Stupid, Stupid Stupid! Now w/pics!
08-05-2007, 03:26 PM
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Stupid, Stupid Stupid! Now w/pics!
Well, I think I can rebuild my F-22. I had not gotten to fly for most of the summer and the local flying field picnic was today but there were thunderstorms roaming about. So I cleaned my shop and decided to taxi myF-22down to my local park and just give it a spin for a couple of minutes,......STUPID STUPID STUPID!!!!!!! for got about the trees, their wind shadows and all the freaking obsticals!!! Well everything was going great, taxied out, did a couple of medium to high speed taxis to get a feel for aborting or recovery from landing, then got it lined up and nice and smooth to max throttle, 70 foot roll, nose wheel then mains, very pretty,.....and that was the end of pretty, picked up the first wind shadow then another, the wind wasn't that strong, just the obsticals made a big difference. Thought, self you need to get this back on the ground. Did I just lighten up on the throttle and set it back down? plenty of room,....no, me the big bad pilot is going to complete the circuit and land where I took off. Bad move, turned with the wind right in to another wind shadow, ok this is stupid, leveled it back out, easied back on the throttle and was just going to set it back down, another wind shadow, up I go, max throttle, turn back to me, except I forgot now I'm with the wind, cut the throttle and eased the stick forward, not the result I wanted, right wing tip stall, rolled right, thought I had it clase to the ground would be able to mush out a wheels landing,....nope, 3" divot and folded the fuse at the nose wheel. Can be fixed but was just really stupid! FLY at the FLYING FIELD!!!
08-05-2007, 05:37 PM
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RE: Stupid, Stupid Stupid!
I agree with the flying at the field, especailly for not flying most of the summer....what in the world is a wind shadow? do you mean turbulance from the trees?
08-05-2007, 09:10 PM
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RE: Stupid, Stupid Stupid!
The question about the wind shadow, best if you check sail boat racing. as you pass behind an object you find less air over the wing and less lift
08-05-2007, 09:31 PM
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RE: Stupid, Stupid Stupid!
I'd guess "wind shadow" is used to mean areas where the air is calm due to the wind being blocked by nearby obstacles (trees, buildings, herds of elephants, incoming meteors, whatever) and, as the plane leaves the "shadow", it suddenly encounters wind.
*shrug*
*shrug*
08-05-2007, 09:33 PM
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RE: Stupid, Stupid Stupid!
Woops...didn't realize schwatd was posting at the same time. Sorry! 
I am curious, however, about the "less lift" comment. How does wind effect lift?
I am curious, however, about the "less lift" comment. How does wind effect lift?
08-05-2007, 11:48 PM
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RE: Stupid, Stupid Stupid!
ORIGINAL: gboulton
I am curious, however, about the "less lift" comment. How does wind effect lift?
I am curious, however, about the "less lift" comment. How does wind effect lift?
Tailwind = less airspeed = less lift
Headwind = more airspeed = more lift
And that's not even going into wind direction, e.g. an updraft from wind hitting a tree or building will also change your angle of attack.
08-06-2007, 04:46 AM
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RE: Stupid, Stupid Stupid!
sorry guys wind has no effect on lift....wind will have an effect on ground speed, head wind less ground speed, tail wind more ground speed.
Then its the turbulance the trees caused?
Then its the turbulance the trees caused?
08-06-2007, 09:50 AM
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RE: Stupid, Stupid Stupid!
wind does not affect lift....what makes a wind shear so dangerous is that: as you approach the shear, you have an apparent increase in airspeed. The pilot will then lift the nose and pull power off as the aircraft gets deeper into the shear with less power and higher than normal aoa suddendly you have a down draft, you're already low and slow you drop the nose and apply power but you just don't have enough room to get back to where you should be with the proper attitude and power. wind did not effect lift at all.
the other day i was coming back from Mexico, wind was 85 deg off the nose made an eastward turn and now I have a tail wind airspeed did not increase ground speed did though and the aircraft did not pitch up or down with the change in wind direction.
If your theory was correct as an aircraft turned into the wind the aircraft would pitch up, as you turn down wind you'd pitch down.
The reason an aircraft carrier turns into the wind for launch is to create airflow over the wings or airspeed.
Its not unusal to have 100 mph winds at altitude if for some reason the winds change or suddendly decrease the aircraft doesn't pitch down
the other day i was coming back from Mexico, wind was 85 deg off the nose made an eastward turn and now I have a tail wind airspeed did not increase ground speed did though and the aircraft did not pitch up or down with the change in wind direction.
If your theory was correct as an aircraft turned into the wind the aircraft would pitch up, as you turn down wind you'd pitch down.
The reason an aircraft carrier turns into the wind for launch is to create airflow over the wings or airspeed.
Its not unusal to have 100 mph winds at altitude if for some reason the winds change or suddendly decrease the aircraft doesn't pitch down
08-06-2007, 10:15 AM
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RE: Stupid, Stupid Stupid!
ORIGINAL: daveopam
Sorry but wind does effect lift. Ask a full scale pilot about wind shear. And then tell him it does not effect lift.
David
Sorry but wind does effect lift. Ask a full scale pilot about wind shear. And then tell him it does not effect lift.
David
I'm a full scale pilot.
Wind doesn't effect lift.
If the airplane is flying, lift = weight. Period. Doesn't matter what the "wind" is doing, what ground speed is, or anything else. Unless the airplane is falling out of the sky, lift=weight.
There's also a misconception that lift varies with airspeed. Again, incorrect. Lift=weight. Airplanes climb or descend not because of a change in lift, but because they must climb or descend to maintain a requested angle of attack.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again...
EVERY pilot, RC or Scale, should read Langewiesche's Stick and Rudder
08-06-2007, 10:47 AM
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RE: Stupid, Stupid Stupid!
thank you gboulton, I am not a full scale pilot I have been a crew chief in the service and am currently a flight mech on a 727-200. been doing this for over 30 years, still got awed by a sunset friday night over Illinois on my way to Toronto
08-06-2007, 12:03 PM
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RE: Stupid, Stupid Stupid!
Turbulence and wind shears are an example of changing forces that change momentum. Yes, the wind itself doesn't affect the plane. It's the change from one wind speed and/or direction to another that momentarily change the planes airspeed. Doesn't necessarily affect lift and may or may not affect a plane adversely depending on how gradual the change is. A wind shear is a sudden change. A long sweeping turn in a given wind speed is a gradual change. It's just Newton's laws of motion.
08-06-2007, 12:42 PM
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RE: Stupid, Stupid Stupid!
yeah i'm a full scale pilot and rc pilot. i dont care what it is, if it has fixed wings, wind is everything especially on short runways and cruisiing. a head wind on take off and landing is just free lift. i dont understand why some people that fly planes cant understand that. basically what happens when airplanes fly they create an artificial wind. when there is "true" wind then that means you dont have to work as hard as long as you know how to put it to your advantage ex. take offs and landings. (if the wind is down the runway). if you keep the same airspeed a tail wind raises your groundspeed and a headwind is opposite. but unless you are trying to get somewhere and not just fly around ground speed does not matter. if you have a 40 mph tail wind and a plane that takes off at 60 then your ground speed is 100 when you take off. but a plane is built to fly not drive so on take off and landings if all possible go into the wind and cruising, if your lucky, try to get a tail wind. wh ever says wind dont affect airplanes dont know what they are talking about.
08-06-2007, 01:05 PM
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RE: Stupid, Stupid Stupid!
ORIGINAL: dirtmagnet
yeah i'm a full scale pilot and rc pilot. i dont care what it is, if it has fixed wings, wind is everything especially on short runways and cruisiing. a head wind on take off and landing is just free lift. i dont understand why some people that fly planes cant understand that.
yeah i'm a full scale pilot and rc pilot. i dont care what it is, if it has fixed wings, wind is everything especially on short runways and cruisiing. a head wind on take off and landing is just free lift. i dont understand why some people that fly planes cant understand that.
As is frequently the case, I suspect there's simply a disagreement of terms. Some of us use very specific terms to mean very general things, and vice versa, others use very specific terms to mean very specific things. Langewiesche, for example, points out that what the engineer calls "lift" is 'lift", and that:
If a 2,500 pound airplane is in steady flight,...then its wings are developing 2,500 pounds of lift; not 2,499, not 2,501, but exactly 2,500.
Stick and Rudder, Wolfgang Langewieshe, p. 46
Stick and Rudder, Wolfgang Langewieshe, p. 46
So the airplane does the only thing it can do...it descends. Why? Simple: A descent INCREASES THE ANGLE OF ATTACK, thus maintaining our 2,500 lbs of lift. LIFT HASN'T CHANGED. If it had, our airplane would either rise like a balloon, or drop out of the sky.
However, since it's descending now, we pilots tend to think in terms of "not as much lift, o the airplane is coming down"...and thus find ourselves stating a poorly phrased argument as though it were inarguable fact.
There ain't no such thing as "extra lift" or "free lift". We can certainly convert actual wind to relative wind...but an airplane that flies at 60 knots relative wind with AoA X is gonna fly at 60 knots RW at X AoA regardless. "true wind" may or may not provide some of that 60 knots, but the "lift" ain't gonna change one little bit.
Hey...I take off into the wind just like you do...and for the same dang reasons.
It's free relative wind.
08-06-2007, 03:22 PM
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RE: Stupid, Stupid Stupid!
Geez,.....ROBBY!!!! Shoot me now, I didn't mean to create such a controversy out of my dumb thumbs and stupid flying habits!!! I'm Sorry!!!!!
To give you the discription of what happened then everyone else can call it what they want, As I left the wind and was behind an obstical (tree) the plane, already at a fairly high AOA, fell from the sky, I added power and pushed the nose forward, recovered, leveled the wings out, attempted another final, medium throttle, nose up a little, another obstical with no wind. This time too close to the ground, so I nosed down lightened the trottle to set it down and then it stalled,...oh yeah then it crashed. In haz mat terms the term is a 'wind rose', like for a plume of chemicals, There is a mathimatical simulator that will create the plume for you called ALOHA, The perimeter of the plume is called it's wind rose, conversely when an obstical is in the wind and there is an abcense of wind behind the obstical, you can find the bounders of the wind line, hence the obstical's wind rose or more correctly put wind shadow, Like an object casts a shadow on the ground, no letting light through, an object can also not allow wind through creating a wind shadow, sometimes creating turbulance sometimes not.
To give you the discription of what happened then everyone else can call it what they want, As I left the wind and was behind an obstical (tree) the plane, already at a fairly high AOA, fell from the sky, I added power and pushed the nose forward, recovered, leveled the wings out, attempted another final, medium throttle, nose up a little, another obstical with no wind. This time too close to the ground, so I nosed down lightened the trottle to set it down and then it stalled,...oh yeah then it crashed. In haz mat terms the term is a 'wind rose', like for a plume of chemicals, There is a mathimatical simulator that will create the plume for you called ALOHA, The perimeter of the plume is called it's wind rose, conversely when an obstical is in the wind and there is an abcense of wind behind the obstical, you can find the bounders of the wind line, hence the obstical's wind rose or more correctly put wind shadow, Like an object casts a shadow on the ground, no letting light through, an object can also not allow wind through creating a wind shadow, sometimes creating turbulance sometimes not.
08-07-2007, 05:12 AM
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RE: Stupid, Stupid Stupid!
no no there is still air behind an object, therefore lift is maintained. what you're describing is turbulance. turbulance is different than lift. turbulance can and does have an adverse effect on flight. for example you were set up to fly a certain path based on the winds, perhaps a little left aileron. as you passed behind a tree the wind was blocked or perhaps swirled around the tree, suddenly you don't need that left aileron, now you're "over steering" to the left cause the force that required you to use left aileron has changed. however lift was maintained throughout.
08-07-2007, 11:37 AM
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RE: Stupid, Stupid Stupid!
i didnt mean that you will make extra lift. basically what i meant was the plane and/or pilot however you look at it, doesn't have to work as hard to get off the ground. you are right if a plane weighs 2500 pounds if the plane is flying it is producing 2500 pounds of lift no more no less. what i was getting at is wind speed is everything as far as lift goes, not ground speed. key word WIND. if a plane stalls at 59 then at 60 it has 2500 pounds of lift and at 160 it has 2500 pounds of lift. but at 59 it has less than 59 in other words it stalls or falls. what i mean is as far as leaving the ground, getting on the ground or crusing, wind is everything. planes are based on wind speed and that means everything.
08-07-2007, 01:31 PM
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RE: Stupid, Stupid Stupid!
Mmmm, another can of worms. Wind is only relevant to the ground. A plane will have a short decrease in lift when turning downwind until its groundspeed increases proportionally to the wind speed. A plane does not know any difference from a 10mph wind to 100mph wind. But if you are flying into a 100mph and turn downwind your ground speed would have to increase 100mph to achieve the same airspeed and same amount of lift. I have 2000 hours of flying spray planes and I assure you that when you turn downwind at the end of a pass with a heavy load you will notice a huge decrease in lift and you can feel the plane trying to fall out from under you. You must increase your angle of attack to maintain altitude while trying not to get to much angle of attack and stalling the plane.
When you go down wind with your plane you notice a lot higher speed in relation to the ground, but when you are going the other way into the wind the relative speed is much slower. In the case of a steady 10 mph wind you would have a speed difference of 20 mph in the two different directions, but the plane would not know the difference in either direction. One of the other problems you run into is in the time it takes to turn the plane. Groundspeed will affect your turn and the time or distance it takes to make it. If you are low and slow and on the verge of stalling a turn downwind will probably do you in. When you turn downwind, the last thing you want to do is pull the throttle back, you need to give it all possible power and try to get the plane to accelerate to regain a safe airspeed. The plane might look like it is screaming, but in reality is barely at flying speed so just do gentle turns until the plane is well under control.
Objects on the upwind side will cause severe turbulance and wind shadows how you like to put it. If you have a quartering crosswind with objects on the up wind side you will have pockets of dead air. When the plane hits the pockets of dead air it suddenly has a much lower airspeed even though the groundspeed seems to be about the same, if it is in the pocket long enough it could stall and fall to the ground before if has time to gain speed and continue flying out of it. Most of the time you will just notice the plane bumping around in the air and no harm will be done. When you land in these condition you need to carry extra speed to allow the plane to fly in the pockets without dropping to severely but sometimes it comes down to pilot skill and plane design. The best pilot could not recover in every situation but usually knows how to stay out of the situation that might be fatal to the aircraft or himself in real aircraft.
Hopefully I have fully confused everyone here as it is hard to put into words what your brain is trying to say, that everyone will understand. In time you will kinda feel what the plane is doing by the amount of stick control you are having to use to stay in the air, and will know when to relax the pressure and when to apply more pressure. Good luck on fixing your plane and keep the airspeed good and don't worry about groundspeed.
If you can't see it, don't hand me the controls!
When you go down wind with your plane you notice a lot higher speed in relation to the ground, but when you are going the other way into the wind the relative speed is much slower. In the case of a steady 10 mph wind you would have a speed difference of 20 mph in the two different directions, but the plane would not know the difference in either direction. One of the other problems you run into is in the time it takes to turn the plane. Groundspeed will affect your turn and the time or distance it takes to make it. If you are low and slow and on the verge of stalling a turn downwind will probably do you in. When you turn downwind, the last thing you want to do is pull the throttle back, you need to give it all possible power and try to get the plane to accelerate to regain a safe airspeed. The plane might look like it is screaming, but in reality is barely at flying speed so just do gentle turns until the plane is well under control.
Objects on the upwind side will cause severe turbulance and wind shadows how you like to put it. If you have a quartering crosswind with objects on the up wind side you will have pockets of dead air. When the plane hits the pockets of dead air it suddenly has a much lower airspeed even though the groundspeed seems to be about the same, if it is in the pocket long enough it could stall and fall to the ground before if has time to gain speed and continue flying out of it. Most of the time you will just notice the plane bumping around in the air and no harm will be done. When you land in these condition you need to carry extra speed to allow the plane to fly in the pockets without dropping to severely but sometimes it comes down to pilot skill and plane design. The best pilot could not recover in every situation but usually knows how to stay out of the situation that might be fatal to the aircraft or himself in real aircraft.
Hopefully I have fully confused everyone here as it is hard to put into words what your brain is trying to say, that everyone will understand. In time you will kinda feel what the plane is doing by the amount of stick control you are having to use to stay in the air, and will know when to relax the pressure and when to apply more pressure. Good luck on fixing your plane and keep the airspeed good and don't worry about groundspeed.
If you can't see it, don't hand me the controls!
08-07-2007, 02:16 PM
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RE: Stupid, Stupid Stupid!
ORIGINAL: waydown2low
Mmmm, another can of worms. Wind is only relevant to the ground. A plane will have a short decrease in lift when turning downwind until its groundspeed increases proportionally to the wind speed. A plane does not know any difference from a 10mph wind to 100mph wind. But if you are flying into a 100mph and turn downwind your ground speed would have to increase 100mph to achieve the same airspeed and same amount of lift. I have 2000 hours of flying spray planes and I assure you that when you turn downwind at the end of a pass with a heavy load you will notice a huge decrease in lift and you can feel the plane trying to fall out from under you. You must increase your angle of attack to maintain altitude while trying not to get to much angle of attack and stalling the plane.
When you go down wind with your plane you notice a lot higher speed in relation to the ground, but when you are going the other way into the wind the relative speed is much slower. In the case of a steady 10 mph wind you would have a speed difference of 20 mph in the two different directions, but the plane would not know the difference in either direction. One of the other problems you run into is in the time it takes to turn the plane. Groundspeed will affect your turn and the time or distance it takes to make it. If you are low and slow and on the verge of stalling a turn downwind will probably do you in. When you turn downwind, the last thing you want to do is pull the throttle back, you need to give it all possible power and try to get the plane to accelerate to regain a safe airspeed. The plane might look like it is screaming, but in reality is barely at flying speed so just do gentle turns until the plane is well under control.
Objects on the upwind side will cause severe turbulance and wind shadows how you like to put it. If you have a quartering crosswind with objects on the up wind side you will have pockets of dead air. When the plane hits the pockets of dead air it suddenly has a much lower airspeed even though the groundspeed seems to be about the same, if it is in the pocket long enough it could stall and fall to the ground before if has time to gain speed and continue flying out of it. Most of the time you will just notice the plane bumping around in the air and no harm will be done. When you land in these condition you need to carry extra speed to allow the plane to fly in the pockets without dropping to severely but sometimes it comes down to pilot skill and plane design. The best pilot could not recover in every situation but usually knows how to stay out of the situation that might be fatal to the aircraft or himself in real aircraft.
Hopefully I have fully confused everyone here as it is hard to put into words what your brain is trying to say, that everyone will understand. In time you will kinda feel what the plane is doing by the amount of stick control you are having to use to stay in the air, and will know when to relax the pressure and when to apply more pressure. Good luck on fixing your plane and keep the airspeed good and don't worry about groundspeed.
If you can't see it, don't hand me the controls!
Mmmm, another can of worms. Wind is only relevant to the ground. A plane will have a short decrease in lift when turning downwind until its groundspeed increases proportionally to the wind speed. A plane does not know any difference from a 10mph wind to 100mph wind. But if you are flying into a 100mph and turn downwind your ground speed would have to increase 100mph to achieve the same airspeed and same amount of lift. I have 2000 hours of flying spray planes and I assure you that when you turn downwind at the end of a pass with a heavy load you will notice a huge decrease in lift and you can feel the plane trying to fall out from under you. You must increase your angle of attack to maintain altitude while trying not to get to much angle of attack and stalling the plane.
When you go down wind with your plane you notice a lot higher speed in relation to the ground, but when you are going the other way into the wind the relative speed is much slower. In the case of a steady 10 mph wind you would have a speed difference of 20 mph in the two different directions, but the plane would not know the difference in either direction. One of the other problems you run into is in the time it takes to turn the plane. Groundspeed will affect your turn and the time or distance it takes to make it. If you are low and slow and on the verge of stalling a turn downwind will probably do you in. When you turn downwind, the last thing you want to do is pull the throttle back, you need to give it all possible power and try to get the plane to accelerate to regain a safe airspeed. The plane might look like it is screaming, but in reality is barely at flying speed so just do gentle turns until the plane is well under control.
Objects on the upwind side will cause severe turbulance and wind shadows how you like to put it. If you have a quartering crosswind with objects on the up wind side you will have pockets of dead air. When the plane hits the pockets of dead air it suddenly has a much lower airspeed even though the groundspeed seems to be about the same, if it is in the pocket long enough it could stall and fall to the ground before if has time to gain speed and continue flying out of it. Most of the time you will just notice the plane bumping around in the air and no harm will be done. When you land in these condition you need to carry extra speed to allow the plane to fly in the pockets without dropping to severely but sometimes it comes down to pilot skill and plane design. The best pilot could not recover in every situation but usually knows how to stay out of the situation that might be fatal to the aircraft or himself in real aircraft.
Hopefully I have fully confused everyone here as it is hard to put into words what your brain is trying to say, that everyone will understand. In time you will kinda feel what the plane is doing by the amount of stick control you are having to use to stay in the air, and will know when to relax the pressure and when to apply more pressure. Good luck on fixing your plane and keep the airspeed good and don't worry about groundspeed.
If you can't see it, don't hand me the controls!
08-07-2007, 05:37 PM
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RE: Stupid, Stupid Stupid!
ORIGINAL: ArCeeFlyer
Man, it's refreshing to see someone getting it right. It's the same thing I was trying to say earlier about "changes" in momentum (ground speed) and "changes" in windspeed/direction (external forces) that will affect the plane's airspeed for a short period until it regains it's previous momentum in order to get back to the previous airspeed. It can be gradual or sudden. I think dirtmagnet really meant airspeed, not windspeed. At least that is what he was describing. Anyway, knowing that these physics exist, it makes for more intuitive flying.
ORIGINAL: waydown2low
Mmmm, another can of worms. Wind is only relevant to the ground. A plane will have a short decrease in lift when turning downwind until its groundspeed increases proportionally to the wind speed. A plane does not know any difference from a 10mph wind to 100mph wind. But if you are flying into a 100mph and turn downwind your ground speed would have to increase 100mph to achieve the same airspeed and same amount of lift. I have 2000 hours of flying spray planes and I assure you that when you turn downwind at the end of a pass with a heavy load you will notice a huge decrease in lift and you can feel the plane trying to fall out from under you. You must increase your angle of attack to maintain altitude while trying not to get to much angle of attack and stalling the plane.
When you go down wind with your plane you notice a lot higher speed in relation to the ground, but when you are going the other way into the wind the relative speed is much slower. In the case of a steady 10 mph wind you would have a speed difference of 20 mph in the two different directions, but the plane would not know the difference in either direction. One of the other problems you run into is in the time it takes to turn the plane. Groundspeed will affect your turn and the time or distance it takes to make it. If you are low and slow and on the verge of stalling a turn downwind will probably do you in. When you turn downwind, the last thing you want to do is pull the throttle back, you need to give it all possible power and try to get the plane to accelerate to regain a safe airspeed. The plane might look like it is screaming, but in reality is barely at flying speed so just do gentle turns until the plane is well under control.
Objects on the upwind side will cause severe turbulance and wind shadows how you like to put it. If you have a quartering crosswind with objects on the up wind side you will have pockets of dead air. When the plane hits the pockets of dead air it suddenly has a much lower airspeed even though the groundspeed seems to be about the same, if it is in the pocket long enough it could stall and fall to the ground before if has time to gain speed and continue flying out of it. Most of the time you will just notice the plane bumping around in the air and no harm will be done. When you land in these condition you need to carry extra speed to allow the plane to fly in the pockets without dropping to severely but sometimes it comes down to pilot skill and plane design. The best pilot could not recover in every situation but usually knows how to stay out of the situation that might be fatal to the aircraft or himself in real aircraft.
Hopefully I have fully confused everyone here as it is hard to put into words what your brain is trying to say, that everyone will understand. In time you will kinda feel what the plane is doing by the amount of stick control you are having to use to stay in the air, and will know when to relax the pressure and when to apply more pressure. Good luck on fixing your plane and keep the airspeed good and don't worry about groundspeed.
If you can't see it, don't hand me the controls!
Mmmm, another can of worms. Wind is only relevant to the ground. A plane will have a short decrease in lift when turning downwind until its groundspeed increases proportionally to the wind speed. A plane does not know any difference from a 10mph wind to 100mph wind. But if you are flying into a 100mph and turn downwind your ground speed would have to increase 100mph to achieve the same airspeed and same amount of lift. I have 2000 hours of flying spray planes and I assure you that when you turn downwind at the end of a pass with a heavy load you will notice a huge decrease in lift and you can feel the plane trying to fall out from under you. You must increase your angle of attack to maintain altitude while trying not to get to much angle of attack and stalling the plane.
When you go down wind with your plane you notice a lot higher speed in relation to the ground, but when you are going the other way into the wind the relative speed is much slower. In the case of a steady 10 mph wind you would have a speed difference of 20 mph in the two different directions, but the plane would not know the difference in either direction. One of the other problems you run into is in the time it takes to turn the plane. Groundspeed will affect your turn and the time or distance it takes to make it. If you are low and slow and on the verge of stalling a turn downwind will probably do you in. When you turn downwind, the last thing you want to do is pull the throttle back, you need to give it all possible power and try to get the plane to accelerate to regain a safe airspeed. The plane might look like it is screaming, but in reality is barely at flying speed so just do gentle turns until the plane is well under control.
Objects on the upwind side will cause severe turbulance and wind shadows how you like to put it. If you have a quartering crosswind with objects on the up wind side you will have pockets of dead air. When the plane hits the pockets of dead air it suddenly has a much lower airspeed even though the groundspeed seems to be about the same, if it is in the pocket long enough it could stall and fall to the ground before if has time to gain speed and continue flying out of it. Most of the time you will just notice the plane bumping around in the air and no harm will be done. When you land in these condition you need to carry extra speed to allow the plane to fly in the pockets without dropping to severely but sometimes it comes down to pilot skill and plane design. The best pilot could not recover in every situation but usually knows how to stay out of the situation that might be fatal to the aircraft or himself in real aircraft.
Hopefully I have fully confused everyone here as it is hard to put into words what your brain is trying to say, that everyone will understand. In time you will kinda feel what the plane is doing by the amount of stick control you are having to use to stay in the air, and will know when to relax the pressure and when to apply more pressure. Good luck on fixing your plane and keep the airspeed good and don't worry about groundspeed.
If you can't see it, don't hand me the controls!
EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!! oh yeah and I CRASHED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
08-07-2007, 08:10 PM
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RE: Stupid, Stupid Stupid!
EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!! oh yeah and I CRASHED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
scale boys. I always trust a man who lives and dies by the "rules" rather than those who stand on the ground and watch. (like me
) Now I'm going to go back and re-read all of that again.
08-07-2007, 09:13 PM
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RE: Stupid, Stupid Stupid!
Hopefully I have fully confused everyone here as it is hard to put into words what your brain is trying to say
08-07-2007, 11:08 PM
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RE: Stupid, Stupid Stupid!
Schwatd,
You know, I am always reluctant to post my misfortunes in this thread. There is a small group that tends to divert the thread's topic to mundane and overbearing arguements of who knows more about aviation concepts.
People sometimes forget THIS is a hobby. Something that is done for FUN. May an unknowing or newcomer learn from our mistakes and prevent a similar occurance.
BTW, you cant rebuild the F-22 yet. You still have a "small" C-130 to construct.
Mike
You know, I am always reluctant to post my misfortunes in this thread. There is a small group that tends to divert the thread's topic to mundane and overbearing arguements of who knows more about aviation concepts.
People sometimes forget THIS is a hobby. Something that is done for FUN. May an unknowing or newcomer learn from our mistakes and prevent a similar occurance.
BTW, you cant rebuild the F-22 yet. You still have a "small" C-130 to construct.
Mike