BANJOAIRPLANE

Stang,it sounds like you may have had some weak bands.I had one try to do the same thing.It was a handful to fly,pitching everytime the wing would lift from the fuse[X(] making trimming impossible.After adding more new bands the problem went away.I was fortunate to discover the problem before putting it in as what happened here.Tough break man.[:@]

troposcuba

hi guys, newbie here. i am the guy that Mr67 is talking about. yeah, i know in hindsight i should have glued the wing together. for what it is worth, i flew gliders and slope glieders for years in california. built several planes from kits as well. so i am not totally inexperienced. just never flew powered flight before. I have to admit that i did question it when i was putting the wing together, but after reading the instructions again and noticing that it was quite a tight fit putting the tube into the wing joint figured that they must know what they are doing with a plane as common as this one. anyway, it is in the mail as we speak. i will letcha know what they tell me when i hear from h9.

also, no worries about me being bummed and giving up. i have crashed plenty planes before this one and am sure there will be more in the future. but thanks for all the positive support.

Arrow IV

Troposcuba,
That a boy!!! Keep er going!!!

Don't sweat the details on the wing thing, if you can't trust the designer who can ya? I mean my personal default is to the designer. It would only make sence that the designers know what they are doing... Wait a minute... Scratch that last statement... [:'(]

maineac58

Just my opinion, but I would also be a bit leery of the Tower trainer. At our field we have had a couple of the
wings come apart on the Tower Trainer ARF. Looks like a weak spot in that one too. Not to down Tower, just
a personal observation.

troposcuba

hey fellas, just to clarify, there were at least 10 brand new rubberbands on this wing too. seriously doubt that was the prob.

Mr67Stang

12 actually.... I put them on.

BLUEGOOSE2

Two sides to each coin in which I have witnessed both. I have an Alpha 60 wich uses the same 3/4" tape as the 40. Originally was taped and finally i was convinced to epoxy the joint. After the joint was epoxied I can in on a short approach, tipped the wing and cartwheeled the plane. Had the joint been taped it would have been more giving and not dented up the leading edge into the fuse. Reglued, repaired, forgot to charge batteries and spiraled the final death of the wing. Don't think the tape would have helped on this one. My point is that its a trainer plane and they are trying to keep it as forgiving as they can because minor mishaps and cartwheel landings, and tailovers are going to happen. I don't agree with the taped wings but I can see the manufacturers standpoint in a trainer model.

rrragmanliam

My Feedback: (1)

Dave,

I'm hearing you but if the MFG were to use this as an excuse it would totaly be chicken s--t! First of all thats what the throttle is for. Secondly 90% of rc aircraft use 2 blade props and have forever. This plane should be able to handle ALL the aerodynamic forces encountered during flight, even at WOT with a 2 bladed prop, in a dive then pullout at full speed.

Darren

troposcuba

fwiw even though we had the 2 bladed prop installed, like mentioned earlier, there was a VERY experienced pilot flying the plane when it went down and it had only been up for a short time at fairly low speed. so although it may be true as far as possibly exceeding the airframe design limits, i am sure that it did not actually reach high enough speeds to be a factor.

still waiting on h9's response on this one. i mailed it out about a week ago. haven't received the confirmation of receipt that they have to sign when they get the package yet. so more to come.

Carpilot

Hmmm, The Hangar 9 Arrow ARF plane is the same basic design, the instructions said to use tape to hold whe wing halves together, with epoxy as an option, I guess I'll epoxy them together now because I just bought a 2 blade prop and spinner for it the other day. I can fly the heck out of my stryker F27C and now this Arrow is kinda boring after only just a few flights with the 3 blade prop.

rccardude04

In reality, you shouldn't even need the tape to hold the wings together. There is practically no load whatsoever pulling the wings apart during flight. All of the forces are perpendicular to the wing tube so all of the loads are on the tube and the rubber bands. If the tube fits tight, and enough rubberbands are used, there is really not even any reason for the tape. It's mainly there just to keep them from being accidentally seperated during wing installation and transportation.
The epoxy and glass will aid in high-g situations where the wing tube would have failed, but does not really help at all with keeping the wings from seperating.
How many gliders have you seen that use nothing but 2 aluminum tubes to hold the wingtips on?
-Eric

troposcuba

well fellas, here's the update. got home from the field today jealously watching everyone else flying on a beautiful day. waiting on the front porch was a big ol box from hangar 9. sure enough, they sent me a new plane. so whether it was my fault or not, i got a second chance at it. so i plan to glue this wing together for sure, and should be up in the air next chance i get. hangar 9 has a fan here for sure!!

Mr67Stang

So now I know why you didn't come over for a few beers around the fire pit... That's great news! Hanger 9, Congrates for your superior customer service![sm=thumbup.gif]

ger88005

An older gentleman at my club asked someone else to fly his little 20 size trainer for the second time. There was only that gentleman, another, and me at the field all that day. The maiden flight was performed by the other guy (Kenny) while I flew my P-51. I agreed to fly it since the other guy was busy. The takeoff was good, but I would set the trim, take it in a turn and find myself re-trimming the ailerons. This made me very nervous, so I asked the guy if there was any tricks or anything he wanted me to perform. He said bring it in for a landing and he'll take it from there.
I brought it in a left turn, and after a landing where I was holding the ailerons to the right slightly we found out the servo horn was too big for the servo.
He used a hitec servo arm on a futaba servo, or vice-versa. I can't remember which.
Moral of the story: Make sure the servo arm cannot ever turn without the servo turning and that it fits TIGHT on the servo.

Achilles_

I had an Aplha trainer once and I used 2 inch packing tape to hold the wing togther. I doubled the tape up though to add strength to the tape. I used an APC 10x6 2 bladed prop on it and the wing held together even after plowing it in to the ground at full tilt.

Just my experiece with this plane and not glueing the wings together.

mxracerx43

TRy that with a 3-D plane like a Funtan 100 see what happens

sticktickler

I've been flying RC for 20 years and was asked to help two new young guyslast summer to learn to fly both had these Aplha trainer planes. After a good field inspection both planes had my flight ready approval. Took one up and I too had trouble with finding the level trim so time to land and find out why. Made my last turn to final and the wing folded and I lost her airframe was trashed. I felt bad about this and started to look at the crash pieces before flying the other guy’s plane. I noticed that it had no glue at the wing joint and asked the builder about that and he said it was not required. I said well it isn’t if you like to crash and if you don't glue up that other one it will crash as well. So they got the other all glued up and she flew just fine. By the way the other young student also got a new plane from Horizon so all was good. Moral of the story… GLUE THAT WING TOGETHER EVEN IF IT DON�T TELL YOU IN THE INSTRUCTIONS!

SebM

I should pretty soon order the Hangar 9 Alpha 40 RTF combo and I will certainly epoxy the wing together. I'd like to know what you mean exactly by ''glass them'' ? Do you mean adding a thin coat of epoxy over the joint of the wing after gluing them ?

Also, I have read many prop recommendation like 10X6, 11X4, 11X5, 11X6 and 11X7. I want to order two spare prop but I don't know which one to select.

By the way, any other modification or reinforcement that I should be aware of ?

Thank you

rrragmanliam

My Feedback: (1)

These two statements seem to be in conflict with each other.

rrragmanliam

My Feedback: (1)

What you do is cut a piece of fiberglass cloth (1.5 to 2.0 oz. per sq. yd.) about 2" wide and long enough to wrap around the entire wing joint top and bottom. Then as you noted cover the wing joint with a THIN layer of epoxy. Next, lay the glass cloth on the joint and work the epoxy into the glass cloth with a squeegie. (old credit cards and a card from a deck of cards work great). The goal here is to inpregnate the glass with the epoxy and then remove any excess. You can also hit the joint LIGHTLY with a heat gun to thin the epoxy a bit.

This is impotant USE A SLOW CURE EPOXY ( 30 MIN. OR LONGER) TO ALLOW YOURSELF ENOUGH TIME TO WORK THE JOINT. If you use an epoxy with a shorter cure time you will be sory.

Another point is that since this wing is already covered you will have to remove the covering at the joint prior to glassing it. You glass the bare joint, NOT over the covering. Then you have to recover. To remove covering do not use an exacto knife as it's easy to cut into the structure and weaken it. A nifty way to remove the covering is to use a light touch with a soldering iron to make the "cuts" then peal the covering away.

Finaly, I don't think you really need to do all this. Since the plane was designed for the wing to simply be taped together, The wing joint should be strong enough. All you really need to do is epoxy the wing together so that it will not seperate into two pieces during flight. If it were me I would "glass" the joint, but I have every thing I need to do it ( epoxy, glass, covering materials and tools) but again I don't really think it's necessary.

Darren

rrragmanliam

My Feedback: (1)

You are 100%wrong on this point. Not only will it help keep the wings from seperating it will completely cure the problem.

Darren

troposcuba

fwiw, it was my plane that started this thread. hangar 9 was awesome and went beyond what i think they were obligated to do by completely replacing it free of charge. that being said, i epoxied together the wing halves on the second plane and have just about flown the covering off it since. I even cartwheeled it a bit and snapped off the fuse near the tail since then. completely my fault that time. that got repaired and was in the air the next day. but even abusing it and pulling more g's than i am sure this plane was designed for, there have been zero wing joint problems to date.

rccardude04

Mathematically though, all of the loading is up and down, which is held by the wing tube or whatever they use on those planes. I do agree that the tape is not a good idea, but if you fly it how it is designed, it will hold together.
The epoxy does give a stronger bond and will keep it from breaking under high G loading, or during barrel rolls where there is a "centrifugal" force "pulling" the wings off of the plane.
That being said, if it was mine, I would epoxy it. But I'm not 100% wrong on the point. If you analyze it mathematically, it makes sense.

Anyway, glad they replaced it. Hangar 9 has always had wonderful customer service. Seems like you had the same experience
Have fun flying!
-Eric

mxracerx43

Getting off the topic a bit but Horizion does have excellent service! I purchased a Hangar-9 P-51 60 size ARF from the LHS unfortunatley the owner has retired and closed shop. A few months later I start building my kit. Guess what no hardware. I check the website for spares but they do not sell seperate. 1 call to Horizion and they tell me they will put me on a list so if they receive a damaged return I can get the hardware. I called Monday and had the hardware Sat morning free of any charges. I probably got lucky and they had a damaged kit there but that is awesome service. I own 9 Hangar-9 planes and am more into helis now than planks but I would not hesitate to buy from Hangar-9 if they had a plane I wanted. (How about an ME109 ARF guys!!!)

l.wilber

My Feedback: (3)

Thanks for the info, keep flying and by all means report how the model manufacturers handle the service end of things. Hangar 9 will be on my perspective buy from list.