I am not_that_disturbed about the reality of not getting paid, it is the ATTITUDE by some that they would not have to pay.....that attitude breeds a careless attitude to frequency control that i think is corrosive and (apparently) contagious.

khodges

My Feedback: (1)

Procedure-Procedure-Procedure. Radios should go to the impound area before you even unload your planes. Get into the habit even when you show up alone at the field-set your transmitter on the impound table, then put everything else together. get your pin and leave your card; make it a point , whether there's a frequency control system in place or not, to say high to the other fliers when you arrive, and oh, by the way, what freq. are you on? This is a hobby where anal retentive is a virtue. Do the same thing the same way each time and it will become second nature(of course that includes crashing too). I can think of a hundred ways to prevent shooting somebody down, but not a single excuse for it.

If you shoot somebody down, be a man about it. Sure, it's gonna cost you, either a trade ---good plane for rekitted plane, or equivalent bucks, but you'll still be welcome at the field next time you show up.

Woketman

My Feedback: (6)

Matt is right on the money. We have several guys that fly ham band in our club and, of course, a guest could show up at any time on the wrong ham freq. What is this mysterious magic that Broken thinks is linked to ham freqs? I think his logic gland is broken. And yes, I do take a lot of extra precautions when flying a turbine. I make it a point to see who is on my channel. That helps, but does not eliminate the threat. Once again, bottom line is that if you shoot it down, you pay for it. Once again: personal responsibility.

You guys are right. It is amazingly educational to see some of the rationalization put forth here. Unbelievable!

Matt, damn you... hurry up with a 12 channel spread spectrum system... time is running out... the personal responsibility hour glass is all but empty!