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Global Skyraider Repair

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Old 07-07-2009, 05:33 PM
  #1
TEBerg
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Default Global Skyraider Repair

Sad to say, I have a reason to add a post to this Crash & Rebuild Forum.

The Skyraider I worked on for over a year (post here: [link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_7276786/tm.htm]Global Skyraider Build[/link]) is no longer flying...

Went down July 5, 2009 at the MARCS field. I had just finished up re-tuning the engine and did another range check with the engine running and all was good (100 feet away with the antenna down).

Flew her around the field for a few laps and checked out the trim. I had just installed a new rudder pushrod but didn't even need any new trims.

Nice smooth throttle response, nice straight loop and decided to make another lap before landing.

Heading east so I could make a turn into the wind for a gear inspection pass I lost control… No response on the controls and the plane started a slow right turn. I got some intermittent control and managed to turn around, line her up facing west over the runway and dropped the gear.

I was kind of hopeful that I just had one bad radio hit and I could level the wings and fly her down to a landing. I did not put the flaps down or make any other changes.

Then she banked one wing down and nosed over. Crashed into the runway from about 100 feet up…

The gear is torn out and the wing kind of banged up. The nylon bolts broke free of the wing and that probably saved a lot of damage. There is one big hole in the top sheeting, but the wing is not destroyed.

The fuselage is shattered in several places and broken in half. The engine mount is broken and the engine has a cracked valve cover, bent needle assembly and bashed up crankshaft threads (probably bent also)…

So, I don’t know for sure what caused the glitch (s). I’ll send the receiver in to JR and check if there is something broken. I checked what I could and the ailerons and throttle were working afterward. The rudder and elevator were stripped out with the tail being torn apart.

After some more post-crash review – and mourning time I think that I may be able to get her back together [literally]...

The left side broke behind the wing hold down and did not split very far forward. The right Side broke along the fuselage doubler joint and split under the thick balsa stringer about 1/2-way forward to the firewall.

The rear half [again literally] is split down the right side between the turtle deck and the side. The left side and turtle deck seem to be one piece.

The break between the front and rear broke the top sheeting right off the turtle deck former.

I think it may glue back together with some attention to securing the sheeting on the turtle deck. I will double up inside the fuselage where the sides split. This will probably be done with a lot of Gorilla Glue. I like the way it foams and fills in gaps.

There is a split or crease right in front of the vertical stabilizer. It feels solid but there is definitely a wrinkle in the MonoKote between the filler blocks and the turtle deck. I do not see any cracks beneath the horizontal stab. At this time, I think it may be the result of the turtle deck sheeting and not from the tail fins pulling loose.

So – The plan of attack is to work my way from the back forward and then from the nose to the middle and get everything solid. Then, hopefully the two halves will join as one solid piece.

My Radio (TX, RX and some damaged servos) are on there way to Horizon and the engine is going to Global Services. Hopefully it can all be repaired pretty easy.

Here are a few photos. Two of the last warbird event in June, one of a landing pass last week and several of her “current condition”. The last photo is not the best, but I highlighted the area of where the covering is creased.

With luck, this will go back together well.
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Old 07-07-2009, 06:41 PM
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Default RE: Global Skyraider Repair

I'll tiptoe into your thread and offer condolences. My sig may seem contradictory to offering sympathy, it relates to how we publicly and privately behave in the seconds and minutes after a crash. And it relates to our attitudes if someone is truly caught up in an accident and we lose a plane as a result. We move on!

Your airplane will be back in the wild blue yonder in no time. I hope you revisit this thread with pictures when the airplane is repaired to better than new, and a report regarding your radio and receiver.
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Old 07-08-2009, 12:11 AM
  #3
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Default RE: Global Skyraider Repair

WestCoast, no problem stopping buy...

I have been flying and crashing for almost 30 years now... Some as easy to figure out like when water made the switch go bad in my float plane and she went for a swim.. Other crashes are tougher..

I will post the cause of the crash if I ever get a definite answer.. Almost like I hope they find something.. Otherwise, it may just be one of those things...

I will also post pics like I did building. I have had good suggestions from some of the guys I fly with about how to get her back together.

As we proceed, I will take photos of the steps.

Thanks,
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Old 07-08-2009, 02:39 AM
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Default RE: Global Skyraider Repair

I've been crashing RC almost 20 years. I hope you can put to rest what caused that crash.

All the best and happy flying.
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Old 07-15-2009, 04:39 PM
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Default RE: Global Skyraider Repair

This past week I have been working on some Skyraider repairs. The engine and radio have also been sent in to the manufacturers.

The first photo shows the landing gear where they were torn out of the wing. One gear is rotated 90 degrees from where it should be in the down position because the rotator gear popped out of the holes in the retract frame. Also, both gear will not lock down to 100 degrees because the lift links were bent.

The second photo shows the gear dissembled and the good news was that only one lift link in each gear (left side) was bent. So, I only needed to re-order ½-set of links to replace the spare parts I had on-hand.

The third photo is the start of new 3/16 wire to mount the Robostruts onto the rotator gears. I make a nice flat spot under one set screw and then I cut an “X” under the 2nd set screw. I fine the “X” technique works great for places where you don’t need “maximum” holding but still allows the set screw to bite into the wire (Like most wheel collars).

The fourth photo is the wing ready to have the landing gear rails glued back in place. Not too much damage under the bottom of the wing. I have a photo for the next post that shows a repair to a nice hole in the top. The mounts were pretty easy to prepare with just a little clean-up and sanding.

The last photo is gluing the landing gear rails/blocks back into the wing. I bolted the hardwood rails back onto the gear and used a temporary wire leg to line them up. I used 30-minute epoxy for the rails, then a mix of 30-minute epoxy and milled fiberglass to add a fillet with the plywood wing rib underneath. Then I made a quick repair to the front balsa block with some Gorilla Glue on the one gear pod.
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Old 07-15-2009, 04:55 PM
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Default RE: Global Skyraider Repair

After the landing gear, which did take a couple of days to work through, I went on to fix a nice hole on top of the wing. If there is such a thing as a nice hole in the wing [smile].

The first photo is where I cleaned up the balsa and added doublers under the sheeting.

The second photo shows what ended up being a pretty quick and sturdy repair. It should just take a bit of filler and sanding before I replace the grey Monokote.

The evening after the wing repairs I pulled out the plans and traced out the plywood parts of the fuselage sides to make a set of new doublers. The third photo is just a quick picture of the basic template… I LOVE good old Carbon Paper for just this type of task. Funny - I had to show my son what carbon paper was [laugh].

The fourth photo shows where I started to cut into the damage to make way for repairs. I’m cutting the former out in the area of the future light-ply doubler. I will go with four pieces of light-ply. One on each side of the back fuselage to repair the broken sides and then a doubler over each of those repairs that runs forward into the radio compartment.

The fifth photo shows the end of last nights work where I’m using gorilla glue to repair the split plywood side. I have already used thin CA to repair the split near the horizontal stabilizer and up the sides of the fuselage (where the covering is removed below the blue tape). I like Gorilla glue because when you dampen the wood, the glue foams up to fill any gaps. It is also pretty easy to sand.

Tonight I plan on cleaning up all the rough edges from the broken sides and get a nice flush fit between the front and back halves.

Since I’m going with a nice doubler, I plan on cutting off all the jagged edges from the plywood breaks and NOT trying to fit the little broken “fingers” of wood back together. I will also add a couple of braces between the front and back of the turtle deck.
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Old 07-18-2009, 12:59 AM
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Default RE: Global Skyraider Repair

Hello TE BERG Hope every thing goes back together OK Gotta love the raiders Ive had mine for around 6 years now dont fly her much now I did such a good job on it for my first camo job I just like lookin at her now and then! Good Luck here is mine!
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Old 07-18-2009, 01:28 PM
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Default RE: Global Skyraider Repair

You're doing a great job so far, very impressive.

Have you heard back from Horizon on the radio, receiver and servos?

I once had a Futaba receiver that was involved in a lot of my crashes. It always behaved normally, I never suspected an issue with it. I thought I was getting hit so many times I took a spectrum analyzer to the field I flew at, and once even had a telecommunications friend come out with some industrial gear to see what was going on. Never found anything. A few years later, just by dumb luck, working on another project with that receiver hooked up on a scope, I saw intermittent drop outs of the receiver. If I hadn't been staring at the scope I would have never seen it. So my question is, when you send a radio or receiver in to get checked, I wonder how they check for intermittent problems? Do they sit on a stool and stare at a scope for a half hour? Obviously not, I wonder how they check.
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Old 07-20-2009, 02:43 PM
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Default RE: Global Skyraider Repair

Mad Dog,

That is a nice looking Skyraider… I still think the panel lines add a great touch to the scale looks.

I checked in on the engine at Global Services and radio at Horizon last Friday. Global got the engine July 9th. They have about 1-2 week repair times, so I should know something in the next day or so.

My radio was checked in at Horizon on the 13th and they have a 4-6 week repair time… With luck they will get the radio and RX looked at sooner.

WestCoast… I have no idea how they check for “all” problems. Since I don’t even have a scope myself, they are way ahead of me just range testing on the ground, which I do with the engine off and running to attempt to simulate flight conditions.

I have heard someone say that Horizon will put parts on a shaker table and test everything while it is being vibrated. But, I don’t know if this is for every case or have any idea what they consider complete diagnostics.

Any way, I agree there is no real way to chase an intermittent problem – just like with a car. You were lucky to see something the time you did. Hey, how crazy does your wife think you are when you turn on the plane and radio and sit there just to watch everything?? [laugh].. My wife doesn't even ask about some things any more [laughing]....

It helps me to work off the understanding that I flew my first RC with a HeathKit radio my dad assembled. Many years before that technology Dad flew his first RC with single-channel escapement radio. There were radio problems back then and we sometimes crashed as a result… But we flew and we had a lot of fun doing it…

If they say everything appears safe, I'll give it all a try.. If something is definitely wrong, it will be fixed or replaced...
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Old 07-20-2009, 04:18 PM
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Default RE: Global Skyraider Repair

Hey Tom,

It doesn't look that bad of a crash, wing seems to be pretty much intact for the most of it, fuselage split in two where main fuselage halfs are originally joined together at the built time.

It would be very interesting what you fine about radio problem, i have lost two plane due to "hit" on same channel at one event but few years apart with two different planes!.

If you have made doublers to reinforce fuselage sides, that should take care of the area and it should come together fairly easily, but watch for alignment when re-assembling it, you may want to align fuselage with wing in the saddle also. This way you can tack it together after doing ur measurements before actually glueing and adding reinforcement doublers to it.

Your rebuild as not as complicated as my Lear Jet's is, you should have it together way before my Learjet gets to see air once again..
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Old 07-21-2009, 06:28 PM
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Default RE: Global Skyraider Repair

The next steps were to get the two turtle deck formers apart and the braces installed between the top turtle deck sections. The good news (and bad) was that the formers were only glued together in about 5 places with the epoxy I used and were pretty easy to cut apart. You can see in the first photo there are some cut marks on the back of the front former. However, this limited amount of actual contact still ripped the former out of the back turtle deck.

Then as Paul suggested, I added some ¼-inch thick spruce strips between the balsa stringers as braces. The first photo also shows the braces glued into the front turtle deck.

The second photo shows the former being glued into the back turtle deck. I turned it around to give me a bit more of a “fresh” surface for the re-glue. You can also see the slots cut for the spruce braces that run into the back turtle deck and are glued onto the balsa sheeting and stringers.

The last photo shows the fuselage being glued back together. The sides are clamped flush, the turtle decks are pinned and taped as best they could be and another wood clamp taped in place to keep the top as flush laterally as I could get it.

The bottom part is just glued with the broken sides butt up against the opposites. I was lucky to have a couple good land marks with a long diagonal from the original fuselage side on one half and a pretty clean break against the wing hold-down blocks on the other.

The front and back halves were glued with gorilla glue, so I wouldn’t make a mess that could not be sanded down… As it ended up, after this juggle, I still put a couple of nice glue finger prints right up by the canopy and bomb markings…[:@] Did I mention I hate rebuilding airplanes!
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Old 07-21-2009, 06:55 PM
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Default RE: Global Skyraider Repair

Since the front of the fuselage had two thickness of plywood and the back only one, I started off the “splice” by adding a single layer of light-ply in the back halves. This worked out well to add reinforcement to the back sides before splicing it back to the front.

The first photo shows the outside left where I have the major breaks clamped to the doubler. There is also a nice amount of gorilla glue foaming out between the cracks.

The second photo is a bit orange, but it shows how the doubler is being glued where I cut out the old fuselage former and flush with the front sides.

The next photo shows the “joining/splice” doublers clamped onto both fuselage sides. Again, you can see some more gorilla glue foaming out the edges. I’m trying to complete this with gorilla glue because it sands off pretty easy and will foam up to fill any gaps (like I had in the original turtle deck formers).

The next photos show the additional layers I have added. The fourth photo is the left inside splice. The splices are glued into the top balsa stringers, around the old fuselage former, up to the top turtle deck, along the bottom of the rear fuselage and around the wing hold-down blocks.

The fifth photo shows the layers used on the left side. First you see the broken original sides, then the rear “doubler” and splice piece with word (left) scribbled on it.

The last photo is the right side. You can see where the splice does not extend back as far because this side was not splintered apart. However, it does extend a bit farther forward because this side is the one that split down the diagonal on the fuselage. Again, you can see the gorilla glue foaming out the little triangle that is missing from the fuselage side below the thick balsa stringer.

Next, I’ll go over the repair with some rough sand paper and get the rough stuff knocked down. Then I’ll give her a coat of filler and smooth sand the repair…

With luck, using Gorilla Glue and Light-ply has saved some weight and I won’t need too much extra lead on the front.
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Old 07-22-2009, 11:15 PM
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Default RE: Global Skyraider Repair

Tom, your repair is looking really good! It's sad to see an airplane show up here, but I'm sure you realize a thread such as this one, and all the threads in the C and R forum are a positive contribution to the modeling community.

Your post #9 regarding wives and sitting and staring at things made me laugh. Maybe I'd still be married if I hadn't done so much staring off into space when they were trying to talk to me lol. Women don't appreciate that behavior so here's a pre-marriage tip on the Crash and Repair (appropriate) forum: Guys, try not to marry a big talker. Vast amounts of time in your life will be spent "listening." :-) So, try to develop some sort of hobby you can do as she tells you every last tiny detail of the past 12 hours of her life. For example, encourage her to talk to you as she's making your dinner while you snack and enjoy your favorite beverage lol. Just kidding ladies! You men do the cooking, let her talk, she needs you to listen.

Anyway, thanks for the thread Tom, looking forward to seeing it finished and the thread ended!
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Old 07-23-2009, 11:20 AM
  #14
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Default RE: Global Skyraider Repair

Here are two pics of my AD from this morning.
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Old 07-23-2009, 09:35 PM
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Default RE: Global Skyraider Repair

WOW is all I can say you did a good job putting her back together agian Looks like shes ready for another sorti Excelent job!
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Old 07-23-2009, 11:47 PM
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Default RE: Global Skyraider Repair

Maddog,

Well, if you're talking about the two photos right above your post - She is ready for another sortie... But, they are pics of Morgy's plane and NOT my crashed Skyraider[]

Sorry about the confusion..

I'll be putting filler on my bird tomorrow and hopefully will get a couple more pics up..

But, Keep the Good Support coming
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Old 07-28-2009, 09:53 PM
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Default RE: Global Skyraider Repair

TEBerg,
Thanks for the build posting for your AD-1. I've got one of these flying now, and have another kit in the box. The one flying was bought RTF from another guy... it flies and lands very heavy. The guy who built it like epoxy, apparently, and added a lot of extra wood.

My plan this coming winter 2009 is to build the second one, adding bombs and retracts like yours. I haven't decided on flaps though. I like the VFA-25 paint scheme, but I'm also sort of partial to the camo paint too. Panel lines for sure.
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Old 07-29-2009, 12:25 AM
  #18
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Default RE: Global Skyraider Repair

Hey Doug,

If I had the chance to set the Skyraider up with retracts again, I would use the Lado electric, titanium struts (some guys reference these) and just use Robart strut covers for looks. I think this would keep the setup a bit lighter and would keep the need for flaps to a minimum.

However, with my plane at 11.5 pounds, flaps are a huge help.

When you get going, post photos over on the Skyraider building thread or start another one up for us to watch...
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Old 08-02-2009, 12:30 AM
  #19
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Default RE: Global Skyraider Repair

After I got the back spliced back to the front, I needed to fill in the gap where the fuselage side shattered (first photo). I think this was too much to just build up filler, so I glued in a couple of the pieces that splintered off the side. The second and third photos show gluing a parts in place and the “rough” look after they are glued.

The fourth photo is where I glued some wood in to replace the sides of the fuselage formers. With all the layers I have not, it may not be necessary. However, I wanted to help transfer stress from top to bottom.
The fifth photo is an inspection of the aileron servo mounts. I used double-sided foam to stick the servos on the plates before I screwed them down and it did a great job. Just to make sure, I ran a little bead of medium-thickness ca at the base of the hardwood rails.
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Old 08-02-2009, 12:33 AM
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Default RE: Global Skyraider Repair

I worked on the cowl with help from Randy and guys at the Woodland event. Randy brought me the fiberglass matt and also suggested to start the repair with thin CA – which worked great. The first photo is the breaks in the cowl that have been lined up and then soaked with CA. Man, it glued everything in very solid. The next photo is the additional layer of fiberglass and finishing resin inside of the damaged areas. The cowl feels nice and tough again.

The third photo is the Light Balsa filler spread on the side of the fuselage. I stirred a little water into the filler to make a nice smooth mix.

The fourth photo is a shot of the side with the wing bolted back on the plane. Everything feels nice and solid again. I’ll go back with silicone again after the covering is re-finished.

The last two photos are the sides filled and sanded with fine sandpaper, almost ready to be re-covered. I want to go get some more Balsa Rite to treat the wood before I put the covering down.
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Old 08-03-2009, 05:56 PM
  #21
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Default RE: Global Skyraider Repair

It was very nice to see my Magnum 91 FS back from Global Services when I got home from vacation.

I must say that getting the engine serviced was a high point after the crash… Since I was not sure how to tear down and repair a 4-stroke I decided to send the engine in to have it checked out. After Global received the engine they let me know repairs were just the cost of parts – no additional service charges!!!

The engine did not need a new crankshaft, but is back with the new valve cover and the tech also replaced a pushrod set and the front bearing. Along with some other parts and gaskets the repairs were only $38. The engine was also test run with a 14X6 APC prop and 15% nitro fuel and everything checked out good…

So, for less than 40 dollars and shipping charges my engine is ready to go back on the Skyraider. I am very happy with paying that cost instead of trying to get the engine back in good condition myself…
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Old 08-06-2009, 05:08 PM
  #22
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Default RE: Global Skyraider Repair

Here is a little more information on the Magnum repair.

I double-checked the list of parts replaced and it included Part No. 280927 – Ring.

Well, that is a new Piston Ring. So, I called to double check and I’m going to need another break-in on the engine. Dang… Well, I told myself to go ahead and not rush through all this. Time to go buy another gallon of 10% with castor oil for the break-in runs. After that is done, I will go back to 15% Cool Power and tune the engine on the plane.

OK, I cleaned the whole plane off with denatured alcohol a day ago. It’s time to go get come covering repairs back on the bird..
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Old 08-10-2009, 03:36 PM
  #23
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Default RE: Global Skyraider Repair

I started filling the cowl damage and finished the Monokote covering on the repaired areas. There were a couple extra wrinkles on the wing tips and tail feathers because I did not have a large area to heat with the hot air gun, but not too bad in all.

I did not find any Balsa Rite to coat the repaired areas. However, the residual left on the frame from the first treatment seemed to help the Monokote adhesion.

The first photo is my mix of fillers for the cowl. I used 30-minute epoxy with milled fiberglass to help plug the screw hole that got torn up. I hope the milled fiberglass will add the needed strength to re-drill the screw hole. I had also drilled out the hold-down block on the firewall and glued in a piece of dowel for the screw.

I mixed Microballoons into the epoxy to fill the cracked and chipped area.

The second photo is a picture from under the cowl. Even though the microballoons thicken the epoxy, the mix was tending to run off the repair area. So, I gave it around 30 minutes and the stuff left on the aluminum foil was getting thicker. Then I put the cowl right-side up and warmed the areas up with a hair drier. This let some of the filler flow back “down” into the repair.

The third photo is a look at the repair area and Monokote patches. With luck, this will all blend together when I spray the flat clear… However, the fuselage shape looks pretty good.
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Old 08-12-2009, 04:42 PM
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Default RE: Global Skyraider Repair

I have information back from Horizon Hobby about what caused the crash.

Now, I will fully accept the responsibility for the crash – It is my radio equipment.

Here are the notes from Horizon Hobby Service relating to the problems.

-8103: replaced broken battery connector.
-R720: Replaced antenna and removed solder short at input cap.
-Replaced transmitter battery lead to match new style battery connector.
-The transmitter battery lead was the cause of intermittent power loss and blown fuse.

So, the transmitter does appear to be a possible “direct” cause to the loss of signal. The short at the RX input capacitor may be another item which could also lead to a loss of control, or helped.

Now, I do try to be diligent about checking and testing, but this type of issue may slip by… A transmitter fuse did blow, but after replacing the fuse and checking the possible causes (that is when I found the broken battery connector), I could not replicate the issue. This included shaking turning the switch on and off, and looking up possible causes on-line. The only thing I found was that sometimes the “older” fuses (mine was original from a 2000 purchase) will pop… I had also just sent the TX in for a checkup on the Lithium Backup Battery last year and it all came back OK.

Side note: I sent in my R720 FM receiver for service and the receiver I got back is in my R720 case. HOWEVER, I cannot “ScanSelect” my transmitter in PPM Modulation. I have to set the transmitter to S-PCM Modulation in order to lock on to the frequency. I also checked and the fail-safe set up with the “new” receiver. I checked and the “test” airplane memory used was set up with S-PCM. My stored model in the PPM mode did not work. But when I switched the modulation to S-PCM it worked fine. I called Horizon and spoke with the tech that repaired my system and he said he did not remember mine specifically, but if they mark items repaired, they are usually just repaired and not replaced. He did ask if using a S-PCM receiver was a problem and I said NO… That was kind of it; we don’t know “why” there is an S-PCM board in the receiver.

So, it looks like I now have the JR R790 “guts” in my R720 receiver case… I’m OK with that. It may be one more step toward not having a problem with interference.

OK, back to finishing the Skyraider. I’m going to take this as closure to an issue and get the plane back up in the air.
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Old 08-12-2009, 06:10 PM
  #25
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Default RE: Global Skyraider Repair

The way most batteries are crammed into transmitters, and the penchant for modelers to unplug those connectors to cycle and also change the size of the battery which allows the battery to flop around without foam packing, it's surprising more connectors don't have issues. I'm sorry yours did.

The solder joint short is interesting. Solder joints at capacitors fail more often than any in my experience. Unless it was a cold solder joint or corrosion I'd say it was heat - but that wouldn't explain a short. So the bottom line is that unless it was a cold solder joint I'd have to say if your radio was subjected to the same conditions that may have contributed to corrosion, for the same amount of time, it will short again at that location. But maybe they changed out the board where this occurred? If not I'd open the case every year or so and if you know where that problem happened, just carefully clean that area, and if you have a voltmeter check continuity in that area for a short.

But yes, you're good to go. All the best in your repairs and future flights.
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