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  1. #1

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    need advice, before BOOM!!

    Hi everyone new to this RC thing. Bought a used Super Cub LP. Battery wont hold a charge anymore i think i killed it...or maybe its just old....or maybe that little parkzone charger sucks.

    Either way i invested in a couple new turnigy 2200mah 3s 25c lipos and bought this turnigy accucel charger.

    www.hobbycity.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp

    Well i have no clue what im doing here. I do understand the dangers of lipos. Very intersted in learning about them. But unfortunaltely i dont have much free time to research. So im hoping to interact with the good people of RCuniverse and get a crash course tutorial

    Guess the 2 main questions i have are:

    1. How do i set up the charger before i plug a battery into it?

    2. How far should i discharge a 2200mah lipo?




  2. #2

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    RE: need advice, before BOOM!!

    dah...**** it no time ill wing it


  3. #3
    Swift427's Avatar
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    RE: need advice, before BOOM!!

    Hope this helps ... one problem with buying from HobbyKing (sometimes NO instruction manual included)

    http://www.sparkfun.com/datasheets/P...ual%282%29.pdf
    Never Give Up, Never Slow Down, Never Grow Old, and Never Ever Die Young

  4. #4

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    RE: need advice, before BOOM!!

    well hobbyking lagged on shipping expexted batts saturday...prolly good thing have more time to learn. hopefully people here can help.

    im told i need to test my plane...run it 5 mins and see how far it discharges my 2200.

    anyone know how far i should discharge a 2200??


  5. #5

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    RE: need advice, before BOOM!!

    The minimum for lipos is around 3.5-3.7 volts per cell.
    and airplanes were in

  6. #6

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    RE: need advice, before BOOM!!

    ah cool man thanks!!!
    simple post like that means a lot.
    i know i have to read and learn this stuff on my own just no time these days.

    any other lipo tips im all ears

    does it hurt a lipo if you dont discharge enough before throwing on the charger?


  7. #7
    Glacier Girl's Avatar
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    RE: need advice, before BOOM!!

    Umm, don't run the plane for 5 minutes on the ground. They mean fly it for 5 minutes.

    Running it that long on the ground is more then likely to let the "magic smoke" escape as the components don't have any cooling airflow.[X(]
    Missing Man Formation, Looking heavenward you can't help but shed a tear, mournful, lonesome, a hole that screams out at you.

  8. #8
    Swift427's Avatar
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    RE: need advice, before BOOM!!

    GG,

    Did you ever try salvaging any good cells from your experiment a few years ago and makeup a pack of reasonably matched cells? Still think the nearest commonality in the amount of voltage bounce back recovery was perhaps the best indicator of which were the best surviving cells.

    It was a worthwhile experiment. Hope your learning continued onward with at least one useable pack that's still energetic to this day.
    Never Give Up, Never Slow Down, Never Grow Old, and Never Ever Die Young

  9. #9

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    RE: need advice, before BOOM!!

    Yeah for sure gonna fly it glacier girl not just rev the sucker on the ground.

    Found the online manual but it wasnt much help.

    Did youtube search for Accucell 8 but nothing.

    I just wanna fly darnit!! 3 big questions now are

    1. Does the charger have a individual cell voltage check mode? I read its bad to put a close to fully charged batt on the charger. I have no idea what the current voltage is. Its a turnigy 2200 shipped from hobby king usa warehouse.

    2. The manual was hard to understand. Whats the sequence of hooking up batt to charger and charger to 12v source?

    3. Do i ever want to use the charging leads or always hook up with the little white cell balance port?

    Thanks for any help

  10. #10

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    RE: need advice, before BOOM!!

    1 Probably not , but you can set current to minimum to read all cells. Your pack "should" be close to 3.8 / cell.
    2 Hook input up first then batt.
    3 Always use the charge lead (banana output) the balance tap is optional.


    ps you can put a lipo on charge at any state of charge.

    and airplanes were in

  11. #11

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    RE: need advice, before BOOM!!

    Dude you rule thank you thank you!!

    So for #1 its ok to set a minimum voltage charge....see what the cells read...then just unplug the battery? Wont hurt it if i dont complete the charge?

    The little parkzone charger that came with the plane only had a balance port.

    What is the situation when i would not want to use the charge lead and balance tap?

  12. #12
    Swift427's Avatar
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    RE: need advice, before BOOM!!

    Let's back up to your first post (used HZ Super Cub LP). The Super Cub LP still comes with the brushed 480, but is now powered with a 3S 11.1v LiPo. The only difference in the RX/ESC between the discontinued Super Cub and the Super Cub LP may be: Whether or not that little jumper is across two of the pins on the ESC OR not evident which determines the LVC when using either the previous 8.4v NiMH battery w/jumper or no jumper on the RX/ESC with a 3S 11.1v LiPo like the Super Cub LP. Even with that little jumper removed on the earlier Super Cub for 3S 11.1v retrofit the LVC on my Super Cub's RX/ESC is slightly below the recommended 9.0v LVC. This means that if you have a LiPo with a poor cell with the three cell voltages at LowVoltageCutoff the three cell voltages of a not-so-balanced 3S LiPo could be say ... 2.65v, 3.10v, and 3.00v = 8.75v ... which translates to punishing your LiPo.

    What is even WORSE is if you still see a little jumper across two of the ESC pins ... then the LVC is set for the lower voltage cutoff of a 8.4v NiMH battery ... OUCH! when using a 3S 11.1v LiPo. Always best to land any plane just before LVC no matter what setup, even if it's ESCs LVC is at 9.0v and the 3S 11.1v LiPo has perfectly matched cells. An experienced pilot can tell when the throttle power is under 10v getting close to 9.6v with a 3S 11.1v LiPo.

    Any way you need to get one of those little LiPo cell checkers from CSRC, E-flite, etc so you can keep tabs on the overall condition of your 3S LiPo by seeing how much mismatch between cell voltages ... say a couple minutes after LVC discharge, after 15 minutes of resting bounce back cell voltage recovery and during recharge (say at 11.8v and full recharge of 12.0v-to-12.6v). For those with LiPo balancers that don't have individual cell readouts (like RTF LiPo balancers you definitely need to invest in a LiPo cell checker). That is the best way to get a pulse on the condition of your 3-cell LiPo batteries.
    Never Give Up, Never Slow Down, Never Grow Old, and Never Ever Die Young

  13. #13

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    RE: need advice, before BOOM!!


    ORIGINAL: wopachop

    Dude you rule thank you thank you!!

    So for #1 its ok to set a minimum voltage charge....see what the cells read...then just unplug the battery? Wont hurt it if i dont complete the charge?

    The little parkzone charger that came with the plane only had a balance port.

    What is the situation when i would not want to use the charge lead and balance tap?
    I think you mean minimum current , but yes. You can start the charge with the lowest current setting and then hit stop as soon as you figure out how to read the individual cell's voltages.

    You need the main lead for any/all charges. The balance wire is used only for balance charges and monitoring cell voltages (even with non-balance charge) The balance tap isn't require for NI type packs or non-balance LI type charges.

    and airplanes were in

  14. #14
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    RE: need advice, before BOOM!!

    guver ~ is this confusing
    You need the main lead[discharge lead] for any/all charges.The balance wire is used only for balance charges and monitoring cell voltages (even with non-balance charge). The balance tap isn't require for NI type packs or non-balance LI type charges.
    His RTF Super Cub LP comes with a 3S DC balance charger via LiPo battery balance connector. See photos of RTF DC balance charger and AC power adaptor.
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    Never Give Up, Never Slow Down, Never Grow Old, and Never Ever Die Young

  15. #15

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    RE: need advice, before BOOM!!

    Wow gonna need to read that a few times to absorb Swift. Yes i have a USED SC lp but it came with a parkzone 2-3 cell balance charger and a 2200mah battery. Not the chargers you posted. The charger i got kept popping the truck fuse, and the battery only flew for 4 mins before the low voltage beep.

    So i bought a Turnigy Accucell 8 charger and 2200 mah batteries. Posted link in first post.

    Still a little confused as to the safe limit i want to discharge a 2200mah 25c lipo. Also confused as to when i want to use the balance port and when i dont. Is there a drawback to balancing cells? I dont care about speed of charge

    Thanks for helping guys i have a brand new charger just sitting here....sucks

  16. #16
    Swift427's Avatar
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    RE: need advice, before BOOM!!

    Let’s walk our way through this …

    1. First off of all the 3 channel parkflyer planes on the market (and there’s a ton) you couldn’t have picked a better beginner plane for getting started. CONGRATULATIONS!

    2. The reason for discussing the RX/ESC jumper pin was because you never really know what you’re getting over ebay. For example the 2-3 cell ParkZone charger w/2200mAh LiPo was never sold with a HobbyZone Super Cub LP RTF, but rather a plane like ParkZone’s Stryker 27C RTF. Even so it should be a better deal in that it can also be used to charge a 2S LiPo.

    3. Your Super Cub could be the previous SC outfitted with the same RX/ESC, but with the little pin jumper still on for the LVC 8.4v NiMH battery. However, I assume the seller at least had the courtesy to remove the little jumper from the ESC pins(if in fact it’s an older SC).

    4. All you really needed to do was purchase the HBZ1004 AC Adaptor for $19(photo 2 below), but having the Accucel is even better.

    5. Manual - http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...CEL_manual.pdf

    6. Page 4 shows a picture of how you hook up(in your case) the larger blue EC3 female connector from your LiPo to the matching gold EC3 male connector patch cord furnished with your Turnigy Accucel 8 Charger. Then you also connect the white 4-pin balancing connector from your LiPo into the Accucel 4-pin balancing port.

    7. You should have also bought HK’s 12V 5A AC Power supply for $8.95(photo 3 below) at the same time. http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...idProduct=6256

    8. The 2200mAh LiPo won’t fit in your Super Cub. It’s more capacity then you really need so don’t go trying to enlarge the battery compartment to accept the PZ 2200 LiPo. Unless the seller already made the modification. If that is the case then the RX/ESC should be set for the correct LVC for a 3S 11.1v LiPo. Any extra thrust from your 2200mAh LiPo could overheat the brushed 480 motor ... plus the increased flying weight from the heavier 2200 battery.

    9. You basically have three choices of LiPo batteries with a blue EC3 connector(see pics below) unless your SC’s battery compartment has been enlarged to accept the longer 2200 LiPo.

    10. I would try contacting the ebay seller and ask if the RX/ESC may by chance still have the little jumper in place for use with the previous SC 8.4V NiMH battery. Tell the person that the 2200 LiPo and 2-3 Cell charger look to be from a PZ Stryker 27C RTF, NOT a HZ Super Cub LP. Tell the seller if he isn’t upfront with you about used as is condition of charger, LiPo, and ESC that you may decide to report him to ebay. On closer examination it looks like 2200 has been replaced with 2250 (enlarge next to last photo).
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    Never Give Up, Never Slow Down, Never Grow Old, and Never Ever Die Young

  17. #17

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    RE: need advice, before BOOM!!

    sorry, all my posts have been about the accucel 8.
    and airplanes were in

  18. #18

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    RE: need advice, before BOOM!!


    ORIGINAL: wopachop

    Wow gonna need to read that a few times to absorb Swift. Yes i have a USED SC lp but it came with a parkzone 2-3 cell balance charger and a 2200mah battery. Not the chargers you posted. The charger i got kept popping the truck fuse, and the battery only flew for 4 mins before the low voltage beep.

    So i bought a Turnigy Accucell 8 charger and 2200 mah batteries. Posted link in first post.

    Still a little confused as to the safe limit i want to discharge a 2200mah 25c lipo. Also confused as to when i want to use the balance port and when i dont. Is there a drawback to balancing cells? I dont care about speed of charge

    Thanks for helping guys i have a brand new charger just sitting here....sucks
    The lowest resting voltage of any lipo should be 3.5=3.7 volts / cell. Some user say 3 volts , but there's really no useable capacity lower than 3.5 volts. Most users will insist on balancing every charge and there is nothing wrong with that. I am the minority and balance on an "as needed" basis.

    and airplanes were in

  19. #19
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    RE: need advice, before BOOM!!

    Most users will insist on balancing every charge and there is nothing wrong with that. I am the minority and balance on an "as needed" basis
    .
    In wopachop's case (relative beginner with Accucell 8) would it make sense to just charge via the ECS discharge connector when the charger has the balancing port, and page 4 of the instruction manual recommends hooking up both the EC3 connection and the white 4-pin balancing port connection ... not just the EC3 connection. Are you really suggesting that with the Accucell 8, he should only hookup the EC3 connections for the majority of his LiPo charges ... assuming his LiPo(s) are AOK, and only plug-in balancing connector every 5-10 charge/discharge cycles. It sounds like his used ebay 2200 has seen better days and he may not be able to balance it even with an expensive balancer (with TLC telepathy )

    I certainly agree with you, if one has a good AC/DC charger like the Vision Peak Ultra that charges only through the larger connector and doesn't have a balancing port connection ... although even then, if you have one of those little stand alone Astro Blinky balancers you probably don't need to connect it to the LiPo's smaller white balancing connector every time you charge a good LiPo. However, this procedure possibly applies more to: An electric pilot that has mastered the LiPo learning curve, doesn't abuse/misuse his quality LiPos, and uses a 3S LVC of 9.6 volts or lands before reaching a LVC of 9.0 volts.
    ______________

    In that wopachop's SC LP has the EC3 connector in the battery compartment I doubt the plane is an older version of the SC that originally had a Tamiya connector for a 8.4v NiMH. I doubt the seller would have gone to the trouble to replace a Tamiya with an EC3 if it were by chance the previous version of the Super Cub. What puzzles me is why he included a PZ 2200 LiPo. The earlier part # of the PZ 2200 was PKZ1030; however, now the part # of the PZ 2200 is PKZ1029 and the PZ 2250 is PKZ1030. If wopachop's 2200's part# is PKZ1030 than it may be close to 3 years old. I doubt the seller ever flew wopachop's SC with the larger 2200, but if he did with the idea of turning the SC in a hotliner then the 480 brushed motor may be questionable.
    Never Give Up, Never Slow Down, Never Grow Old, and Never Ever Die Young

  20. #20

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    RE: need advice, before BOOM!!

    Thanks for helping guys!!!! I dont have time to read it all.....time for work.

    But thanks so much i cant wait to absorb it all and learn.

    Turns out my Turnigy batts have xt60 connectors. I didnt realize the local hobby shop does not carry these. The ESC of my super cub is an ec3 connector.

    I have soldered a few times....need to invest in a decent tool.

    Should i just switch my batteries and ESC to deans connectors? Not really sure what those are but i guess its just a common connector.

    Does anyone have a good link to teach me the proper ways to solder???

    Im decent working with copper plumping pipe but electronics are so small and i dont want to overheat anything. Any advice would be great.

    Than ks again guys i need to get out the door for work

  21. #21
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    RE: need advice, before BOOM!!

    Still don’t know why or how you’re even considering cramming your Turnigy 2200 in SC LP battery bay. Page 5 of SC LP manual says …
    The battery cavity has been designed to be a snug fit for the *battery to prevent the battery from shifting in flight.
    Will use HZ Super Cub LP pack thickness as H, INSTEAD of HobbyKing H, which refers to Turnigy pack thickness as W. Because the LiPo pack lays on it’s side in SC battery bay it’s LxHxW HZ/PZ dimensions shown below are in same axis relation to the Length, Height and Width of your Super Cub. So, looking at the two choices(stock & upgrade) it would appear that the safe dimensions (larger of stock/upgrade) for SCs battery bay are: 2.84” x 0.91” x 1.46” (L x H x W); the thicker E-flite at 1.05” may be too tight in H=height at 1.05" to fit comfortably, and the HK Turnigy at 0.95" with XT60 connector and 0.91" of HZ Turnigy upgrade with EC3 connector may actually be same; especially when considering the 0.91" upgrade has 50mAh more capacity rating than the 0.95" HK Turnigy. HOWEVER, one thing to remember is that if a pack is misused/abused the one dimension that wants to sometimes change(increase) is the H pack's thickness.

    Your HK Turnigy 2200 is 4.14 x 0.95 x 1.30in (105 x 24 x 33mm). How will you squeeze it into your Super Cub?
    *Stock SC LP = ParkZone 1300 15C 16GA stock = 2.76 x 0.83 x 1.46 in (70 x 21 x 37mm) L x H(thickness) x W

    Upgrade SC LP = Turnigy 1350 20C 16GA = 2.84 x 0.91 x 1.38in (72 x 23 x 35 mm) L x H(pack thickness) x W

    E-flite, 1250 20C 13GA = 2.60 x 1.05 x 1.35in (66 x 27 x 34mm) L x H(pack thickness) x W

    HK Turnigy, 1300 25C = 2.80 x 0.95 x 1.34in (71 x 24 x 34mm) L x H(pack thickness) x W

    (1) You could buy a Female XT60 To Male EC3 Connector/Adapter via ebay (see photo below).
    (2) Then buy one of two HZ LiPo choices w/EC3 female connector for charging with XT60 charge cord.
    (3) Or instead of 1. make up another charging cord = banana plug –to–Male EC3 when you buy LiPo w/EC3
    (4) Suggest you buy either stock(1300) or upgrade(1350) 3S with EC3 connector.
    (5) OR replace male EC3 in battery bay coming from ESC with male XT60.

    Any way, you may find the following of some interest, if you plan on replacing the SCs ESC EC3 male connector with a XT60 male connector and buying a couple HK Turnigy 1300 25C with XT60 female connector instead of stock PZ 1300 or T 1350 upgrade. HOWEVER, I remind you that you don't know the condition of the 480 brushed motor ... plus it's just a relatively inexpensive beginner plane so use common sense when retrofitting.

    …following is copied from a XT60 post by TJinGuy at runryder 1.25.2010
    Like many I am fed up with Deans. They are annoying on so many levels and although I can't say I have ever had a performance problem with them, there are plenty of failure reports on the forums. Anyhow I am always keeping an eye out for other options. Some folks love the EC3 connectors and as nice as they are, they are very expensive, hard to reuse and very hard to connect/disconnect. Then I came across a new option, the XT60 connector. They looked small enough and I liked the design so I grabbed a 10 pack and am giving them a go in place of the Deans I use.

    First impressions: Wow these things feel great! They fit together very nicely and feel very secure. They require less force than either a Deans or a EC3 but feel very secure. Size wise they are just a little bigger than Deans when connected. The best part is the design is similar to a EC3 where no metal is exposed past the housing, ever! There is even a recess for the heat shrink to fit into in order to ensure no metal is exposed on the back side.

    Lets just say they make a very good first impression

    Soldering: Because of the design they are very easy to solder, much easier than Deans. I have used both 12ga and 16ga so far and both fit will inside the solder cups. Over all it is a good design but not perfect
    .
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    Never Give Up, Never Slow Down, Never Grow Old, and Never Ever Die Young

  22. #22
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    RE: need advice, before BOOM!!

    Great info Swift! Better then I could have done.

    After all that I'd really be questioning the Ebay bird. Something just doesn't sound right.
    Hate to see a newbie get taken.


    Anyhow Swift, as for your question, NOPE NADA. Not one single cell that I'd trust in a plane out of those Align packs. The three best cells out of the packs I tested didn't even hold up as a TX pack. They ballooned up so badly I had to pry em out of the tx. All have gone to that big lipo home in the sky. Lesson learned on them.
    Missing Man Formation, Looking heavenward you can't help but shed a tear, mournful, lonesome, a hole that screams out at you.

  23. #23

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    RE: need advice, before BOOM!!


    ORIGINAL: Swift427

    8. The 2200mAh LiPo won’t fit in your Super Cub. It’s more capacity then you really need so don’t go trying to enlarge the battery compartment to accept the PZ 2200 LiPo. Unless the seller already made the modification. If that is the case then the RX/ESC should be set for the correct LVC for a 3S 11.1v LiPo. Any extra thrust from your 2200mAh LiPo could overheat the brushed 480 motor ... plus the increased flying weight from the heavier 2200 battery.
    Wow man you really took the time thank you so much. Im just using the cheap little 3 channel radio that came with the plane. Am i able to set the Low VoltageCuttoff somehow? Im just barely understanding that.

    The previous owner has been super cool. Yes indeed he flew the heck outta the plane. The battery box had been modified. I modified it even more its been pretty fun trying to figure out why my CG was all wacky. Turns out the plane was painted and wrapped in packaging tape and consequently was super tail heavy.

    The motors are only ten bucks so its cool if i smoke um. I just threw a brand new one in after i crashed head first into a brick wall ahahhaha!!! The previous owner told me the motor will get tired running the big battery and 10/8 prop but he felt the fun outweighed the cost.

    After reading that deans plug link i might order up some xt60 connectors from hobby king. All i need to do is switch my ESC and im good to go. Thinking about "borrowing" an xt60 from the wires that came with my charger.

    Think i should leave the wires soldered to the connector.....but cut and strip the wires and just solder those together? I dont have a desolder tool. Pretty sure the xt60 connectors are shipped outta china and will take few weeks.


  24. #24

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    RE: need advice, before BOOM!!

    ah shucks. only male connector is the charge lead.



  25. #25

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    RE: need advice, before BOOM!!

    Oh yeah got some xt60 connectors coming 2 day shipping from Amain


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