Zoned

My Feedback: (14)

Hi, Can the experienced crashers give me some tips. I have the H9 1/4 cap and I am terrified to fly it after reading all the posts about them snapping. What can I do to be ready for this, and how can I save the plane and prevent this from happening.


Thanks
Pat

Tim_Indy

Zoned, it seems to me that all an experienced crasher can do is tell you how to do what they did to become experienced crashers.

Set the plane up right to start with, and you don't have to worry. More info is at: http://www.rcuniverse.com/showthread...2286#post60512 .

I've got one with 300 flights on it, over 3 years and it's STILL flying! The way you set the plane up determines whether it will "float like a butterfly or STING like a BEE!""

FlyinRazorback

My Feedback: (8)

A buddy of mine was flying this 300S and doing fine. The egine stalled and hw was deadstick. The plane was gliding perfectly and then the right wing snapped and the plane went down. Luckily, the only real damage was the engine mount was pulled off along with the landing gear.

LYLE "D".

HEY RAZOR....DOES YOUR BUDDY WANT TO SELL THAT WING?? I'll take it off his hands, Warp and all!!!

stevezero

My Feedback: (11)

Just do alot of approaches high up on the first few flights. Resist the urge to do a bunch of stick banging, and see how the plane reacts at slow speeds at least 1-2 mistakes high. You can watch and learn what the plane will do consistently, and more importantly, learn the SUBTLE inputs that will help you anticipate and reduce the likelyhood of a spin, as well as increase your chances of recovery. If others are flying the same plane, or others similar in size/performance, watch them on approach. See what works, see what doesnt. Ask questions, ALOT of questions. Have a highly experienced pilot test fly it if youre not comfortable with taking it up the first time. They can also check the balance, throws, etc. Setting aside your pride has saved many airplanes.
Good Luck,
Steve

bash-ace-RCU

My Feedback: (16)

The biggest thing to watch for with a Cap is to keep the nose down when flying slowly (unless your doing a harrier or something), due to the stab location, the wing masks airflow over the stab at high angles of attack thus inducing a stalled stab, not a wing tip stall like many folks believe, this is even true with the Cap 21's. Caps like to drop the tail when cruising in on the edge of a stall (if balanced for aerobatics), increasing the chance of a stalled sitiuation, just keep on the power a little and the nose down and you shouldn't have any problems. Practice exchanging altitude for airspeed on your approaches, keeping the nose slightly down and you will be able to float your cap in. These are just some of what I have experienced flying Caps for 15 years, some of the habits could be different with the much larger Caps due to different reynolds numbers.

ninefingers

My Feedback: (18)

Zoned, I own a Sig Cap-231 which is very similar in design to the h-9 Cap-232. People warned me and got my anxiety up before I flew it the first time just like you. Finally someone gave me some concrete info rather than just scareing me that I was going to snap either taking off or landing the first time I flew it. Heres what to do! First, you need dual rates, either computer of not. You should have one with a plane of this size and type. DO NOT get carried away with extreme elevator! I know it looks cool showing your buddys that you can turn it 45 degrees but dont! Actually its ok to set up high rates that way. The rudder and aileron set up is not as critical as elevator (as far as snapping goes). The trick is to get LOW RATE ELEVATOR set up correctly. First, set them by the book. Take off level, pulling up gently that first time. After you get the trims set up and fly around a few times or even a few flights do this: Go up real high, fly across in front of you about medium throttle. Pull hard back all the way on the elevator (still low rates) and watch what the plane does. If it goes straight up you're in business. If it tips to one side (stalls) you need to land and take a little throw out. If you get this set right then you are assured that if you get in one of those situations when your brain stops functioning (happens to us all) and you rock back all the way on that elevator, your plane will not tip. What the other members above said about keeping nose down and not flying too slow are very critical and will cause ANY plane to stall. At least now you know its going to be you and not something beyond your control that makes the plane snap. My two cents

ninefingers

My Feedback: (18)

Zoned, I need to add something. When you are testing the plane and it does indeed tip stall heres what to (asuming you're high enough ) IMMEDIATELY LET GO OF THE ELEVATOR, the nose should be pointing down at this point, when you've got your airspeed back, GENTLY pull back on the elevator to level off. Now when your heart stops pounding grin and say to your self "I just did a controlled snap!" Now land and fix the elevator.

jaka

Hello!
You dont have to be afraid about "snapping" any airplane if you just follow some simple rules...they are:

1. Build light! Lightly built airplanes fly better and are much more tollerant againt snaprolls!!!

2. When you build a plane....allways ask yourself if there is any pieces of wood that is not totally necessary to use...Much wood such as parts of spars, ribs and plywoodparts could be sanded away using a Dremel and a drumsander.

3. Have the center of gravity at 20-25% of the wing cord.

4. Never use too much elevator trow.On a SIG CAP 231EX 2-3cm up and 2-3cm down is enough.
C/G put at 10-12cm from leading edge at the fuselage

5. See to that you have as small gap between the
elevator and stab and wing and ailerons,if you have a cap seal it with tape....!!

6. Always use a good mechanical servo installation.Minimize use of electronic servotravel adjustment, always use 100-150% of traveladjustment on the radio. That means that you have to put the linkage clevis as much to the centre of the servoarm you can!(Even drill new holes)This is what you should alvways strive for......this will minimize play.....
And always use as long elevator horn as possible, at least this is what you should strive for, never use the inner holes on the horn.
You should be able to push real hard on the elevator whitout it deflecting even a one mm.....
The same goes for the ailerons.

7. Always balance your plane lateraly....put weight in one wingtip so that the plane hangs in balance without dropping a wingtip.

There is not a singel model airplane out there that is not going to fly well if you follow these simple rules.

Regards!
Jan Karlsson
Sweden

crash and burn

My Feedback: (19)

Well, your concern was exactly what I worried about when I got into the bigger scale aerobatic models. I am very new at this (started flying last June) and have bite off a big chunk. I now fly a 36% AW edge 540 with a 6.4 Brison!! I know, what am I thinking.

Truth is, BIGGER FLYS BETTER!! My 36% (105" wing),floats in to landings better than any model I own. My 60/90 (64" wing).AW edge is a bit on the squirely side.

I find that if you control your elevator with a gentle touch and keep your wings level, you will have no problems with snaps or stalls. And as the previous fella mentioned, get the CG and lateral balance right, that is a huge key to success.

Try a simulator sometime and put the rates up to the 3-d ranges. If you come in to land and over work the stick with an elevator set up on 3-d, you will snap! So take it very easy and set up with low rates for a while.

Also, get some altitude and purposely try to slow and stall the plane. Cut back the throttle and as the plane slows, give up elevator and see if the nose tends to drop or the wing tips drop. This will tell you what to expect at what speed you landing.

Good luck and give up an update.

Tom

Zoned

My Feedback: (14)

I do have practice getting out of snaps because a .40 mustang I HAD snapped very easily.It's last snap was inverted at the top of a loop way too low when the engine quit. The guys keep telling me the 1/4 cap won't fly anything like a 40 size plane.I did notice I don't like a touchy elevator even on a 40 size plane. I can't wait to fly my cap to get the gitters out of my system. The only problem is I won't be able to fly it for a month or so because I'm too busy at work. It's killing me!


Thanks for all the responces
Pat

F16FxR4real

My Feedback: (2)

Is EXACTLY correct and I have a HARD time convincnig people that his reasoning is the EXACT reason I see a lot of short fuselage planes go in. People like to believe that the main wing stalled and don't understand the horizontal stab is at just as great a risk at stalling as the main wing if not more when you are flying short tail moment aircraft. Many aircraft have the stab in a "blind spot" from the main wing and an easy way to think about it is to imagine two lines drawn horizontally from the leading edge and trailing edge of the wing and then tilt it forward and backward, the main wing creates a void in the horiz. stabs airflow creating your stab stall.

CAP232CM

My Feedback: (8)

To start with the recommened throws for the elavator are way to much. Any more than a 1/2" and it will snap out of a loop. Go by this and use about 40% expo, if you have a computer radio and you will not snap the plane. I use 1/2" for low rates, 1" for high rates, and all you can get for 3D.