splitzed

Hi everyone, I maidened my busa Citabria Pro this summer, my buddy got some great footage of the event as it started to dive. I'm looking for some feedback from some of you more experienced pilots, on what may have caused this. The plane came in a little over 12 lbs, plans call for 11 1/4 lbs. I'm Using a 26 cc gas engine with an 18 x 8 prop. The plane is balanced a touch nose heavy, I have a little aileron differential dialed in, about a 1/4 inch on the down throw on each aileron. I still don't fly with rudder very consistantly, but i have a bit mixed in with my ailerons. Iseemed to have lots of airspeed at the time it went down, I'm a little perplexed??

Any advice would be greatly appreciated for my re- maiden attempt she's fixed up good as new again!!

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=E1Bb_2Wcdhw

scooty

Control surface flutter, caused one or more of your servos to strip. Possible radio interference from the engine's ignition system. Did you range check it. Radio/battery failure, what radio system were you using?

mandtra

My Feedback: (29)

It's hard to know. Kinda looked like pilot error. did you try pulling it back to idle and try to straighten her out? or did you panic and watch it go down? at the start of the flight the plane was porposing quite a bit

alan0899

G'day Mate,
Aileron applied, & held, no up elevator applied, no corrective aileron, ground came up, crash happened.
Pilot needs more experience.

divergoff

looks to me like the classic low level stall spin.

jetmech05

that aircraft was always rolling to the left (aircraft left)....even the death sprial was to the planes left.....if that was the maiden flight, then aileron trim needed to be adjusted....it also seems to me that the airplane was sensitive to the stick input...in pitch and roll....either pilot error or too much throw....bottom line too much angle of bank and she tip stalled

safeTwire

My Feedback: (2)

Firstly, Very nice build and you have a great field to fly at!

According to the attitude ( bank and pitch ) of the plane just before control was lost, IF you had input any control function's other than right aileron and up elevator...THEN what the aircraft did next was sure to happen IMO.

Of course I am talking about returning to straight and level flight and not about control inputs that a seasoned acrobatic pilot could get away with.

splitzed

Wow, thanks for all the speedy responses, I have no problem acknowleging that pilot error was the problem, I'm still a fairly new pilot and learning each time I fly. so what it looks like is that the angle of the turn was too steep, If I remember correctly I was probably so excited watching the thing in the air I just held the left aileron for too long and didn't correct to level off the wings. Makes sence to me.

I think when I try again I'll have a more experienced pilot fly it for a while, get it trimmed and confirm that everything is set up properly (balance, throws, incedence ect...)

Thanks guy's

Trevor

safeTwire

My Feedback: (2)

Sounds like a good game plan Trevor. Good Luck!

mjfrederick

My take on it is this: I don't think it had anything to do with a stall as the airplane was moving way too fast. Looked like you entered an incorrect correction (left aileron) due to being temporarily disoriented. When the airplane didn't do what you expected it to do you panicked and pulled full up elevator. Unfortunately the airplane was already inverted so this caused you to pull into a dive rather than a climb. Most people dumb-thumb one in at some point. Just use it as a learning experience. At least the damage didn't look near as bad as I thought it would.

BobHH

My Feedback: (18)

Well, I've flown one of these and they are great fliers. Make sure to check your incidence of the wing in relation to the tail. It appears to me you may have gotten a bit confused turning toward yourself as the model appears to have good speed and looks like after your are almost inverted it got more left aileron to tighten up the roll. It looks that way to me on the video. As for being too slow the model I flew would slow down to a crawl and perform 3 point landings all day without any hint of tip stalling or snapping. She wll snap quite violently when asked but general flying is like a big trainer. Hope this helps.

Bob Harris

Villa

I don't see a stall there at all. However, someone mentioned it could not be a stall because the air speed was high. I believe that is wrong. I have had about 4 high speed stalls. They are heart stoppers. In your case I believe getting confused from lack of experience is the likely answer. Learn to use the rudder by intentionally flying with out the use of ailerons. Do this until you are comfortable. It can save your plane some day if the ailerons have a problem. Fly in both a left hand pattern and a right hand pattern. Good luck.

psb667

unmix your rudder other than that tune and trim you lucky %$#@ cant believe thats all the damage ive done exactly what you did though wind took it over into a stall and up is down down is up. cool plane

Johnnie Red

Hey Trevor,
Agree with the rest about big throws. So on your next time you can put DUAL Rates on elevator and ailerons....
Never work on mixes in your basic channels. (Rudder - ailerons are both basic chanels). Try to make some experience in flight sims and learn the good way. Mixes can disorientate you and possibly help you on your next crash.
Thats my 2cents
JR

divergoff

mjfrederick:

It may not have been a stall that caused this crash, but airspeed has nothing to do w/ stalling. An airplane can stall and any speed and any configuration. It has only to do with angle of attack, which is pretty high in a tight high speed turn.

NorfolkSouthern

I saw the same thing. I have a .40 sized Citabria, and find that I am using the rudder to keep the tail up on turns. I also use the ailerons to keep the wing from banking too steeply. If you have a simulator, then you may benefit by practicing flat turns. This means using the rudder to turn, while keeping the wing level with the ailerons. As your spotter noted: Citabrias are not meant for speed so they don't need much engine power. And they're really not that difficult to fly. Like a Cub, but with a little more responsiveness. Once you get the aileron differential/rudder turns down, it gets a lot easier. You'll no longer need to fly on the prop, and your Citabria Pro will help you improve your skills significantly. You will have mastered flying on the wing. Which, in my opinion, is what RC flying is all about.

NorfolkSouthern

splitzed

Yup im pretty much convinced now, my main error was holding in the left aileron input too long, I will reduce the throws a tad as well.

I found this video of a very nice dc 10, obviously a very experienced pilot caught in almost the exact same predicament, high speed stall, turn too steep. I don't feel quite so bad, realizing these things happen to the best of us. That would have been one very expensive mistake, poor guy!!

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=61vt9JA7zeU

NorfolkSouthern

Take heart, Splitzed. You deserve a lot of credit for building a very strong structure that's also serviceable. I think it will easily outlast any ARF. Consider this plane as your trainer, as it will teach you some good habits that will save you a lot of money later. You are on your way to becomming a great pilot.

NorfolkSouthern

psb667

You guys rock my cub (fly zone bashnburn) did the same thing right after i put ailerons on it.

Blade-breaker

My Feedback: (4)

Nice looking plane.

When you have your more experienced pilot trim it out for you. You might also want to set up a trainer box.

Good luck man, we have all been there!

StingRayZ09

Nice Video, I wish I had some video taping my mishaps. I've seen radio glitchs do that and Pliot panic. hard to tell. I like to build them and watch them fly I myself can only fly 5min at a time. Hope to see new fight video..

Props4ever

Hey Trevor,

Sorry for the crash but first i have to say you have built a very strong airplane there man!, after seeing it dive into ground like that and with so little damage i was stunned!, it's very good and solid airframe you have built there and looks beautiful airplane too. Now for the crash, i don't think high or low speed stall was the cause, being such an acrobatic plane and touchy type i would say it was more input error and not knowing what to do and react as when it went into roll and dived.

During my re-training days some years ago i had similar incident also with my Tri pacer on one of the flights i was coming in for approach, what turned out in my case that elevator horn stripped from the elevator and plane lost it's horizontal stability, it also rolled and went into dive but my plane was a lot more damage that it ended up being write off in the end.

These things do happen to all of us at times, so do take this as learning curve and not to heart and rebuilt her as damage seems to be minimal and get her back in air soon....Yeah it would be good to let her fly first couple of times by more experienced pilot so when you get to fly her, she is all trimmed out for you....

Cheers,
Sam

mjfrederick

I'm not looking for a lesson in aerodynamics. I'm well aware of what causes a stall. Would you have preferred that I said I felt he was moving so fast that I didn't believe he would have had enough elevator throw to cause enough of an instantaneous change in angle of attack to initiate a stall? Too much for this forum, we're talking crashes, not aerodynamics... I'd rather just say I felt he was moving too fast to have stalled the airplane.

bkdavy

My Feedback: (1)

You're statement that you're still a fairly new pilot leads me to believe you made a classic beginner error. I see my students do this all the time at the beginning of their training. They input too much aileron and end up with too steep a bank. The nose drops, as it will with most planes and enters the dive. Once you entered the dive, it looks like the plane started to snap roll, which can occur on the downline due to application of the up elevator. The student, not having enough experience, doesn't react quickly enough. Had you been on a buddy box, and instructor probably would have easily recovered and gotten you back on track by releasing all control inputs then gently applying throttle and up elevator to pull out. I suspect the combination of nerves, maiden flight, and inexperience created the deadly brew that caused the plane to crash.

For your next attempt, I recommend a more experience pilot trim it out for you, and put you on a buddy box is one is available.

Brad

bart5495

Just looking thru the thread. You have a Nice looking citabria. I viewed the video of your crash. What I saw was this, you may have not stopped the roll to the left, then it became inverted and that's all she wrote. I think it may help if you learned how to do coordinated turns using all three control surfaces. The parasol wing is not known for it's ability to return to level flight on it's own. Your Citabria fly's close to a full scale plane and will demand good piloting skills. Remember the more you bank the plane you will need up elevator and power to maintain altitude. you have got to stop the roll with oposite aerolong imput. I'm a ful scall pilot and flying these models from the ground is much harder.

Doug