Clement7

I tried flying the SAVS indoors Saturday evening with both 6MP and Extreme Cam attached.. It took a full throttle for it to lift-off when usually without the 6MP load, half a throttle will send your SAVS flying.. Too much weight and load for the rotors to handle.. But surprisingly, it was still controllable and stable (Ti is disabled since I'm indoors). . I was able to maintain it on a hover and was able to touch the ceiling with it continuously for 5 minutes straight. Now if I can do that outside, I'll be able to monitor what the the digital cam's line of sight is to help me frame the shots. I plan to limit my flights the the 6MP camera attached to 5 to 6 minutes at a time reserving the remaining charge for landing..

The best setup so far is the one without the Extreme Cam and transmitter board attached..

I will try to fly the SAVS+6MP with Ti enabled Sunday morning. Will keep you all posted

Sky High

Were your rotors coning up alot because of the weight? If not, I think there would be more of a load on the motors instead of the rotors. Can you shoot a video of that thing fully loaded and flying inside or out before before you take one of the cameras off? I would really like to see that! Thanks.

Clement7

Hey Sky! Oops! I stand corrected! Too much weight for the MOTORS to handle, not ROTORS.. I got the two words mixed up.. I guess I'm half asleep already when I did my last entry.. Thanks! hehehe!

For taking hi-res shots, I still prefer flying with the 6MP+SAVS setup without the Extreme Cam (then just guestimate for now the height needed to attain a good shot). This allows me to have that extra lift to land safely and counter the pull of gravity.. In my previous 6MP tests without the Extreme Cam, when I decided that it's time to land and throttled down too much, the rate of descent was similar to the DFI's Super Drop Video due to the 6MP camera's weight.. good thing I was able to fully throttle up just in time, control the rate of decent and had those foams protecting the 6MP camera! --The SAVS just bounced a bit upon landing. So it's really advisable to fly max of 6mins and after attaining the desired height and shooting enough shots, throttle down slowly, a few clicks at a time. It's not a good idea to keep on flying till you run-out of batteries (plus the wear and tear on the motors should you fly continuously more than 5 minutes). If you get low-batt while hovering up high ---now that ladies and gentlement will be the ultimate SUPER DROP!

Sunday morning... it's raining out here! The 6MP test with the Ti enabled will have to wait till the weather clears up.

SIDEBAR: For those of you going through this thread for the very first time and skipped some of the results posted here, I have successfully flown the SAVS (without Ti ) already at a guestimate height of 50 feet with the 6MP setup. The Ti is an added bonus to keep the flyer levelled and thus allowing the camera to take more perfectly framed shots. Until recently, I haven't been flying with Ti enabled for over a month after a fatal crash that ruined my CCD Extreme Cam. I was too excited to learn how to fly with the Extreme Cam attached and didn't follow DFI's advice to remove the SAVS camera first. So for new SAVS owners, believe me (!), remove the Extreme Camera first and familiarize yourself very well with the flying characteristics of the SAVS with and without Ti enabled before going to the next level.. It's just now that Sky High and Scottsic re-introduced me to flying with Ti enabled again after seeing their great videos.

Sky High

All of the framing guessing will be gone if you get that video interface for your still camera.

Clement7

Hehehehe... I will make do with what I have first.. I'll check and see if the video downlink I use for the helium balloon is light enough (I'll remove the casing). Are you familiar with the underside of the circuit board? which pins can I derive power off the DF board? The taiwan-made generic video downlink I have needs 12 volts, maybe I can get some of the juice off the SAVS to power this up instead adding another battery?-- just like the connection of Blackdragan's altimeter.

Or how about splicing the other end of the RCA from the video out connector of the digital camera? And find the proper wires to connect to the SAVS video transmitter? Since I have an extra SAVS video cable/harness, can anyone help me identify to which of the wires I can connect to? Red? White or black?

Clement7

After conducting further tests and experimented on how to mount the camera so it wont be upside down, I found out that the original setup is still the best that does not put much stress on the motors and provides the best protection for the digital camera. I just added something inbetween the digital camera and the baseplate to make it tilt a bit so I can get a good oblique angle on levelled flight.

At this point, I am still able to fly the SAVS with the digital camera attached at 1/2 throttle. This simply means I still have enough power to climb and control descent.

What I am working on right now is the video downlink. I am awaiting advice from DFI re connecting the digital camera's video cable to the SAVS transmitter My other option is tapping power off the circuit board of the SAVS to supply juice to the other video downlink that I use with my helium AP setup. Will keep you all posted.

yvesOttawa

Hi Clement, any word on how Ti behaves with the added weight of the camera? It was way too wobbly on mine and basically oscillates until it wants to crash. Of course I intervene and fly it back to reality

Let me know how yours does. I wish I could go up to 475' like BlackDragan but I think I would be in trouble since I wouldn't see what the hell I'm doing all the way up there. The highest I've been can only be estimated between 250-300 feet and I may get an altimeter to confirm.

Meanwhile, here is a shot I took at the lake. All using my DF and I even got brave enough to venture out over the water[X(]

http://bradatech.biz/lake_DF.JPG

Clement7

Hey Yves! What a nice shot! That is really scary to do without Ti! Tilting your head up to lock on your DF at that altitude and trying to keep it to hover steadily... wow! I haven't dared going up that high yet (with Ti disabled)!

It's been raining for the past 5 days here.. [] so I haven't gone out with the SAVS+6MP setup to test it with Ti enabled..

I think I'll go out flying later this afternoon to do the test.. weather seems to be clearing up already. I'll keep you all posted.

Thank you for sharing your picture of the lake! Keep 'em comin!

Best Regards!

scottslc

What a shot! Thats great. Hats off to you Yvesottawa!

Clement7

It was so windy this afternoon out here!.. I used to love the wind. But now, with the SAVS, I'm starting to hate the wind so much. But nevertheless I still tried flying with Ti enabled. And it worked Yves! No wobbles whatsoever with the Ti ON even with the added weight of the 6MP digital camera. I just had problems with the wind.. I almost lost my SAVS! Good thing I'm so used to flying it without Ti enabled, so I was able to fight back the effects of the wind and recover my flyer tail in. Out of 45 shots, only one shot is worth keeping..

I'll try flying again tomorrow.

yvesOttawa

Thanks for the compliments Scott and Clement. Clement, that's really great news about flying with Ti and the added weight. I wonder if my board is having some glitches when Ti is on?? I will try again but this time in an open field away from houses which was where I tried it last.

I need Ti to work if I want to go past the 300 foot ceiling but I don't like to rely on technology to fly my setup for me

I'll keep you guys up to date...

Clement7

Hi Yves! It could be a battery problem.. One of my batteries I marked ERRATIC since whenever I fly with Ti enabled, it flies erratically. Try using a different battery and mark the ones with bad behavior and dont use them with Ti ON. Or, what could have happened the last time you tried with Ti on is that your circuit board was dislodged from the vertical risers, thus causing the wobbles.. or maybe you were flying from a shaded area then out to a direct sunlight? but my main bet right now is a bad battery. According to Gary of DFI, some of the batteries they released early this year had some problems supplying steady voltage. What's weird is when I fly with the erratic battery and Ti OFF, no wobbling.

TheHindmost

Wow, that is a great shot! Late to the party, but I had to compliment that picture...

Well, unless you can flap your arms really fast, you'll always be relying on technology... :-)

Will

yvesOttawa

I've got 5 batteries and tried a few back then with same results. I will try again in open space.

Clement7

A while back, Sky suggested that I use the spare carbon fiber tubes/arms as extensions to the vertical risers instead of the foam protection.. well guess what!? It also works! In fact, it's a lot better! I tried it Sunday evening.

In my quest to minimize excess weight, instead of the carbon fiber tubes/arms, I made use of wooden chopsticks (disposable ones that come with Chinese take-outs) which are really really light. I just used masking tape to attach them to the vertical risers.. The SAVS now looks like it came from the sci-fi movie WAR OF THE WORLDS!

Yes, I agree that the original FOAM setup subjects the DF/SAVS to more stress as it is not aerodynamic.. you'll also have a hard time hopping for proper trimming and levelling.. plus, the SAVS tends to land unevenly causing the blades to strike the ground at times. Using the stilts will minimize the effects of wind on the flyer. But it's a matter of choice between protecting the digital camera or getting more control.

My next step is to have at least some protection to the digital camera when using the stilts setup. Maybe using some thinner slices of foam and just using rubber bands to wrap it around the digital camera..

Will post some pictures of the STILTS setup soon..

My next concern is the video downlink.. but again it's a matter of choice.. The added weight is too much for the motors to handle. For now I think I'll be happy flying several times to get the right shot than risking of losing control due to the added weight of the video downlink.

Clement7

I tried flying indoors with some thin slices of foam to serve as protection to the digital camera.. after conducting several take-offs, somehow the SAVS flies a lot better without any form of foam protection to the digital camera, --even though the foam is thinly sliced and weighs very very light already. Foam causes some drag? [X(]

detroitdr

Not sure if you have checked this, but the motors on the DF will not successful in doing what you want to do. Sure they will life your load and you can be stable during flight (which is mostly becasue of balance not motors or software) BUT and here is it....

sorry to throw this out there but your motors will BURN OUT VERY FAST. If you are lifting a S6 4.6 ounces with battery and SD card and bolt you are using (go ahead and weight it at the post office... it'll be 4.6) + your GentLED Auto weight....means VERY VERY HOT MOTORS AND VERY HOT BATTERY.

Test it.... do a 4 min flilght with your load.... then try to hold the motors for longer then 5 secs... I bet your hand will be burnt..... Any motor will do a great job lifting its max but will fry extermely soon.

Sorry to bring bad news....

yvesOttawa

Detroit, that is true but big deal....the motors are $12 apiece. Even without the excessive load, rctoys recommends replacing the motors and bearings at around 20 hours of flight. Even with this kind of load (S6), you replace them at 10 hours, it's a measily $50. These are cheapo "made in china" crap motors.

Not like you are running a brushless setup using a motor and ESC that could bring you around $150 to replace.

IMO, I don't see it as an issue.

yvesOttawa

Just wanted to post this one to see my 200 posts! unlike SkyHigh (nearly 1000), I have long ways to go yet

Clement7

Hi detroitdr!

Yes, you have a point there, but so far after doing test flights every night lasting for about 5 minutes for almost a month now, my motors are still OK. Though I'm still trying to find other ways to minimize the added weight /payload of the SAVS.

What I do, I guess like what Yves does with his SAVS+6MP setup, is limit each flight to not more than 5 minutes and take breaks inbetween flights to cool down the motors. Fly up high quick, hold for a minute to take enough shots then land the flyer immediately to check.

Yves, am I right? How's your motors so far? Have you replaced your motors already? How long have you been flying with you 6MP setup?

IMO, this is still the cheapest AP platform alternative that you can QUICKLY SETUP AND EASILY fly out of the trunk of your car, the SAFEST especially in residential areas, and the most CONVENIENT rig to get through airports and travel with as in contrast with Nitro Helis or the more expensive mid-sized electrics. Since I charge an average of $300 too $500 per shoot per layout, and my other AP platform, a helium balloon, costs me $100 per helium tank refill per project, I don't mind replacing the motors which only costs $13 each and has lasted me so many flight times already. I have factored in the depreciation of the SAVS and MOTORS whenever I charge my clients for the AP work.

Setting-up the SAVS as your ONLY AP platform may not be a good idea for some. But it's still my first choice. If I can get away doing the job and getting shots with it, then well and good! The Ti make me feel safe whenever I'm up high. For windy conditions that SAVS can't handle, I have alternative AP platforms like the 6' helium balloon to carry my Canon 300D (Rebel).

To justify it even further, when I bid for bigger projects, contracts more than $3,000 (web site and multimedia work, integrated marketing communications planning) and include AP as a bonus, like what YVES said, $52 to replace the motors is nothing. But again, I've been flying almost every day and so far, my motors are still OK.

If you're just going to do this 6MP experiment for fun and don't plan to make money with it, be warned on the accelerated wear the tear on the motors due to the added payload. Anything in excess is bad for your flyer's health.

detroitdr

YvesOttawa,

Yes you are correct with that point.. the cost is cheap.... however that wasn't my actual point (and my bad for not making it clearer)

You are going to have an INFLIGHT motor failure... and the S6 is a little more then $15 bucks. Your batteries will also be worn down much quicker... infact I'm going to load up my DF tonight with 4.8 oz.. (incl the gentled auto) and read the motor temps and battery

Basically what I'm trying to say is you will not be in control of when a motor fails, I don't even believe you will get close to 5 hours on your motors... I'd be willing to bet 1 hour tops IF you are going to be flying them for 4 min with that load on.

Hey don't shoot the messanger.... I'm just bringing up some ideas on what you may be doing to your units.... DF can't sustain that load period.

Sky High

I agree with the motors being worn out faster with a heavier load put on them. Knowing how volatile lipos can be and how hot they can get during normal flight, couldn't this added load on the motors potentially cause lipos to ignite while in use?

Clement7

Hmmm, I guess I better start logging my flight minutes and take another look at the foam protection to wrap my S6 with, just in case...

I'll check with DFI for their official statement re clues and telltale signs of a worn-out motor and see if they have experienced a motor failure inflight. I'll post their official reply here.. might take two to three days to get a reply from them..

detroitdr, thanks for posting your views re this matter. This is exactly what the forum is for, exchanging of ideas and sharing of experiences. It's really all up to the other members how they'll interpret, make use of the infos posted here /in other threads, and apply it to their flying machines.

Clement7

But wait a minute! I think someone posted this already on how to tell if the motors are worn out... can someone post the link to the telltale signs of a worn out motor again please? I think that's the best way to avoid inflight motor failure and avert a disaster... we should include this in our pre-flight checklist.

detroitdr

Clement,

I'm glad you see I'm just pointing out some potential issues... other forums in here after that kind of a post I get blasted.... :>

I have a temp gun and will load up my DF tonight and see.... But I'm guessing the motors are going to be soo hot after a flight that the wire that supplies them voltage will prob start to melt anywhere they touch the motors..... that being said the cap I bet will go very quickly too..... If DF says these only take 4.6 oz and you are already there... then I'd bet they really can only hold up 2 oz for a continus operation.... Max for a short 30 sec flight may by 4.6oz........

But I could be wayyyyy wrong... I'll try tonight.

I have a T-Rex 450SE that I use with a camera...only problem is taking it high as it's hard to keep level and I'm afraid of it going good-bye.... Anyone know of a RC helicopter (nitro/electric) that will self level like the DF ????

I'm still in the market for 20 units that will work like I need 'em.... thus the DF did not pass.... (which is why I'm selling my DF stuff)

FYI anyone interested in those glasses (only thing I have left now) Sell price is $480 us no tax and will mark GIFT.

DoC