parkzone battery upgrade
02-13-2011, 03:43 AM
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parkzone battery upgrade
Hey guys, I bought a p51 parkzone rtf..It has a 11.1 1300 lipo pack along with it's own charger..I want to charge it with my triton..The included charger has 4 wires..I can I go about making up a charge lead for this? Also to get some more flight time, what size battery should I go up to? Should I go up on the voltage and capacity? I really appreciate the help in advance....
02-13-2011, 03:20 PM
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02-15-2011, 12:45 PM
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RE: parkzone battery upgrade
Should I go up on the voltage and capacity
Buy the blue male connector at your LHS or from HobbyZone(E-flite EFLAEC303) and make up a patch cable between your banana plug input connectors and blue male connector. Assuming you have the Triton EQ just plug the white 4-pin balancing connector from your PZ battery into the Triton 4-pin lipo balancing connector.
Some experienced pilots with good lipos and a good Lipo charger just charge thru the large connector without any balancing during charging. Most reputable lipo manufactures match the cells so balancing during charging isn't always necessary IF you know what you're doing (resting lipo before recharging, charge at 80%, don't overcharge, using a reliable/good lipo charger, quality lipos, etc). BUT just to be safe it's always a good idea. Some use this ... http://www.commonsenserc.com/product...oducts_id=2514 during charging or after a flight to keep track of each cells bounce back condition and overall health of lipo.
Happy Trails
02-16-2011, 07:33 AM
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RE: parkzone battery upgrade
Andrew,
Didn't mean to confuse the issue, but the Triton EQ instruction manual talks about charging balanced and unbalanced lipos. Basically there is no such thing as a new manufactured unbalanced lipo pack(from reputable company). All reputable lipo manufacturers test each individual cell and mate packs with cells of near identical quality. If you happen to purchase a lower grade lipo with unequal cells or you slightly damage one of your good packs then it would make sense to always charge via the Triton 4-pin connector to your lipo's white 4-pin connector. Because most all lipo's have equal cell quality it is a little faster to charge thru your lipo's larger blue connector via Titon's unbalanced banana plug outlet. So in short you can always plug in your lipo's white 4-pin connector into the Triton's 4-pin connector.
The main reason most make up a patch cable and charge thru the unbalanced banana plug outlet is because the lipo charge time is slightly faster than charging via the smaller white 4-pin balanced connector. However, a new lipo in good condition with equal cells doesn't need to be balance charged every time. The thinking seems to be that you can charge quality lipos via the banana plug outlet, but then about every 5 or so charge/discharge cycles charge it via the smaller white 4-pin(3 cell) connector just in case the cells are slightly out of balance. With a new quality lipo the overall charge time should be almost identical(within a couple minutes) whether using the banana plug unbalanced outlet and the larger blue lipo connector or charging via the smaller white 4-pin balancing port connector.
By 80% charge I meant that I use a charge rate that is 80% of C so if your lipo is 1300mAH (1.3amps) then I use a charge rate that is 80% of 1.3amps or about 1 amp. HOWEVER, that's just me. Most everyone charges their lipo battery at 1C(in your case 1.3amps) and some eager beavers even charge at a higher rate. I let my lipos rest between 15-30 minutes until the bounce back voltage reaches approx. 10.8-11.0 volts before recharging. This rest period will depend upon how much your lipo has been discharged during flight as well as the condition of the cells. Realistically, most pilots have two or three battery packs and don't recharge until back home several hours later. With TLC a lipo should last a long time ~ a good lipo is not cheap so treat it well.
Didn't mean to confuse the issue, but the Triton EQ instruction manual talks about charging balanced and unbalanced lipos. Basically there is no such thing as a new manufactured unbalanced lipo pack(from reputable company). All reputable lipo manufacturers test each individual cell and mate packs with cells of near identical quality. If you happen to purchase a lower grade lipo with unequal cells or you slightly damage one of your good packs then it would make sense to always charge via the Triton 4-pin connector to your lipo's white 4-pin connector. Because most all lipo's have equal cell quality it is a little faster to charge thru your lipo's larger blue connector via Titon's unbalanced banana plug outlet. So in short you can always plug in your lipo's white 4-pin connector into the Triton's 4-pin connector.
The main reason most make up a patch cable and charge thru the unbalanced banana plug outlet is because the lipo charge time is slightly faster than charging via the smaller white 4-pin balanced connector. However, a new lipo in good condition with equal cells doesn't need to be balance charged every time. The thinking seems to be that you can charge quality lipos via the banana plug outlet, but then about every 5 or so charge/discharge cycles charge it via the smaller white 4-pin(3 cell) connector just in case the cells are slightly out of balance. With a new quality lipo the overall charge time should be almost identical(within a couple minutes) whether using the banana plug unbalanced outlet and the larger blue lipo connector or charging via the smaller white 4-pin balancing port connector.
By 80% charge I meant that I use a charge rate that is 80% of C so if your lipo is 1300mAH (1.3amps) then I use a charge rate that is 80% of 1.3amps or about 1 amp. HOWEVER, that's just me. Most everyone charges their lipo battery at 1C(in your case 1.3amps) and some eager beavers even charge at a higher rate. I let my lipos rest between 15-30 minutes until the bounce back voltage reaches approx. 10.8-11.0 volts before recharging. This rest period will depend upon how much your lipo has been discharged during flight as well as the condition of the cells. Realistically, most pilots have two or three battery packs and don't recharge until back home several hours later. With TLC a lipo should last a long time ~ a good lipo is not cheap so treat it well.
02-16-2011, 06:30 PM
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RE: parkzone battery upgrade
IThanks for the reply. U didnt confuse the issue at all...I was just lookin at my triton and it doesnt have a plug in other than the banana plug and a thermo sensor with 3 wires..Looks like I need to upgrade..
02-19-2011, 05:46 AM
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RE: parkzone battery upgrade
Andrew,
A 'good' Li-Po balance charger is important. One way/scenario (not necessarily the best, but one of preventative maintenance) to view the current state of Li-Po batteries is to compare the present with a past make believe perfect scenario.
WHAT IF SCENARIO: Let's assume that before Li-Po batteries had balancing connectors the quality control was so meticulous that each of the pack's cells were identical in every way. However, this level of quality control made Li-Po's of top-rate quality quite expensive. So in order to lower the cost of Li-Po's and the higher rejection of cells not meeting a benchmark of zero tolerance ... manufacturers started mating cells of slightly different temperament. And to compensate for this ever so slight difference they attached a balancing connector.
There are balancers and then there are balancers. Not all balancers are created equal. So for example the balancer that comes with say a Stryker F27C RTF is fine if you always purchase top quality Li-Po's and use a low voltage cutoff of 9.6v just to be safe. However, if you tend to buy Li-Po's on sale at reduced prices then the Li-Po balancer that comes with an RTF plane is lacking when it comes to properly balancing a cheap Li-Po pack having cells with slightly different temperments.
Hope this helps
A 'good' Li-Po balance charger is important. One way/scenario (not necessarily the best, but one of preventative maintenance) to view the current state of Li-Po batteries is to compare the present with a past make believe perfect scenario.
WHAT IF SCENARIO: Let's assume that before Li-Po batteries had balancing connectors the quality control was so meticulous that each of the pack's cells were identical in every way. However, this level of quality control made Li-Po's of top-rate quality quite expensive. So in order to lower the cost of Li-Po's and the higher rejection of cells not meeting a benchmark of zero tolerance ... manufacturers started mating cells of slightly different temperament. And to compensate for this ever so slight difference they attached a balancing connector.
There are balancers and then there are balancers. Not all balancers are created equal. So for example the balancer that comes with say a Stryker F27C RTF is fine if you always purchase top quality Li-Po's and use a low voltage cutoff of 9.6v just to be safe. However, if you tend to buy Li-Po's on sale at reduced prices then the Li-Po balancer that comes with an RTF plane is lacking when it comes to properly balancing a cheap Li-Po pack having cells with slightly different temperments.
Hope this helps
02-19-2011, 11:06 PM
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RE: parkzone battery upgrade
everything u said helps out tremendously...I know nothing about these electrics. Been flying gas and glow for 35 years. I was just walkin around the hobby store and picked the mustang up..I'm lookin at gettin a vista power charger from radicalrc that will charge the lipos along with the nimah-nicad. It does 4 packs at once. But there are so many charger out there it's hard what to decide on. 
02-21-2011, 01:53 PM
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RE: parkzone battery upgrade
If possible always buy from your LHS just in case there's a problem. What's most important is knowing how to treat your Li-Po's right AS OPPOSED to someone who buys an expensive Li-Po balance charger and then expects it to bring out the best in a cheap Li-Po or heal an expensive Li-Po that has been abused.
02-22-2011, 02:08 PM
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RE: parkzone battery upgrade
As a new electric LiPo flyer the following should be of some interest to you.
Possibly the most noted LiPo rc plane poster over several years is everydayflyer ... The following is his latest post on 2.20.11 at wattflyer. Also his other LiPo posts at wf ... http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/sear...archid=2644277 (have to be logged in)
Possibly the most noted LiPo rc plane poster over several years is everydayflyer ... The following is his latest post on 2.20.11 at wattflyer. Also his other LiPo posts at wf ... http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/sear...archid=2644277 (have to be logged in)
The following are my opinions and have worked for myself and many others.
Proper storage :
Approx. 3.85 volts per cell in a cool location. IMO with today's fast charge capable LiPolys and high rate capable chargers there is little sense in leaving LiPolys charged just in case the weather turns nice.
Discharge level:
I have used 80% depth of discharge as my standard for years and it works extremely well. There is mounting evidence that the latest high quality LiPolys can endure deeper discharges much better than prior ones but testing is still limited.
Handling :
LiPolys are fragile. I have been called crazy for suggesting the be handled like an unboiled egg or fine china. Every crease,bing,bump,etc. creates a pressure point which leads to accelerated salt crystals growth.
Cheap chargers :
My advise is not to use them. An accurate high quality charger / balancer will extend the life of your LiPolys and in conjunction with high quality fast charge (3-6C) capable LiPolys will reduce the number of batteries you need, make LiPoly management much simpler and greatly increase your flying time and enjoyment.
High C rate charging:
I have charged at 3C and higher for close to 4 years now. I have proven to myself that quality LiPolys charged and balanced on quality equipment does not adversely reduce their life. I am currently charging at 5C and replacing over 80% capacity in under 15 minutes on many of my LiPolys.
<Added> I keep reading post that charging at greater than 1C reduces life and that the slower charges are always best. I am not going to do extended cycle testing at 1C charge rates but all the proof I need that 5c charging with high quality LiPolys and equipment is not damaging is right here.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...19&postcount=1 (may have to be logged in)
Break-in:
I start with 1C charges and moderate max. loads.I try and stay under 60% of claimed max. cont. C rating and keep flight times short to insure not exceeding 80% capacity used.
Example A 20C 2200 is rated for 44 amps. cont . but I would stay under 26A (12C) average. Short burst to 35-40 amp. are fine but the practice of charging a new LiPoly and then seeing how much power it has does a new LiPoly no good.
First sign of a LiPoly going south.
Most often the first signs of a LiPoly starting to go down hill will be cells not staying balanced as well,more time being taken in the CV stage of charging / balancing.
If the battery is marginal to begin with you could also notice a decline in power but often this is so gradual that it is not noticed until it gets really bad or you happen to fly a newer / better battery.
Efficient use of charging time:
This example based on charging 3S3300 at 12.5A (3.78C) and while not linear are representative of other rates. Each person will have to conduct their own equalization as chargers/balancers and LiPolys will vary.
Total charge time 18 min. capacity replaced 2896 for an average of 160.9 mAh per min.
During the first 12:30 while rate was holding at 12.5A
2600 mAh for an average of 208 mAh per minute.
Between 12:30 and 14 min . 200 mAh or 133.3 mAh per minute.
First 12:30 or 69.4% of total time 2600 mAh or 89.8% of capacity achieved.
Proper storage :
Approx. 3.85 volts per cell in a cool location. IMO with today's fast charge capable LiPolys and high rate capable chargers there is little sense in leaving LiPolys charged just in case the weather turns nice.
Discharge level:
I have used 80% depth of discharge as my standard for years and it works extremely well. There is mounting evidence that the latest high quality LiPolys can endure deeper discharges much better than prior ones but testing is still limited.
Handling :
LiPolys are fragile. I have been called crazy for suggesting the be handled like an unboiled egg or fine china. Every crease,bing,bump,etc. creates a pressure point which leads to accelerated salt crystals growth.
Cheap chargers :
My advise is not to use them. An accurate high quality charger / balancer will extend the life of your LiPolys and in conjunction with high quality fast charge (3-6C) capable LiPolys will reduce the number of batteries you need, make LiPoly management much simpler and greatly increase your flying time and enjoyment.
High C rate charging:
I have charged at 3C and higher for close to 4 years now. I have proven to myself that quality LiPolys charged and balanced on quality equipment does not adversely reduce their life. I am currently charging at 5C and replacing over 80% capacity in under 15 minutes on many of my LiPolys.
<Added> I keep reading post that charging at greater than 1C reduces life and that the slower charges are always best. I am not going to do extended cycle testing at 1C charge rates but all the proof I need that 5c charging with high quality LiPolys and equipment is not damaging is right here.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...19&postcount=1 (may have to be logged in)
Break-in:
I start with 1C charges and moderate max. loads.I try and stay under 60% of claimed max. cont. C rating and keep flight times short to insure not exceeding 80% capacity used.
Example A 20C 2200 is rated for 44 amps. cont . but I would stay under 26A (12C) average. Short burst to 35-40 amp. are fine but the practice of charging a new LiPoly and then seeing how much power it has does a new LiPoly no good.
First sign of a LiPoly going south.
Most often the first signs of a LiPoly starting to go down hill will be cells not staying balanced as well,more time being taken in the CV stage of charging / balancing.
If the battery is marginal to begin with you could also notice a decline in power but often this is so gradual that it is not noticed until it gets really bad or you happen to fly a newer / better battery.
Efficient use of charging time:
This example based on charging 3S3300 at 12.5A (3.78C) and while not linear are representative of other rates. Each person will have to conduct their own equalization as chargers/balancers and LiPolys will vary.
Total charge time 18 min. capacity replaced 2896 for an average of 160.9 mAh per min.
During the first 12:30 while rate was holding at 12.5A
2600 mAh for an average of 208 mAh per minute.
Between 12:30 and 14 min . 200 mAh or 133.3 mAh per minute.
First 12:30 or 69.4% of total time 2600 mAh or 89.8% of capacity achieved.
