My first crash
08-12-2009, 06:36 PM
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My first crash
My first crash with my first airplane, a trainer. When I noticed uncommanded roll inputs I immediately set up for a landing. Approach was fine until I got it down to about 2 feet off the ground. Another roll to the right which dug in the wing tip and ripped the wing from the fuselage. The impact pulled the aft hold down plate out, which I have already glued back in. Cracked the side of the fuselage, splitting it from a doubler...already fixed that too. The former which holds the forward wing lug is cracked but I believe it can be replaced. The problem I can't figure out is the lug on the wing is broken off. There's about a half inch missing. I can't figure out what to do about it. I should say here I have no previous modeling experience. Any suggestions?
P.S> Ireplaced the receiver too.
P.S> Ireplaced the receiver too.
08-12-2009, 07:26 PM
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RE: My first crash
thats not a crash ... a crash is when you aint got anything bigger than 4inches long and you need a screw driver to dig your motor out,ve the sods and on looking carefully all thats left in one peice is the vertical part of tail
08-12-2009, 09:44 PM
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RE: My first crash
ORIGINAL: grimmy55
thats not a crash ... a crash is when you aint got anything bigger than 4inches long and you need a screw driver to dig your motor out,ve the sods and on looking carefully all thats left in one peice is the vertical part of tail
thats not a crash ... a crash is when you aint got anything bigger than 4inches long and you need a screw driver to dig your motor out,ve the sods and on looking carefully all thats left in one peice is the vertical part of tail
Well, I didn't get lucky enough to have one of those, but I sure need help fixing what I did get.
08-12-2009, 10:08 PM
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RE: My first crash
As that tongue and the wing bolts hold the entire load of the fuse the repair needs to be secure.
What sort of tools do you have?
You could Dremel out the ply so you had a slot going into the wing a reasonable amount and epoxy in a replacement tongue
or
Remove the tongue altogether, and as you have to replace the front former in the fuse, change the mount to using a couple of dowel pins instead.
There are probably other methods, but this is the fun of construction (or repair), inventive ways of coonstruction.
It's only right as we have such inventive ways of destruction
What sort of tools do you have?
You could Dremel out the ply so you had a slot going into the wing a reasonable amount and epoxy in a replacement tongue
or
Remove the tongue altogether, and as you have to replace the front former in the fuse, change the mount to using a couple of dowel pins instead.
There are probably other methods, but this is the fun of construction (or repair), inventive ways of coonstruction.
It's only right as we have such inventive ways of destruction
08-12-2009, 10:18 PM
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RE: My first crash
I kind of wished this one had dowel pins when I was putting it together. I think I would have to beef up the fuselage sides a lot to change it over. The wing is still solid, so cutting into it and building a new lug could be done. I have access to any tools I need. A friend who helped me put this model together is a master cabinetmaker. He has a great shop. I'm just disappointed right now, landings had been the easiest part of RC flying for me. I couldn't believe it when it rolled just as I was about to flare. That sound is devastating. lol. Thanks for the advice.
Do you think I should just cut the wing in half and start over?
Do you think I should just cut the wing in half and start over?
08-13-2009, 12:00 AM
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RE: My first crash
No, just making a suitable sized slot to securely anchor another tongue is really a minor job if you have the right tools.
I don't think you need to perform major surgery.
And your cabinet maker friend might even show you easier ways to slot the root ribs.
Good luck and happy landings in the future.
Mike
I don't think you need to perform major surgery.
And your cabinet maker friend might even show you easier ways to slot the root ribs.
Good luck and happy landings in the future.
Mike
08-13-2009, 09:56 AM
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RE: My first crash
Hi faulknej
The un-commanded roll just as you flared for a landing sounds like a classic wing stall. Are you just learning to fly and do you have some help with that? It is best not to try it alone.
The un-commanded roll just as you flared for a landing sounds like a classic wing stall. Are you just learning to fly and do you have some help with that? It is best not to try it alone.
08-13-2009, 04:27 PM
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RE: My first crash
[sm=75_75.gif][sm=75_75.gif][sm=75_75.gif][sm=drowning.gif] faulknej,
Villa I think Hit Nail on Head. I too Think Plane Stalled [sm=idea.gif] I've only been Flying RC Planes for 3 Years and Crashes Happen to everyone. I Tip Stalled My 73" YAK-54 Doing Dead Stick Landing with a 40CC Gas Engine in it and broke it in half.[X(][X(][X(] I attached Photo and Red White, Black YAK 54 I'm Holding in Driveway is one I've Repaired Many Times. I'm Actually Flying Second ARF now that's been repared twice. Kept 1st one for spare parts. Remember Crashes are Just Part of Learning.[sm=49_49.gif][sm=49_49.gif][sm=49_49.gif] And Later that Same Day I Forgot to Throw My Switch from 3D Rates to LOW or LANDING RATES to Land and Tip Stalled Twist 150. [:@][:@][:@]Broke Both Plane Fuselages in Half. [&o][&o][&o] We Repaired Both to Fly Another Day.[&:][&:][&:] I Learned The More Bank Angle Your Flying that You need Fly at More Speed Not To have a Tip Stall!!! [>:][>:][>:] Always Check My Triple Rate Switch on JR 9303 Radio Before making Landing Approaches. [sm=idea.gif][sm=idea.gif][sm=idea.gif] You would be amazed what All can be Repaired and Made Flyable again. [X(][X(][X(] Don's Hobby Has Some Great Books Explain Tip Stalls, Regular Stalls Ect Really Well and If Keep Flying and Rereading You will Master allot.[sm=spinnyeyes.gif][sm=spinnyeyes.gif][sm=spinnyeyes.gif] Damaging Planes and Breaking some Props is Just Part of Learning Curve. I've Attached Few Photos to give Idea What I transistioned through to Now Fly Giant Scale 30% to 33% size planes I've attached Photos of. Even Expert Pilots loose Expensive Planes once in awhile. Like $3500 to $8500 type Airplanes. [sm=angry_smile.gif][sm=angry_smile.gif][sm=angry_smile.gif] NO ONE FULLY IMMUNE !!! Buy Another ARF and Put Good Parts in it. Always Try to Learn from Your Mistakes. Maybe Buy few Used planes that are well built from someone in Your Club moving Up Bigger Birds. This can Save You Big Bucks. Tower Hobbies has $60 Off $300 Orders right now and If Join Super Savers Club NO SHIPPING Costs.
Look at that New ARF Called "ESCAPADE" for Next Plane. Troybuilt Models in Florida Sell Power HD Servos and That's All I use Now on all My Planes.[sm=punching.gif][sm=punching.gif][sm=punching.gif] There 50% to 80% CHEAPER and Super Quality and Powerful. [X(][X(][X(]You can always E-mail Me Direct since I'm Retired I spend allot Time looking for Bargains and Great Buys on Internet or going out Flying with My Buddies. [email protected] So Hang in There!!!! This is Great Life Long Pastime and Hobby. richgrow
Villa I think Hit Nail on Head. I too Think Plane Stalled [sm=idea.gif] I've only been Flying RC Planes for 3 Years and Crashes Happen to everyone. I Tip Stalled My 73" YAK-54 Doing Dead Stick Landing with a 40CC Gas Engine in it and broke it in half.[X(][X(][X(] I attached Photo and Red White, Black YAK 54 I'm Holding in Driveway is one I've Repaired Many Times. I'm Actually Flying Second ARF now that's been repared twice. Kept 1st one for spare parts. Remember Crashes are Just Part of Learning.[sm=49_49.gif][sm=49_49.gif][sm=49_49.gif] And Later that Same Day I Forgot to Throw My Switch from 3D Rates to LOW or LANDING RATES to Land and Tip Stalled Twist 150. [:@][:@][:@]Broke Both Plane Fuselages in Half. [&o][&o][&o] We Repaired Both to Fly Another Day.[&:][&:][&:] I Learned The More Bank Angle Your Flying that You need Fly at More Speed Not To have a Tip Stall!!! [>:][>:][>:] Always Check My Triple Rate Switch on JR 9303 Radio Before making Landing Approaches. [sm=idea.gif][sm=idea.gif][sm=idea.gif] You would be amazed what All can be Repaired and Made Flyable again. [X(][X(][X(] Don's Hobby Has Some Great Books Explain Tip Stalls, Regular Stalls Ect Really Well and If Keep Flying and Rereading You will Master allot.[sm=spinnyeyes.gif][sm=spinnyeyes.gif][sm=spinnyeyes.gif] Damaging Planes and Breaking some Props is Just Part of Learning Curve. I've Attached Few Photos to give Idea What I transistioned through to Now Fly Giant Scale 30% to 33% size planes I've attached Photos of. Even Expert Pilots loose Expensive Planes once in awhile. Like $3500 to $8500 type Airplanes. [sm=angry_smile.gif][sm=angry_smile.gif][sm=angry_smile.gif] NO ONE FULLY IMMUNE !!! Buy Another ARF and Put Good Parts in it. Always Try to Learn from Your Mistakes. Maybe Buy few Used planes that are well built from someone in Your Club moving Up Bigger Birds. This can Save You Big Bucks.
Tower Hobbies has $60 Off $300 Orders right now and If Join Super Savers Club NO SHIPPING Costs. Look at that New ARF Called "ESCAPADE" for Next Plane. Troybuilt Models in Florida Sell Power HD Servos and That's All I use Now on all My Planes.[sm=punching.gif][sm=punching.gif][sm=punching.gif] There 50% to 80% CHEAPER and Super Quality and Powerful. [X(][X(][X(]You can always E-mail Me Direct since I'm Retired I spend allot Time looking for Bargains and Great Buys on Internet or going out Flying with My Buddies. [email protected] So Hang in There!!!! This is Great Life Long Pastime and Hobby. richgrow
08-13-2009, 04:59 PM
#9
RE: My first crash
ORIGINAL: faulknej
When I noticed uncommanded roll inputs I immediately set up for a landing. Approach was fine until I got it down to about 2 feet off the ground. Another roll to the right which dug in the wing tip and ripped the wing from the fuselage.
When I noticed uncommanded roll inputs I immediately set up for a landing. Approach was fine until I got it down to about 2 feet off the ground. Another roll to the right which dug in the wing tip and ripped the wing from the fuselage.
Now, don't get me wrong, I learned about the tip-stall the hard way years ago
.. Low, slow and using ailerons instead of mostly rudder on final..Any way - the original post said that the uncommanded roll inputs were the reason he was setting up to land and then it happened again.. We also don't know how long he was flying or the battery status, ect..
After learning the cause of my last crash - this may be a good time to have the radio and receiver checked...
At a minimum, conduct a full check of the equipment; all the servos for binding, battery capacity, range check on the ground, range check with the engine running (on the ground), and a nice "rattle test" with the transmitter - with the system all turned on, give the TX a good shaking and make sure you don't see responses on the plane...
Lastly - Regarding the repair, you may be able to just open the basls sheeting and cut off the rest of the broken center ribs (wing lug) to make it flat (horizontal with the bottom). Then glue a new rectangular "lug" in place of the old one right on top of the cut you just made. Then laminate both sides with plywood and epoxy that reach from the top of the wing to the base of the new lug. It will be thick in the area you laminate/double, but the piece sticking forward will be the same as the original... You can repair the broken former the same way - make a doubler that fits behind the broken one..
08-13-2009, 11:02 PM
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RE: My first crash
I'm with Tom. I highly doubt that a trainer is doing stall snaps on landing. Unless the CG is really screwed up, you have to be high alpha and with serious rudder input to get any decent trainer to snap. Stalled trainers should just be mushy and begin to nose over.
Back to the problem. The center spar appears to be the mounting point for the forward part of the wing. This is common among imported ARFs. Before you start peeling back sheeting, look to see if you have enough room in the bulkhead to retrofit dowel rods. If so then you have to need to see if you have enough meat in the wing to mount dowels. If you do, the dowels have to go in deep .
One other option: You can take plywood and create a small slit in the leading edge on either side of the existing "lug". Then you just make your mounting lug a little wider, and then cut the slot in the bulkhead a little larger to match. If you epoxy the new flat sides to the existing spars you should be OK. Needless to say I wouldn't pull any high G moves until you are comfortable.
And then there is old school. Re-enforce the wing saddle and run dowels through the fuse on front and back of the wings and rubber band the wing on.. ewwww.
Check out that radio, and then go get you a great planes big stik. That's the best second plane ever.
Bob
Back to the problem. The center spar appears to be the mounting point for the forward part of the wing. This is common among imported ARFs. Before you start peeling back sheeting, look to see if you have enough room in the bulkhead to retrofit dowel rods. If so then you have to need to see if you have enough meat in the wing to mount dowels. If you do, the dowels have to go in deep .
One other option: You can take plywood and create a small slit in the leading edge on either side of the existing "lug". Then you just make your mounting lug a little wider, and then cut the slot in the bulkhead a little larger to match. If you epoxy the new flat sides to the existing spars you should be OK. Needless to say I wouldn't pull any high G moves until you are comfortable.
And then there is old school. Re-enforce the wing saddle and run dowels through the fuse on front and back of the wings and rubber band the wing on.. ewwww.
Check out that radio, and then go get you a great planes big stik. That's the best second plane ever.
Bob
08-14-2009, 12:16 AM
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RE: My first crash
ORIGINAL: TEBerg
Well, based on what was stated in the original note - I don't agree with the tip-stall theory..
Now, don't get me wrong, I learned about the tip-stall the hard way years ago.. Low, slow and using ailerons instead of mostly rudder on final..
Any way - the original post said that the uncommanded roll inputs were the reason he was setting up to land and then it happened again.. We also don't know how long he was flying or the battery status, ect..
After learning the cause of my last crash - this may be a good time to have the radio and receiver checked...
At a minimum, conduct a full check of the equipment; all the servos for binding, battery capacity, range check on the ground, range check with the engine running (on the ground), and a nice "rattle test" with the transmitter - with the system all turned on, give the TX a good shaking and make sure you don't see responses on the plane...
Lastly - Regarding the repair, you may be able to just open the basls sheeting and cut off the rest of the broken center ribs (wing lug) to make it flat (horizontal with the bottom). Then glue a new rectangular "lug" in place of the old one right on top of the cut you just made. Then laminate both sides with plywood and epoxy that reach from the top of the wing to the base of the new lug. It will be thick in the area you laminate/double, but the piece sticking forward will be the same as the original... You can repair the broken former the same way - make a doubler that fits behind the broken one..
ORIGINAL: faulknej
When I noticed uncommanded roll inputs I immediately set up for a landing. Approach was fine until I got it down to about 2 feet off the ground. Another roll to the right which dug in the wing tip and ripped the wing from the fuselage.
When I noticed uncommanded roll inputs I immediately set up for a landing. Approach was fine until I got it down to about 2 feet off the ground. Another roll to the right which dug in the wing tip and ripped the wing from the fuselage.
Now, don't get me wrong, I learned about the tip-stall the hard way years ago
.. Low, slow and using ailerons instead of mostly rudder on final..Any way - the original post said that the uncommanded roll inputs were the reason he was setting up to land and then it happened again.. We also don't know how long he was flying or the battery status, ect..
After learning the cause of my last crash - this may be a good time to have the radio and receiver checked...
At a minimum, conduct a full check of the equipment; all the servos for binding, battery capacity, range check on the ground, range check with the engine running (on the ground), and a nice "rattle test" with the transmitter - with the system all turned on, give the TX a good shaking and make sure you don't see responses on the plane...
Lastly - Regarding the repair, you may be able to just open the basls sheeting and cut off the rest of the broken center ribs (wing lug) to make it flat (horizontal with the bottom). Then glue a new rectangular "lug" in place of the old one right on top of the cut you just made. Then laminate both sides with plywood and epoxy that reach from the top of the wing to the base of the new lug. It will be thick in the area you laminate/double, but the piece sticking forward will be the same as the original... You can repair the broken former the same way - make a doubler that fits behind the broken one..
Receiver is in the trash, radio is now a buddy box. Battery will be recycled. Repairs will be completed in the morning, with new battery, Rx, and Tx. This was the 4th flight of the day, each about five minutes long. Voltwatch showed good on the Rx battery, and the Tx screen showed 9.2 V. when it happened. Thinking back on it, I had a hard landing on a deadstick earlier, must have broken the Rx when it nosed into weeds adjacent to the field. Two flights later, it was all over. Thanks for all the replies.
